Rattlesnake Roundups

[stevesemerko]

A while back I saw this show on tv and they were showing the rattlesnake roundup somewhere in Texas. This was one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen! They were taking thousands of western diamondback rattlesnakes from the wild and bringing them to this thing. They were decapitating buckets of them, they hung live ones on hooks and skinned them, they were also cooking the rattlesnakes and kids and adults were eating them it made me sick! I would like to get different peoples views on this and I was wondering if anyone else has seen this show on tv (where I live it was on T@@ or Dis@@@@@ Channel I can't remember now).

Thanks

Steve

[Hamster of Borg]

I have the same reaction, they are disgusting and sad. If we had puppy roundups where we slaughtered puppies, animal rights groups would freak, but because it is snakes (venomous ones at that) no one cares. Even Parks & Wildlife doesn't regulate the roundups - people participating do not have to obey non-game hunting bag limits and other regulations that are -supposed- to apply to the collection of all snakes in Texas. (I'm not positive about other states, but something tells me the are no better.)

Ham

[Samba]

I agree... I live in New Mexico where Rattlesnake Roundups are common once a year, and no one seems to think it's a big deal. In fact, it's marketed as 'family entertainment.'

Fortunately, we also have a Rattlesnake Museum. This museum contains many live, healthy speciemens as well as the stuffed variety. The museum's goal is to promote the rattlesnake as an interesting and needed creature... not something to fear.

For the people who are in favor of this slaughtering of innocent creatures, I wish the same fate on them. It's rediculous that we are so 'civilized' yet we still think this is a worthwhile past time.
Skinning an animal alive and allowing it to suffer is one of the worst things we humans can do. Especially when it really isn't warrented or needed.

[doenoe]

I saw that program. It really bites that people still need to entertain themselves by showing that they are still the hunters they once where. Nothing wrong with hunting the snakes down, but i dont see why you have to bring them to a gathering and slaughter them. Just find them, look at them, if you really must, handle them, but dont kill them. It makes no sense at all.

[V.hb]

Just hope a few rednecks get bitten in the process :)

[Edwin]

Yeah, it always makes me sad watching it on Discovery, especially how they torture the snakes before decapitating them. Family entertainment my foot.

[Lizzy001]

saw it...its sick...they say their teaching people how to respect the animals but how can u when u eat and kill them>??

[Colonel SB]

Rattlesnake round ups are disgusting, I mean what kinda slack jawed yokel would enjoy seeing that, hyuck hyuck! I think a Redneck round up would be better for the enviroment, less inbreeding thats fo sure.

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

Never heard of it, but im interested now. I second Hamsters post, if we had puppy round ups, the entire world would freak. Hasn't anyone stood up to these people running the show and 'expressed their views'? Samba - If you live in (Al-beh-kerk-ee) dunno how to spell it, I saw that rattlesnake museum last night on Insomniac. Looks like a pretty cool little exhibit.

[gonesnakee]

What most people don't realize about these roundups is how the snakes are gathered. They take jerrycans of gas & dump fuel down everyhole they find hoping that all the snakes etc. will come out because if they stay in the holes the gas will kill them. Unfortunately they dump gas into tortoise dens killing all the eggs. Eastern Indigos are killed regularly as a result of these roundups also as they use the burrows for their eggs as well. Not too mention all the other critters that live in the holes that are indiscriminately killed as a direct result of some rednecks "fun". They are so enviro"mentally" friendly afterall. They do turn the snakes into products such as boots, belts, hatbands, keychains, paperweights, hamburgers etc. It is all still rather disturbing to me though. Mind you a trip to any slaughter house is always disturbing, mind you I don't pack up the family & head to the processors either. Oh & Lizzy001 unless you are a full blown vegetarian that doesn't eat, wear or use anything from animals you are a hypocrit. Unfortunately we all are to certain extents. Heck I ate both ham & beef yesterday, both my slippers & my boots are made of leather & I think I used some glue as well. Just a few examples. We are all hyprocrits to some extent when it comes to these morality issues. I in no way shape or form support these roundups don't get me wrong, but there are 2 sides to the coin & it is very easy to be a full blown hypocrit while defending "our" side. How many species are they going to let them wipe out before they stop em is my question or is that their plan? Some disturbing things to think about anyway, sigh........ Mark I.

[Samba]

ThEmAdHaTtEr... it's Albuquerque, and yes, it's (The Rattlesnake Museum) a beautiful place to visit. I have gone to one rattlesnake roundup to complain, written letters to the govenor, Senate and the Humane Society, none of whom will do anything. I will never go to another one... it broke my heart, being a reptile and animal lover, to see those creatures totured and killed without reason. Knowing that no amount of money, advice or begging will get these freaks to stop and really think about what they are doing is frustrating.

It doesn't mean I don't do what can from my home... every spring I send out letters. e-mails and protests in an effort to at least ask that the people 'hunt', treat and dispatch the animals humanely.

[XxRachxX]

......what do these people get from it??
Yeah these people may well be eating snakes or wearing them, im mean.....cmon! these people dont go to a roundup to buy burgers, or hatbands do they?? they obviously go for the kill.
if we want to eat beef or pork, or wear leather, we dont all go to a big convention to rip the skin off live animals and "parade" around in it?, we dont go and make a party of it?
these people must hate these animals and do it out of disgust, fear or something else!!! we dont hate cows or pigs or chickens, do we?!
at the end of the day, it happens and i dont believe we can do much to stop it!! its just the things some people do! if something did happen.....it would still happen anyway!! like dog fights, **** fights (ok male bird fights!!:) ) , animal testing etc. cruelty to animals will never stop, nobody really understands them as well as the animal lovers do.....and these people are not the animal lovers.....:(

[gonesnakee]

Heres another tidbit for everyone (XxRachxX). You ever hear of a "Branding Party"? They too are held every spring all across Canada & the U.S. All the calves are rounded up given their shots etc., males are casterated (UMMM Prairie Oysters, yep they eat em!), ear tags are put in & yes they are branded. Lots of big parties took place long before your trip to Micky D's or the shoe store. I for one wouldn't feel too happy about being roped, hogtied & held down to be casterated/branded without any sedatives (or at all for that matter! lol) but it happens always every year. Not to mention how many Cattle, Sheep, Pigs, Chickens etc. that are subjected to horrible cruelties as they are slaughtered daily for us all. Take a trip to a slaughter house & you'll think twice about BBQing tonight. Mark I.
P.S. I might as well mention all you folks that feed live prey as well, nothing like being eaten alive while ya suffer.

[XxRachxX]

well i was not aware of those "branding parties"......ooh i take back everything i wrote in that message then!
as this probably doesnt happen in the uk, or it hasnt been publicised then i wouldnt know about it...so i wouldnt exactly be able to discuss branding parties and other sick stuff that happens over there....
as long as people eat meat, slaughter house cruelty is going to happen! as long as people are here....cruelty is going to happen.
is it me or is a party made out of anything over there??

[gonesnakee]

Sad but true eh Rach! I hate posting for the "dark side" but all points must be made & acknowledged. A lot of people are in the dark & like I've stated before we are all hypocrits, DOH! Mark I.

[JD@reptiles]

I saw that show. i was sick to my stomic whatching them empty hybernation dens and filling them with gas. i think if i went there. would go crazy and slap everyone and run away :D:D:D hehehe. or i would get a job at that snake n chip stand and poison all the food! meh that might be going to far!

[Thomas]

I've got a snake video with it on and it makes me sick. But theres this one guy who gets bitten by one whilst in the middle of killing a relative, and when I saw that happen I cheered.

>evil<

[Aqua_Elf]

Okay, I have read all of your responses and such forth and think that anyone that has never personaly been to one needs not comment. The docs you watch on T.V. make it for worse then it truly is. I'm not supporting it but its just not as badd you people make it seem.
1. they dont torture the animals, I've worked at them have frinds and family that work/run them.
2. eating them skinning them and what not else do with the dead bodies is no worse then eating meat, or wearing leather/fur.
3. the snakes are milked and their venom is used for antivenom making and medical research.
4. the whole point of the show is to educate people on saftey around the animals.
5. the thing has been going on for so long if it stopped there would be a horrible growth in the population of rattlers causing many mnore bites. I live in west texas where rattlers are a very real threat and danger. Despite what anyone sais they are the only agressive snake I know of and yes I do hvae first hand experince with this which is probly why I dont like them very much. I know what your all thinking" hes stupid its not the snakes fault its the humans"" bann him now" Well I know there are rules and such but trust me they dont help alot with the population as it is now I see at least one a day. They crawl into peoples yards, say their 2 year old palying in the yard come across a snake doest know what to do. KABOOM, bite the kid most likely dies becuase of age and the fact that theres only about 5-6 hospitails in wets texas that caryy antivenom not to mention the kid probly lives int he country and it takes to long to get him there. Rattlesnakes are considered badd here and they cause alot of problems, I'm not saying go kill them all and I'm deffinatly not supporting the rattlesnake roundup as I hate them and would like them shut down.[now] But alot of you are here saying its so horrible when you support thing much worse everday!!! Think about the mice and rats you feed your snakes and the people that feed live dont have a single right to post here!!! Bottom line rattlesnake roundups are badd but not as badd as some might think and serios thought would have to be taken before they are shutdown+ it would never happen in texas, at least not in the near future. I have almost been bitten, and several of my friends have been.

[Zoe]

Aqua - He was asking for our opinions, and we have a right to give them. Saying we can't give our opinions just because we haven't been to one isn't very open minded.

I too think they are awful.

1. So being stressed beyong belief isn't torture? How about those "grab the most rattlers in 30 seconds as you can and stuff them into a bag while a bunch of hicks watch and stamp their feet and yell and shout?" Being skinned alive? Or how about pinned down before having your head chopped off?

2. I have nothing against eating snakes, provided they are killed humanely. While I could never do it myself, it would be hipocritical for a non-vegan or non-vegetarian to be against eating snakes.

3. So? You don't have to pull them out of the wild, stress them, milk them, then chop their heads off.

4. The point of the show is to excite people, by seeing venomous snakes being handled (and later, killed).

5. Granted, the population cannot be allowed to increase to impossible numbers. But there are better ways of controling animal populations than this!

I have kept mice and do keep rats. I DONT breed my rats in the wild, go chase them and snatch them up, toss them around, show them to yelling kids and clapping adults, pin them down, grab them, skin them alive or decapitate them. No. My rodents live good, painfree lives before they are killed HUMANELY.

And rattlers don't seek out 2 year olds and bite them for the heck of it. A rattler doesn't think like "Hey! Theres an unsuspecting baby, I think I'm going to bite it." Heck no. If the kid grabs it or steps on it, THEN it will bite, and it's up to the parent to educate and supervise the kids. Anyone, anywhere could let a kid run around, the kid would go pet a nice doggy, and the dog could easily kill the kid. And we all know how many dogs exist in populated areas, and the fact that dogs kill WAY more people than snakes do.

Zoe


Thomas -- I hear ya! That's like me when I'm happy when matadores get gored. I just hate it that they rarely die, they deserve to.

[RachelS.]

I haven't really read this thread or any of the posts, but all I can say is I would never support any rattlesnake roundups!! We have them all over the state, and they are a very disturbing and disgusting site :(

[Aqua_Elf]

Have you been to one of these awful shows, all I said that if you havet been to one then you dont know what happens so you dont have a right to say their horrible you can say I've heard their horrible and these are my opnions based upon that but saying studd without knowing is not right. Also I hate the thing, and I hate the way the animals are collected but thats life, they are seldomly are skined alive. The point of the show is not to excite at all it is to educate they just dont do it right. Also they dont play a game where they stuff them in bags, IO have been to the biggest one in the states every year since I can remember and this never happens I also go to the one in the town I live in which is rather large and have never witnessed this. I know the ratlelrs dont hunt the kids but [even though science sais this is not true] I have seen and heard snakes not run from a predotor they turn and fight and and when it tries to back down the snake dont. I cant blame the snake for this that nature but its saying rattle snakes are mean!!! LIsten to this it is a tue story, I was nne I was playing at my granmas house int he yard I went to pick something up i did but when I drew back i saw something flash across my eyes then i heard rallting I knew what it was and reflexis made me jump back[I know the rule is to stay still but I couldt] then the snake struck again his teeth almost hit my lower knee I lived only because I jumped back I would have died becuase it would have taken hours and hours to get to a could hospital.

[reverendsterlin]

I live just north of El Paso, rattlesnakes are not bad in this area the very much do their share to control the rodent populations, the El Paso, Las Cruces, Tucson, and Phenoix (sp?) hospitals all carry antivenin with the only hard time really being during the switch from wyeth to crofab late last year and early this year to the best of my knowledge. Almost all evenomations occur with us in their territory and most even with children allow a wide time for treatment but with tissue damage increasing significantly the longer the delay. I think I've heard that more people are killed every year by donkeys than by Crots and I don't see any plexi paperweights with donkey heads in them or donkey hoof ashtrays. If you and your friends don't want to be bit stay the hell away from them. Round-ups are simple capitalism, you and your family making bucks without investing the capital to produce your own I breed both molossus and atrox, kind of like cattle rustling from the publics herd for simple greed. Do you have any idea what rattlers are protected species and how to indentify them, do all the collectors also know, are all the stupid destructive toxins you pour into the dens (permanantly desroying them) approved by the state and manufactures for the purpose your using them for. Is liquor banned at these events and among participants, or does the possibility of some drunk getting bit get ignored while we're supposed to swallow some whine about getting almost bit. Get off it, it's no better than the murder of baby seal for their fur by another bunch of money grubbers, do you have a real job? If so then you don't need the round-up money anyway.

[Aqua_Elf]

I live deeper into the state in the permian basin if you know where that is. I DO NOIT SUPPORT THE RATTLESNAKE ROUNDUP I just think you people need to give closer thought to the subject like I said doc make it really more worse then it is.

[Zoe]

Aqua - well you have fun attending the amazingly awesome rattler roundups which you claim to hate yet also claim to attend every year.

I've heard about them, seen videos of them, and I am allowed to comment on them. THATS the point of free speech. If I said "The moon in hot pink and its made out of horse feathers" would you agree with me, jsut because you actually haven't been to the moon yourself?

And YES, they do have timed rattler snake catching. While it may not happen at every single roundup (because you've been to so many, you'd know which have them and whihc don't. ) I've seen it being done. A couple broken snake backs, and the rest terrified. The guy got bit tho, YES!

I would never go to one of those. ever.

[Zoe]

So you're saying that what REALLY happens at these things, is they take a few different species of captive-bred rattlers, an experienced snake keeper shows them to an attentive student or snake-lover audience, telling them about the different kinds of snakes and why rattlers are treasures and should never be killed?

Zoe

[reverendsterlin]

not to mention 2 things, snakes released off of their home range have very low survival rates, and a rattler overload is impossible in the southwest the snakes natural prey does not exsist in large enough numbers to support any great increase in rattler population, if double the population of rattlers survive one years the number of prey surviving will in a large population reduce by that amount creating a vicious circle the keeps natural populations under control, mostly man and his accompaning animals like rats, cattle, cats, dogs, and many others that do and are expected to survive even when exceeding the lands ability to support them. GGGrrrr, deep calming breathes, OM Mani Pani lol

[Aqua_Elf]

I'm saying that I go to them becuase my family works them DUH!!! Yes, an experienced snake handler does show the handlers how to handle the snakes even though very few are even aloud to hold the snakes that are not membres of the show. The docs you see on T.V. are edited and make it worse then it really is If you dont beleive me I oblige you come visit me and Ill take you to one. I use to enjoy very much going to these things, now I hate them becuase of the deth of the animals. I never said they use CB snakes they get them from the wild. But when you get paid $60 a pound for rattlers, all the phycos go and get them selfs one. I also resewnt the hicks remarks very few hicks even attend these shows,

[Zoe]

And I resent you obligating me to go see innocent, beautiful creatures get slaughtered for the entertainment of fools.

If you hate them so much why are you defending one?

So it's havard graduates that attend these things? Heck no, it's families who know nothing about snakes and just like to see "them big poisonous fanged rattlers" getting slaughtered in such great number, after having been through awful, stressful ordeals.

Anyway, I don't think this is going anywhere so this'll be my last post (before I get real riled up). I doubt I'll change your mind, but I do find it very sad that you condone the slaughter of these snakes. Hopefully someday humanity will get past some cheap thrills.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Its all about the money...Also. Documetries show what's going on.. Edited or not it's what's going on there.. Simple as.

[Aqua_Elf]

NO but its no hicks like you say and maybe there been some harvard grads there how would you know youve never been. I'm defending it because people that dont even know whats going on are posting things that are'nt true and then go and eat a hamburger and put on their leather jacket!!! You are a hypocrit not saying I am not but I dont eat meat or wear leather. But high society reings over these roundups how do you think they have stayed up and running for so long? Politics are a horrible sport second only to boxing but that is a diffrient story. Why must we argue we both agree these things are horrible I just know a little more about the actual things that happen then you do which is obvios as to you've never been. If these games where people stuff snakes in bags to exist they are very rare and dont occur in big shows where the head honchoes are present they would never stand for it. THose shows on T.V. only show the supposed badd things about the shows and probly dont even show the actual presentation put on by the roundups to educate the public about safety. If you refuse to witnes thishorrible "injustice" then I dont think you should post about you just dont know what happening next time theres on in town I will record the ENTIRE thing and send a copy to you and I will show it on a site where every member can watch the whole show not just the "evil" part but the good part to and the educational part.

[Aqua_Elf]

Also reverend, exaclty what you said the enviroment wouldt/couldt stand all those snakes they woudlt die but first they would search for food and snakes can live awhile without it. THey would go to urban areas which would cause a major increase in bites. To stop the shows it would take years of decreasing the amount of snakes taken untilt he enviroment could hold them. I agree with krocguy its all about the money.

[Zoe]

I know I said I wasn't going to reply but this is just nonsensical!

Politics and boxing arent the same as slaughtering snakes! Boxers enter into a contract that states that they agree to fighting and possibly getting seriously hurt. I don't even know what politics has to do with anything.

I'm defending it because people that dont even know whats going on are posting things that are'nt true and then go and eat a hamburger and put on their leather jacket!!!

So you hate roundups because you think they are awful, but you are defending them because they aren't really that bad??

It's been stated that no one here is against the actual eating of snake meat. That would be hypocritical, yes. I eat meat, but I wouldn't stand for cows being chased and killed horribly for my enjoyment.

If these games where people stuff snakes in bags to exist they are very rare and dont occur in big shows where the head honchoes are present

The innocent/educational (uhuh) part of rattlesnake roundups I'm sure no one would have a problem with. But what is shown in documentaries (yes, I know they are biased) have actually happened (they didnt stage something awful just to stop roundups), and that's what everyone here is against. We are against the way they are caught, the way they are treated and the way they are killed.

I don't refuse to witness it, but I'm not going to go to texas just so I can see animal cruelty and slaughter.

Nature has a way of balancing itself. Otherwise the whole world would be overrun by rattlers, right? I'll give you an example. A while ago (50-some years I believe) there was a big coyote scare. Everyone hated them and wanted them dead. So they killed almost all of them. What happened that year? They were overrun with rabbits!! Which made is easier for the remaining coyotes to get all the food they needed and reproduce. A few years later there werent enough rabbits for that many coyotes and many died, and balance between prey and predator was found again.

Zoe

[Aqua_Elf]

Hello duh polotics is involved because the people that run the whole society club whatever you want to call it are in polotics their governors congressmen/women such forth tahst why its still running they cant pass laws to stop it. I meant by boxing and polotics is that their dangerous things murder, consperisy runs rampid in both which is unrelated which is why its another story.
I'm defending it because its not as badd as you people think it is and becuase its a way of life for some shutting it down would be like shutting down a circuses all the people wouldt have jobs anymnore.
Oh yah one problem the whole coyote thing is still a problem to coyotes are still a big problem here at least. In fact we have a huge pack that lives inside the city. Freaky right but that a diffrient story and kind of funny and not as scary as it might sound.
The point is they are badd very badd but not as badd as people think and you can JUST shut them down that woudlt be fair or right. Yes, I know neighter is the killing of the snakes but thats just how it is. We all want it to be stopped but it wouldt be so easy as 1-2-3 so we have to deal with it till it changes.

[Zoe]

but thats just how it is

Could you imagine how the world would be be if everyone thought that way? There'd still be so much racism, slavery, torture (human torture), fascism. who knows what else.

You can't just accept something because it's a way of life. If negros had said "yes, i'm a slave, I get starved and beaten every day by a white man. but hey, thats life!", things would be awful today. Stuff doesn't change on it's own.

Hello duh polotics is involved because the people that run the whole society club whatever you want to call it are in polotics their governors congressmen/women such forth tahst why its still running they cant pass laws to stop it. I meant by boxing and polotics is that their dangerous things murder, consperisy runs rampid in both which is unrelated which is why its another story.
I still don't see the relevance, but it does go to show how unbelievably messed up humanity is. It makes me sick sometimes :(.

we have to deal with it till it changes.
It never will change if we just accept it. Yes it might take a while to make things change, but it's people like those on this site (well, cept you <- i dont mean that in a mean way) who will make life better for these snakes in the future.

Zoe

[Aqua_Elf]

Well then dont accept it some one do something, I dont see you on your way to washington. I accept it because it part of my everyday life nad I would never betray my family and friends which I would be doing if I was to stop it but if you wnat stop. Somone stop it I encourage you to soemone go now do it. Since you still dont see the revlance here. A congresman's son is a member of the roundup society. A bill comes up making it illegal for the roundups to exist that congressman is not going to vote for the bill, Or somethin to that effect.

[Zoe]

Ahh okay, I see what you mean about politics. I thought you were refering so some sort of cruelty. What about the boxing, though?

Yeah, you don't see me on my way to washington. Hmm why could that be? 1. Its 11:30 at night. 2. I can't afford the plane ticket 3. i'm 17 and would never go to such a city alone 4. I have SCHOOL. 5. I have WORK

Of course I do plan on doing something about it in the future. Right now all I can do it voice my concerns and objections.

Just so you know, I would "betray" anyone in my family who did something like that. Thankfully all my family are animal lovers :) Even my grandmother (who hates my snakes) respects snakes in the wild and would never hurt one (she'd be too scared lol), and my grandfather got real mad when a guy who was golfing with him killed a snake with his golf club :D.

Zoe

[stevesemerko]

In Canada we have the massassauga rattler and we used to have the timber rattler until people decided to go out and kill them. They extirpated the entire timber rattler popultation! The same thing is happening to the massassauga its numbers are very low. Rattlers are magnificant creatures, sure they POTENTIALLY deadly but that doesn't give people the right to take it upon themselves to play god. Dogs kill people but we don't have dog roundups. We have made it all this time living with rattlers and yes there are some deaths but a lot of the time it is just for defense. If some one was gonna step on you you would stop them by pushing them out of the way or something of that nature cause you don't want to get stepped on, well snakes don't have arms so the use the only things they can. The rattlesnake will give you a warning by rattling its tail and if you persist it will strike, so if you here the rattle and pursue then you deserve to get bitten.

[reverendsterlin]

heres a piece; http://www.apnm.org/waste_of_west/chapter4/page26.html

a little part: To eliminate rattlesnakes from the range, stockmen in the late 1800s began annual "rattlesnake roundups" in which local citizenry were enlisted in competitions to see who could bring in the most rattlers, dead or alive. In New Mexico, Texas, and Oklahoma today, ranchers still help organize rattlesnake roundups in which thousands of snakes are captured, mistreated, often tortured, and then killed. To drive snakes from their shelters and capture them, participants spray gasoline into thousands of underground holes and crevices, in the process killing many other animals, contaminating the soil, precluding denning and hibernating use by other animals, and polluting groundwater.

[reverendsterlin]

Aqua_Elf also says "3. the snakes are milked and their venom is used for antivenom making and medical research." keep your facts straight
Dr. Teresa Telecky, HSUS wildlife trade program director, outlines some of the report’s findings. “Rattlesnake roundups are patently inhumane, and they adversely affect ecosystems by removing an important animal from the ecosystem. Rattlesnakes play a central role in their ecosystems by preying on rodents and keeping their numbers in check and by being prey themselves for raptors and other animals.” She adds that because there are strict federal regulations for the collection of venom and because it degrades quickly, no U.S. producer of antivenin would knowingly purchase venom from rattlesnake roundups.

[Aqua_Elf]

They also sometimes set fields or big brush piles on fire and caoture the fleeing animals. THEres a bounty for coyotes and lots of other animals!!! I never said the fact that rattlers kill gives us a right to kill them, but it is our right to do so until somone gets an amendmant to the constitution!!!

[reverendsterlin]

so now you want to murder them just cause you can since it's not illegal? you don't seem to make much sense.

[reverendsterlin]

oh, and by the way, I grew up in Del Rio, and have been to the Sweetwater, Rocksprings, and Alamogordo roundups, cheered when Tom Moore was busted, and helped rescue his pit of animals

[Dozer]

Okay, heres my peice of mind.

First of all, DO NOT call these people red-necks aight...

Rattle snake rounds ups. Well, see, I'm not gonna take sides, but I'm gonna play the devils advocate aight. Look at it this way, dogs have fur, they are cute, cuddly , as well as cats and other "common" house hold pets. Sure, we are a small number of people who adore the reptilian species but hell, most of the world does not. Snakes are referred to as cold, nasty, evil and any other negative word possible. People hear stories of rattlers venom and all that bullshit how they kill everything that moves. etc.etc. That is somethin', although we try, will never be changed. This world is full of ignorant snobs and straight up, it will take a long time, if not forever, to change views. Of course the world will go nuts if people go around killin' puppies. Puppies show love, emotions blah blah blah, and they are cute and cuddley, lol. Majority of the people in this world expose little children to cute puppies to get their love for "nature" and pets. Not many, of the general public, show their kids snakes or many other reptiles. Sadly, thats how things are, and in the modern world, sorry to say people, but it aint gonna change.

Just to clarify, I'm not hatin' on no one. I like to see everyones views and I'm not justifyin' Rattler round ups, its just that, it happens and sure you can change a few peoples minds and all, but there will DEFINETLY be people still around doing what the do. Reality sucks, its just how it is. You gotta look at both viewpoints...

Just my 50 cent ;)

[Aqua_Elf]

No I've neevr said I want to do it I'm just saying that everyone in the states has the right to go kill them if they want and if you wannna cgange it go do it and stop wynign about it. I dont see nyoine here[with the exception of Samba] that is trying to change the law. The only thing I see wrong with the shows is the fact that their collected from the wild and that their killed btu if thiese were cabtive bred animasl that were bred for the simple pirpose to die no-one would care and if they do they should go and shut down all the ranchers, and butcher houses where the same thing happens to pigs, chickens, cows, and lots more. If I could I would stop the death of every animal nothign deserves to die for another species to prosper it not fair but again its just part of life something I have to deal with despite my ralleis and protest[which I have held].

[Aqua_Elf]

Also Thats BS you people need to learn not to beleive everything that people say theres lots of loopholes through that and I have witnessed venom being sold to medical companies, they dont have to sell it in the name of the roundup theres again lots of loopholes the same way ppl kill people for their organs an dsell it through the B. market somehow the organ end up in hospitals and ppls bodies. Dont beleive everythign you hear did you beleive clinton when he said he didt screw monica? LIke I said its twisted into the world of polotics which is curved and twisted and full of conspericy.

[RachelS.]

I still hate rattlesnake roundups you can't change that... you should stop trying to convince people they're not that bad. I've seen so much crap about roundups it's not even funny. Even the zoo's all around the state don't support them because they're so cruel and sickening.

[Aqua_Elf]

I'm not trying to convince anythign I'm just saying that people that dont know what really happen shouldt say or insinutate they do and that the roundups are god in their own ways. Also that all these people are talking about how horrible they are and not oing anything about it which in my onpnion is just has badd thats like watching a murder then not doing anything which is illegal[ accomplich to murder]. I am a hyocrit i never said I was't. THeir badd yes but it wouldt be as simple as some think to stop them and its would effect people that dont deserve or want to be in this fight.

[Aqua_Elf]

Okay maybe I am trying to convince things but thats not a crime everyone else is trying to convince to!!!

[RachelS.]

just stop wasting your time, okay :)

[Aqua_Elf]

I dont have to, what does it matter to you? I stoped posting then people kept on tryng to argue with me. I cant control myself!!!

[krrc]

I have an idea lets go kill dogs, round them up from the kennels and after we do a good presentation on how we should respect dogs lets skin them or chop off their heads. "well how bout that? sound like a rip roarin' gooood time to me! yup.." ........................

[Aqua_Elf]

I know of a few people that would show up, give me the time and place and I'll pass it around. Though I dont think I will be able to show up blood makes me queasy!!!

[BWSmith]

all these people are talking about how horrible they are and not oing anything about it

Know your audience. Just for the record, some of us DO actively work against them. I have rescued Diamondbacks from them. I have had them call me to pickup rattlesnakes. I have talked to coordinators about viable alternatives. Work is being done. Many have been stopped here in Georgia.

[Aqua_Elf]

Okay then I admit that was rash and some of you do actively take part in saving the snakes. But the majority don't, I know the roundups are horrible but alot of you made rash comments withoput taking in to considertaion what actually would happen if the roundup[at least here] were shut down. BUT I HATE THEM THE SAME!!!

[BWSmith]

And some of us have been around the block a few times. Not everyone here is just a keeper of a couple snakes. Many of us are the "old timers" and are very active in many facets of herpetology and conservation.

There are many rammifications to ending each roundup, both financial and tradition. But they has been ended, and will continue to be ended.

But if people REALLY want to help stop them, hit the sponsors, not the roundup! Send letters to the sponsors, they are the money behind it. As long as these fuel the economy of these small towns, they will continue to be. Federal compensasion has to be given to them. And they are more likely to bargain with the feds if they are losing sponsors.

[tegulishious]

branding parties really arnt that bad.
branding cattle is all part of the ranching business. Though there are some that dont, when you own a large ranch in the middle of no where , there are scumbags that go in and steal cattle, and its a lil insurance for some ranchers. as for being hogtied. well, tryin holding a calf and branding it.. lets see how well you do. its no easier than tattooing id's on your dog . a lot of people are doing that now a days.

[Burium]

As for the whole dog round-up thing. It does happen to a degree in Spain. They breed dogs similar to greyhounds for hunting. Train them, and then after hunting season, they are strung up on trees, skinned and left to die. Pleasant, huh? Any way, my point is that we are human. As humans we do many horrible things. Not just to aminals, but to each other. I agree something needs to be done, but I believe it needs to start with the human race. How can we be expected to treat animals fairly and humanely when we can't even do that with our own species? Just my thoughts.

Kelly

[Crotalus75]

"3. the snakes are milked and their venom is used for antivenom making and medical research."

If this hasn't already been said..........What academic, medical or corporate buyer in their right mind would purchase venom from a rattlesnake roundup? This is not professional grade venom and it is only milked to produce a "show" and give the public the perception that something positive is coming from these foul events.

[BWSmith]

You are correct Tad. But they still glorify the milking during the show. You should have heard some of the lies spewing from the milker.