Pet Store Responds to Complaints

[Samba]

To All Concerned;

We all know THAT petstore chain that always seems to have sick, diseased, dying and dead animals on display. We have a few of those here in Albuquerque, but after visiting one a few weeks ago and offering help to the reptile caretaker (free of charge, I might add) and getting no response whatsoever, I decided to take action.

Last night I emailed the coorporate office with my concerns. It's so distressing for me to see these animals in such sad shape that I couldn't NOT say anything. The following is the letter I sent:

Dear Sirs/Madams;

I have observed in some of your stores (in Albuquerque, NM), the poor quality and distressing condition of many reptiles and amphibians who are not being cared for in a professional manner. I have been trying to gain employment with your chain so that I may properly demonstrate to your customers the appropriate attitude towards reptiles and amphibians, as well as show by example the environments they require. I want nothing more than to improve the stores' public image (as of now, at least here in NM, it is widely avoided in this department). The ***** Stores here claim to use the on-site vet-staff, but I always see decrepid, diseased and dying animals in their stores. Even when I point out these things (and suggest ideas to improve) to managers and employees alike, no one seems to care enough to take action. It's very sad to walk into a store and see dead and dying animals, not occassionally, but on a regular basis. Please respond, I WANT TO HELP!!!

SambasReptileRescue@Hotmail.Com


Since this morning I have recieved a response from the coorporate office, and the district manager of the particular store to which I am referring. After a lengthy phone conversation, the manager (who turns out to be a really concerned guy), extended an offer for me to visit the store in question and point out areas I think need improving. He even wanted me to come in at the same time as his reptile 'specialist' (who I might add, couldn't even sex an adult leopard gecko for me 2 weeks ago), so that I could give him some pointers.

He explained to me (or tried to excuse some of the animals that I've seen), by stating that animals are not always healthy when they arrive at the store. I countered that with the fact that such animals should recieve Vet attention, and not be left on display with 10 other reptiles in a ten-gallon tank for the public to see. He claims his store has a place for the sick animals to go (and I hope it's not back to where they came from). Tomorrow I am meeting with him, and I will post an update here. It's nice to be heard, because I've been making in-store complaints for 3+ years now. (This district manager has only been with this store for 3 months). While on the defensive, I hope our meeting will result in these reptiles and amphibians being treated the way they deserve to be: with the utmost respect!

I encourage all of you out there to do the same with pet stores in your areas who may not be taking proper care of their reptiles and amphibians. Please note however, that this meeting is ONLY taking place because I reported them to coorporate headquarters. I have never been invited to such a meeting with complaints told in-store. Thanks for your support!

[Steve]

Congrats. Hopefully they listen to what you tell them and its not just a scam to get you to be quiet. It really sucks because the big corporate stores are what most people see, so they think these conditions are good for the animals. Because people that visit these stores usually only see sick animals, they have never really expierced the true beauty of reptiles that are healthy. I hate when people see animals as an object instead of a life. If you ask the the "Pet Rock" fad there was a long time ago should come back as these "pets" are disposable

[sSNAKESs.com]

I would like to remind you guys that the slander of pet stores if not permitted in the forums for legal reasons... So lets keep it within reason.

[reverendsterlin]

Well Samba, I'm here in Las Cruces (howdy :) ). What usually will happen is they will outlast you, even if they get someone to care (small chance) the employee turnover in these places (from management on down) is so rapid that it doesn't last. Otherwise they 'do good' until publicity dies down then back to the same old, same old. Good luck, and possibly we can set up a meeting next time I'm there (mom lives in Albuquerque) which is fairly often. Check out Subterranian Jungle those guys are pretty good, I think it's on morningside, just north of central.

[Steve]

Jeff...none of the names of any store was mentioned...only the fact that it was a corporate pet store.
your not to blame for your caution thought....would suck if something legal happened to this site....or its members

[Randolph]

It's very sad going into "most" pet stores these days. All the pet stores in my area have the same porblem. One in particular has all animals in the same 10gal tanks regardless of size. One such example was a BP that had dead skin all over it and was trying to soak in a water dish. The only problem was the water dish was about the size of it's head. Pet stores are only concerned with money, any way the can cheap out they will. Another pet store has some colubian boa consrtictor babies, which they got from the same breeder i got mine from and theirs are all bout half the thickness of mine. I kow this 'cause the breeder told me and then i went and saw them for myself. It's very sad and i want to buy all the pets in those stores, but i don't have the space.

[Tim and Julie B]

Congrads! Well done I wish I could get a local pet store to change, maybe I need to be more direct.

[Steve]

Even if your were to buy these animals thought...the stores would just order more, and more, and more. Thats what these stores are there for. Once in awhile you can talk to the manager of the store and if you get lucky they will give you an animal. I've heard of this happening a few times(can count it on 1 hand..) but once you get the animal you usually need to spend even more on vet bills...i'd be willing to pay for the vet thought

[Samba]

Thanks, Steve, I really hope it's not a scam. Personally, I considered going down to the petstore after speaking with the manager to see what the current conditions are. I don't want them to 'tidy up' before I have a chance to show them what animals are sick, which animals shouldn't be housed together, etc.

This particular store has major problems with iguanas, tokay geckos, anoles, fire-bellied toads, fat-tailed and leopard geckos. Many of their animals are STILL wild-caught (I guess they want to save $$$). When there are 10 creatures to a cage, and some are large, some small, the public gets the idea that it's okay to do this. They also think the inter-species and same sex situations are ok. Animals being housed on unappropriate substrate, etc. Well they're not and I hope they take me seriously.

I've been rehabilitating reptiles such as theirs for almost 7 yrs. now so I'm not just a casual observer, and I let him know that. I hope this prompts everyone to do the same in their areas (if there is a problem, of course), and I will let you guys know how it goes down tomorrow! Thanks again!

[Mike177]

samba,
I would like you to know(even though you probably already do) that the actions you have taken have been bold. and i want you to know that i have a new found respect for you (even though i dont realy know you) and i would like to just say that people like you who are giving there spare time and lives to these reptiles and people like you who make shure other people are taking care of there anamals in a resposable and safe manner and its people like you who give the hobby of keeping reptiles a good name.

[Samba]

Wow, by the time I replied to Steve, 6 more messages were posted!

Jeff: Relax, I'm a smart gal, that's why I *** the store name! =)

To ReverendSterlin: Mark and Xyavyer are good friends of mine. As a matter of fact, they sold me my first two leopard geckos years before they had their shop! Those men take the absolute best care of their animals that I have ever seen, and I think credit is deserved where it is due! I use the same vet as them, and would trust the life of any of my animals in their hands. They've gone so far to help me with the many rescues I've had and I can't thank them enough.

As for the pet store in question, I plan on referring the manager to them to see what it means to REALLY care for animals. I know the turnover rate is high in these stores, that's why I've been trying to get myself employed there for 3 years. I don't even like the store, but I figure if I were in charge of their care they'd be better off, and I'd have a more than-satisfying job!

If you want to meet up sometime that would be cool... I'm just outside of Albuquerque, in Rio Rancho. E-mail me sometime and we'll get something going!

Randolph: Maybe you can take the time to talk to the problem pet stores in your area, if there is a coorporate office or an owner you can talk to, I'm sure they'd be willing to listen. If they don't, at the very least, the last thing you could do is contact the Humane Society and let them know what is going on. They should be able to help you and the reptiles. Don't give up! I've been on 'my' petstore now for 3 years!!!!!!

And Steve (again) LOL occasionally I have been called by petstores to pick up reptiles, but this happens very rarely. The petstores know that if an animal is sick they have few options... (1.) return the animal to wherever it came from;
(2.) sell the animal as it is;
(3.) try to save the animal and sell it;
(4.) give the animal to someone who cares (almost never happens)
(5.) let the animal die a miserable, painful death in front of the public (most always happens).

What is most sad is that they would rather leave a sick animal on display for the public to see and try to sell it regardless, then give it to someone who can try to save it, and place it in an experienced home. Sometimes I wonder just how messed up and insincere we humans have become... I have saved animals from this particular store before and I've had a lot of success and failures. I even bought two tokay geckos 1yr. and a half ago because they were in such bad shape. The female required hospitialization for a few days, then eventually died less then a month later. The male was strong and lived for a few months but just couldn't hang on, I guess. I know by buying them I made space for more sick reptiles to come in... but if you had only seen their sad, pathetic, lifeless faces maybe you would have done the same. I have a little more control today... but not a lot. Thanks for all the support, it really means a lot to me!

[Night_Crawler]

What is the name of this horrible pet store i would really like to know and hope that it is not a P#t@%&rt?

[NewLineReptile]

Night Crawler you should take some time and read all that has been said in this post then MAYBE you might catch on why the name of the store was not told?????

[Night_Crawler]

Well was it a Pe*#^%rt thats all I really wanted to know? They can answer that yes or no.

[Tim and Julie B]

Tim responded to your post but I'd like to add a few things. I am very impressed that you took the time, effort and guts to do what so obviously needed to be done. That is why we are herpers in the first place. That's why we go to sites such as this, for the great info and great people, who never cease to amaze me. Thank-you for helping our world-wide hobby which is still greatly misunderstood. I am seriously considering doing the same here. We have a well known chain here that continually houses leos that are decrepid and sick on their way to death. They even house different species together, which time and again I've tried to explain is the worst thing a store can do. It's been like that for a long time now, but I do recall a time when the store had great facilities for reptiles, and that was where I bought my second leo, who is huge, healthy and happy. Keep up the good work and I hope that your effort will truly make a difference.
Julie.

[NewLineReptile]

I dont think so night crawler that would be saying what the name of the store is and that is jeff does not want is slander to petstores

[Night_Crawler]

he could say no which would be saying its not or he could say i cant say which would imply as being the only other logical choice that it is. ANd no one could sue him.

[eyespy]

Samba, that's awesome!!! Way to go!!!

I had an excellent relationship with a district manager for one of the chain petstores and it actually broke my heart when I moved out of that area because after a few years of slowly working with him we were able to come to some compromises we both could live with.

Eventually the store stopped selling "fragile" species like iguanas and treefrogs because this manager realized that they were not able to keep the animals in proper caging in a cost-effective manner and it would be better to devoting their caging space to animals that required less from his staff. Once they stopped mixing species and ordered smaller but more frequent livestock deliveries their mortality rate went down which means they had more animals available for sale.

They started selling more cornsnakes, leopard geckos and firebellied toads as the caging was clean, bright and attractive which showed them off to best advantage and had fewer returns because of sick and dead animals so their profits increased. Concentrating on animals they could keep clean and healthy without blowing their budget on salad foods and constantly cleaning up after frequent poopers helped both staff and animals.

I would send frequent emails to the corporate office praising the store and that district manager for their hard work in improving conditions and basically sucking up unashamedly for the good of the animals. That really helped to solidify the good working relationship I had with this manager.

I found it to be a very good angle to show them how to get the biggest bang from the caging space they had available while protecting the health of the animals. It did take years working with this manager and a few calls to animal control to have the officers back me up on humane conditions for the animals but I found the work to be well worth it.

I admire you for working with the management at the store in your area and hope you can form a productive partnership as well. It's very rewarding when things like that happen. I've been in my new home for somewhat less than a year and am still trying to form such a good relationship with pet store owners and managers in my new area.

[Shane Tesser]

Nightcrawler...a yes or no would indicate slander in many ways. Yes would almost ensure a lawsuit...and no could result from another big box store sighting that slander was directed via implications that were made here towards them...bottom line..we get sued..say goodbye to this herping forum!!! Argue with me on this if you must, but lets face it..until you employ a lawyer like Jeff does...ill stick to neither a yes or no answer on various stores and suppliers...sorry this is how the world turns :(

Samba..best of luck, good to see ppl who really care out there. Lets just hope the new district manager isnt out to make a name for himself during his first few months on the job, only to have upper management push him back down in an attempt to silence the whole situation! Fight them tooth and nail, the best for the animals is the right thing to do. :)

[Night_Crawler]

Samba you should have gotten pictures or some form of decumented proof that way you could tell the world and as long as you could prove it to be true theres nothing that could be done. Also since its on the net it wouldt be slander, slander is spoken. In print its liable how do you think all the tabloids get awya with it, but they usually say from an unamed sorce which you could also have said. I don't think it wqas a petsmart every one I've been to was kept perfectly.

[Lisa]

I've noticed that one of the bigger chain stores here has begun to change, the reptile dept although small in this town has nice set ups and when an animal is going to grow big they have that as part of the selling information and even push captive bred animals. They're not perfect but they're certainly better then they used to be.

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

Nightcrawler - Let it go, No one cares what store it is. The point is Samba is giving back and helping those sick animals. Why would you care what store it is? Why would you even put this site at risk to be sued?

Samba - Thats awesome, The animals thank you! :D. Best of luck with that store.

[eyespy]

Night Crawler, if you are truly planning to open a shelter, you need to be much more tactful and diplomatic, and truly learn the laws of the land!!

Folks are sued all the time over things posted on web pages.

[Alicewave]

I know which chain she is referring to and I think they may actually be on the mend. The last one I went to looked great! All the animals looked healthy and the cages were actually clean! And I've been back a few times so it's actually not a fluke. And you know what, I SHOP there now! (still wouldn't buy a reptile there but we're getting closer) That's right...these pet stores need to learn that the healthier their animals look and the better the conditions are the more loyal customers they will have. They are only hurting themselves by scrimping on husbandry practices. Samba, you might mention this when meeting with the district manager. Good luck and congrats on where you have gotten so far!

[Tinytim12333]

I have problems with a cetain pet store chain around my house. They have always had diseased, sick,dying,and or dead fish, anphibians, and reptiles laying in or around cages. The only departments that are acctually good are the birds and sometimes the small animals i.e. the rodents. I have compalined and tryied to get a job at that one store because i wanted to take care of there sickly animals, and its that one store in the whole chain thats bad. Atleast thay house same type with same type but seperate the sizes in the reptiles, but you always see dried up lizards or snakes in the cage with the live ones. Even with the anphibians. There are always too many crix w/ the lizards and anphibians, and the snakes dont get enough food or water. But they dont care wat one kid thats 16 is saying. And the other large chain wont let me buy live animals from them cuz im not 18 and dont have an adult with me. Ive found private pet stores take care of there animals better in my opinion. But the one im talking about is a 15 minute drive from my house and not a two min. one.

[Samba]

Thank you all for your encouragment and support! I know it only takes a second to write a response, but the issue behind this post stands true to all herpers' hearts.

I met with the district manager today, who told me right off hand that he didn't know much about reptiles, and wasn't able to recognize problems with them until I pointed them out. He remained fairly quiet while I talked to his 'reptile specialist'. We disagreed about some things (i.e. that bark is a good substrate for young leopard geckos - yeah right!), but I told the manager if he needed to verify any information he could go to this site and check it out!!!

I really expected that when I got there, the store would have the sick and dying animals 'put away' but to my surprise, many were still on display. There was a sick, dehydrated baby iguana; a young water dragon who was gaping and suffering from mouth rot; about a million baby leopard geckos in terrible to 'okay' shape; four large amevias inside a cramped 5 gallon cage (two males repeatedly mated with a single female, and another female in the cage was already gravid and hiding). There were other animals who just needed a little help but these were the worst cases. The reptile specialist agreed to take the sick animals off display and consult a vet regarding their treatment. After lecturing for about 2 hours, I finally felt they understood that it was a serious issue enough to look into. Like many of you have mentioned, I told the store they can increase profits by taking better care of their animals. I left feeling somewhat like I had been a nusiance, but I told them I'd be back. I will send an update to the coorporate office in a few days, and stay on top of the issue until it is satisfactory. The best part was watching some of the animals being separated and taken into the back where they can rest and gain strength. I will keep posting updates on here, and I really want you guys to do the same if there is a problem pet store in your area. If we all made it clear these animals deserve to be treated with the care and attention that cats and dogs recieve we can get some of these places to change. Thank you for reading my posts and telling me your thoughts and opinions. More updates will arrive soon!

[Baby "G"]

Congradulations Samba!!
It's really nice to see somebody making a difference!!

Looking foward to reading the updates.

Baby "G"

[Tinytim12333]

Congrats. I hope i can acctually convince the corprate office over here. I also will update myself. And i also am looking tward your updates.

[eyespy]

Three cheers and many beers for Samba!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike177]

ya there is a pet store near my house that is accualy pretty good at keeping there anamals in good condition. excep keeping them is small cages. the only reson i complain (other then there HUGE price mark up) is that they will sell the ocational burm, retic, or emerald tree boa. do you think it is right to sell these anamals in a small local pet shop?

[RachelS.]

Hell yes, Mike, you shoulda know that selling herps like retics, burms, or ANY from the morelia family or a boa like that is dangerous!!! Unless it's a reptile special shop, I would complain!

[Lisa]

Originally posted by Mike177
ya there is a pet store near my house that is accualy pretty good at keeping there anamals in good condition. excep keeping them is small cages. the only reson i complain (other then there HUGE price mark up) is that they will sell the ocational burm, retic, or emerald tree boa. do you think it is right to sell these anamals in a small local pet shop?

I don't have a problem with it as long as they let buyer's know what the animal will be like.

[Samba]

Did someone say BEER?!?!?! LOL =D

Mike, I have to agree with you on this one. If anyone should be selling large onstrictors, let the specialty shops do it. Burms and Retics shouldn't be sold casually and I'll tell you why. Not only do they grow to a pretty unmanagable size, the average captive constrictor goes through about three or four homes. I can't remember were I read this statistic but it is reason enough for me.

Let the mom-n-pop pet stores sell the garters, corns and kings, leave the big guys to people who know what they're dealing with. Now, some might argue that if the store management, or owners let the buyers know what they are getting into the problem will be fixed. Not true. A shop here in Albuquerque, (a specialty shop, I might add), has adult snakes on hand for display to discourage the buying of burms and retics. The reason for this is that some people just don't realize how HEAVY or STRONG an 8 foot snake can be, let a lone a 20 foot one! Snakes as large as these shouldn't be sold as casual pets, and let me tell you... I wouldn't own one right now if he weren't a rescue.

Large constrictors do make great pets, and I have an infinite fondness for them; BUT, like iguanas, too many of them out there find themselves homeless, and 9 times out of 10 it's because of their size. Enough said.

[jpaulson]

I have been away on business for a week, so I am trying to get caught up with everything--forgive me if some of my comments here were already spoken.

Samba, congrats go to you for the efforts you are putting forth. They are truly needed in this field of hobby. Although I did not read word for word of your posts, I did see something about getting employed there. I hope that you at some point insist on payment for what you are doing. Although it may not be a big deal to you, if these stores learn that they can get free help, then they will not try to change the way they do business.

I saw that Nightcrawler has been banned--good job!! Even saying yes or no to a particular store would of been wrong. These stores are often times owned by franchisees--therefore it is THEIR business--not corporate. Although as a franchisee you are required to abide by corporate rules, many find loop holes in the system. It also must be pointed out that not all of any given store chains keep such uninformed and deplorable conditions. By speaking the name of one or two stores that may be this horrid, it hurts ALL of them, including the ones that truly care for their animals.

The real problem here is that most of these store chains do not cater to the reptile hobbyist as much as they should. Business-wise, most of their room is catered to dogs and cats, as they are the most popular pets in trade now. Usually, there is only one or two isles for reptile supplies, and very few live pets. Until the need for more space is expressed and shown to be a good business decision, these problems will continue. We can do our part by mentioning this every time we go there. If they have 50 people a week asking for reptiles, they are more apt to do something versus 5 people a week. With higher demand comes more skilled employees in reptiles. The reptiles are taken better care of, we have more choices in where we do business, and the stores make money. All in all, everyone wins!!

[Samba]

Jpaulson- thanks for the words of encouragement! As for being employed there, I have tried, time and again (for 3 yrs.) to get a job there to no avail. If it comes to it, I will assist them free of charge; I'm not in this for the money. (It would be a nice bonus though since I am currently a full-time, unemployed student trying to validate her federal non-profit status!) I recieved no offers the other day, but I plan to keep trying.

I won't have an update to give you guys until Tues. (I'm making a surprise appearance!) and I will be sending another letter to the coorporate office letting them know how this particular store is doing. I swear if I find one animal back on display that isn't already doing better I'll keep complaining until something is done, and this time I'll call humane animal services. Keep up your words of support, and if anyone else is making a difference I wanna hear about it! Check in on Tues. and I'll tell you what I've found! Thanks again guys, you all are wonderful!

[Samba]

LOOK AT THIS!!!! I just found this website surfing around (I was bored, eh) Anyways, so Jeff doesn't have a heart attack ( =D ) I'm not going to say ANYTHING about the CHAIN mentioned in this article, but please read it. It's so heartbreaking. =(

http://petstoreabuse.tripod.com/crypto.html

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

OMG, thats so sad. Look at how skinny those tails are...Man I dunno what to say..I feel really really bad for those geckos and immediate actions are needed for that bug before it takes hundreds of lives.

[Samba]

It already has. Worse yet, I found out this can be transmitted to humans and other pets as well. Like I said before, I won't say anything about this chain, but grrrrrrrr. Let's just say I now know I'm not the only person who has seen these problems. I had NO IDEA all this was going on outside of my situation. In the future, I'd like to post pictures here of what I've seen. According the laws stated in the article (I still have to check for my state), if you are photographing areas inside a store that are not banned or roped off from the public, picture-taking and publishing are completely legal. And I will do just that, if nobody has objections. This is complete and total B^!!$#*T!!!!! 'Scuse my un-ladylike language, but all this new info is SHOCKING and DISTRESSING!!!!

There is a petition on this site. SIGN IT! NOW!!!

[yankeefoxtrot]

I agree i was at the store today (petco) buying pinkeys and i saw some kid buyin a burm believe it or not. All i could think about is how long it would take for him to realize that he cant take care of it when its pushes 17 feet. Another add in the newspaper for a big biod. SAD!!!!! makes me mad


Lucas out

[Chris Steele]

Heat rocks are very dangerous for snakes right? well I was in a pet store and noticed a boa lying on a huge heat rock. I went and told the manager that he should take the rock out and that its dangerous...I thought he would kill me, he was pissed off. It could have been that I am only 15 and that insulted him. He refused to take it out...but I hope he did after I left and just didnt want me to know he took my advice (being only 15). I havent been back...It is an hours drive away from me.

[Samba]

Chris... heat rocks generally are not recommended for several reasons, including that it could possibly burn an animal if it malfunctions. Most don't have any kind of temp control, and some have been reported to start fires. I hope this guy did take your advice, there are so many more efficient and safe methods of providing reptiles with heat.

I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but I will be updating on the pet store very shortly (I've just had 'one of those days'). I will try to update tomorrow. I did receive another response from the coorporate headquarters in regards to the conditions, but sadly all she had to say was something to the effect of ... 'sorry our stores aren't up to your standards'. The audacity!!!!! All I'm asking from them is that they take BASIC, PROPER care of their animals; not treat them like kings and queens!!!! (Although that wouldn't be so bad, would it?) Write ya'll later, it's sleepy time for me... =/

[jpaulson]

yankeefoxtrot,

Before jumping to conclusions, do you know all the details about the boy purchasing the burm? Keep in mind that the kid's parents could of been there, already acknowledging the responsibilities. There also is the chance that the employee could of been trying to talk him out of it. Just some thoughts.......

I personally do not like the use of the actual names of the stores that someone is talking about. There could be times where what we perceive is not the truth, and could therefore slander the reputation of said store. It is always best to avoid using actual names, to keep everyone fair and keep the lawyers at bay. :)