Meal size(Bearded dragons)

[reptilez]

How many meal worms do you think an adult female bearded dragon could eat in one serving. If it matters, she's 3yrs old (May be producing eggs), and about 18inches in length.
-Reptilez

[Bearded AL]

I know my little girl who is like 10 inches in the body can pound back a dozen supers no problem and is still looking for more and that is after she has her veggies in the morning so reg mealies would be alot more hope it helps AL

[eyespy]

I wouldn't let her eat all the mealies she can take, their eyes are often bigger than their stomachs where mealies are concerned and they will often regurgitate or get impacted from too many at once. I'm very cautious and don't feed mealies at all but 5 at a time with no other chitin-containing foods offered at that time are probably safe.

[eyespy]

Oh, and you want to really gutload and dust those mealies before feeding to a possibly gravid female, mealies are very high in phosphorus and can really throw off the calcium balance.

[reptilez]

how would you gutload maelies??

[Dragon_Slave]

You feed them oatmeal, the instant kind is best... like from Quaker. 24 hours just letting them eat, they should be in some sort of oatmeal anywayz.

[eyespy]

You need more than that to offset the phosphorus, oatmeal isn't all that nutritious on its own. Plain instant oatmeal has a calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1.2:1, not nearly enough to offset a non-gutloaded mealworm's ratio of 1:9.

Feed them calcium rich greens like you do your beardie, and some powdered calcium supplement for at least 2 days prior to feeding them to the beardies. You can also give them a little nonfat powdered dry milk to increase the protein content but don't go overboard as milk is high in phosphorus as well.

[Dragon_Slave]

::smacks forehead:: I forgot to mention feeding them greens also. Where has my mind been lately? Yeesh!

[reptilez]

So when yo say:
calcium rich greens like you do your beardie.
should i make them a dish of just ex: collard greens with oatmeal?

[eyespy]

The more variety the better, so alternate collard, mustards, dandelions, etc. Throwing in some veggie scraps like green beans and snow peas is a good idea to pick up extra vitamins and minerals.

[reptilez]

Ok....Just one more thing,
Dandelions: You dont just pick those out of the ground do you?

[V.hb]

Reptilez.. You can buy them at the grocery store, large stalks pretty cheap.. Ive never once had a problem with feeding mealworms to beardies as long as the heat is high, and i offer a varied diet. I really cant see a beardie becoming impacted by mealworms, ive been feeding lots to my guys, and see absolutly no problems.

[Dragon_Slave]

Mealworms have chitin, and too much chitin will block their intestinal tracts. Although you may feed mealworms to your dragons, it is NOT a good idea and NOT suggested. In fact, right now, you are taking the risk of KILLING your dragon. Just because nothing has happened YET, doesn't mean you're safe. And you say you feed LOTS of mealies? What do you mean by lots? Even feeding 15 per day can and will lead to impaction in the long run. If you feed more than 15 per day, you are definitely taking a HUGE risk. If you feed mealworms, and lots of them to your beardies... do all other dragon owners a favor and DON'T suggest doing what you are doing... because then, you are taking a risk of killing their dragon/s. I don't want to sound harsh, but that's reality. Please take my advice, stop feeding mealworms, unless it's only 2 a day for a dragon OVER 12 inches in length.... there are other options.

[V.hb]

Let me answer this. I've been working with beardies for a long time.. Never once has there been any problems with mealworms. By lots, OF COURSE i dont mean 15 a day, did you not see where i said "VARIED" diet? This site is a big complaint fest now, if someone doesnt do something the way another feels they should they become all rude and defensive!

I Suppose i wont suggest my beardies and other agamids diet to other owners even though my beardies are in perfect health, never had any problems and breed regularly. I Suppose thats a sign of bad health?

I have never once read or heard any problems with mealworms used in a varied diet. Who the heck would feed 15 mealworms for a beardie daily anyways? I dont see where you got that estimate from. I always have thousands of mealworms and crickets on hand for my large collection of herps. Each of them is fed a varied diet, and there is nothing wrong with mealworms in that "varied" diet.

I guess il go back to "killing" my beardies now.

[V.hb]

By the way, I also do everything eyespy was suggesting when it comes to gutloading insects. all of my insects eat healthier than I do. Don't take offence to my post "Dragon_Slave" But being told whats healthy and what isnt by someone who has never seen my animals, or their accomplishments is pretty annoying, espeacially when everything ive done with generations of beardies, and other agamids has worked.

[Dragon_Slave]

The only one being rude and defensive is you. When someone says ''lots of mealworms'' without giving a number, it makes me think of a number that would be the equivalent to ''lots''. And by ''varied diet'', what do you mean? How many mealies do you feed by meaning ''lots''. I never meant that you were taking bad care of your animals, I was just warning all others who read that post. When you aren't specific in what you are saying, people assume things.. and whether they assume right or wrong, you cannot know. I believe you that your animals are healthy, and did not mean that you were ''killing'' them.

[Chobdragon]

I have to agree with V.hb. I have heard all the rumors about imaction from to many mealworms r supers, I have never had a problem with my 3 generations of waterdragons, and my wifes Beardies, which have just successfully bred!

[V.hb]

Ha ha i was just trying to explain that a varied diet consisting of mealworms, leafy greens, the odd fruit, crickets etc works well. And ruling out mealworms is rediculous. You jumped into it claiming that I'am killing my animals. Thank you for your concern! But I think what I'am doing is in their best interest.

[Dragon_Slave]

V.hb... I am concerned about everyone's dragons. It is a PROVEN fact that bearded dragons can get impacted from the chitin in mealworms... you can't argue with a proven fact. You CAN however, feed the freshly shed mealworms as a diet basis with no problems to dragons over 12 inches. As far as dragons under 12 inches, mealworms should not be fed, that's the bottom line. Read books, do some online research... you will find that NONE of them EVER recommend feeding mealworms to dragons. Oh, also, not to mention the fact that mealworms can cause hind-leg paralysis in beardies. There's some food for thought.

[V.hb]

Hind leg paralysis usually gets caused by impactions... And its incredibly hard for an animal to become impacted if supplied with :
1. Adequate temperatures (mine are kept quite hot in spots, very hot.)
2. water available at all times (yes my beardies do drink)
3. Varied diet consisting of lots of insects and equal amounts of vegitation.

Yes, of course. To much of ONE thing is not good for anything, however when used properly it's fine. However, iam still highly skeptical of a large quantity of mealworms being used in a diet really causing as many problems as you say if the animal is kept in the right conditions. You have to think to yourself, that most people who keep beardies dont even give them the proper temps and lighting. Of course a hard exoskeleton such as the one found on the worm will cause problems given the animal has no heat to digest his food, or the proper lighting to utilize the vitamins that its fed. This is my arguement, and I feel its quite valid. Thanks for your input.

[Dragon_Slave]

Ok... ''To each their own opinion''. Case Closed... I dont feel like getting into a heated argument and wasting any more time on something so pointless, if you aren't going to believe me, then that's your own decision.

[V.hb]

Just answer this, have you run into problems with your beardie eating mealworms? Or have you even tried? Most people believe everything they read from an individual standpoint. Iam a firm believer that proper husbandry overrules alot of other errors people create. And i've already agreed with you on the point that too many is no good, But am still yet to see any ill results from it.

[Dragon_Slave]

Yes, I have fed mealworms to my dragons.. and no, there were no resulting problems. But I only fed them for about a week, imagine what blockage could happen over a years time. It's like smoking a cigarrete, you don't automatically get cancer from one cigarette.. but if you keep smoking, cancer develops over time. And not all people get cancer, but it can happen.

[V.hb]

you're comparing ciggerettes to mealworms?! haha ok this arguement has really gone sour....... But you proved my point when saying "Not all people get cancer, but it can happen."

[Dragon_Slave]

Why laugh? It may seem silly, but if you think about it, it makes sense. Or maybe it's like in Billy Madison.. eh.. oh well, it makes perfect sense to me!

[reptilez]

I think dragon_slave made a good point:
"And not all people get cancer, but it can happen."

Not all beardies get Impacted by mealworms, But it can happen.

[reptilez]

I think dragon_slave made a good point:
"And not all people get cancer, but it can happen."

Not all beardies get Impacted by mealworms, But it can happen.

[Dragon_Slave]

Thank You! :D
I knew it had to make sense to someone other than me! Lol.

[eyespy]

I've assisted on bowel resections of hundreds of adult beardies that have gotten impacted on mealworms, so I do know it can happen. Owners will tell us what their setup is and we have no way of knowing whether they are really kept at those temperatures or not so we don't really keep track of how many were kept at inadequate temps, there's just no way to verify that.

Dehydration is sometimes an issue but most of the dragons in my experience were well hydrated. Being kept on sand seems to be a bigger issue than dehydration in my opinion. Many of the impactions had both sand and exoskeleton in them. But of course one vet tech's experiences is far from being a scientific study.