Incubation temps and coloration of Tremper albinos

[BigDan]

Here is what incubation temps do with the Tremper strain albinos.

Check it out.

Incubated at 82 degrees F.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/511/1112tremper_jungle_82.jpg


Here is the clutchmate of the one above that was incubated at 90 degrees F



http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/511/1112tremper_jungle_baby.jpg


Here is another that just hatched last night incubated for 3 weeks at 80 to fix the sex as female and then incubated at 90 for another 3 weeks to remove melanin.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/511/1112tremper_jungle_90_baby.jpg

The pic is a little blurry but you get the idea they will squint and keep their eyes closed in the light. This is because their eyes are so red and lacking melanin that it probably bothers them to have them open in even in low light levels.

This is the way Mr. Tremper does it. Pretty neat stuff.

Dan

[scott hough]

Wow, what a difference!

Have you read the other threads relating to the Tremper method of incubating?
http://ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17109

We were thinking of giving it a try, but this scared us out of it.


leah

[reptilez]

I read something like this before at leopardgecko.com. its very interesting indeed:D

[BigDan]

If you produce enough leos you are bound to get some percentage of deformed hatchlings.

I tried this incubation technique during the last part of the 2002 season and again for a portion of my eggs this season.

My hatch rates have been dead on the same and I have had only 2 hatchlings out of approx 600 so far this year that have had any sort of deformity. I would consider this normal and just part of mother nature. They do not all develop perfectly.

I also feel that if you take a look at the history of breeding groups that consistantly produce deformed hatchlings they tend to be very closely related and these deformities or full term dead hatchlings are the effects of inbreeding. Years of inbreeding have huge affects on not only fertility/fecundity but the health of the hatchling. Highly inbred hatchlings may have a tough time getting out of the egg.

Also temp spikes can be a significant cause in deformities.Last year I had one of my hovas spike up to 93 for a few hours and produced 2 hatchlings without tails. Hovabators tend to fluctuate a a few degrees here or there and if you have it set at 90 and it goes up to 92 which they do quite a bit then there lies your problem. I have actually built my own incubators using helix controls thermostats and have little or no temp fluctuation in my incubators. You set it at 88 it stays at 88 this can not be said of hovabators.

I think one deformed hatchling out of 200 is nothing to worry about it just happens.

For all I know there may be something wrong in the incubation technique but I look at it in a scientific way. I think even if you incubate at 85 and produce a 1000 leos a handful will have deformities no matter what. You can do everything perfectly and the hatchling dies before it pips, did you do something wrong or did mother nature screw up. If a certain deformity appears over and over again then you need to look at your breeding groups and maybe try to single out the parents of the deformed hatchlings and take them out of your breeding program or re-evaluate your incubation techniques.

This incubation technique is not something totally new and there has been some scientific studies done on it. If you look at the back of the leopard gecko manual it goes into the effects of incubation temp and melanin production. When was the book written 5 or 6 or more years ago.

Just my 2 cents.

Dan

[JeffT]

Just wondering, what do you guys do with your deformed ones? Do you continue to sell them?? What?

[SnowSnake]

If you incubate 3 weeks at 80°F and then switch at 90°F how long will it take the eggs to hatch?

Next year I will breed my blizzard male with my normal female and a tangerine albino female. If I use that technique of incubation, will the babies from the blizzard X tang albino be less dark and have more orange? I know they will be hets for blazing blizzard.

If I have 2 double hets for blazing blizzard that are orange, can I get a orangish blazing blizzard?

Thanks!
SnowSnake

P.S. Whats going on with your web site Dan? It doesn't work, why?

[Samba]

Well... I basically keep mum about topics as 'controversial' as this, but I do have some things to add. Leos born with deformities, while undesirable, is going to be something that happens to anyone who breeds geckos, (or any animal species) on a regular basis. It is important to determine fault, so the situation can be corrected as needed. I also wanted to bring up topics on genetic defects (some argue these are extremely rare and even non-existant in reptiles... but I've seen it), and also of the pros and cons of the Tremper method. It seems as if people are really successful or unsucessful.
I do believe, however, that when the method, (which is yet to be a proven theory...(?) is done correctly it yields particularly attractive animals. Having not tried this before, I'd be cautious in approaching it. I'll leave the meddling to the experts. =)

[Alicewave]

I would agree with Samba on everything. I tend to think more of the deformities are related to other factors, not necessarily the tremper method. Inbreeding, nutrition of the feeders to both mom and dad, amount of handling of the eggs (where Gimley's problem lies I think), temp spikes, etc. I never tried it but I think the key with the Tremper method is to gradually increase the temp over the course of at least a week. I think increasing the temp too quickly could definitely cause problems (similar to the temperature spike).

[BigDan]

Jeff T If the hatchling is slightly deformed and it can have a good life without suffering. For instance the geckos with a kinked tail or something then I have usually given them away to freinds or their kids who just want a pet and agree not to breed him or her.

If the hatchling is severly deformed and will not be able to function properly then the best thing to do in my opinion is to humanely put it down.

Snow

If you incubate in this manner you should get brighter hatchlings since you are using a tangerine based albino. What they turn out to look like well basically produce some and you will find out.. You never know when you might pop out something totally different.

My website is still being worked on, both I and Jeff ******** have been busy so we are doing a little at a time. It will be done very soon I hope. LOL If you are interested in some leos let me know what type and I can snap a few pics of the ones I have available in that color variety.

Dan

[JeffT]

Yeah thats what I was thinking. If it is too eformed then save it from a crappy life and put it down.