White's with puffy cloudy eyes

[Tara Garratt]

Hi, please help!!

Two weeks ago I purchaesd some tiny baby White's tree frogs. Shortly after they arrived (they were shipped) one frog developed a puffy, cloudy eye. The eye almost looks swollen and it has clouded over. There is no sign of any puss or discharge of any kind. I started the frog on kanamycin yesterday because I thought it might have been a scratch incurred in shipping. Well, today a second frog is showing the puffy eyes (both eyes), although they have not clouded yet. The eyes start to look big and seem to stick out more from the top of the head. The eyes also look a bit darker in colour, and really big. I can't post a picture as I do not have a digital camera.

The temperatures are daytime a maximum of 85 and dropping at night to about 70. I mist the tank twice per day and the paper towl on the bottom is always wet. The humidity varies between 50 to 70 %. The frogs seem to be eating (a couple of crickets each daily) and they are pooping at least every second day.

Please give suggestions!

Thanks,
Tara Garratt

[dave]

get the animals with symptoms away from the rest of them it is obviously contagous take them to the vet I have seen this is turtles but not frogs befor.

[Tara Garratt]

Dave, I have spoken to the only vet here that does anything with amphibians. He does not know what it is. He was no help. We are not located in a place that has much for reptile/amphibians pets. One vet suggested that a frog is pretty useless anyway. What do you do for turtles that have this?

I need suggestions that do not involve a vet diagnosing the ailment. The vet said he would prescribe medication, but could offer no more help or suggestions. If anyone has suggestions for what I could tell the vet, please respond.

Splitting them up now seems a bit pointless as they both have symptoms.

I am concerned it could be a husbandry issue. I did lots of reading and I think my set up is OK, but I am open to suggestions.

Thanks for your help,
Tara

[Tara Garratt]

I still need help!

The frogs are still alive, but are not doing well. I have spoken to a vet from the Vet College and she said she would contact me after she does more research (this was Friday and again yesterday). Unfortunately, that's not much help as I need help now. There does not seem to be a vet in Sask. that knows much about frogs. I need to rely on you folks, so please help!

The frogs have been on kanamycin for 5 days. They have not eaten since Sunday. One is often a brownish colour. I think they won't eat because they can not see. How does one force feed a frog the size of a lima bean? What should I try to feed it?

I have been changing the paper towel substrate three times daily to reduce further bacterial contamination. I did take Dave's advice and split them so I would know who was pooping (no one). The temperatures are low 80s in the day time and 68-72 at night. The humidity is about 70-80%.

I feel so terrible because I don't know what to do to help them. One vet suggested I just "get rid of them." This of course in NOT an option. Pets are to be respected. I really don't want them to die, but I don't want them to keep suffering if there is not hope for recovery.

I hope to hear from somebody who can help.

Tara Garratt

["Red-eye"_Matt]

Here is a link to some common frog diseases.

Frog Illnesses (http://www.geocities.com/bethw75/illnesses.htm)

From what you describe it sounds like it could be an immune system failure. I have never seen it before and I cannot be sure that this is the problem. Even if it turns out to be something completely different it is a pretty good page to bookmark just in case.

Sorry that I cannot be of more help.

Matt

PS. Let us know how things turn out.

[Tara Garratt]

Hi, Thanks for the page! It might be immune system failure but some of the symptoms are not right. I did try soaking them in fresh water when the problem started, just in case. If anyone else has something or knows of something that I might try, please pass it along.

Tara Garratt

[Tara Garratt]

Hi all, I thought I would give you an update.
The smallest frog has died (there were lots of tears here). The medium sized frog (about as big as a quarter) is showing no improvement. It has developed a head tilt, but it really has not gotten worse in the past couple of days. My only good news is that the largest one (almost as big as a loonie) actually ate a cricket last night. The eyes are still cloudy, but not as bad as it was. Hopefully this frog will survive.

[vanderkm]

Great news on the largest frog Tara. It would be wonderful if it did survive. It is too bad about the other two, but you have done all anyone could have to help them. Good luck with them,


mary v.

[Tara Garratt]

Hi all,
The bigger frog continues to eat, and tonight the smaller one ate three crickets of varying size. I could hardly believe my eyes. Both frogs still have white, cloudy eyes but they seem to be able to see a bit. The small frog still has a head tilt, but it is not as pronounced. I know they are not out of the woods yet, but it seems like they are taking hops in the right direction.

Tara Garatt

[eyespy]

I'm glad to hear they seem to be coming around. Please do keep us posted. White's are such sweet and funny frogs it breaks my heart to hear of them being so sick.

[Dozer]

Hmmm... are your crickets calcium dusted? Try to get the crickets gut laoded and dust every other feeding. I doubt it would help, but its worth a shot ... Keep us updated :)

[Tara Garratt]

Hi,
The crickets are all gut loaded but not dusted. I am concerned as eating is such a struggle that they might get dust in their eyes. As this time I thought that dust might cause even more damage. What do you think?

Tara Garratt

[jncoclub]

Have you brought any attention of this to the place where you purchsed the frogs from? Maybe they have seen it before (assuming they have frog knowledge being that they sold them to you). Either way, they can't bring back the first small guy, but maybe they will replace it with a healthy new one?

[Tara Garratt]

I did not contact the place where they were purchased. I had a friend purchase them from a reputable establishment in Ontario. I live in Saskatchewan. The friend (who knows lots about frogs) shipped them out to me. As he picked the frogs up I have not dealt directly with the pet store the frogs were purchased from. This said, I did not feel comfortable contacting them about he problems I have had. I believe the owner of the store is active on this cite, and that if he knew how to help me he would have posted some suggestions. The friend who purchased the frogs for me is currently away so I never asked him to contact the store.

Again, thank you all for the information you gave. I truly believe that the information I got from Mark Pepper and from a non-forum member has been invaluable to me and definitely to these two surviving (so far) frogs. If the frogs live it is because of the suggestions/directions that these two people gave. I appreciate the help I received so very much. I also appreciated people responding to my post with possible cites to look at. Somehow it made me feel not quite so alone as I struggled with trying to figure out what to do (and what not to do).

While I am here I will update you all. The smaller frog continues to turn circles and be less active than I would like. It does seem to be eating and is again a bit plumper (10 days without any food took its toll). It still does not climb at all and it really is not very active. It is green most of the time again though. The larger frog has resumed climbing the tank and is eating and pooping regularly. She is again quite inquisitive--looks at me when I come to the tank.

Again, thanks for everything,
Tara Garratt