Live Young?

[SerpentLust]

Ok my ex and I are having a tiff about whether or not it's possible for some snakes to birth live young. It started because I was interested in breeding Rosy Boas to see the live young and such.

His argument: THEN WHAT MAKES US MAMMALS?

*rolls eyes* So I need some backup proof now. I have shown him pics, I have shown him caresheets that specifically say, "AS THEY BIRTH LIVE YOUNG"

Stupid men!

Jenn >(

[geckoguy157]

yes boa's have live birth

[Invictus]

Boa's and even some pythons give live birth.

And what makes us mammals is the fact that we, like all other mammals (including dolphins) have MAMMARY GLANDS. In other words, mammals give milk. Snakes do not.

But boas DO give live birth. Tell your ex he is a complete dolt.

[Christina]

Rattle snakes and Garter snakes also give live births

[LdyDrgn]

So do Blue Tongued skinks...

[DragnDrop]

..... and many fish and insect too.

[BWSmith]

All Vipers (except one) give live birth. Althought he term can be misleading. They are actually developed and born in eggs within the mother's body. The eggs simply do not form all the way and remain as embryonic sacs. Shortly after the sacs are "laid", the young break free. So they are actually eggs, but they are developed inside the mother and even at the point of being born inside the sac, they are wiggling. So it is still a live birth, even if it is not neccessarily a mammilian style birth.

[red bootz]

two words;
no placenta!

[Zoe]

BWSmith - that's what I thought. Because infertile boa eggs come out as eggs.

Why is it like that, though? Is it because boas (and whatever else gives live birth) come from a colder climate (or with a larger temperature variation)?

Also, which python has live birth?

Thanks!
Zoe

Oh, and so do some chameleons.

[LdyDrgn]

I don't know of any pythons that give live birth. I do know that one ssp of sand boa lays eggs as well does as the Calabar boa (or python, depending on your own personal beliefs :p).

[depressor86]

kenyan sand boas LdyDrgn?

[LdyDrgn]

No, not the Kenyans. If I remember correctly it is the Saudi Sand boas (eryx jayakari).

[eyespy]

How about you really freak him out and mention the egg-laying mammals, the platypus and echidna! :p

[eyespy]

Anyhow, I should think most men's minds would immediately spring to the mammary glands for an example of what makes mammals different. Or is your ex a leg man?

[Samba]

Hmm, what makes us mammals? Maybe we can produce our own, constant body heat? Many reptiles birth live young, and at least two, odd mammals I know lay eggs.
Jenn.. you've showed him all the proof he needs to believe you. Next thing you know he'll be telling you that Dinosaurs are make-believe!

[Zoe]

What makes us mammals?
- Precise tooth occlusions, and molars that fit together perfectly.
- three middle ear bones
- 2 sets of teeth
- hair
- mammals produce milk (i believe even egg layers do)
- body heat

Samba - there are 3 mammals that lay eggs that I know of, the Platypus and two species of echidna :)

[BWSmith]

dont know about two species of Spiny Anteater, but the spiny and the Platy both lay eggs.

For bonus points, how many venomous mammals are there?

[Zoe]

Well, that depends on your definition of venomous. Venomous and Poisonous are not the same thing.
Poison: A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means. (includes venom)
Venom : A poisonous secretion of an animal, such as a snake, spider, or scorpion, usually transmitted by a bite or sting.

Now, presuming you are refering to poison and not venom, i'm not sure of the exact number but the duckbilled platypus (males only), several species of shrews (short-tailed shrews namely, are neurotoxic. also the European water shrew), and the Solenodon (a small insectivore) are poisonous.

So that's about 4? Whats the exact number?

[Zoe]

(well, technically the shrew is venomous, the platypus is poisonous)

[V.hb]

Venom would be poisonous then......

[Zoe]

Yep, but some of these mammals are not considered venomous, but poisonous.

[V.hb]

I really dont think theres to much debate out there on the comparison of the two words...... If there is, what yahoo search did you do to find it? :)

[Zoe]

actually, on my search for different poisonous mammals I encoured many occurences of "venomous and poisonous are not the same thing". Following this, I used a couple dictionaries (online and book) to find the definitions of each word which were clearly different.

The debate is not important when dealing with spiders and snakes (they are both poisonous and venomous) but they are when dealing with animals that, say, excrete a toxin from their skin or claws, such as platypus, poison arrow frogs, and 2 species of birds.

Zoe

[V.hb]

Ok

[BWSmith]

Actuyally, the platy is venomous, not poisonous. The main difference is that the poison has to be injected into the blood stream or lymph system.

But yes, Platys and shrews are venomous. :)

[Zoe]

heh you sure BW? Everything I read said the opposite. I doubt this'll be resolved unless either of us become micro biologists, but anyway :P

Zoe

[reverendsterlin]

I know venom is a poison, but I thought the main difference was that venomous requires a delivery system like fangs or other specialized organs, which the plattypus posseses, but also is used for predation, which the plattypus doesn't so simply by default the plattypus is termed poisonous while still not fulfilling the requirements of either, while poisonous is a toxin that is in part or all of the body and usually requires attempted ingestion? Anyway I hadn't seen the solenodons mentioned which should complete the list platties, some shrews, and the solenodons.

[reverendsterlin]

oops next time read better Rev lol, yeah they were mentioned earlier

[Invictus]

Originally posted by Zoe
[B]What makes us mammals?
- Precise tooth occlusions, and molars that fit together perfectly.
- hair
- body heat

None of the above apply to Dolphins, but they are mammals....

[Aqua_Elf]

Dolphons I believe have all of the above, I know they nurse their young with milk and I beleive that whales and dolphins have tiny hairs all over their bodies. Dolphins are also warm blooded which means body heat. I'm not sure about the teeth either but I think they also have aligning teeth. But I know they have at least one of those. They also breath oxygen from the air like us not filtered from water like fish[blowholes].

[Zoe]

Invictus, if you think that you obviously know very little about whales and dolphins!
Dolphins have upper and lower jaws that fit together well. They are also born with a few hairs (namely above their eyes) they fall out with age. And YES! they produce body heat! how the heck do you expect them to survive in sub-zeroa water temperatures. Even SHARKS produce their own body heat...

Zoe

[Aqua_Elf]

I thought so.

[Invictus]

Sorry, when I was editing, I missed the thing about the teeth. I did know that.

I'm skeptical about the hair thing though. I'll see if I can find info about that.

And I was sure they were cold-blooded, but I'll concede defeat on that one. :)

[Linds]

Originally posted by Samba
Next thing you know he'll be telling you that Dinosaurs are make-believe!

Hahahahahahaha I actually met someone that didn't believe in dinosaurs, thinks its all a bunch of makebelieve, even though she believed in aliens!! :p

[Zoe]

http://whale.wheelock.edu/archives/ask99/0336.html

[Dom]

on an other note..

Tuna can be considered warm blooded... it does not produce its own body internelly but externally by simply moving extremelly fast thru the water..

[V.hb]

Originally posted by Zoe
Invictus, if you think that you obviously know very little about whales and dolphins!
Dolphins have upper and lower jaws that fit together well. They are also born with a few hairs (namely above their eyes) they fall out with age. And YES! they produce body heat! how the heck do you expect them to survive in sub-zeroa water temperatures. Even SHARKS produce their own body heat...

Zoe

Or maybe he just went on what he thought, and didnt pull out a book, or call up yahoo to check all of this.. Neat facts though.

[Zoe]

V.hb - you like contradicting me, don't you? At any rate, what he THOUGHT he knew was either not much or incorrect. It happens, but what was I supposed to say "You're entirely correct! I'll go tell the scientists that Dolphins are actually insects"?
And by the WAY, I didn't have to look in a book or search on yahoo to find that information. (however I did take a quick look to check my facts)

Dom - many fish who live in sub-zero waters produce some heat of their own. For example Sharks can be considered warm blooded. Their blood temperature is quite a bit higher than the temperature of the water surrounding them. However I don't know if friction caused by moving fast could be considered warm blooded, because it's not the body generating it's own heat, you know? :P

Zoe

[Linds]

I agree with Zoe, if the animal is using an external means of heating its body, then it is not warmblooded. That is similar to saying snakes are warmblooded because they get warm by moving to places with the best temps. To be warmblooded you have to be able to (internally) produce your own body heat ;)