BDTEARS[check it out]

[Night_Crawler]

Okay, I decided to open my own pet shelter and I have been busy making posters which i cannot post here becaus ehtye were made in word but I have also made a small website that is sure to grow int he future to visit it follow this link http://hometown.aol.com/bstears1/myhomepage/business.html http://hometown.aol.com/bstears1/myhomepage/business.html (http://) okay so check it out and let me know your feedback!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank You!!!!!!!!!

[Zoe]

Were you not previously saying that you lacked time to care for even one more time consuming aninal?

And you do realize that you won't be able to keep anything that goes against your bylaws without a permit.

I'd also revise the spelling on the site.

Zoe

[Night_Crawler]

I have other peopel to help me its not just me. And nothing goes angainst my bylaws in the firstplace and then i simply wont keep it but on my own land i could have a elephant and not have apermant and they couldt say much as long as i treated it good.

[marisa]

Actually that's not true. You could own land, but if its in a specific area you could most certainly NOT house an elephant.

Farm animals must live on farm zoned land I believe. And many cities ban a lot of snakes. Not saying anything IS banned where you live, but it has nothing to do with it being YOUR land.

Marisa

[Zoe]

So you really think you have the time, money and capability to take care of hawks with broken wings, 25ft mean-as-hell retics with RIs and shed problems, a giant rattler with mouthrot, even starving lions with serious mange? To train animals so they can be released into the wild?

This is a big thing you're attempting start - it's NOT something you can do half-assed then drop a month later when you get bored or broke. Not only are animals depending on you, but sick and perhaps dying animals. You'll be spending way more on vet fees than you'll ever get from selling the animals - if you even can.

I'd give way more thought to this project before starting a hometown.aol.com/.../.../.../.../ website filled with typos.

I'm not trying to insult you, but I really doubt you've put much thought into this. This isn't a "oh! lots of people will bring me their high-end animals that I can spend 10$ of vet fees on and then sell for thousands." type of thing. Much of what you get, you won't be able to sell for a profit, if at all.

However, if you have the funds and proper facilities to back it, not to mention time, manpower and lots of experience, then go for it. Lots of unwanted animals need homes.

Zoe

[NewLineReptile]

I agree with Zoe ..........I just read a post last night and you said you had no time for handeling you reptiles. And now one day later you seem to have all the time in the world. Your idea is a thoughtfull one but like Zoe said it take's Money,and the capability to care for these animals. What about all the equipment that you will need and the knowlage of a vet to give the care that some of these animals will need. This idea you have is not something you wake up to and say "hay" i'm going to open a shelter. Think about it I have been around reptile's for a very long time and keep many large snake's even a few Venomous snake's. And yet there is still alot i need to learn and have help with you said you need help on how to tame down you little Iguana. Well if you need help for something like that how in the world would you help a 25 ft mean as hell Retic or others like Zoe said. The bottom line is i think you should really think about this a bit longer and harder. I don't mean to slam you in all of your post's but you bring it on your self with what you put in your post's I hope with what every one has told you in this post that you will get the point and see that maybe you should think of the thing's that was mentioned.

[Night_Crawler]

For the 1st thing this is not just me its other people to that will and want to help. And I doubt that we ever get anything of the animals you just described and theres no vet in my area that even near qualified to work on anything but dogs cats and livestock. Thats why I started this thing to try and save what animals I can. As for marissa i dont know where you live but here in texas as long as your out of city limits and you own the land or have permission by the owner you can do absolutely whatever you want. Theres even Brothels here on peoples land and the cops can;t and won't do a thing about it.

[NewLineReptile]

Well if there is no vet's qualified for animal's like we mentioned then what make's you think that you are qualified and what make's you think that animals like that wont show up at your door when you have a shelter no animal is refuesed you just cant pick and choose what you will take in and one more thing you said at first that (YOU DECIDED TO OPEN A SHELTER) you did not mention anyone else Well all i can say is good luck you will need it.

[Trace]

If you don't have a qualified vet near you.... how are you going to nurse sick animals back to health? I'm under the impression you have no animal medical training, so just how are you going to determine what is wrong with any "rescues" you receive and just how are you going to rehabilitate them?

Just curious...

Trace

[eyespy]

There are federal laws that can and do affect the type of animals you keep, under the Fish and Wildlife service, and believe me, with no qualified vet on staff or retainer, they can and do shut down rescue operations if there are not people with the proper veterinary care background capable of treating injured, abused and neglected animals. Texas may have laws through either their Department of Agriculture or their Fish and Game Commission as well.

Be careful what you get yourself into! You really should contact federal, state and local government and ask what permits and credentials you need before you go advertising a rescue.

[beth wallbank]

Just to shed some light on your idea. As for opening a shelter that you and some of your buddies will run, is this the same group of friends that mangled the corn and smoked the blood?
A week ago, you were all hopping to round up and slaughter thousands of rattle snakes, you have an out of control baby iggy, and you have absolutely no time on your hands. But suddenly, you have all the time and resourses to open a rescue shelter? Never going to happen.
To begin with, you need a business license, access and training for dispensing meds, loads of money to build this said shelter, and yes, you will have to find more time to find people to give the shelter donations. Shelters are run soley 99.9% of the time on public donations. Do you have any of this all planned out?
I think you should hang onto your idea, and get some education and experience in herpetology first before you try and open a shelter that is destined for failure. There are many shelters in your area, so why don't you spend the next two years or so volunteering at one of those first, and if you still feel that your shelter idea is still an interest of yours then, well go for it.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

.. Wouldn't he need a rehab. premit and don't the process include having a qualified vet, Proper check ups of housing and vet care? Also, Texas laws ARTICLE VII
PROHIBITED AND EXOTIC ANIMALS Section 7.01 Definition of Prohibited Animals
8. Order Proboscidea (elephants);
Plus I'm sure you'd need USDI/A permits to keep them. Plus Zoning doesn't exclude land ownership. If it disturbs other people that are willing to fight then you're in for more than you can handle, most likely. Do rehab permits exclude Falconry, Import/export and CITES papers? Just a little thing one running a shelter might come across. Plus I'm sure you will use a different building (possibly a new built one) and if so I think you will have to register a new building to the city ordinence and tax commission. Or something of the sort..
The thing is, just because you own your land don't mean you are free to do as you pleaseand are you physically ready for this?
Xain

[Night_Crawler]

I never said I did't have time to handle my reptiles what i said is I didt have alot of time. Would you rather let all the animals suffer and die then get what help they can, honestly I'm not trying to be an archangel here but something has to be dont you havew no idea how mad the animal rescourse here is. On the site it clearly states we assept most, most meens not all anything we can't handle we will simply recomend them to somone you can help. Anf you really think there are animal contol laws, there are peopel I know of that live right outside town that have lions, tigers, & bears quite literly and have no liscense and no-one has evr said anything to them. My family is half the law in the town. You dont need rehab or any of that stuff its not a have to. Those laws that prohibit exotic animals only effect the city limits. Also no permit is required go ask almost any founder of a shelter I've asked many of them and theve all told me the same thing yopu need no liscenses or permits. Those frinds that did that to the snake I havet talk to sice and know these people have never even mett those people. I wast hopping around to collect anything the RSRU was about 4 months ago dude i just said it wast as badd as people said it was and its not without it the Rattlesnake population would grow to high and pose a threat to society[as if it does'nt alredy]. I may not have thought of all the deatils but I will and with my frinds help I ccan do anything.

[Emily-Fisher]

I never said I did't have time to handle my reptiles what i said is I didt have alot of time. <br>
Bam! Exactly. You just said that you DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME. You walked right into that one.

[Blink182]

he said he (himself) doesnthave enough time. but he also saidther epeople helping him so the no time issue may be irrevelent depending on how many people are helping him and how many animals he is taking care of.

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

Alright dude, You dont seem very old to me, And you deffinetly dont seem anywhere near qualified to run a pet shelter with your friends. If you dont live near a vert, dont bother. If you get a rattler with mouth rot (as Zoe said) you cant just put urself at risk without ANY exp. An animal shelter requires a LOT of time. If someone brings somthing in, you cant turn it away. Dont expect people to bring in corns/balls that cant shed, Expect Rattlers/Vipers with stomach rot or something, I gotta go to schoool Ill finish later.

[Lisa]

Brad, your intentions are nobble but I don't believe you have 1/2 the idea of what you're getting into. It's nice that your buddies say they're going to help you now, but really all you have to count on is yourself.

As for the legal aspect of things, just because your family is "half the law around there" doesn't mean you can go around breaking the law and regulations as you see fit.

What are you going to do when you're up to you're eyeballs with unwanted iguanas, crocadiles or unfriendly constrictors, some of them vicious, some of them suffering nasty medical problems, all of them needing a vast amount of space and vet care? You can't release these animals back into the wild, even if they're native species to your area. You don't know what the animals have been in contact with or what they may be carrying. You could end up wiping out native colonies doing that.

Caring for your single king snake, iguana (that you don't have alot of time for) and a small lizard isn't all that expencive. How ever when you have 20 iguanas, a couple large constrictors and other large meat eating lizards you will need alot more food. Where are you going to get the funds for feeding all the problems dropped at your door? And yes they are problems because if they weren't then they wouldn't be given to you free of charge.

Where is the money to pay for the food for the crocadiles and adult rock pythons going to come from. Don't think you will have to deal with those? Guess again, people think they're all cute when they're babies but when they realize they need a full sized room with a bath tub to house it and a colony of goats to feed it it all of a sudden the croc doesn't look so cute.

Many people running rescues are working fulltime jobs to pay for the rescue. You're 15 and still in highscool (at least I hope you're in highschool). Having the rescue fee paid for by an adopting family won't begin to cover the costs of food, caging, ligting, vets and transportation. Yes you're going to have to pay for transporting an animal when you pick them up, and people won't pay you to pick up an animal either, they'll just kill the animal or set it free in the wild. How are you going to pick up these animals? Will your mommy drive you 2 hours to pick up a spitting cobra? Are you even set up for handling hots? Have you ever had to deal with a snake that has no anitvenom available? Will your parrents health insurance cover you if you have venomous snakes? will their house insurance cover you?

Also some of these animals you can't give away, never mind charge the costs of food and vet fees. Why would they want to pay all that for a broken iguana when they can buy a healthy baby at the petstore for a fraction of the cost?

At a local rescue they have 7 Iguana's that need homes. This is on top of the 35 that have already been adopted in recent history.

Have you ever handled an adult crocadile or rock python? How about an angry adult that needs medical attention. What are you going to do? Handle them like you see The Crocadile Hunter on tv? Steve's been handling these animals since before you've been born and he still manages to take bites and have other things go wrong. This is with a TRAINED STAFF OF PROFESSIONALS.

Running a rescue isn't something to take lightly. I considered doing it but realised it was far more then I was capable of, and it won't be the great source of free herps you think it will be. There is alot more involved then just hanging out your shingle and saying "Anyone got any snakes they don't want?".

I just noticed another thing. The only way to contact you is via email. Some times you don't even have the time to pick up the animal from the time you know about it. List a phone number and address so people can call or bring over their abbandoned herps.

[Zoe]

You don't think you'll have to deal with big birds with broken wings? Tigers shot in the face but not killed? Lions or bears that have been kept as "look-at-these" animals but are now starving, worminfested and very sick? If you truly think that, you have no idea what you're betting into.

I really don't think you understand the implications... You can't just turn away animals that are too sick / too big / too aggressive handle, and only keep the good, sellable animals. It doesn't work that way, if they were worth selling, why would the owner GIVE it to you? People very, very rarely give away healthy, mid-to-high end animals. If you have no vet around, how are you going to the meds you need? How are you going to determine if a snake has IBD or a blood infection due to mites?
If you can't control a baby iguana, and have very little time to take care of your herps, this is really too big an operation for you to just decide to undertake. You need to devote ALL your time to this, all your money, you'd need to construct a few buildings devoted to the animals you're going to get (how the heck do you quarantine a few 25ft retics in a house?), you'll spend a fortune on meds (and since you have no access to a decent vet - you'll likely end up precribing the wrong meds and killing the animal.)

Opening a shelter is a good idea, but only when you're properly prepared and funded. You need lots of experience working with everything from birds of prey, to venomous snakes, to giant snakes, to lions and tigers, IGUANAS!, and who knows what else? And as stated before, you can't just say "Hey, a perfect ball python, I'll keep that. Ooh, sorry, we don't accept iguanas or burms, you'll have to bring them elsewhere."

And yes, federal laws DO apply, even if you live outside city limits and own the land. If I got a piece of land outside city limits would it be legal for me to do drugs there?

If you want to begin starting thing, you need to get into contact with game and wildlife officials and any other possibly implicated authorities, you need to look into laws and bylaws (really look into them - don't just ASSUME you can keep anything you want anywhere you want), get the proper training and experience (which will take you a few years - plenty of time to save all the $ you need), find a GOOD volonteer (you won't be able to afford to pay them) staff with lots of experiece, build some decent facilities, find a good vet... when you've done all that, you can get started. That's when you'll really mke a difference for all the neglected herps and other animals out there.

[beth wallbank]

but the thing is they need money and experience.....doesn't matter if he thinks hes got all the time to waste in the world, his idea is a good one and he may be sincere in wanting to help, but a rescue is 110% pure sweat and dedication....

[Night_Crawler]

Yes, but I also said it wast just me. Sorry but if you can't realize that then your stupid. That is just dumb anywayz i said i didt have alot of time but i had enough. If your going to post i plz ask that you read the enitre post before you critisize. I have other people that are willing to help and have the support of others, I do not know how mant times I have posted and reposted this so get over it if you insist of critisizes me then find a new subject.

[nuno]

Sorry, You are the one that is STUPID. I have never read such IDIOTIC crap before. You don't seem to realize what you're getting yourself into, Zoe and Lisa have clearly described what you have to face and the trials and tribulations that follow.
I'm not even going to waste my time!!

[Lisa]

Brad, you obvously haven't read what Zoe or I typed. As for other people saying they're willing to help, well people are always saying they are willing to help until they find out that they're going to actually be expected to work for free or spend money, or that they may have to do it when it's inconvienent to them. Not to mention being a minor YOU will more then likely need parental consent. Do your parents want to pay out the funds needed for housing, feeding and care? Oh wait, people said they will help. well unless you see money up front don't count on it when you come asking for $600 for a vet bill. You still haven't covered the topics of insurance, liability and handling. Have your helpful people ever wrestled with an aligator or reticulated? What do they do when they come across a venomous animal? Shoot it?

Have you even talked to anyone runnning a rescue? There's a few people on this site that can tell you exactly what's involved. Or you can visit http://www.reptilerescue.on.ca and talk to the people that run that rescue. Ask them how many hours they put into the business after they come home from their full time job. And that's with the help of others.

Resorting to name calling when you aren't able to respond to questions isn't going to get you anywhere.

Another question, have you ever had to medicate a reptile? What did it have and what did you give it? How big a does did you give it? These are things you will need to do while running a rescue, and trust me, you won't want to get your "unqualified vet to do it for you, those fees will eat into a few months supply of food for a couple dozen animals.

Are you ready to pay for an 800 # for people to phone to say "i've got these reptiles that i don't want, come get them or they're going on the bbq".

Usually when you open a business you find out what's involved first, then do the things you need to do to open the business such as get licenseing, tools and experience, then you open up your doors.

Get the experience you need first and when you can support not only your self but a business too, then start taking in rescues.

As for everyone jumping on your back, it is because of what's at stake here. This isn't you trying to set up a landscaping business with your dad's electric mower, there's animals involved here. You obviously haven't thought hard about it if your answer to everything is "People say they they will help". Most peoples idea of help will be to the extent of saying "hey i know this guy who want snakes".


Before responding take an hour and do nothing but think about each one of the points everyone has brought up.

[eyespy]

Night Crawler, there most certainly are laws and I've been visited by Animal Control this year, sent by the US Fish and Wildlife Service, just to check that all animals were properly housed and had received veterinary care if needed. They could have confiscated all my animals and fined me if they weren't happy with conditions. They asked to see all of my permits and I could have been shut down if I didn't have them!

I have 3 vets who work with me and put $1,200 into just one iguana's care in 2002 even though the vets donate their services. Medical supplies and tests are expensive!

[Alicewave]

As for marissa i dont know where you live but here in texas as long as your out of city limits and you own the land or have permission by the owner you can do absolutely whatever you want.

Just because you CAN do whatever you want, doesn't mean you SHOULD. You have already proven to us that YOU should NOT.

[sSNAKESs.com]

Brad, try not to take what people are saying personally, they are seriously just trying to help you. I am not going to scold you or put down your ideas, because your intentions are good and everything, but this kind of thing takes alot of planning. I would suggest you get your parents involved if you are seriously planning on opening something like this. I would enroll in a venomous reptile program / course which i am sure they offer in your state, where you can get some knowledge about venomous snakes and reptiles and maybe even some hands on experience. Contact the owners of venomous reptiles in texas and ask them if you can come by or something of the nature. Being in Texas you are going to get ALOT of venomous stuff and like people said, you cant turn it away. So get your parents involved, tell them your ideas and maybe they will help you with your venture... Take what people are telling you here into consideration instead of taking it as a personal attack, because what they are telling you is the truth! :)

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

Originally posted by Night_Crawler
Yes, but I also said it wast just me. Sorry but if you can't realize that then your stupid. That is just dumb anywayz i said i didt have alot of time but i had enough. If your going to post i plz ask that you read the enitre post before you critisize. I have other people that are willing to help and have the support of others, I do not know how mant times I have posted and reposted this so get over it if you insist of critisizes me then find a new subject. Alright, so you think you can get others to do all the work for you? What, your going to give the other people the hard stuff while you care for a Python that wont eat? I dont know you personally but I think this sounds like a seriously pathetic plea for more animals for you. And I, myself, dont know how many times Ive seen thing along the lines of 'You dunno what your getting urself into" and you still wont pay any attention. And if you really think you can pull this off, IMHO Your the stupid one. Wake up. (I know that seemed rude, But I needed to get that out.)

[RachelS.]

can we just close this post, please?

[Night_Crawler]

So what youde rather let the animals die then let them get what help they that is what it all boils down to I dont care what you say in the end thats what it is they some can live and get the help I or my Frinds can give or they can all die thats it and thats all so answer that do you wnat soem to live or all to die?

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

You think you can save every life? Trust me you cant, IMO you dont stand much of a chance. They would need PROPER MEDICAL ATTENTION. Not just feeding and such. Yes Rachel, I agree. We should close this. Night_Crawler, we cant change your mind but we CAN give you facts. My fact: BAD IDEA. Do what you want.

[tHeGiNo]

To put it bluntly, I think he is bsing with this little story here. How can someone who can't even spell properly, nevermind not know the slightest thing about herps, even CONSIDER opening a rescue shelter. No offense if your serious, but #1 your only 14 and second you have told odd stories in the past, about killing a corn snake and smoking his blood in a pipe, which frankly I don't believe and I feel you are doing this in order to upset the herpers on this site as you are sure it will.

[sSNAKESs.com]

Brad, basically if you can find animals to care for in your area feel free to take them in. But opening a legitimate animal rescue is realisticly out of the question unless you have a couple thousand dollars and alot more planning. Im closing this thread as its not going anywhere but downhill.