Best starter monitor?

[tHeGiNo]

Well I have been reading up on Varanids for quite a while now, and am seriously considering getting one. I am curious as to what you guys feel is the best monitor to start with.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ackies.

[TK2]

Varanus Flavirufus

[asphyxia]

How much room can you provide for the monitor ?
Is the cost of food a factor ?
How much do you want to Spend on the monitor?
Do you care if it is WC or CB?

Why a monitor over a type of lizard ?


Then I may be able to recomend somthing

Brian

[fanmaninacan]

Hey!
i have the same question....
LOL
i can get a huge cage..no worries....food no prob...
size.....nothing to big.......3 feet...less maybe.
price......*cheap*..no ackies...
i was looking at a sav..but all WC......
the main factor is tameness..for me.
thanks guys

[Jeff_Favelle]

The cost to keep, feed, and maintain a monitor like a Savannah will far exceed the initial cost of an "expensive" monitor like an Ackie in one year.

[tHeGiNo]

Originally posted by asphyxia
How much room can you provide for the monitor ?
Is the cost of food a factor ?
How much do you want to Spend on the monitor?
Do you care if it is WC or CB?

Why a monitor over a type of lizard ?


Then I may be able to recomend somthing

Brian

Around a 7 foot long enclosure. Food, as in crickets, rats, eggs, chicken internals, no that should not be a problem. Im not looking to spend a fortune, however if it is something suitable for a beginner, sure. Of course I care if it is WC :D I try my best to in any case whatsoever avoid WC specimens. This 7 foot enclosure would go in my room. I would leave the door of the enclosure open during the day to let him roam around and catch some rays through the window. Why a monitor? Well all I can say is I am fascinated with them, they are truely incredible animals. I was looking for something semi-tame, not for a pet just so i can get in his cage without getting my head bitten off :D I hear water monitors are known for being docile, but are big? What do you think about that? By the way, I have had ackies in the past, amazing, truely amazing. I am hoping to get a pair of yellows in the future.

[deadpinkphish6]

Yeah if you're looking for a good starter monitor that is cheap to maintain a Sav is not your best bet in my oppinion, they're easy to tame but as I've seen as of late they have their mood swing, but as I forgot to tell people he has calmed down. I'm still handeling him with gloves for the moment just untill I can be 100% sure or pretty close to 100% that I won't lose some skin when trying to pick him up. I'm not sure about other monitors but Sav's grow like nothing I've ever seen before, and if you want to maintain it around 3 feet it'd be a good monitor have although at times could grow to 5-6' I know of a couple differant people with Sav's who at adult stages are now in the 5' range but they're like a 5' puppy dog but they are keeping them in LARGE enclosures, but Sav's are pretty expensive to maintain but if price is not an option and you have some time to spend with him each day then I'd reccomend a Sav but I think I too should have started with a differant Monitor than a Sav but I'm glad I've got em now.

[tHeGiNo]

By the way fanmanican, I do not think there are many monitors you can house in a 3 foor enclosure man, it needs to be at least double its length and width equal to the length of the monitor.

[deadpinkphish6]

I would not reccomend putting too many monitors in the sun, it's a risk you must decide to take but they can become terrors in once introduced to sunlight as I was told a few days ago on the forum mine became a total prick a day after I brought him out in the sun so I wouldn't reccomend it but it's your choice.

[asphyxia]

I want this next, it seems to be a good fit for you aswell (imo)

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8734&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500

Picture By Steve B...I trust he wont mind

Cheers!
Brian

[deadpinkphish6]

ahh Steve's always got great pictures of his monitors.

[fanmaninacan]

Hey
Gino,
My mistake.
I wanted the Monitor to average around 3 feet not the enclosure.

I dont see how sav monitors will cost sooo much to feed.
They eat eggs..(a day to day item everyone has)
Chicken..(everyone has it)
beef(same as above)
dog food..(if u have a dog u have it)lol
Mice, rats-- (The simpleist thing to breed)
Crickets,Superworms--The part that will cost u $$
(thats with most lizards)

Im still thinking about that SAV...
(tameness is the main factor)
Its for a Pet...LOL

thanks
Im Out
T.P

[tHeGiNo]

Yes the Dumerils Monitor, beautiful species. I was thinking that as a possibility too.

[tHeGiNo]

I forgot to add, know anyone who has CBB dumerils?

[JeffT]

A good beginner monitor, like Jeff said, is Ackies, they average about 20 inches and dont need a terribly large cage.

[V.hb]

fan, just because the monitor will eat the food offered does not nessecarily mean its good for them.
Dog food - high ash, leads to kidney problems and is definatly fatal.
Beef - This is another bad form of food to feed on a daily basis to your monitors.
Chicken - Our chicken is pretty well chemically grown.. May be ok for our consumption (not exactly proven either) Definatly not the best food source for your monitor either.
Eggs - Same as chicken unless you go with quall or organic eggs.

Stick to rodents and bugs and you wont have a problem. I too own savannahs, ackies, blackthroats, niles And have owned many other species. I find savs are the easiest and the best beginner pet. Enclosure wont cost more then 75$ to make out of wood, dirt is free, lights are pricey, but floods arent expensive. just my opinion. I really do like Ackies too, but i would never have gotten into varanids the way I'am without the push from my savannahs. Good luck.

[Emily-Fisher]

From reading caresheets, ackies sound like they are by far the best for begginers. Need I say more?

[V.hb]

"from reading" thats not hands on......... Like i said in my response, it takes the hands on approach to really get one you like. They are all unique in their own ways.

[Tim and Julie B]

Read up on everything and choose something you feel best meets your requirements and is something you love you can't go wrong. Just research until you find one species you like. But do not settle on something that you will be unhappy with later. Take everyones advice but ultimatly it is your decision. White throats kick butt, Or black throats, Or peach throats, or blk trees, or blue tailed or................................................ ....................................

[tHeGiNo]

Yep, trust me I have been reading my @$$ off. I just figured I'd see what people with hands on advice as to what they think would be the best for a first monitor, besides an ackie.

[Tim and Julie B]

we had a white throat as our first one. She is great! I have no idea if other people consider them a good starter or not. We had no problems.

[Aaron_S]

get a parayguan red tegu...stay relatively small at the size of 30"-36". The ones I have worked with are tame just watch out going in..strong feed response lol.They also have some nice colours.

[Gregg M]

White throats are some of the best monitors you could keep...... Get big a tame....... I had one pushing 6 feet plus....... It was my lap lizard....... But, I would not recomend any large varanid for a beginner......

[fanmaninacan]

Hey!

guys thanks.!!
Yep so far its looking bright for a sav.!
i understand ackies are good to...(but too small)
.......when is it the best time to start feeding a sav..pinkies?..around what age?..what size?

im geting a 8 by 2 feet enclosure......Will a baby be fine in one that BIG?......I am planning on feeding it in a diff tank.
BIGGER the better...??(in some cases)

N guys help me pick out a substrate-would use newspaper..But really dont want to.......--playsand
--bed a beast
---normal potting soild

I really like the playsand.....BUT.....Im not shure......(impactions)

any one know a good place to get a baby sav?--cant find a CB.!.
will have to settle for a Wc..=(

thanks every 1

WOW GINO>>...sorry for stealing ur post!!,,,lol.....

im out
T.P

[asphyxia]

Hey Fan my friend,

Sand? Newspaper?, F. me, You have alot of research to do first.
I suggest you do some then start a new post.

In the meantime IMO the best substright is dirt, there is some great suggestions in the Varanius forum, look at them

Good Luck
Brian

[tHeGiNo]

Play sand would be a horrible idea :D Try mulch, or coconut fibres as they are digestable in the Hydrochloric acids of the stomache :D Do not settle for a WC man, keep looking for CB thats where you want to support lol. As far as monitors go, the bigger the better is always the case i believe. You know that you will have to maintain a basking spot for your Savannah that ranges from about 100-115°F. The 8 foot long is perfect, but remember you need to keep this puppy at ambient temps of 85-90°F. As an adult, you may want to make the enclosure wider then 2 feet however. Generally, it should be as wide as the length of the monitor. I do however feel Savs would be a good choice and am considering one. This is due to their relatively small size and ability to 'tame.' I am still trying to make up my mind as far as which to get...

[V.hb]

Gino, you wont find many CB monitors other then ackies in Ontario.. unless you go into other dwarfs and thats big bucks. so settle for a healthy WC juvinile

[V.hb]

also savannah basking spots should be hotter than 115 degrees, more like 130-150.

[tHeGiNo]

My apologies, I do not know why I put 115. Hey I just woke up then give me a break lol. As far as not finding many cb monitors, I guess a lot must be misrepresented as cb.

[V.hb]

most people who claim something is CB and are not reputable are usually full of it.. lots of people try and sell stuff as CB when it isnt. Ask for proof, see parents, see eggs hatching. Most of the time if you're in tune with varanids you'll be aware of whos hatching what anyways. good luck

[tHeGiNo]

Very good point, as there aren't a load of breeders. Thanks.

[TK2]

Yes this is a good point, breeders (or anyone claiming to do so) should have pics of breeding pairs ,eggs and monitors hatching.

[Linds]

Originally posted by deadpinkphish6
I would not reccomend putting too many monitors in the sun, it's a risk you must decide to take but they can become terrors in once introduced to sunlight as I was told a few days ago on the forum mine became a total prick a day after I brought him out in the sun so I wouldn't reccomend it but it's your choice.


Why would you want to deprive an animal of something that it would thrive on if you have the opportunity to provide it with such? These animals are basking lizards, they were born to be in the sun. I'm willing to bet your guy just perked right up and was feeling a lot better than he was after catching some vitamins and whatnot from the natural sun. People need to stop caring for their animals in ways that benefit their personal preferences rather than their animals needs. SUnlight is one of the most natural things a monitor, or any basking lizard can benefit from. I keep my iguana outside in the summer, and I believe this is the reason she is still kicking at 19 years of age. She becomes a lot more active and full of beans, and it is because she is getting her needs met to the max, doesn't matter how many UV bulbs and supplements you give your animals, nothing can compare to that of natural sunlight, and the results show, as you have experienced with yours! Apologies if this post has come across harshly... tone gets lost in type... it was truly not my intent :)

[Steeve B]

well said Linds! many times I read your posts, as I see it your an example. Kind regards

[LORI34205]

well said!
and should savs basking spot realy be 130-150!
i heard 120 and that what i keep mine at

[LORI34205]

you want a good starter monitor
the nile is the best go catch one that is about 2 feet long and watch him rip your arm off. LOL jk
i just bought a sav that is only about 7 inches long and hes really cool, we have definetly began to like me because he will no longer run from my hand.Hes great and i suggest him as a first timer hes my first too.

[tabastifur]

If you can find a baby, I would honestly suggest a sav. Ackies would be better, but they are way to over priced. I saw CBB advertised the other day for 500 dollars each! I bought a sav as my first monitor and it was probably the best way to get into the monitor world. They really are awesome.

[V.hb]

Tabastifur, I completely agree.. I own both and still prefer savs.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Over-priced and being too expensive for YOU to own are 2 different things. In my opinion, all animals that we keep in captivity are way under-priced and under valued. Living things have a way higher dollar amount than what is currently on them in my books.

[Bryce Masuk]

ackies Are Completely worth what you will pay for them If I were you I would invest in a trio Then you will make A fair chunk A of money from them and they are far more entertaining when kept together and they are always in demand so you wont have a problem selling them that's why you pay 500 each is because of the demand. supply and demand will ALWAYS control the market
Do think a albino ball python will be what its worth now later on Albino boa's were ONCE worth 30 grand a piece but not anymore...

[tabastifur]

Jeff; Thank you for your opinion. I'll be sure to write it down and show it to all of my friends and family.

Bryce; Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love ackies, I have a trio of yellow's myself and I can watch them for hours at a time. I just think that for what it costs to house baby ackies and feed them, they shouldn't be 300-400 each. They should be more like 150-200. You better believe that when my ackies start producing for me, I won't be charging 350 a peice, they'll be more like 150 a peice, and I'll still be making money!

V.Hb;

I own both as well, and I can't get enough of my sav!

[Jeff_Favelle]

By the time you produce eggs and hatch them, the market WILL be $150-200 a piece, so I wouldn't worry.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I just think that for what it costs to house baby ackies and feed them, they shouldn't be 300-400 each.

Ha ha, unfortunately, this is NOT the criteria for what an animal costs. I can't believe you think that it is. A Pied BP costs $15,000CDN, yet probably costs $60 a year to feed. A green Anaconda costs well over $300 a year to feed, so by your standards green Anaconda should cost me $75,000 to buy. Ummmmm............nope. I can buy them for $90.

So please tell me again why you think that Ackies are too expensive. In fact, tell us all.

[V.hb]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
By the time you produce eggs and hatch them, the market WILL be $150-200 a piece, so I wouldn't worry.

Not sure who you were directing this to...? Whats with all the negativity? Some people prefer one animal to another, this means what? they're incapable of breeding something? I personally dont even see the challenge with breeding these animals, I ve had mine for maybe almost two months now and have seen more prolific nature than seen in beardies...

I personally prefer larger bodied monitors, It's got nothing to do with cash value. I Do like Ackies, but far prefer my frilled dragons, or even a colony of water dragons.

[V.hb]

Sorry skipped a bit, saw who you were directing the comment to. I Still see no reason to act that why due to a difference of opinion..

[tabastifur]

Jeff;

I don't know why you would add up an entire year of food to find the cost of an animal? I honestly don't know where you got that from!

I was just saying that from the time ackies hatch to the time they are sold, they cost maybe 20 bucks each to feed and house. Yet they still go for 350-500 dollars. It just seems greedy that's all. I could understand that price if there weren't many of them around, but that's not the case. EVERYONE is breeding ackies. It's almost to the point where I can go to 7-11 and get a slurpee and an ackie.

V.Hb's right, there shouldn't be so much negativity, so I am just going to go ahead and say I am sorry if I offended you with my original comment.

[Jeff_Favelle]

You are basing how much an animal costs to feed from the time of hatching to the time of sale??? Ummm......ok. Have fun with that.

You aren't making sense man. If that's your criteria, then I should sell normal BP's for the same as Pastel and albino BP's? They all cost the same to raise after hatching. Or maybe when I get Kimberly Rock babies, those should be the same price? The babies are no more expensive to hatch and raise.

LOL! Ok then.


And I live in Canada (thank god) so I'm not exactly sure where you think all these ackies are coming from. Name me 6 people in this country that have hatched fertile eggs. Lots of people in the States. And that's fine, ha ha, because they can't export (Lacey Act). So just who is supplying the Canadian 7-11's with Ackies?

And I'm not saying they are hard. Lizards aren't even my bag and I had mine for 3 months and got fertile eggs.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I don't know why you would add up an entire year of food to find the cost of an animal? I honestly don't know where you got that from!


Ummmm because food and electricity is NOT free. Where does that money come from? I can't keep my reptiles outdoors and expect them to catch insects. If I bought my own crickets and mice, it would cost me over $200 every 2 weeks to feed my monitors. So I should sell babies for $150 because YOU think that's too expensive? Ha ha, last I checked, "tabastifur" was not the determiner of market valure for reptiles in Canada. The MARKET ITSELF is.

[V.hb]

I would really like to explain why I feel ackies are pushed the way they are, but Iam keeping my opinions to myself here... I have to ask though, Jeff have you owned or worked with other varanids besides dwarfs?

[NiagaraReptiles]

I agree. Australian monitors should be cheaper than imported, wild collected/farmed monitors that very little time and money invested in them, not to mention the ridiculously high mortality rate........

For Jeff - I can think of five people (including ourselves). Almost there ;)

[tabastifur]

Werid the way a couple of ackie breeders would like the prices to remain high on the monitors they produce!

One word..."Greed"

I am done here good day to you all...

[NiagaraReptiles]

Actually, for me it's more protecting the investments of my previous customers and being fair to fellow breeders in the market place. I assure you, come years end I have yet to show profit from monitor sales. Not that I feel the need to justify myself to you, but I will let you know that i go through 3000-4000 crickets a week with my monitors, in addition to the cost of hydro, water, enclosures.........and that's not even touching base on the initial investment for my breeders.

I'm really not trying to stir the pot there. Simply trying to illustrate the "behind the scenes" expenses, and why Australian monitors are valued the way they are.

Also, it's not like you can just go grab them out of the wild, or even easily import them.

[tabastifur]

"Neat!"

[Jeff_Favelle]

1) Its weird how people say they are done, yet continue to post. Always happens. Don't know why, but it does.

2) For some reason this tabastifur thinks that he/she should determine the price of an animal in Canada. Not sure why. And he/she hasn't really explained why, yet continues to have the argument that they should be less.

3) The new argument that ackies are too expensive is that the breeders are too greedy? Ha ha, that's rich! (not literally). If I was greedy, I would NOT be breeding monitors. I would have 4 Freedom Breeder racks filled with Leopard Gecko morphs pumping out 300-600 babies a year. I hazard that I might make $400 in monitors if I sell all my babies this year over and above my costs. That's greed? Ha ha. Ok then........ That $400 is like 1/2 a frickin' car payment!! Wow, I'm soooooo greedy. Whatever.

4) This tabastifur STILL hasn't answered my question as to why Ackies should be cheaper. Saying that they should be this price or that price is not enough. WHY should they be a certain price? What's the reason? It might be legitimate. Share with us all.


I'm not done here.

[asphyxia]

What does dertermin the price of a monitor?
What other monitors have similar cercumstances to Ackies if any?

Why are sav's so cheep (and in my opinion way too cheep)

How come no one complains about frilled Dragons @ $350.00
a resionable price I think.

When and if my ackies breed I will sell some for the market price.
and give or trade a couple to another breeder to breed.

I have more questions and will perhaps start another thread after this.


Thanks
Brian

[V.hb]

I know from my point of view, savannahs are a more affordable alternative to ackies, and personally as i mentioned above I prefer larger monitors.

As far as feed goes, I dont see much difference between Savs and ackies. To be honest, I find reliable rodent suppliers much more available than insect suppliers.

For someone wanting to get into varanids, I feel savs just open the doors to many other possibilities. Savannahs dont even get that big, people seem to think they are monsters, were not talking salvators, or salvadori here.

[Jeff_Favelle]

What does dertermin the price of a monitor?

Many many things.

1) Availability is one. If only one ambre has them, he charges whatever he wants. Who's gonna say anything? Monopoly. Simple. Decreases as new breeders are added.

2) Cost to produce. If it costs $5,000 to produce 50 babies, would you sell them for $10 a piece? NO. Why? Because then it would COST you $4,500 to produce 50 baby monitors. It may be fun and all, but I can't afford to have my monitor's breeding success COST me money!! You may be different. If I had infinite money, I would have exactly 3 monitors. A trio of Perenties in a 100x100x30 enclosure. THat would be heaven. But that won't happen.

3) What the cost to initially buy. People risked being put in JAIL to get Ackies to N. America. As suh, they charged a lot for them. Why would people pay a lot for them and not get their money back. Its nice to be altruistic and all, but I don't support OTHER people's habits. If they can't afford to pay what I PAID for the animal, tough nuts. If I paid $40,000 for a car, why would I sell it to you for $30,000? Right.

Why are sav's so cheep (and in my opinion way too cheep)

Imports. They are free to catch, they are cheap to ship, and they are cheap to house before they are bought. So this equals a cheap lizard (much like normal BP's). Mother nature does the hard work, the hunters rape the wild and sell them for next to nothing (can't blame them, they don't know any better). There are NO CB Savannah monitors. Ravi bred them, but I don't think anyone else did. What's the incentive to breed them? Costs $2,000+ a year to house and feed a pair. Breeding/pair bonding is NOT guaranteed and fertile eggs are not guaranteed and hatching eggs is not guaranteed. So no one does it. And imports rule the market.


How come no one complains about frilled Dragons @ $350.00
a resionable price I think.

Give it time. Someone always complains about something. They complain, yet they do nothing about it, nor do they justify their complaints. Nice.

When and if my ackies breed I will sell some for the market price.

Our good buddy tabastifur would call this "greedy".

[asphyxia]

Thanks Jeff.

yea, I wish people would just pay a little more for the CB Savs.

Brian

[Lisa]

While I'm not an expert in monitors, I do have a grasp of economics, and what sets the price is a combination of supply, demand and cost of production. part of the cost of production is obtaining the animal in the first place. you say buy a trio and breed them, you're talking about laying out 1500 plus the cost of feeding them. that's not cheap. I think most people would like to see a return on their investment and selling them at $150 each isn't going to pay the bills. and don't just factor cost of food and electricity into the equasion, factor in your time, both the time it took to work with the animals and the time it took to make the money to pay for the food, electricity, caging. These things add up. And that's not counting the cost of the space you're using for them, and from what little i do know, i know they're not like cornsnakes and can be housed in a small rack system, which limits the number of them that you can keep before you run out of space trying to mass produce them.

[markb]

Did you know that the collecting of, export of, import of, of V. exanthematicus and V. niloticus is almost identical in methodology, economics (which Laws rarely change), attitude towards in both Africa and North America (= a commodity) as the African Slave Trade 1600-1809?? Just food for thought....no animal, whether biped or quadraped should have a price on its head - but money is aim of all peoples, and also their evil....
cheers,
markb

[Jeff_Favelle]

Lisa, that was the best post that I have ever read from you! Economics is yer game!! You said exactly what I wanted to say, only 100 times more eloquently!!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I hear ya Mark. I hate wild caught animals. I do equate it with the most horrible of acts. I shudder when I think about it And seeing as no CB Savannas are available, I fail to see how they are a great 1st time monitor.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I ve had mine for maybe almost two months now and have seen more prolific nature than seen in beardies...

Being prolific and having an adequate nest and laying fertile eggs and being able to artificially hatch those eggs are two WAY DIFFERENT things. So what your saying is, you don't see how hard these things are to breed, yet you haven't hatched an egg yet? I'm not getting down on you or gloating man, but does that not sound weird to you? I mean, that's like me saying Blackheads aren't hard to breed, yet I have never owned, bred or hatched one.

People should talk from experience, and not speculation or heresay. If they were easy, then more than 5 people would have bred them in this country. They are expensive and a lot of people own them. If they are soooo easy, then there could be a LOT of people making a LOT of money. How do you explain that?

Right. Thank you.

[markb]

Hi Jeff and Lisa,

I have been keeping track of as many breedings of V. exanthematicus as I can for 20+ years now, and I recall I bred them in 1987, 1992 (a D.I.E. full term though), Reynolds (1992), Glades Herp (1991), Pierson (1993-4), Thakoordyal (2002), Nieves (1993), Reinshagen (1993), Roder & Horn (1994), and maybe I have some more reports on them, but not a whole lot of people I know of have bred these fantastic animals to-date.....
cheers,
markb

[Jeff_Favelle]

That's a whole lot more than I thought Mark!!

But, as you say, still a tiny dop in the hat compared to ow many are imported. And how many CB have EVER in Canada, vs the amount of wild caught? Like 10,000 wild caught for every CB? More?

[V.hb]

Iam not speaking from speculation, or anything. I dont see why you are so rude to everyone. You have a high and mighty attitude, you can deny all you want. But i see no reason for it.. I dont see a reason for anyone being negative. I mean look at my post before, just asking about ackie behavior, I figured you would post as you've kept them and bred them. You decided to analyze my post as if iam some sort of moron asking a pointless question. By that I mean, going into my "perfect temps" reference. You know what I meant, Iam pretty sure most people would. Iam not going to get into that again. I know what you paid for your ackies (roughly) probably close to what I paid for mine. so I see why you price yours the way you do. I just see absolutly no need to be rude to anyone that disagrees with you.. And unlike others I can back out of a conversation that is going nowhere. In reality, I was posting to see others oberservations of their ackies, out of the enjoyment of the animal.


No, iam not gloating that I have all the people skills here either, I certaintly do not. I just don't agree with your approach.

On a further note. The only way you will see anymore captive bred animals appear in the pet trade is by encouraging those who do own exantehmaticus, niltic's. albigs etc to breed them! Ive kept varanids for quite awhile now, I never purchase WC adults, only CH or CBB babies. All I see on many varanid forums is the overall discouragment from buying anything other than high end "dwarfs" many people supply and charge alot for. No this isnt a shot at what you charge either.

To date, I can count the people who have offered me good advice on varanids on ONE hand. thats pretty pathetic. Most would rather be rude and jump to conclusions, or just try and keep their high and mighty attitudes.

I hope i haven't offended anyone, I haven't tried to. This is all so rediculous. Thanks for reading.

[V.hb]

On a further note, No i do not have ackie eggs as of yet. I hope to very soon, as well as albigs, yes albigs. My 2 year old pair have been caught copulating and the female has been digging.
(thanks to Steeve B's advice)

I havent had my ackies long for them to even produce eggs, copulating and egg production are two different things, and I assure you my nesting medium is up to par. Thanks for your concerns.

[V.hb]

I keep adding stuff, my apologies....
On a FINAL note, I previously said Sav's are the best choice for a beginner. This statement, iam completely final on. My whole perspective on this is:
Purchase a CB animal, breed it. Thats fantastic!! however
I find alot more fun, and challenge in watching a CH monitor (preferably something larger than a dwarf) grow to its full potential and be secure enough to reproduce. No I haven't had any eggs from my albigs yet, but I have a good feeling it will happen soon (refer to above post) I have achieved eggs from my female exanthmaticus once however I failed to incubate them. You live and learn. Thats where all the fun is.

If i caused any commotion in this thread, iam sorry. I just wish the overall attitude with varanids would become more user friendly. In other words, before accusing one of purchasing WC animals (as we know how hard it is on their natural life cycles to remove females and farm them) offer advice to them, instead of telling them they should have purchased a dwarf........ Dwarfs are not what everyone looks for in a varanid. I Do agree they are easier to house, but in the long run, I personally find them more of a pain.
Thanks again. This is the last time il add to my above posts, i promise. haha
PS.
If you are so against people purchasing wild caught varanids start a petition to end pet stores from selling them instead of labelling those who do buy them as ignorant. I know for one if I purchase any CH animal I do it in hopes to breed it and supply captive animals to the pet trade.

[snakemann87]

I have had little experience with monitors which doesnt allow me much say I believe. But what I did experience with them was 2 little baby CB Savs. One one as nice as could be, the other.....err... a little B$TCH!!!! I will hopefully be getting back into them when I find out if Im moving for SURE. Thanks

[Bryce Masuk]

Snakeman I doubt you have USACB sav's I bet they are CH With monitiors its different then with anything else CB mean's farmed unless your talking about ackies or a species you cant get out of the wild anymore

[Linds]

As Bryce mentioned... CB doesn't necessarily mean captive BRED... it often symbolizes captive BORN aka captive hatched. This is where dealers and the like trick can you into thinking you are getting a captive bred baby :rolleyes:

Steeve,
Thanks for the compliment :)

[Jeff_Favelle]

I am not speaking from speculation, or anything.

Are you sure? You specifically SAID that you haven't bred Ackies, yet you say they are easier to breed/more prolific (whatever that means) than Beardies. If that's not speculation on your part, I'll eat my hat. Recruitment rates for Ackies and Beardies WOULD be about equal (if you did your research), if monitor eggs were easy to hatch. Even the best of breeders kills an entire clutch of eggs. Not so with Beardie eggs.

I don't see why you are so rude to everyone. You have a high and mighty attitude, you can deny all you want. But I see no reason for it.. I don't see a reason for anyone being negative..

3 sentences all to say the same negative thing. Kind of hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

And when exactly was I rude? Please provide a specific sentence. I never raised my voice, I never slandered anyone, I never called anyone names or branded them with a bad characteristic. In fact, I NEVER take posts to a personal level. But for some reason you do. Why is that? Boredom? When someone disagrees with the all-powerful VHB, they are automatically arrogant and high and mighty? That's garbage. If there can be no discussion without you crying the blues, what's the point in having a discussion?

As for "analyzing" your post when you said that your monitor cage has "perfect" temperatures, well Kendrick replied to that one first and you didn't say a peep. Both Jon and I went through the wringer (him LONG before me) from the varanid gurus until we had it imprinted that there is NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT TEMPERATURE FOR A MONITOR. Its a bad thing to say, especially when a new-bee can read it. And in case you haven't noticed, this board is FULL of them. So me pointing that out is not bad.
Check out this post by THE monitor guru: Maybe you should email him and tell him to shove it and that you have "perfect temps"??

Posted by FR on Tue - Jul 15 - 09:07am:

In Reply to: Temps and stuff posted by Jefe on Mon - Jul 14 - 11:27pm:

As you may know, I have said, use a range of temps, for 13 years now. It was published in both the popular mags, many years ago. I have said use temps slightly above and below what they need, then find ways to allow the use of them.
Why I said that is, the information has been out there for many years. Its availible for anyone who is interested and wants it.

I get the feeling, its more about humans wanting to prove themselves superior or some dang thing or just being plain bullheaded or lazy. Maybe, more like, I think this is right, and the animals suffer for it. For instance, there may be a huge need for reptile keeper pychologists. Something may be said like this, Sir(keeper person) you may be forcing these horrible conditions on these poor defenseless creatures because, all kinds of crap is being forced on you. Deep down, you know whats right, but are doing this to show you have power to control. Yea I know that is dumb, but I said it to again make you think. It may not be too far off. Because if there is no deep seeded reasons people do the things they do, then they must be just plain dumbarsses and cannot read or think or copy. Yea, I know the world is full of them.

I mean really, if you really wanted to breed monitors, all you have to do is copy someone who is(how hard can that be) Then figure out later how it works. Thats what most of the commerical breeders did. Frank


And unlike others I can back out of a conversation that is going nowhere

That's just it. Conversations don't HAVE to go no where. They can take tangents, they can digress, they can be jokes. All that's important, is that we are talking about monitors. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?


No, iam not gloating that I have all the people skills here either, I certaintly do not. I just don't agree with your approach.


No, you shouldn't gloat. If these are your people skills, I'd sure hate to see your petty, irrational, and vindictive skills.

Jesus H.

On a further note. The only way you will see anymore captive bred animals appear in the pet trade is by encouraging those who do own exantehmaticus, niltic's. albigs etc to breed them!

Unfortunately, most people that own these animals simply do not have the capabilities to do such a thing. They simply aren't there yet. Monitor breeding is brand new (relatively), and it isn't easy. And most people that have made the choice to buy those monitors that you listed, are not going to be breeders any time soon. Sad, but its the reality.

And that doesn't even take into consideration that its next to impossible to make a WC monitor "un-insane" from its capture and shipment. Ask the pros. They know what that's all about. CB niles, Savannas, waters etc etc won't happen in our lifetime.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I havent had my ackies long for them to even produce eggs, copulating and egg production are two different things, and I assure you my nesting medium is up to par. Thanks for your concerns.

1) Ackies can copulate, ovulate and lay eggs within 2 weeks. Its been done and documented. So to say that you haven't had them long enough for them to breed is a farce, unless you've only had them for a week. Monitors don't run around gravid like snakes (at least not Odatria from what I understand). They breed and are gravid in a short period of time.

Kendrick will know for sure, but I know people have had eggs and then fertile eggs laid 2 weeks RIGHT AFTER, so what does that tell us?

As for your nesting medium being "up to par", how do you know? They haven't laid eggs yet!!!! I don't understand how you can infer, speculate, and guess with such a straight face!!!! Its hilarious. Post that on varanus.net and see the repsonses you get. I'll do it for you actually. I'll post, "hey, I haven't got any eggs yet, but my nesting medium rocks!".

It'll be a hoot.

[Jeff_Favelle]

...and here's where it all falls apart folks:

If you are so against people purchasing wild caught varanids start a petition to end pet stores from selling them instead of labelling those who do buy them as ignorant.


Are you seriously chastizing me for supporting Captive Bred animals over Wild Caught??? You MUST be joking. I'm sorry we don't share the same views about capturing wild animals and putting them in cages (not really sorry). Did you read MarkB's post on the the wild caught thing? No? I'll repost it then.....


Did you know that the collecting of, export of, import of, of V. exanthematicus and V. niloticus is almost identical in methodology, economics (which Laws rarely change), attitude towards in both Africa and North America (= a commodity) as the African Slave Trade 1600-1809?? Just food for thought....no animal, whether biped or quadraped should have a price on its head - but money is aim of all peoples, and also their evil....
cheers,
markb

And you are raking me over the coals for saying that wild caught animals are not the preference? Wow. Please don't do glue before you log into Ssnakess. Seriously. I argue with a LOT of people on a LOT of issues, but I have never had anyone disagree with my stance on wild caught animals. And that's where this conversation ends. I fully realize that it wil be impossible for me to impart any shred of knowledge about these creatures from you. So I see no point in conversing anymore.

Toodles.

[LORI34205]

dont argue with jeff.............................you wont win

[V.hb]

Decided not to post what I did, as theres no use in anymore talk. I assure you, you misunderstood what I said, but thats what the net is all about. Iam not offended, or "hurt" by your posts either.

Have fun.

[meluvstgr]

Wow. I was going to reply about the...oh wait. What the heck WAS I gonna reply about? I think it was about the temperature of the basking spot. Someone posted that savannahs are supposed to have a temp of 130-150. I was just wondering where that person got that information.

Not to argue, just curious. Wanna know that I am taking good care of my Savannah. I heard that 125 is the highest and the temperature of the other side should be 75, that way the temperature is just right for them to decide.

And also, aren't savannah babies supposed to heat faster? So 130-150 just sounds too high to me. I'm DEFINITELY no expert. In fact, this is my first monitor. As far as his individual temperament, he's a sweetie. He wiggles a little, but other than that, he's great. But I've heard of some savannahs being snappy.

Anyway, I'm new to this forum and know absolutely nothing by way of experience. I just go by what Daniel Bennett and Ravi Thakoordyal tell me!

[lordkovacs]

interesting thread...I too forgot what it was originally about by the end of it. oh well. cheers,
MIKE