Idenity Crisis

[CyberGhost]

Okay, I went herping friday night and found a few things, but I found a neonate of something I'm not quite sure of what it is I'll try to explain it and its behavior to you guys and I have pix but I dont know how to post them, if somone could tell me how I would galdly put them on. We'll here it goes, its a glossy tan colar with dark brown diamond like stripes.traced in black all along the body even to the tip of its nose which come to an exact point. At first I was sure it was a baby rattler but it has no rattles but then I thought it might just not had its first shed yet. It's stomoch is a pale white/yellow/tan color. When afraid it wiggles around and squirts gewie stuff out then after awhile it rears up and make a couple of wild strikes when it does this it also points up its tale like a ralle but don't sem to move it. Most rattlers dont have their colors on their face this one does, also the pointed nose led me to beleive it was not a rattler but thwn I don't know what it is plz help me? It's tongue is long and black if that helps. If anything else is needed feel free to ask I live in eastern west texas mainly mountian plains its two hours south of lubbok and about 30 mins from midland/odessa. PLz help me ?????????

[CyberGhost]

I have a better pic but I was't sure if it would work or if this one will work for anyone else but I'll ry and see what I can do It would only let me attach one file.

[Zoe]

Could it be a bull snake? The pattern looks a little like it...
http://web.infoave.net/~ottg/bulls.jpg

It could also be c. atrox. The pattern doesn't really look like it, but then again I havent seen that many western DB rattlers in my life. What did you mean by colour on its face? Atrox can have stripes on their faces:
http://nasa.utep.edu/chih/theland/animals/reptiles/crat.htm

I'm pretty sure its not a mohave... doesn't look right to be.

It looks like a rattler to me... but there are so many species in w. texas and without a better pic of the head it's pretty hard to be sure.

Zoe

[CyberGhost]

the head looks like an egg with a point and exact point at the end which I have never seen in a rattler. I think it is a bull snake but I am not sure but the patterns of the whole body continue onto the head and face this is't common in snakes. It's really only seen in kingsnakes, corol snakes, and milks. Bull snakes have designs on their faces I think thats what it is because rallters I dont beleive eject that stinky stuff from their rears don't only colibridae do that?

[Zoe]

Well, any snake can take a crap on your, so I presume you are refering to musking? I don't believe rattlers musk, but I'm not sure.

Since you are thinking colubrid, here is a pic of a sonoran gopher http://web.infoave.net/~ottg/sgopher.jpg

Does it have big dark patches right behind its head? If so it could be a texas night snake. Also, many colubrids imitate rattler behaviour (especially in regions where there are lots of rattlers) as a defense mechanism, which would explain the tail threats.

[reverendsterlin]

it is not an atrox

[CyberGhost]

I checked out your theory its definately not a night snake I still think bull but better safe then sorry

[Zoe]

Do you have any better pictures?

Pattern pics are good, but in that region many of the snakes share a relatively similar pattern, making identification through pattern only very difficult.

[CyberGhost]

No, my cam is a peice of **** its not for pixtures but a web cam. I will be getting a better portable cam soon but not now I understand it might be hard to I.D without this but I would just like your best educated guess. It would help alot.

[Zoe]

My guess is a bull snake, because of the pattern and the other stuff you described. Let him bite you, then you can know if its a rattler. just kidding of course.

[RachelS.]

Definately NOT a rattler. It looks more to me like a bull or possibly a pine snake. You might want to do a search on these two snakes and see if they match your snake's description by any chance.

[CyberGhost]

I alredy did which is why am now alomost absolutely sure it's a bull snake or some sort of close relative mainly gopher snake or pine like you said. I'm setting up a enclosure for it remeber its a neonate and this is only tempary. So how should I go about setting up a enclosure for a bull. I'm in the blue about this.

[Zoe]

Look up bullsnake care.

IMO, you should release it. You shouldn't keep wild caught snakes, especially if it's a bull snake which is pretty easy to find in captivity.

[LdyDrgn]

Why hasn't anyone asked to check its EYES???

Are the pupils round or vertically slit? The majority of colubrids have round pupils.

Another colubrid possibility is the Eastern Glossy Snake (http://www.lifesci.utexas.edu/research/txherps/snakes/arizona.elegans.html) .

Peruse this site and see if you can find what you caught: Texas Herps (http://www.lifesci.utexas.edu/research/txherps/snakes/)

[Tim and Julie B]

I think that it's a Fox snake. They are mainly found in the prairie regions of Nebraska east to Northern Illinois and all of Wisconsin, with an isolated pocket in northern Ohio into Canada(rules!:D) which is right about where you are in Toronto. When first confronted they rear their heads and necks, then hiss and strike. They can however be tamed very quickly, comparible to corns in fact. However, they are prone to ejecting a foul-smelling glandular secretion from their scent glands when initially caught. It can be kept similar to corns and feed well on mice.They need at least 3 months of hibernation at about 10-15 dgrs.(50-59 F). About 20 eggs per clutch and hatch in about 60 days. Just my 2 cents:D LOL
Julie B.

[Zoe]

He said he found it in west texas tho...

[RachelS.]

Yeah, Texas doesn't even have fox snakes. I have never heard of those until coming to this site.

As for keeping it... don't. Pines, bulls, and gopher snakes are fairly easy to find captive bred for pretty good prices. Let it go right where you found it.

[Tim and Julie B]

Oops, sorry guys:D
I looked at Zoe's location, it was late:D

[sparkon16]

lol it is a bull is all i can say!!!!