Weight Loss in Leo

[Samba]

Hey guys,

If you remember my thread, 'Tapeworms!' you may recall my beloved Darwin was diagnosed with tapeworms approximately 10 days ago. My vet recommended 'Panacur' to deworm him. I have faithfully administered the medicine, depsite his dislike of the taste and ability to spit it out, I have made sure he recieved the doses needed.

Here's my problem: Darwin has suffered signifigant weight loss since his vet appointment, despite the fact I have been syringe-feeding him baby food (mixed with 'Enteral Insectivore'), hand-feeding him mealworms and waxworms and the like. No matter what I do his weight decreases. I was wondering if this is the effect of the worms (that are supposed to have been killed off by now), or a result of the medicine. Or could it be something my vet didn't catch?

Darwin is still young, at 5 years of age. When I got him he was about 45 grams, a little underweight but healthy (or at least I thought). For awhile he ballooned up to 60 grams or so, and in the last 3 weeks he's back to around 45 grams or so. Probably less. It seems like he loses weight everyday! Sometimes when I check in on him he looks thinner than he did a few hours before. I am really struggling to figure out what's going on...

I've called my vet and questioned him about this... he seems to think this is normal (?) I have to bring in a new fecal now to make sure the parasites are gone, but obtaining one will be difficult. He has no appetite, and really, really dislikes being 'assist-fed'. I've had Darwin for about 8 months now, and he was never really problematic until recently.

If anyone has been through a similar situation, or has ideas or suggestions please help me. I'm really starting to get scared, and I don't want to lose him...

Thanks in advance...

[Alicewave]

It could be that Panacur is not effective on the type of worms he has. I'd get a second opinion if I were you.

How much of the formula are you getting into him? If you're getting at least 1 cc per day in him then you're probably not treating the right type of worm. If you're not feeding him that much of it, maybe try feeding him more of it.

[Samba]

Meg... My vet has recommended .20 Cc per day for ten days. I'm really getting scared... for the first time I'm wondering if my vet cares at all? I've been pumpin' this lizard full of good stuff, live bugs and baby food and eh, it's frustrating to not see any progress.

Also, I was wondering if I should deworm my female albino (Girl)with the leftover Panacur? My vet said I could, and recommended it since she was housed with Darwin a few months ago. However, she looks great and doesn't to seem to have any problems (don't fix it if it ain't broken, right?)

I want to get a second opinion as soon as possible, as of yet I haven't received my disability check... GRRRRR

Thanks for the support, I will update soon... =(

[drewlowe]

Samba i'm experiencing the same exact thing as you with my melanistic leo she started to show signs of improvement for a few weeks now it's down again i try to feed her waxworms (which is the onlything she will voluntaly take) But they go through her almost undigested. So i have started back up with the force feeding which she fights me every step of the way. I have also contacted my vet and he said the appeitie loss is normal from use of panacur.

I am going out on a limb here but i'm going to be trying this stuff called parazap. I have been battling with worms for 5 months now and i don't know what else to do cause any meds the vet gives her hasn't worked and i couldn't tell you how many times she has been seen (by the way she has roundworms). i had 7 in my colony that had got worms and all have bounced back to perfect health except for her. I am ordering parazap today and hope to get it in early next week. If you would like i will tell you if it has helped or not. This is my last resort everything else i have tried has failed. I cant take watching her suffer anylonger she has dwindled down to hardly anything. If this doesn't work i have no choice but to but her to sleep. (even though i don't want to cause she is my first reptile)

If you would like to check it out for yourself instead of waiting for my results the website is www.parazap.com Good luck with yours i hope all goes well.

[drewlowe]

i would treat the other gecko also because it can spread very easy. but beware of loss of appetite.

[Alicewave]

samba: .2 cc of panacur or of enteral insectivore? i dunno about panacur dosage but enteral you want to feed at least 1cc.

[Samba]

Ok, I have called the vet's office. Wasn't able to speak with Darwin's doctor, but they will keep me on the 'list' so as soon as I get my check I can take him in. After posting the first time I went in to feed Darwin.

He ate 1 waxworm, and I had to fight to get him to swallow the damn thing. I let him rest for awhile and then I went back in and mixed some baby food (Chicken and Apples... only thing with chicken at the store), 'Enteral Insectivore and these 'flies' (they came in a can supposedly for leopard geckos, but no one will eat them). I ust threw them in the mix for added nutrition (and they are small enough to pass through the syringe).

Darwin ate (and I assume voluntarily because he licked the syringe) about 1/4 tsp of this mix.

Darwin's weight 10 days ago was 39 1/2 grams (he was weighed by the vet). I'm guessing now it's less then that.

I don't know what to do....it's incredibly frustrating to see him losing weight after I work so hard to feed him twice a day. The last two days though he has actually eaten 2 mealworms and 2 waxworms. I know it isn't much, but this is his first solid food for about two and a half weeks. He appears to digest ok, but his stools are always runny (you know, the liquid diet). I'm hoping things will get better and I won't have to put him down.

Funny thing is, I originally separated Darwin from Girl (the albino) because she was small and skinny. Now she's a fat little pig, and Darwin is the once I'm concerned about... I'm going to hold off on treating her because I don't want to compromise her weight. Since Darwin is ill, Girl will be bred to another male (owned by a friend) on July 1rst.

Please inform me on how the new med works out for you and your gecko, obviously this is of great interest to me!

Thanks again, both of you!

[Blazin]

Just wanted to let you know there is a very informative article in the August Reptiles magazine on Pin worms. You should read it.

[drewlowe]

Yes blazin i have read that article. It was very infomative. But right now samba is battling tapeworms and i am battling roundworms. They are different from pin worms.

[Samba]

Yes, I actually subscribe to Reptiles Magazine. I have read the article, and it even states that in most cases pin worms aren't that big a deal. (It also goes on to include that pin worms are primarily an herbivorous parasite). Thanks anyways.

If anyone else can offer advice, please do. I am trying to support him the best I can, but you have ideas I haven't tried please feel free to inform me. These tapeworms are nasty... my little Darwin is literally starving to death... =(

[drewlowe]

yep same here too loki has round worms though.

Samba if i find something that works i will let you know as soon as possible!!! That parazap should be in either sat. or monday i plan on giving her some asap when it arrives. I'll be sure to let you know how it is working if you would like i will send you daily pms on how she is doing just let me know either way.

[Linds]

On an unrelated note...

I would strongly suggest getting a fecal done on Girl before putting her in with any other leos, regardless of whether or not you choose to treat her :)

[Alicewave]

That's related and excellent advice. :)

[Samba]

Thanks Linds... Funny you said that because I collected a sample from Girl yesturday and turned it in. I took all three Leos with me to the vet for their annual check-ups (that's how I discovered Darwin had tapeworms). However, Girl is getting another fecal done before breeding, as is her temporary mate.

Now an update... Yesturday I looked around online and found a piece of information I am going to take to my vet. It relates to tapeworms and Leos specifically. I'd like to post it here to share with all of you.

"Tapeworms

Tapeworms tend to be more common in those reptiles that eat fish or amphibians, and not overly common in leopard geckos. Tapeworms have an indirect lifecycle requirean intermediate host (such as a feeder insect), and is not easily spread. A leopard gecko that ingests an insect harboring the parasite, can develop tapeworms.

Common Symptoms:

When present in low loads, there are usually no overt signs or a problems. In higher loads however, one may see:

1.) Decrease in appetite and weight loss.
2.) Inflammation and swelling.
3.) Actual lesions that may become infected.

Diagnostic Methods:

There are several different techniques available to your veterinarian to help determine the possible presence of tapeworms. These could include:

1.) Complete physical examination.
2.) Detailed patient history and overview of husbandry.
3.) Fecal exams - seeing the ova (eggs) in a fecal floatation or even in a smear.
4.) Seeing a tapeworm in an excreted stool.
5.) Seeing small rice-like pieces (proglottids) of the tapeworm in the stool.

Treatment Options:

Common treatment options include the surgical removal of tapeworms and/or the use of Praziquantel.

Praziquantel is also refered to as Droncit and can be administered PO (orally) or IM (intramuscularly). The gecko is usually dosed again in 2 and possible again in 4 weeks.

~~> When dealing with medical problems such as tapeworms, proper personal hygiene, quarentine and disinfection techniques are absolutely necessary. Treating the gecko alone without treating the environment will NOT eliminate the problem!"

That came from: http://www.drgecko.com/cestodes.htm

Not sure if you guys ever visit that site, but I always find it interesting. I am taking this to my vet in the hopes he will treat my Darwin with this medicine instead of the Panacur, which I am finding may have been worthless.

I will keep you guys updated soon! Thanks again, I really appreicate all the advice and info you have lent. Much thanks!

[Samba]

Okay... I called the vet's office. They do have Droncit, but they only have the oral (pills). The person I spoke with said that 1 pill crushed and divided into three equal parts should be enough to eradicate the tapeworms.

We have estimated Darwin's weight at this point to be a sickening 35 grams. (eh) I was wondering if you guys thought this dosage sounds appropriate. I haven't found any oral Droncit doesage information online for an animal this small. I will be picking up this pill in about an hour and a half... so if you can reply before then please do! I will update again later...

[Alicewave]

are you supposed to administer 1/3 of a pill each day for three days? If so you might wan't to split even the 3rds up by half so you administer smaller doses twice a day. That way if he has a bad reaction you can tell before you have given him too much medicine. Does that make sense? 35 grams isn't THAT bad. Aurora was 8 grams at 6 months old when I rescued her and she turned around beautifully. I hope that gives you some hope at least. :) Good luck!

[Samba]

Thanks, Meg. The recommended dosing we'll be doing is 1/3 of the pill every two weeks... does that sound too far apart? It does to me but I suppose the doc knows best.

It's kind of humiliating knowing that I rescue other people's reptiles; now I'm trying to save my own...

Darwin's weight a few months ago was 50+ grams... he's lost almost half od his body weight! I can't believe these tapeworms can turn a young, healthy beautiful gecko into a withering, lifeless thing so soon...

Watching him struggle is the hardest part, but we'll fight this thing all the way. One other thing I noticed today: When I approached his tank it smelled like DEATH. I thought he had died overnight until I got the courage to lift his hide. He's still alive, but where on earth did that stench come from? Maybe my fear of him being dead made me smell phantom scents...

I am going to pick up that pill... I'll let you guys know how it goes...

Thanks Again!

[Grant vg]

samba,

Unfortunately Doctors dont always know best. not even in humans, and especially not in reptiles....

Now the only Droncit pills i know of have a concentration of 250mg of the active ingredient which is Praziquantel and one pill can worm a 14lb reptile!!!!
Sooooo...... i would think that a 1/3 of that pill every two weeks would OD your 35 g animal VERY quickly.
The dosage for reptiles of praziquantel is 20-30mg PER kg administered orally once BUT i always do it twice on my snakes.
20-30 mg/kg, in theory, is dosageing at 100% to kill all Cestodes (tapeworms) in one shot. The second dosage AFTER 2 weeks is usually just a backup treatment to kill any ones that may have survived.
and the two weeks is usually when the reptile is safe to take another dosage.

Now assuming that you are recieving the same amount of praziquantel in the pills i have. 1/3 of that pill, sounds like a little much for a 35gram leo for each dosage.
35 gram leo = 0.035 kg leo.
dosage is 20-30mg/kg
in my droncit pills 1/3 is like 80mg, which means, 1/3 can worm a 3-4 kg reptile (thats like 8 lbs!!!!!!!) . hardly a 0.035kg leopard gecko with declining health.

Droncit is said to be able to overdose at 5 times the reccomended dosage before signs of any ill-effect.
But one must take into consideration the health of the animal.
My minds a wreck right now, but i would think, if you have a 0.035 kg animal, then by multiplying 0.035 x 20 and 30 mgs that would give you the proper dosage.
.7 - 1 mg/0.035 kgs of weight. Hardly what i would cal 1/3 of any pill. that would mean i would have to divide my pills up into 250 parts to safely worm that leo.

anyways, perhaps your vet has a plll of lower concentration. you should definately find that out before administering anything. And also find out what your vets reccomended dosage is in numbers rather then fractions of a pill . just to be on the sae side.

Goodluck!
Let me know how it goes.

Grant vg

[Grant vg]

Also, fenbendazole (panacur) is for hepatic, round, lung , and hook worms.
Ive never read or heard of any vet book reccomending panacur for Tapeworms.
This boggles my mind why your vet would originally reccomend and administer it to your leopard gecko , especially since they are such small and sensitive reptiles.
Id scrap the whole vets advice personally. although i as well as most ppl on this site are not vets. Sounds like most of us have had more experience treating reptiles then your vet. A simple search on the net would come up with numerous pages with the proper dosage and treatment for your leos worms.

Sorry , just another rant about bad vets... :)

Gvg

[Grant vg]

also ,

Any type of worming will usually thoroughly flush out your lizards system, most likely the cause for your leos weight loss...

Has it been defecating alot? perhaps that is the reason for the "death" smell you are smelling?

gvg

[Samba]

Thanks, Grant. Since I am unable to contact you at this point, I will hold off on dosing Darwin. Now I am so confused it's crazy. I will be contacting my vet to find out the concentration of the pill he gave me. I definately don't want to overdose Darwin, not only is he a precious pet and valued breeder, he was also a b-day gift from my boyfriend last year.

Yes, as a matter of fact, Darwin does deficate a lot. (Probably because I won't relent in pumping him full of food). I clean he tank almost daily now. His stools are runny, as mentioned before (due to the 'liquid diet').

If anyone can help me with my Darwin please feel free to e-mail at: SambasReptileRescue@Hotmail.Com or leave a message, I am checking this site every 45 minutes or so.

Thanks again!

[Alicewave]

Wow, I'm glad someone who has some semblance of what to do about this finally jumped in. Thanks grant! Samba I want to wish you the best of luck again finding the right dosage and treating Darwin. My thoughts are with him.

[Samba]

Thanks, Meg. Well, I am going to let Darwin be for the night. I fed him twice today (he regurg. the first time), it appears that he has kept he second feeding down. I swear he gets smaller everyday.

Grant... if you could reply please before tomorrow morning I would appreciate it. My e-mail is above incase I'm not on this site anymore.

Thanks for all your help and advice, both of you.
I will post again tomorrow...

[drewlowe]

Samba that parazap should be in saturday or sunday. I'll let you know how that goes.

[Grant vg]

Samba emailed me, and i thought that it would be a good idea to discuss this whole issue on the forums...to get as much feedback as possible as i am not the most knowledgable on LEOs and it would be beneficial for all to have input and learn.

sambas question was...

"Can you explain to me how you use Droncit? My vet gave me a little vial with the crushed pill in some olive oil. There is very little liquid in the vial, so I am assuming the concentrations are higher..."

I use droncit in a pill.....depending on the weight of the animal , the dosage is usally standard for all reptiles. 20-30 mg's/kg.

Now i am not the most educated on ways to worm a lizard, especially of that size, (i usally stick the pill in a f/t rats a$$ ..lol)
And if anyone has any ideas on how, i would like to hear them.

my guess would be to dissolve the droncit amount in water and tube feed it. however, thats only my guess on how one would do it. and am unaware if there are better ways to do it.

Now if i was given a crushed pill in olive oil and was told to administer it to my animal, i would be questioning a few things.
first, why olive oil???
Not only is it a horrible solvent to dissolve the crushed droncit which can lead to inproper dosaging, but it will wash your leos system out even more then the panacur from before. ( i know cause my dog drank a 1/2 bottle of mineral oil last week!, what a mess!!!)
I would think that the olive oil will quickly dehydrate your leo even more then the wormer itself. (note: wormers really dehydrate your animal, so make sure theres lots of water around)

on top of all this, they never even gave you the amount of wormer they are suggesting you administer to your leo. 1/3 of a pill doesn't cut it when it comes to my animals.
i need to know proper dosages and weights and specific techniques and possible reactions or concerns before i administer ANYTHING!

I feel like time is an issue and your leos health is declining and i wish i could give you an answer that could solve all your problems right away but there sounds like such a lack of adequate communication from your vet, so all i can say is call your vet, ask what dosage (in numbers) she is recomending to you, did she weigh the dosage? if so what was it? (you would have to have quite a good scale to be weighing in the 1 mg vicinity. whats the concentration, why did she put it in olive oil? etc.. ask her everyhting and anything, as you have that right causethats what you have paid for. Dont just take her/his word for it. Let them know you want answers that can be backed up.
I would also try contacting someone who has used droncit on lizards before and get some feedback.

gvg

i will be browsing through a medical book i have and try to find some material on this subject. i will get back to you samba if i find something helpful.

[Samba]

Thanks, again! I am going to dose Darwin, if I wait any longer he might not survive. I will give him .20 Cc and see how he reacts. I hope it's not too late...

All this has made me wonder... would Darwin have been better off if he never saw the vet?

I am very distraught right now, so I can barely see the comp. well enough to type. I will update you guys.

Thanks for your help and support...

[drewlowe]

samba i just recieved parazap in the mail today. I'm getting ready to give loki her first dose of it. I will let you know how everything goes. I pray this works for loki cause she is basicly nothing right now.

Last night i tried to feed her some mealies and she aggressivly attacked them. So she is willing to eat. But they went through her system completely undigested.

I pray this parazap stuff works cause no meds the vet has given her has. I will update you on how it works.

[drewlowe]

Samba I gave loki some of that parazap yesturday around 5:00. 3 hours later she actually pooped a solid one. she hasn't done this in at least 4 months. She also already seems to be a little more active. she gets her second dose today. Hopefully i have the same results. Also i'm going to get her some mealies cause she has intrest in nothing else so far. Also when she would eat her meals would go undigested. But yesturday i feed her 3 mealies before giving her parazap. it actually was digested almost fully. if you want tocheck in to parazap here is a link. www.parazap.com

[Samba]

Thanks, Drew. Unfortunately that Parazap may have come too late for Darwin. I hope it really helps out Loki! At least your gecko is eating and interested in food! Keep me updated on his/her recovery!

I checked in on Darwin this morning after dosing and feeding him yesturday. His cage was a mess, looks like he vomited everywhere. I was able to identify very small stool excretions, but it appears that next to nothing made it through him.

He is skinny and weak; my eyes well whenever I see him. He squirms and squeaks when I attempt to feed him, almost making me think that I'm making this worse for him, instead of trying to do better. Then I see him open his eyes, and gingerly lick his lips after tasting a bit of baby food and I have a little hope. Some lizards have been much worse off than he is and made it... but right now I am not keeping my hopes up.

I can only pray that he makes it through the 4-6 week treatments. If I could only get rid of the worms he might have a chance. All I can do now is support him the best way I can: assist feedings, cage cleanings and administering of meds.

I am so depressed. =(

[Tim and Julie B]

Aw Samba. You're doing so much for him. I bet he knows it too. I have an albino female who just decided one day that she wasn't going to eat anymore. No parasites, just won't eat. I try and try, but nothing. She likes mealies but poops them out almost whole and smelly. She's got no fat reserves anymore, but she isn't too thin right now, just her tail really. I was so happy when she ate two kingworms yesterday, and kept them down, no poops yet so hopefully solid when she does. I did notice that she regurged the cricket she ate though. It's so sad to see them suffer, but doing all we can sometimes makes all the difference. I hope Darwin pulls through, even if things take a while. I just hope that my poor little Annie does too. Take care, and good luck.

[Tim and Julie B]

I just emailed about the parazap. I hope I can get it in Canada though. We'll see.

[drewlowe]

samba try to get that parazap. It's my last choice to try this stuff. Loki used to be a good 50 - 60 grams, now shes down to around 15- 20 grams. She is skin and bones right now. But that parazap seems to already be helping. she recieved her 2nd dose today and she ate 2 mealies already and i'm going to try to feed her 2-3 more tonight before bed. If you want samba i will send you a pic of how bad off she really is. I don't like to admit how bad off she is cause of two reasons 1. it looks like i don't know how to take care of my reptiles. 2. i hate knowing how sick she is and i try to help her but i also try to block it out cause i know i'm trying every thing i can to help her. and every time i think about it i want to cry.

anyway i would try that parazap. I think it may help cause in only 2 days i have noticed a change. I will continue to let you know how it works out. I know how i feel about loki and i know you care the same way about darwin. And if i can help i will try. I wish the best for you and darwin. good luck.

[Samba]

Drew,

I regret to inform you and everyone else that Darwin passed away this morning. When I approached his cage there was bloody stools and/or vomit in the 'defication' corner of his tank. He was particially out of his hide with his mouth gaping. His eyes were open but unresponsive. Of course I dived right in and picked him up. He was barely clinging to life and an hour later he passed away in my arms.

I am completely and totally distraught. I never thought that he would die. I thought I could trust my vet to treat him properly. I guess I am just being resentful because I have no blame to place on anyone. I did my part, my vet did his (not that he could have done better, though). Darwin is still gone. Forever.

In my agony, my brother tried to comfort me (of course, it had little effect). He suggested I sue my vet for malpractice (I didn't pay any mind... my brother is a wild person). After awhile I thought about it... If my vet had given the Droncit first, and not the Panacur, my Darwin might still be here. If Grant is correct, the dosage my vet prescribed for the Droncit probably OD'd him. I guess I will never know.

I am going to ask some collegues of mine for their opinions. I would like to have a necropsy performed, but I don't have $100's of dollars for that...

Thank you all for your advice, support and interest. I feel like I not only let myself and Darwin down, but you as well.

Drew- I really hope Loki recovers so you don't have to go through what I went through. This has been 3 weeks of hell and the pain is nowhere near letting up... Good luck with her, and make careful notes on her progress, etc. Perhaps one day you can use those notes for another cause, or research.

Again, thanks to everyone.

[drewlowe]

Samba i'm so sorry for your loss. There's no words i know that will make the pain go away, but my condolinces are with you. Please do not feel like you have let anyone down you have tried your hardest and that is the best that you can do.

[Samba]

Drew - thanks for your kind words. I'm still kinda in shock. Some vets I talked to said that they would recommend that I get a fecal re-done (I don't even want to ask how they'd do this on a deceased animal); there is stipulation as to wether Darwin ever had tapeworms. Secondly, I found a Dr. who would perform a necropsy for $20.00 - but that doesn't sound right, and I don't know if it would be worth it. On one hand I have closure, because I don't believe the worms killed him; on the other hand I figure what good would the information do me? Unless I am planning on action against my vet there's really no reason. Since I am undecided, I am keeping Darwin in the fridge for now. I'll have to make up my mind soon.

Thanks, again and keep me updated on Loki.

[drewlowe]

Samba, Personaly i would get the necropsy done. Just for a piece of mind. And if it wasn't the worms then at least you would know what from. also it would help you decide whether or not your vet was right or not, and maybe have you looking for a better vet. The way i look at it too, even though it is very sad this will give you a look into possible health problems leos can come across and help you understand them a little more.

The more personal experinces you deal with, the more you will learn.

I will let you know in a week or so how shes doing. i'm trying not to bother her unless i'm feeding or giving her that stuff. Also you may want to look into parazap just incase you need it in the future.

[Grant vg]

Samba,

i am sorry for your loss.
unfortunately are animals arn't made of steel and things life this happen.
Perhaps it was your vet, perhaps it was the worms, but the blame should definately not be put on you.
You did everything in your power to help your little guy.
The whole thing seems like it is your vets fault, but even smart vets cant cure every animal.
Perhaps file a complaint on your vet, its up to you. I would take the necropsy and see what comes up.
It can never hurt.

Goodluck in the future.

Gvg

[Dragon_Slave]

Samba,
I am SO sorry to hear about Darwin. I know that when my first bearded dragon died, I was soo distraught. However, my vet performed a necropsy for free, for her own knowledge as to why he died. I would recommend having the necropsy done, personally, to put your mind at ease. The vet and I did not know why my dragon passed, we thought he had some sort of calcium deficiency or something, but turns out, after she did the necropsy... he had birth defects and it could not be prevented. That made me sleep a lot better because there were no ''what if's''. I know that it's hard to lose a pet, but something that really helps is moving on. Get another pet, that's what I did.. and it has helped SO MUCH! Good luck.. Darwin is in my prayers.

[Alicewave]

So sorry for your loss Samba, I know you sure did everything you can. Definitely go for the necropsy for peace of mind. I think it's interesting that a it was suggested that he may never have had tapeworms. I think that's a really valid point because Darwin is the first case of tapeworms in a Leo I have heard of. Other types of parasites are pretty common but tape worms was a new one for me. I would definitely look into finding a new herp vet.
Maybe this link will help you find a new one:
http://www.arav.org/Members/NM.htm

[Samba]

Thank you all for your condolences. You know, people are starting to look at me funny because I'm crying over the loss of a gecko, but I don't care.

I think no matter what the necropsy results yield I am going to find another vet. Mine has never disappointed me until he seemed agitated and irritated with me. He promised to return phone calls three times and never did. I REQUIRE that my vet care about my animals as much as I do.

I have found another reptile specialist in my area, and she will be performing the necropsy (for $20.00? It's inexpensive... I wonder if I heard her right...) Even over the phone, and I know I talked her ear off about everything that happened, she was still patient and understanding with me. I haven't been to class in two days because of this mess, so I am going to take Darwin's precious little body to her and hopefully we'll know what killed him.

I've been searching around online, and I've only found a few, unspecific cases on Leos with tapeworms, the good thing is they (the geckos) appear to only become infected with them if they eat a prey animal or fecal matter which is infected with Tapeworms. The liklihood of my other geckos getting it is slim, but still possible.

I am preparing to disinfect Darwin's cage this morning, and would like some excellent cleaning tips. I am planning to keep it outside in the sun for a week or so after cleaning, just to be sure it's safe.

Again, thank you. This is a difficult time for me and your kind words make it a little easier. I will post soon to let you know when the necropsy is being performed and the results.

[Alicewave]

cleaning tips: You pretty much can't go wrong with this one BUT make sure not to mix them. Certain parasites are immune to certain chemicals so this double duty should take care of whatever he had. I would first do a bleach cleaning (10% bleach, the rest warm water). Make sure the bleach stays on for a couple minutes at least, then rinse with boiling water if you can. Leave it for a few days to air out. Then do the same thing substituting ammonia for bleach (ammonia is the only thing that kills crypto) but again make sure the chemicals are never mixed and rinsed well.

[Samba]

Thanks, Meg. I will do just that. Just to let you guys know, I took little Darwin's body to have the necropsy performed today. The vet will be getting back to me this evening or tomorrow. I'll probably start a new thread when I get the results because this one is getting to be pretty long. Thank you all for your help!