Reptiles, pets or collectors items?

[silkie]

Reptiles, Items of material value, or creatures of joy?

(I hope I dont sound like a downer, I am just looking for some thougts and ideas from our world of reptile lovers... please feel free to disagree with me...)

Its great that the art of keeping captive reptiles is spreading all over the nation. But at what cost??

Remember when you were a kid and the simplest frog or lizard would satisfy the soul? It sometimes seems that the reptile hobby is like a trading card game. It sometimes seems to be all about getting the rarest and the best, and having more.

I am not saying its terrible to own rare and exotic color morphs, because it is really cool to have them. But what I am getting at is do we care about the animal itself, or about their appearances? Do we care about what we actually do have, or about what we will and could have?

I am guilty. I have lots of animals. This made me ask myself, is it better to have 3 herps that I totally love, rather than 15 for the sake of having them??

When a new bearded dragon comes out, with awesome colors, should I sell my old one so I can have the new one? A kid would love the one they already have, because it is their bearded dragon, color doesn’t matter just the fact that it is their baby.

The thing that is so cool about the reptiles that we care for and keep is that not only are they exotic, but we can hold them, get to know them and connect with them, it is so AWESOME!!

Or maybe reptiles are just cool "ornamental" collectors items, nothing like a cat or dog that we can love or be attached too. Are reptiles just items that are to be collected and traded constantly... how often do you trade your dog or cat for another one? Why invest in something we wont cherrish till it dies? Maybe reptiles are different and are more objects than they are pets...

I am not trying to say that it’s bad to go for the latest and greatest, or to dream of the "complete" collection. I just think that it is important to have enough LOVE for all the animals we do keep, for what they are and not what they could be.

Peace to all!!

[Vanan]

Creature of joy fer sure!

[CyberGhost]

You have a great point, but I cant say if i agree or disagree with you. When I was younger a grass snake or a worm satisfied me. Now I have to have a rare color morph or anything and I feed worms to my herps. I love my herps, and I am very attached to them. But I do in some ways treat them like trading cards, as I think we all do. Damn you, you made me think about things I hate now I feel all sadd.

[Linds]

Friends. Family. I don't sell one, jsut to get another, there are snakes in my collection I am not into, but they are my babies, and will not sacrafice them so I can have more room to work on breeding species that I do have an avid interest in. I have only ever sold one snake, and I may have to sell another, but these are snakes that I have *just* aquired and something had come up... even though I hadn't formed an attachment, I still felt incredibly guilty for it. Offspring are a different matter, sure I would love to keep them all, but that isn't very realistic... hence I do not consider them part of my personal collection.

[SerpentLust]

All my pets, once I get them, I keep them. I get emotionally attached to every pet I own. Especially snakes. So for me at least, it's emotional joy.

Jenn

[Tim and Julie B]

I drawn a line right away if it is something I am getting with the intension of selling then that's that. But if I decide to keep something I will usually keep it unless it goes to one of my friends that I KNOW will give it a good home. But I have kept pretty much everything through the years. I absolutly hate people that flip flop on species and throw money around but never actually keep anything or manage to breed anything. Those people do it for the money. Not for the love of the animals and unfortunatly there are a lot of those people out there.
To address another good point you brought up. I love all herps from an anole to a retic. I hate people that I call reptile elitists. That hold there noses up on anything that doesn't have a high monatery value. Or people that say I don't like those, any idiot can breed them. Who cares do what you love and you will be much happier. Don't be all high and mighty and everyone else will be much happier also. If it costs a buck or a 1000 it is all part of this wonderful hobby!:D Tim.

[Lisa]

I'd have to say they're family for me. I don't have to have a fancy colour morph, although hard to keep species are an interest, just because the challange involved in raising them.

[drewlowe]

I would say the ones in my collection are my babies and thats the way i refer to them as my babies. The girls are my baby girls and my boys are my baby boys sept my bearded dragon boy hes my chunker lol. i would NEVER sell any of them ever and would be bawling like a baby if anything would ever happen to them. If you would ask my mom about my reptiles she would ask "which one of her babies are you refering to". As far as offspring goes sure i sell those but it's just like your cat or dog having babies are you going to keep all of them every time a new litter comes NO.

the only time i have kept a baby is my first leo female born ever, and a baby leo i hatched from a friends collection(he had a horseshoe pattern on his head i named him lucky charms), or if i have become seriously attatched to them. If i truely like the babies i will save them for family or close friends so i can go visit and play with them. Just like i had a favorite that hatched last year i named her butterfly cause it look like she had wings on her back i gave that one to my boyfriends little sister( which we have corrupted into liking reptiles as much as us) so i could see and play with her anytime i wanted. maybe i do get alittle to attached to them but they are my pets and i owe it to them to take the best care and love them as much as i can. and i do have a few morphs but that wasn't the only reason i bought them and i do plan on buying more ranges of color morphs but they like the rest will become part of a growing family.

Even if some people do trade for the newest morphs i'm sure they still have an old friend they hold onto.

[RachelS.]

Creatures of joy! That's all I can say... no if's, and's, or but's about it.

It is fun to have more than one, but they are live animals and should be treated as such, not as some baseball/pokemon cards or whatever they collect these days.

[Bearded AL]

I would have to agree with alot of the people here that my little girls are part of my family and I dont think I would ever sell them unless there was no other way to avoid it(family sickness or something like that) I do love watching my girls wandering around and chasing there crickets and hand feeding my Sassy .Yes I do plan on breeding them sooner or later probly later and I will sell the offspring unless one really grabs my eye then it will be one more in the family . So there you have my thoughts on this like everyone else I love my herps hehe.

[Emily-Fisher]

I dont have a single pet although I have a HUGE family!! (Hint hint)

[depressor86]

theyre my buddies :) i dont care what morph i get or what species .. i go for personality rich animals.

[Katt]

This is a very good question.

I love my snakies, but I keep two collections. One is my permenant collection. Ones I don't sell, and the other are snakes, that I got b/c of a trade or had to buy a pair, or this or that. Ones I'm not especially attached to.

Snakes do not bond like cats or dogs, so rehoming them means nothing to them aside from some initial stress from shipping. Okay I don't COMPLETELY agree with this statement, but for the most part yes. They will not pine away like a dog or cat or bird. Regardless I miss a lot of the snakes I sell and am glad that I can sell most to friends I know so I can keep an eye on them and see how they are growing.

Please remember collections evolve, you may pick up this and that species and realize, you REALLY like working with a certain species and not so much the other. It is human nature to concentrate on the one you really like and not interact as much with the one you don't. Is it not better to find another home who will appreciate that species/snake better?

It's easy to say you won't ever sell a reptile when you're collection is under a certain number, but there comes a certain 'magic' number where you have to go, ok, I've got too many. It's easy for that to happen b/c reptiles are just so incredible you can't resist their little faces.

[Samba]

Silkie, I understand your views. I can't imagine having a pet for however many years then just 'trading' them in to get the 'flavor of the month'. I am way attached to my animals, and it may sound stupid to say, but they are my kids. My bf and I can't have children so they fill a much needed void in our lives.

If anyone has ever read my posts about my 'babes' then they know I am truely into it for the personality and joy of interacting and watching them everyday. Some say that cleaning their cages and making sure they eat is a chore, but to me it's something I don't think twice about. I love my animals, and I mean it. I would do anything for them, and even if the animals AREN'T mine, I've gone out of my way to help them.

My dad once told me that if I left all my pets and rescues with my mom and moved to live with him in FL he'd buy me a car, pay for my schooling and give me anything I would ever need. I believed him, but telling me to leave my kids behind is something I CAN'T even consider. (Some of them are 'special needs' animals).

For the people who consider keeping reptiles a 'hobby' (and those of you who have mentioned this aweful word know who you are). Reptile keeping is no different from dog or cat keeping, yet no one calls that or treats that as a hobby.

My animals are my pets, members of a family; included in everything from holidays to their own birthday parties and I've got the pix to prove it!

Well thought-out thread, Silkie, thank you for reminding us just how special our pets are!

[eyespy]

I probably have too much of a pet mentality for my lifestyle. Now that I work from home rehabbing post-operative cases that will be going back to their owners I should be able to have some detachment and think of those herps as part of somebody else's collection.

But I find myself thinking of them more like they are my foster kids and my own pets are my babies. I get way too attached and it's very bittersweet once my fosters have recovered enough to go back to their owner. There are so many that I really wish I could keep.

[unBOAlievable]

Every reptile I have is very special to me. Sure color morphs are nice and I own a few, but I would never sell another reptile in my collection to buy one. I also keep a couple of pairs from every breeding, always have always will. Sure it gets expensive, but if I was doing this for the money I would have bailed out years ago.

[daver676]

I never thought I could fall in love with a snake until I realized the other day that I was baby-talking my ball python. My gf said she had never seen anything funnier than a 250 lbs grown man goo-gooing a baby ball python.

I recall myself calling herping a hobby, and since I have become attached to my python, I have realized it is much more than that. My snake is a part of the family, and I love him.

Dave

[marisa]

I like Katt response...it sums up how I feel.

I basically have some herps that will NEVER go anywhere if I can help it. They are like kids, and we love them each for different reasons. They are part of my "collection" as well if you can call it that. And some I will breed, some I will just keep because they needed a home, or because I liked them.

But I have other herps that I have because I have a specific interest in them. I LOVE my corns but they are my interest and I have traded a female before because she had beautiful coloration, some interesting genes, and she would make someone else really happy....in a place where that person has a male to suit her right. I did not, so I found that place for her and got a male in return who would suit my plans better. Both homes (mine and the persons) were excellent and I see nothing wrong with it.

Marisa

[stevesemerko]

My reptiles are pets...I do plan to breed them and sell some of the young but I will be keeping some babies for myself. I only buy animals that I know I can look after and keep in the best of health. I won't breed my snakes unless I can make sure I can house the young properly (because some may not sell for a long time) at all stages of life.

[MAN OF STEEL]

i care for all of them like family. first i am attached to the snake itself, but i also strive to have the rare ones.
i care for all of them the same regardless of pattern, color, size,
or temperament. good point!

[vanderkm]

While I really enjoy and appreciate the appearance or personality of many of the snakes in my collection, they are not family to me. There are none that I couldn't sell or trade if the circumstances involving my family required it. We are currently facing a move to a province where several of the species we own are not permitted. I have sold or placed several snakes in the last month that have been with me since hatchlings; one guy that I am actually very fond of. It was hard to leave him behind because I apprecaite his nature and beauty, but I will not let owning him jeopardise our employment and family's future.

There are snakes that I have been happy to sell because after living with them for a while, I just really didn't like them. The Pueblan milksnake we had was just too much of an idiot and had to go (and the person who has him appreciates him). Would I sell part of my collection to get an albino boa - absolutely. Not for the profit of breeding albino boas, but because I can only look after a limited number of snakes and I selfishly would rather feed and care for an animal that I enjoy than one that is less appealing to me, whether for color or personality. I will also gladly sell individuals that I bought to be part of a breeding program if they turned out to be the wrong sex or were unsuitable for breeding. I would take reasonable care to place them in suitable homes, but they would go.

I started out in the hobby by rescuing a couple snakes and I wanted a pet. Being a part of the hobby resulted in my interests changing to include genetics and more diverse species and I buy or sell snakes to suit my interests. As much as I like specific individuals, every one of them has a value attached to it and they are possessions, but I feel very strongly that it is my ethical obligation to provide them with the best possible care when they are with me.

just my point of view,


mary v.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Not only do I whole-heartedly agree with what Mary said, her post was by far the best written one! Good job. I like that she stated all her points without belittling any one else's opinion.

:D

[Tim and Julie B]

Hobby: activity pursued in one's spare time.

I am not a full time proffessional. I do it in my spare time. Therefore it is the deffinition of hobby. Out of all the things I said that is the word that stuck? I am sorry if you or anyone else thinks that that word is somehow belittling your view on the care of reptiles but by deffinition that is what it is, a hobby. Not to compare it to building model boats or gardening but they are all hobbies. Unless you do it full time.

[damzookeeper]

I have to agree with the majority here. My animals are my family, my babies. I have sold a couple of my beardies that I considered family but I had no choise as I bought them as females and they ended up being males and I had no place to house them properly and had to get them out of the cages with the females before they tried to breed them too young. I also have a couple that I cannot breed but I am very attached to and I would not sell them or trade them. One is infertile and the other is too small.
However, I don't feel the same way with the babies. I do get attached and have to find a good home for them or let them go to someone I know I can trust will find them good homes. But I can't keep them all and the breeding and selling of the offspring help for vet care, to feed, and house my current "collection". I use that word losely because I do have many herps but I still try and have quality time with all of them and their health and happiness comes before anything else!
On each of their cages they have their birthdates and their names. I take great joy in finding the perfect name for each of them, as silly as that may sound. lol.

[reptile gallery]

Well, here I go. I happen to be one of those 'bad bad people' that sell reptiles, but first and foremost, I am a reptile keeper and breeder. I have snakes in my personal collection that have been with me for years, and I have some that come and go. If I do not or did not produce it myself, then I am more than happy to order from quality domestic breeders accross Canada, and through this I have met wonderful people..formed wonderful relationships, even friendships, and have enjoyed the pleasure of seeing hundreds of well kept healthy reptiles. I formed 'The Reptile Gallery' out of the passion for these wonderful animals, not for the money. Believe me, there are many careers that would pay my time a lot better than this! I do what I do because I love doing it. Period. Great people and great animals. What more could one ask for?
Remember that as our interest in reptile keeping grows, it is up to all of us to promote domestic produced livestock and ensure that each time an animal goes to a new home, it recieves the best care possible from someone with the proper experience or knowledge, regardless of whether that animal is to be a 'pet' in someones small collection, or number 672 in someones breeding facility. If keeping the animal forever works for you, great! If your needs, interests or ability to provide proper care changes, then do what is best for the animal. Put it in the hands of someone who wants it. I personally enjoy the thrill and excitement people experience when they purchase a new reptile from my store, and no matter how many times I recieve reptile shipments the thrill is still there for me too!

[silkie]

I think that breeding is great so that way we dont have to keep on ripping animals out of their homes. Breeding is one of the cool things about keeping reptiles. I am glad to see that everyone loves their pets as much as I do, and that they are more than just fancy objects. Biz is biz for some people, but if you biz is a labour of love, all the better. Money is an evil black hole that sucks away love. Labour of love = who cares about the money, I have my herps and thats all that matters! Reptiles are so GREAT!!

[silkie]

I think that "reptile gallery" put it into perspective quite well when he said "I formed 'The Reptile Gallery' out of the passion for these wonderful animals, not for the money. Believe me, there are many careers that would pay my time a lot better than this!" That is awesome, loving his job for the job itself, not the potential cash flo.
Selling babies is great, all the more room for new lovers of the reptile to love reptiles.
I origonally just wanted to comtemplate on what our animals mean to us and why we do what we do, and it is clear that it is because we love em so much! From keepers to breeders this is a hobby/business of passion and love!!
One of the coolest things too, is not only are we brought closer to nature with our animals we keep, but also to other people too, look at how amazing the community on ssnakess.com is, and its the herps (and Jeff) that help bring us all together!! Keep it real!!