Bone Disease?

[Pookie]

About a month ago, my 5 month old Cham was acting a bit odd. He seemed weak and was wondering along the bottom of the cage more. The breeder i got him from said it might be metabolic bone disease..or something like that. So i increased the calcium in his diet and hot a mercury vapor light. He seems to be doing a lot better and he's climbing the branches now. Do you think i did everything that i should or is there more i should be doing?

[Collide]

IF your seeing an improvmint in behavior and health keep it up there are more things you might do but most of those things include vets and I hate those people. It is very hard to find one who knows what they are talking about. Any way keep up the calcium Veilds are a really hardy species.

[Zoe]

If he has MBD, he should definitely be getting calcium injections. Did he have access to UVA/B light before? How much calcium was he getting?

Zoe

[Trace]

Without seeing the chameleon in question, it's hard for me to give a proper answer for you. Weakness in chameleons can mean a lot of things, although MBD does come to mind first. Did he have muscle tremors or swelling of the limbs when he was younger?

What kind of mercury vapor light are you using? There are some owners now that are questioning whether or not there is enough UV being produced by those bulbs. I'm using the "PowerSun" bulbs on some of my chameleon cages and I think they are wonderful. I think it's some of the cheaper M/V bulbs that are causing the concern.

If it was MBD, it was correct of the breeder to tell you to increase the amount of calcium in his diet, but it is more effective to have had calcium injections done at the time.

What kind of chameleon do you have? Once I know this, I can point you in the direction of some good care sheets and you can then double check to make sure your husbandry is correct for your little guy.

Cheers!

Trace

[Pookie]

It's a veiled cham. And last month when i was having this problem he joints were a bit swollen and he was extra shakey. I've put the "Capture the sun" mercury vapor bulb in from the big apple herp website. And i gutload my crickets with the flukers cricket quencher along with using the liquid calcium drops on the meal worms. I only know of one good vet in my area. In Massachusetts it's illegal to sell chams so i'm not sure if he would have a strong knowledge about them as far as the calcium injections go. Thanks for your help everyone!

[Trace]

That's great! He sounds like he's on the road to recovery. :D It does sound like MBD and you caught the disease in it's early stages and were able to bring him around. It does take a long time for chameleons to heal from that though, so be patient.

Personally I wouldn't use the cricket quencher for proper gutloading of bugs because it's filled with nasty chemicals. I use a more natural form of gutload, like carrots, collard greens, fish food, oatmeal, and nutritous "real" foods along those lines for my bugs. Click here (http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/gutload.html) for a few really good gutload recipes.

I also don't find mealworms to be that nutritious either. They have a thick exoskeleton that sometimes is hard for chameleons to digest. I do use superworms as part of my feeding regime here but they aren't the primary food source. You can also gutload the worms with the above ideas as well! Do you have access to silkworms in your area? I think they are better for chameleons.

Click here (http://www.adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/chcalyptratus.html) for a good caresheet on Veiled Chameleons.

Again it sounds like he's getting better. Keep up the good work and keep me posted on his progress.

Cheers!

Trace

[Pookie]

Thanks Trace! I think the superworms are a bit too big for my little guy...he's only about 4/5 months old. But i'll def. take your advice on the gutloading w/ natural foods. I'll try to capture a picture of him tonight and post it so you can tell me what you think! You seem like you're very knowledgeable on the subject which is excellent! :) Very helpful!

[Trace]

You're right! Superworms are a bit big for your chameleon at this point! You did mention that he is only about 5 months old, I guess I'm just used to my big fellows around here. My bad. Do use the mealies for him, as a varied diet is good for any chameleons.

PLEASE! I would love to see a pic of your little guy. They are so cute when they are that small.

Cheers!

Trace

[Pookie]

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/2471borris_6_months-med.jpg


How do you think he looks? He's not too pleased about being brought out of his home but i figured it was for his own good! :)

[Trace]

LOL! No, he doesn't look happy! But when are Veiled's ever happy?

My first question though... are you sure you have a boy? The casque looks like a female, but again he's only 5 months old so that will grow taller.

Otherwise he looks pretty good! Nice bulgey eyes. Limbs look straight. No weird bumps or anything. He may be a bit on the skinny side, but he might have just been acting that way because you were holding him. Some of mine will take on a skinny appearance when they are held, or when they see something that scares them. I also probably overfeed my chameleons anyways.

Keep up the good work with him! Mist him like crazy every day. Make sure you dust all of his bugs with a good calcium/vitamin supplement daily while he's growing. You can drop the dustings down to a few times a week as he gets bigger and then dust once a week when he's an adult. I've given you some good gutload recipes so the bugs will be healthy when you feed them.

It looks like you've got a reptarium there... those are nice and lightweight. Put that outside in the shade on warm days and he'll love you for it. Nothing better than real sunlight and UV for proper chameleon health.

Sorry it's taken me sssoo long to reply. If you have any other questions, don't be shy!

Cheers!

Trace

[Charm_Paradise]

Hi-

I would agree with what Trac had to say. Have you used silkworms in his/her diet? They are the best staple food item you can feed, check out www.mulberryfarms.com and www.ebay.com

[Collide]

If it is a male he will have bumps on the back of his back feet like dew claws, I thought it was a female when i first saw it too. Cutie though. And he looks happy compaired to my males lol.

[geckoguy157]

id have to say thats a female to look on its back feet like collide said another reason it looks female is because by then a male should have developed vertical bands on his side which are usualy white and the head makes me think its a female to a male should have a bigger thing on the top by 5 months so id say female but look on the back of its feet to be sure

[Trace]

LOL! Seems I've got everybody curious as to whether your chameleon is a male or not!

Click here (http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/glossary/tarsalspur.html) for a some sexing pics of the Veiled chameleon. The males have the tarsal spur on their back feet and the females do not.

How is your little guy (or gal) doing?

Trace

[Pookie]

Thanks everyone! He's doing much better and eating like a pig! :) I'll go home tonight and check on his back feet! I told the breeder i wanted a male so he picked one out for me but they were all about 3 months old at the time so i'm sure it was tough to really tell. Oh well, i'll love her/him either way! But now i need a new name for it if it turns out to be femal...borris won't work anymore! ....any suggestions? I

[Trace]

Hi Pookie! :D

You can sex a Veiled Chameleon the minute they are born by the presence (or non-presence) of that tarsal spur. In another words, it's not something the males grow into. So if you asked the breeder for a male, you probably got a male! Although I am still curious as to his sex!

Borris is an awesome name for a chameleon! Even if he turns out to be a girl. It's not like they come when you call them anyways. LOL!

Again, keep up the good work with him, I'm glad he's eating well for you! :thumbsup:

Trace

[dank7oo]

are superworms really that nutricious????
*runs to pet store to buy a dozen*
maybe he will like em ... i know he is scared of silkworms now ... being a true veiled, he tried to down 3 inone mouthful .. needless to say it went down the wrong way

[Pookie]

Ok so what if it IS a female? I've heard a lot of bad things with them and having to lay eggs...which is why i asked the guy for a male! Ugh! But anyway, how do you tell when they need to lay them? I know i need to place her in a bucket of moist sand or dirt but i'm just unsure of when this needs to happen. I know that when they stop eating that's an indication but do they get bigger too? Now i'm all confused...i was way better off thinking it was a boy! ;)

[Trace]

I'm sure you've got a male, so there is no point in worrying until you get home tonight to check! Some of his patterns do look male to me.

But anyway, how do you tell when they need to lay them?

She will start to spend more time at the bottom of her enclosure looking around, she will start digging at the sides of the cage as well. When you see this, it's time to put her into the egg laying bucket.

I know that when they stop eating that's an indication but do they get bigger too?

Yep, she will stop eating a few days beforehand and she will be HUGE! She'll look like a baseball with legs!

Here is a pic of my egg-laying bucket. It's a 77L Rubbermaid garbage pail filled about 1/3 of the way with dirt. I put the plant in there because sometimes the females like to lay eggs in the roots of plants. It also gives her some privacy. The stick is there for her to rest on.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/405119-1961-med.jpg

Now, you can delay or even prevent the females from laying eggs! Right now you are giving her as many bugs as she can eat during a day, and that's great. Once she hits about 6 months of age, you can drastically cut back the amount of bugs she gets and this slows the egg production rate, yet doesn't harm the general health of female chameleons. If you do have a female and you don't want the egg laying hassle start giving her like 6 bugs every other day once she hits about 6 months of age.

I know I've probably confused you even more... hopefully some of this information helps in some small way. Let me know whether you've got a male or a female.

Trace

[Pookie]

Thanks for the good info! I went home and checked Borris last night! He has that bump on the back of his feet, i took a picture, i'll post it when i get home! Then you can tell me, yet again, what you think! :) hehe!

[Trace]

Then you can tell me, yet again, what you think!

LOL! I think I've created more problems for you than I've actually solved! Maybe I should just stay off this thread for the time being! :confused: Poor Borris is going to grow up with some kind of identity crisis because his sex was questioned at such a tender age. LOL!

From your description, he sounds like a boy but I'm eagerly awaiting the pic tonight...

Trace

[dank7oo]

you use the bucket method :)
i wish i could ... but again, my parents rather me not, and takre the east way out :[
oh well, just means i gotta clean out the entire cage once a month - LOLOLOLOLOL

[dank7oo]

i use onlt fake plants anyways, so if she wants to bury near the roots, she will hit the concrete bases :S

[Pookie]

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/2471male_borris-med.jpg


Ok so it's a little blurry but i think you can see the bump :) And this was def. a learning experience! hehe!

[Trace]

Yeppers! That's a boy! And what a boy!

He's looks nice and chubby in that pic too. He's got a good, fat tail base and some of the worst "stink eye" I've ever seen! He's not impressed with getting his picture taken is he? LOL!

Good luck with Borris! Sorry to put you through so many traumas the last few days.

Trace

[offspring]

i had the same prob with the exact same age also i had to give him twice as much calcium and calcium shot but somthing u might wanna do is wen they have MBD or had bring him to a vet and get his legs casted and straightend because wen they have MBD there bones weaken and begin to twist and form a differant way so wen they get better they cant climb as well as they used to so get his legs casted so they wil straighten and allow him to climb freely

[Trace]

Offspring: WHAT????? Ummmm.... did your vet actually put casts on your chameleon when he had MBD? I'm quite surprised at that...

Yes, you are right when you say that chameleons with severe MBD will have twisted limbs, but putting the legs in a cast will not straighten them.

Trace