Hots topic.. but for general discussion

[boidlover]

Hello everyone.. yes I know it's my first post on here, I've been reading the site for months and I needed everyone's opinion on something that I have had on my mind for the past few months..

I see some of you have kids and keep hots..

well about 6mths back friends of mine had one of their hots escape, they have two small kids btwn 1yr and 7 yrs. [yes I know.. hots with young kids bugs me too]

They didn't seem to care that a hot was loose in the house with them and their kids.. they are out in booney-ville and the closest hospital with antivemon is over 2 hours drive away, and they don't keep any at home.. something stupid about "if we are meant to die we will"

Now I was concerned about their kids and if the snake got loose my OWN kids and the other neighborhood kids getting killed. so I called social services on them and they had their kids taken away with orders that they would NOT have them back until the hots were gone..

Do you think I was right in calling social services?

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

How was the hots housed? Explain it all..

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

Well, Im only 14 but heres my two cents. It was right in my opinion, having a loose hot in the house with children is like putting a loaded pistol in the crib. You know kids, they like to mess around. Think about if the two were playing hide and seek and one went to hide and stepped on the snake..The snake could strike and the kids could die. You may have saved those kids lives by calling. Do the people know that it was you that called? What are they doing with the hots? What kind of snake was it? Good luck.

[Samba]

I think calling social services was the best thing to do for the children involved, but I doubt the snakes will fair well (unless they are of educational value, or a rare species, etc.) they will probably be confiscated and put down (you didn't mention wether or not the owners had the required permits, etc. for the hots; and what species they kept). I think people such as the ones you describe would be better off sticking to cats and dogs (IF they are even fit to care for mammals). The children are safer now, but this experience may leave them with a bad taste in their mouths regarding reptiles in the future. Every responsible reptile owner strives to educate and endear reptiles to other people, and it seems like these owners didn't give much thought to their children, their pets, and other people, let alone themselves. I would have done the same thing. Give us an update soon!

[unknownclown]

I dont know anything about hots but I do know i would never keep them with my daughter around. Now Im not saying that anyone else with kids shouldnt, I am just a paranoid mom. I can just picture my daughter sneeking in the tank getting bit then being afraid to tell me cause she may get into trouble for getting into things shes not supposed to be and dieing before I figure out what had happened. And they had a 1 year old? Heck that baby cant tell them whats wrong by the time they'd figure out that it doesnt need a bottle or a diaper change its too late. See paranoid mom ;)
I dont know how anyone could just let one wander around after escaping with out a care in the world for themselves or their kids. Id be freaking out and tearing the house apart I sure as heck wouldnt sleep there without recovering it first! Heck if I had to Id call in exterminators hell my childs life is worth a hell of alot more than any snakes.
Nah you were in the right. That hot was putting the kids there in danger and the parents should have known that and dealt with it responsibly by finding the snake or housing the kids somewhere else until it was safe. That sort of irresponsibility ticks me off kids shouldnt have to be afraid to reach under the couch for a toy they've lost or be escoreted from room to room because something may bite them. Heck I have enough problems with "monsters" I think that would put my kid thru the roof.

[marisa]

I think you calling was correct IF they housed the snakes in the home, and the loose snake now has the "run of the house" so to speak.

I can't imagine someone not caring....but anyways if the snake was housed in another building, outside, or sealed room (which doubtful) then I might have held off on calling.

I am sure its best for the children but sad they have been taken away. Maybe those people will learn some resposibility though.

Marisa

[Alicewave]

I think you did the right thing with respect to the kids and the reptiles. If the people are so careless as to not take more proper measures to protect their children, chances are they are not taking good care of the herps either. Please update soon.

[aqua_demon]

I agree but i dont, a hott is no worse then keeping a a constictor with little kids a 8ft snake could easily kill and eat a 1 yr old or a 7yr old or hurt them just has badd or a dogg for that matter so go call CPS on every single dog owner with young kids maybe they had a reason for not being afraid you didt know all the deatils i would have done the same thing but that doest make it right a car can kill little kids easier and faster then a hott. Think about it

[aqua_demon]

And all of you critisize them saying their badd parents or bad herp owners you have no right to call them this you no nothing about them we've all had escaped snakes dont blame or critisize them for a mistake we've all made or eventually will that doest make them badd anything, but keeping no antivenom is stupid it shouldt be the hospitals responsibility but that doest make them altogether horrible herp keepers just inexpericened and it deffinetly doest make them badd parents so dont call them that that horrible a way to strong even ask unknown how she would feel if called a horrible pet owner for accidently having a herp escape. And you think you saved the kids life well maybe not and think of what that whole family is going through now that they have been ripped apart youve put a scar on those kids that will never heal i think you didt think of the full impact your little phone call could have haved just my two cents but like i said in your posision i think i would have called to i would have been to scared for the children but that doest make it right.

[beth wallbank]

Aqua demon........no disrespect, but are you nuts? This is a venomous that is out in a house where carefree children reside. I do not see how you compare a hot bite with no antivenom to a car victim or a boa being loose. This is like having a loaded pistol lying on the ground and a child grabbing it.
I think that any responsible hot owner would ensure no escaping, and do so not in the house where their children reside.
I have absolutely no respect for herpers that are totally careless, and would put their kids, or anyone for that fact, in jeopardy for a hot.
There are many responsible hot keepers out there, and many do it with absolute respect for the animals, with caution and proper handling. It is the carefree herpers that screw things up for those who have worked so hard to get where they have in regards to community respect.

[dm101081]

Where are you located? Is there any local species of wild hots?

[unknownclown]

I would think that a loose hot is worse than constrictor but like I said Im a paranoid mom. Heck now that I think of it if they had a free roaming burmese with the kids in the house Id be tempted to make the phone call as well. Ive heard quite a few times how people lose their snakes and then find them curled up in bed sleeping with the owners. Now with the snakes I have now would that scare me? no I only have 2 BPs and a 3 foot columbian. I would consider myself lucky to find them in my bed and put them back in their enclosures and go back to sleep. Now with a hot Id probably soil the sheets and start praying. If it were my kid Id never be able let myself live it down.

By the way comparing it to a dog is crazy and if a dog with that sorta potential to kill is roaming around the house once again the parents need their head checked and the kids should be taken somewhere safe.

Most court systems want the kids with the parents they know shuffling kids here and there isnt good for them. Like Boidlover said....
so I called social services on them and they had their kids taken away with orders that they would NOT have them back until the hots were gone..
So there shouldnt be a problem. Basically they just need to get their priorities in order.

[Mardy]

As this happened 6mths ago I guess you are felling a bit guilty, by bringing this issue up now.
I do not want to judge this issue as you have given far to little details to do so fairly.

Boidlover also said the kids could not come back while snakes were there. Is this all snakes, just the hots?? If these were legal hots why should they have to get rid of the snakes? What will this possibly do to the laws? Hots not being allowed where there are kids,minors??

Always many sides to any issue, and all the facts are needed before judgement.

Mardy

[aqua_demon]

I disagree once again that i have read and heard of dogs killing kids much worse and more painful then the bite of a hott snake and a car reck plz that ten hundred more times as keeping a hott herp and what make them irrensponsible because they lossed a snake plzz

[marisa]

I have never heard of a dog killing a child in a more painful way tha a bite from a fatally venemous snake. You aren't making sense.

"Dogs kill too so lets not care if a hot snake is loose around a one year old!" Yeah right...o.k....

Marisa

[boidlover]

ok.. here are a few more details.. the hots are kept in rubbermaid sweater boxes in the basement in an open room with other snakes.. the kids could have gone looking for a corn and opened the wrong box!

and no not all the hots they have are legal.

[hip]

Hmmmm Hot snake loose with kid's(bad spot to be in) Children having none or very little fear of snakes(till we teach them to be afraid of them or respect and admire them)This is a very bad situation as a young child will think nothing of picking up a snake(I have seen this numerous times with toddlers and wild garter snakes)With no antivenon close it is a perscription for death and suffering.You never said what kind of snake it was(for a child almost all of them are deadly with out a.v.) and even with a.v. there are no promices either.

Good for you you quite probably saved two children from a sad fate(the snakes will pay the price though which is wrong but probably unavoidable now)There is no excuse for the escape of a hot (Brian Smith will I hope jump on this one)It is one of the biggest fears of the hot keeper(the professional ones anyway) and they go to great lengths to avoid it at all costs.An 8 foot python or boa is far less a risk to a child Than a cobra or even a copper head for that matter.I am still shuddering at the thought of a hot loose in that house.

Hey hot keepers What do you all think on this one?



Hip

[Darlene]

Totally agree that you did the right thing. I have two small children myself & I would not have hesitated. I do believe that any venomous or super aggresive animal should not live in the same house as minor children. A responsible keeper of such animals would love them & their children & house them seperately. Before we got our corns we had considered tarantulas , something I have wanted for a long time. While admiring them in a pet store a gentleman told me that their venom is lethal to children & no matter how "tame" the animal there would always be the risk. My mind did not hesitate to decide no tarantulas til my kids are grown. I'll continue to admire them in stores til then. Anyone who has kids knows there really is no such thing as "child proof". Congrats for taking action. Dar.

[Gregg M]

I think it is a really bad situation for the family and all of us hot keepers....... I also think it is not a good idea to keep hots in the same living space as small kids....... Also the people that keep hots without taking the proper precausions should not be keeping them at all....... I take great pride in keeping myself and anyone around my snakes safe from harm....... I only allow 2 people around my snakes uncaged, and only because they are experianced keepers....... Everyone else gets to look at them through glass....... Now if one of my snakes escaped from its cage it would be no big deal because they would never get out of the hot room...... To know this snake was not kept in a hot room makes it even worse....... If these snakes are not kept correctly than they should not be kept at all.......

[Gregg M]

Oh and tarantula venom is not at all leathal to kids........ Well maybe if you are a little kid cricket.....

[Darlene]

So I was wrongly informed ? The shop worker claimed to be an experienced keeper. He claimed while the venom to an adult was like a bad case of the flu it could have deadly consequences for small children. My youngest is 2 & my 1 year old niece is here alot. Do you believe it would be 100% safe ? Even a tiny risk is too much for me. Tarantulas will still be available to me long after my kids are grown & moved out I'm sure ! What do you think Gregg ?

[Gregg M]

Your kids have more of a chance of dieing from a bee sting....... You do not get sick from a tarantula bite........ Unless you are allergic...... The person at the shop does not know a thing if that is what he told you...... And the species that would be kept as pets like rosehairs and pink toes and even red knees are absolutly harmless to people of all sizes........ I have taken bites from rose hairs and suffered no more than two fang marks in my finger....... I did not even swell...... But if you do not feel safe with that, that is OK........ A mothers instinct is strong and nothing to mess with....... I just hate to see someone not do something because they where misinformed........ You can do some research yourself and find that the person at the pet store was just handing you a line of BS....... Too bad there are such inexperianced people working in pet stores these days.....

[aqua_demon]

Really youve never herad of a dog rippign through the chest of a child while hes still alive ripping at all his in side a shaking his head then biting their neck and shaking till it come out the because i have and i think thats alot worse. besides a vehicle is more dangerous everytime you take anyone in a car you are taking a very high chance of crashing and thats alot worse then dieing by a snake bite my mom a EMT and ive heard and seen the stories dont get me started on that.

[Zoe]

We can't protect kids from everything... no matter how hard you try, you'll never get them to pass a law against dogs or against cars. I mean, you'd have to keep a kid locked up in a padded room and feed is mush in a soft plastic bowl for it to be completely safe forever - and even then!
Yes, dogs kill a lot of people - kids and adults. Yes, car accidents are terrible things and so many people die each week. But those are unavoidable, unless we reduce the speed limit to 10 mph and have half-sedated dogs all the times.

But this is different, keeping a venomous snake within reach of children (children have no fear, they don't understand their own mortality) is like keeping a loaded gun in your kid's drawer, or a jar of bright-coloured cynide pills, or putting a "ricin shaker" beside the salt shaker. It's just plain irresponsible. This is something you CAN protect your kid from - and as a parent have the responsibility to! Just as you teach your kids to look both ways before they cross the street, never to pet a dog they don't know, you DON'T KEEP HOTS IN A HOUSE WITH KIDS. It's plain old common sense that should tell you that.

I mean, if, IF a person had a kid who was well aware of the dangers, and kept their hots in a locked room in 200% escape-proof locked cages, then it might start being acceptable, but under any other circumstance no.

Boas and hots are not the same. Boas are docile, they usually only bite at food or if they are afraid. Hots are different, they are smaller (often), faster (when they strike), and they know they are venomous, they know that's how they protect themselves from a bird swooping down or from a child's grabby hands.

Oh, dogs tend to go straight for the throat, whereas some hot bites are VERY painful. Swelling, burning, pain... Heck, some bites cause your skin to "melt" off.

In conclusion, I agree with pretty much all that has been posted saying it was irresponsible.

:)

lol, I always get a kick out of bond movies where they put a tarantula on his bed to try and kill him, and he has to maneovre his was out so the tarantula won't bite him with it's fatal venom. :)

[unknownclown]

Yeah I see your point now aqua_demon. Ill try not to let anymore rabid wild dogs into the house and stop the demolition derbies in my living room, they were making it hard to watch the tv anyways.

I dont think it realy matters if dieing from a snake bite is more of a pleasant way to die. I seriously think you are missing the point here. Maybe when you start having a family of your own youll understand the value of a childs life and how precious they are, not to mention the value of a safe house where you dont have to fear whats hiding in the dark corners and spaces.

[SnowSnake]

The point isn't that a dog or car is more dangerous, the chances a hot will bite if touched are much greater than if you touched a dog!

[Samba]

Agua Demon - I understand your point of view... I really do. BUT, what I think you are not 'getting' from the rest of us is this: Car accidents, even dog attaks, etc. are accidental and hard to prevent and predict. We are just trying to say the parents in this case appeared to have full knowledge of the species they were keeping, and knowingly kept these dangerous snakes around young children (in a reportedly unsecured environment).

Sure, we've all had something escape on us; wether it be a harmless gecko or a hot... the bottom line is this: responsible owners will actively search for the animal, and if it is dangerous, as in this case, remove persons (not directly involved with the snakes) from harm until the creature has been found, (i.e., not take a 'Devil May Care' attitude towards the situation).


I also want to add that, until you die from a dog attack, a car accident AND a snake bite, can you sit here and tell someone which was worse, and more painful because I truely believe that answer resides in the particulars. I repect you for giving your honest opinions, despite the criticizims, and hopefully you'll repect and understand ours. If this story had not involved such young and vulnerable children, our opinions would surely be different.

I think I can speak for most of us in saying that, we, as herp keepers, don't need irresponsible herpers in this world making it harder for us to enjoy and keep our own precious pets. There is already tons of responsibility related to their care; some animals require permits and special education with them just to own them. We want people to repect our pets as much as we do, not look at stories such as these and assume we are all uncaring keepers!

[Night_Crawler]

I can understand your opinions, and I'm just saying that none of us know enough about these people to make assumptions about their lifes or call them irresponsible. I know of alot of herp keepers that keep their herps in rubbermaids and everyone has at one time or another had a herp get loose. I agree that more precautions should have been taken but some of these replies have been really badd, saying that thir badd parents because of one mistake and such forth its just unnessacary because none of us know enough about them. I was just trying to make the point that everytime you get into a car you are risking the life of yourself and everyone with you. But please stop making rude assumptions about their lifes based on things you dont know at the most what they accedently did makes them irresponsible.

[nuno]

Originally posted by aqua_demon
I disagree once again that i have read and heard of dogs killing kids much worse and more painful then the bite of a hott snake and a car reck plz that ten hundred more times as keeping a hott herp and what make them irrensponsible because they lossed a snake plzz

I have never heard such and Idiotic statement!!