View Full Version : Steve Erwin question
shaggybill
05-14-03, 08:55 PM
I know alot of you arent Croc Hunter fans, but the other day on TV he was at an Air Force base separating neonate EDB's from their mom. Well, after he got all of them out, there was one more that had not yet broken out of its clear egg-looking thingy. He picked it up and was holding it in his hands when the snake came out, and he acted as if he wasnt in any danger at all and he continued to hold the snake a few minutes more almost like how you would hold a garter. I'm sure he was being careful, but was holding that snake like that possible because it had just crawled out of that "egg" and wasnt aware of who his "enemies" were yet?
BTW, I know EDBs are viviparous, but I dont know what else to call that clear, plastic looking thing.
BWSmith
05-14-03, 09:23 PM
I saw that episode a while back. After yelling at the TV, I changed the channel.
To answer your question, no. He was just a flat surface.
HA, People hate Steve here?
I gotta say I think the guy is a needed media figuire to this world. He has tons of good things to say and runs a ZOO, not just a room or one cage. Steve reminds me of a geography teacher in highschool I had, mr. Menzo. Steve Irwin is real, while being funny, and educational. I got his back anyday.
http://www.crocodilehunter.com/crocodile_hunter/snapshots/images/thumbnails/croc_hunt_05.jpg
NONE of you should talk bad about Steve Irwin, cause without him talking to the world like we are all stupid 2nd graders, people would want to kill all our pets (so to speak).
You wanna bash some one, do it to Jack Hanna, that guy doesn't know a monkey from an Anole. Unless of cource it is on a Q card. Personally, Jack Hanna should be fed to an Anaconda, on camera, for educational purposes of cource.
http://www.colszoo.org/pagegifs/jackgif/jhedsh.jpg
I'm a fan of his too... Yeah, he does rely on thrills in excess, and it's sometimes a little "stages-seeming", but who would watch the show if he spent the whole time looking under rocks with a 10ft pole?
He really does raise awareness of reptiles and conservation. We can't really expect perfection AND a show that is interesting to the general public.
He could definitely make some changes though. For example, get Terri a new style. Ick.
:)
Zoe
snakehunter
05-18-03, 07:37 AM
i agree with the jack hannah and green anaconda idea!, and i also agreee with terri getting a new style, every time she talks to the cammera i feel like she thinks im in kindergarten. BUT i am totally 100% IN FAVOR OF THE CROC HUNTER!
stretch
05-18-03, 12:57 PM
I'm also a Steve Irwin fan. He isn't fake like a lot of other reptile shows. I second the anaconda idea for jack hannah. Steve Irwin is a very helpful part to us herpers.
reverendsterlin
05-18-03, 01:37 PM
I have nothing against the man, his conservation work is outstanding even to the level of his own personal monetary investment. However, his TV show is focused towards children and the unsafe venomous handling practicies and the possible influence on kids makes me not approve of him.
Mustangrde1
05-18-03, 04:21 PM
I must agree that Steve's conservation work is outstanding . However when it comes to his handling of venomous reptiles on the TV where he does influance people" children and childish adults." He needs to use the proper safty tools. I know for a fact there have been kids that tried to be like him.I myself had to remove a Coral snake from a pair of young children who were grabbing it and playing around with it.When I ask what they were doing their responce was " We are playing Croc Hunter".
tightsqueeze
05-19-03, 05:51 AM
that clear sack that sometimes remains on the hatchling is called an Embriotic Sack most of them will break out of the sack inside the mother....
Yes Mr Irwin has brought conservation to the forefront of his show.That is good! education is always good for the masses he really does do some good.His hot handling is insane and a very bad example to show on tv and we could go on and on about it but most know the deal here on this forum(when it comes to hots)Don't forget Mr Irwin is making millions of dollars at what he does and he does put a lot into the Reptile and Fauna park.
Don't forget about Mark O Shea he is very experenced and quite well educated.He also practices proper handling and capture when dealing with hots.The one thing about Mark O Shea is he has talked openly about the hot hits he has taken(even showed a couple of instances on a few shows)So I digress do you think Mr Irwin would show or talk about taking a hit from a hot? not likely.In all honesty do you think Steve Irwin has never been hit by a hot? Remember you wont get to see it or hear about it as it would do great damage to his image.
Just my 2 cents which is now at a 6 year high(lol)
Hip
BWSmith
05-19-03, 08:48 AM
I am by no means a fan of Irwin. I would get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome if I went all out again. This topic comes up often on about every herp forum. But here is the post I did on RH. the full thread is located HERE (http://reptilehaven.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB_14&file=index&action=viewtopic&topic=7690&68127)
Steve Irwin, Friend or Foe
Okay. Time to vent a little bit Bear with me, I will probably rant and bounce around a lot.
In the past couple years (since Croc Hunter began) I have noticed a dramatic increase in the amount of captive venomous bites int he U.S. I am bombarded with headlines of "Man Bit by Pet Cobra" and "Local Man Pays Price for Deadly and Illegal Pet Viper." I will be the first to conciede that he (and others like him) have brought reptiles and particularly dangerous herps into the mainstream and has brought about a greater understanding of our scaly friends. That in turn, makes our lives easier. However, as a venomous keeper, I have a vested interest in this issue. I cannot tell you how many "kids" email me wanting to know if I will sell them a copperhead, what the best first venomous is, or if I can get a cobra for them. Every venomous education program has at least one kid saying "are you like the Crocadile Hunter?" or "Steve irwin doesn't need to use a hook." This brings a murky problem in a specific direction. The sad part is that with the acceptance of these animals, comes more people wanting to own them. Thus, there are inevitably going to be more bites. The sad part is, that it is not just kids. Many "adults" are delving into the world of venomous. Many with little or no experience with nonvenomous species. Whether it is for "macho-ism", a genuine interest, or another reason, is of little relevance. The point is that unqualified, iresposible, and untrained individuals are keeping inherently dangerous animals. I have many stories about his, but the one that Allen Hunter told me recently was a prime example. He was talking hots with a man who just got a Bush Viper (Atheris sp.). "Oh, what kind of Bush Viper" >"just a Bush Viper"< "Well, what is the latin name?" (As a point of reference, common names in venomous are very misleading as there are many names for one snake and the same name for many snakes: There are many species of Bush Viper) >"I don't know the Latin name"< "Well, do you know where to get antivenin?" >"OH, OF COURSE I DO!"< Imagine his suprise when he learned that there is NO ANTIVENIN for Atheris sp.! This is just one example of people keeping hot snakes with little or no knowledge about them. And along the same lines is the issue of Venomoids (venomous snakes who have had there venom glands removed or venom ducts severed). I have noticed a marked increase in the number of venomoids on the market. Right now on the Kingsnake Venomous Classifieds there are over a dozen ads for venomoids. This is a marked increase form 2 years ago when there was maybe one or two a month. Why? Because there is a market. Where there is a demand, they will produce a product. Do you think that the true venomous keepers are buying these snakes? I think not. Most find it an abomination of nature. The only logical conclusion is that they are being purchased by those who want to own a cobra or a Gaboon Viper, but do not have the skill to own a real hot. When Steve Irwin tails every single snake (including Back Mambas) he makes it look easy and safe. IT IS NOT EITHER! He has brought information about these creatures to the average american household. But he has also caused a major falacy. That these are easy snakes to work with. "I have had a ball python for 5 years now, I think I will move up to a Western Diamondback Rattlesnake." You may as well be writing on a tombstone. What this does is not only hurt the individual, but hurts the entire venomous community and the herp community as a whole. We have all seen how easily laws get passed banning herps. Alabama is a prime example. A kid went to a dealer and bought some hots. A Spitting Cobra got loose. Within 2 weeks there was a law passed in AL banning venomous reptiles. It happens before you can blink. If this trend continues, all herps will be banned in the U.S. and we will all be fugitives.
Now in all fairness, the blame is not squarely on Steve Irwins shoulders. There are other factors. The rise in venomous ownership will rise some with the increase of popularity of herps as pets. But not to this extent. As far as kids, some blame may be placed on the parents. Many use the TV as a babysitter and do not monitor what they are watching. But that is not a major part of the blame. After all, Lord knows I did things that my parents did not know about! A degree of blame can be placed on the responsible venomous keepers as a whole. There are two major types of hot keepers. Those that spend their time educating the public and those that isolate themselves. Perhaps the ones that isolate themselves are fearful of persecution, legal action, or some other reason. That is fine. I know people that keep illegal venomous. But I believe that when you begin to keep hots, it is your responsibility to educate. When you have a passion for killers (and it must be a passion for true herpers to do this) then you should want to teach as much as you can to public. This includes that Steve is NOT handling them right! It is dangerous and irresponsible. He must realize that he IS a hero to many people. Thus he must teach by example. He must take some responsibility. Just use a hook! That is all I ask.
This trend will continue unless something is done. I am not talking censorship. But there are things that we can do. Educate as much as you can. But if you don't know the answer, then admit it. There is nothing worse than passing false information. On my herping trip this weekend, I learned three things about specific species that I did not know. NOONE knows everything, so pretend like you do. As for the kids, it has to be education, there is no other way. I have not done a single educational program (venomous or nonvenomous) where I did not here "Are you like the Croc Hunter?" or "Steve Irwin doesn't use a hook!" They must understand that he is entertainment, nothing more. He offers the least information about species of any of the TV Herpers (Corwin, O'Shea, Nigel, etc.). Then coem the "adults." In my opinion these people are nothing more than 25 or 35 year old children wanting a cool "toy". These are the most dangerous. Unfortunately, you cannot shake them and yell "DON"T DO THST! WHAT ARE YOU, AN IDIOT?!?!? YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR WHAT YOU ARE GETTING INTO!!!" If we do that, they will just discard us a jerks and continue doing it, perhaps at that point out of spite or to prove that they can. You cannot make them understand the fundamental truth that if you keep venomous, you WILL get bit. Not if, but when. All we can do is try to educate them. If not for thier safety, for ours a herp loving community. Anyone who wants to keep hots, should read the article, Bitten By The Big One on www.VenomousReptiles.org That will change many minds. The bottom lin: Education is the key. The herp community has many enemies and few allies. The Humane Society (herp enemy number 1), PETA and a few others are fomidable adveraries. And make no mistake, they hate us. They hate us with true passion. And they do have power. We have but one major ally, PIJAC (Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council). And I highly advise joining. If we do not educate, if parents do not get involved, and if Steve Irwin and his producers do not take some resonsibility and realize what they are promoting, our hobby will be a memory.
Perfect B.W. I remember reading that last summer Bravo, Bravo
Hip
Mustangrde1
05-21-03, 03:57 PM
BW that is by far one of the best articles I have ever read. Thanks so much for your time in typing it up.
Emily-Fisher
05-21-03, 06:44 PM
BW...that was superbly well said!! That was very interesting...Thank you very much! =D
scorpman
05-26-03, 09:27 PM
i agree with bw but you all should also remember that steve i is not the only one out there doing what he does there is o shea , a show called killer instent , dr brady barr's show and others so it is not just steveo's show inspiring the "kids" to go out and buy herps and any other animals that they have no idea how to care for. i think that the parents , the people selling the animals , and the people buying should get all the facts and not just rely on tv for info what do you all think of a training class where the person takes a class and gets a licence at the end we do that for hunting , the coast guard gives one for boating maybe if we have a pro in front of these people to give them the true facts and a smack in the head if nessary we can keep the fly by nighters from taking away from us what we truly love our herps and invert.
I have watched steve Erwin since his first shows about eight or nine years ago. I dont ever rememeber steve giving instruction on how to handle dangerous reptiles, he does however stress that his handling methods are dangerous and always putting his own life in danger. The only reason he uses these mothodes is he believes that it is safer for the animals.
I believe that it is true that be cause of steve the keeping of venomous reptiles has increased dramatically over the years, however it is not Steve Erwin who is making venomous reptiles available to the people, and for people who grow up where hots are native these people need to be educated from when they are children. Also the education provided must be designed to keep the animals safe as well as the people who come in conflict with them. BW you yourself said that you know people who are keeping illegal hots, IMO If you are not turning these people in and someday these people or person gets tagged then i guess your are in some way responsible for that, and any bylaws that are sure to follow.
Im not trying to offend anyone but to remind that there is a little bad in everything that all people do no matter what the intentions are. After all even if he was using a hook,that still dont keep him safe when he is diving out of boats to catch crocs. lol :)
Not quit sure which is worse.
Wow, you know your stuff B.W! i totally agree!!
steve irwin is sometimes really stupid, i have seen this episode. he is stupid in the sence THAT HE WAS HOLDING A FREAKING EASTERN DIAMOND BACK RATTLER in a way that you would hold a harmless snake. i guess i am just trying to say that he is stupid to do that. that is why he did it
reptiledude21
07-20-03, 10:06 PM
steve erwin is ok...BUT JEFF CORWIN ROCKS! lol
Jeff_Favelle
07-20-03, 10:07 PM
steve irwin is sometimes really stupid, i have seen this episode. he is stupid in the sence THAT HE WAS HOLDING A FREAKING EASTERN DIAMOND BACK RATTLER in a way that you would hold a harmless snake. i guess i am just trying to say that he is stupid to do that. that is why he did it
Some people say I'm stupid for holding my 9 foot boa. The point is, maybe his level of behavioural knowledge of that particular rattler far exceeds ours. So what you think is stupid, well he may very well be within 10 danger points of his limit.
paul_le_snake
07-20-03, 10:12 PM
how about everyone spells his name correctly.......... it's Irwin
cheers
paul
Irwin is great for conservation, he does wonderful things in Oz for the crocs and other animal removal, and yes he does put allot of the money back into the zoo, to give the animals a better life. He does some horrendously stupid things though. The baby EDB is one and I saw another one where he is free handing anouther rattler( I forget what kind) And literally in the palm of his hands not restrained at all, holding it a couple inches from his face. Come on now!!! I'd say most of Irwin's shows are staged. Like once From 50-75' away he spots a 3' GTP in an indonesian rainforest. Yeah Frickin Right!!! No Ones eyes are THAT good, and to have a w/c (suposedly) be puppy tame and not even strike, in reality would be a one in a billion find. Unless it were going to die in the next 10 minutes.
Oshea? Don't even get me started on him. He has no respect for the well being of any herps. Lets see I'm going to climb up this 50' tree and I'm going to toss this giant gecko down to you and you catch it... He goes... Opps! It's ok heres another one take two. I seen once where he lets a cat snake bite him. (not deadly but still... WHY?) Yes he does use proper tools at times.
Only one that is best of both worlds is Jeff Corwin. I think he has a bit of a warped sense of humor, But He ALWAYS uses the proper tools, and he ALWAYS respects and looks out for the welbeing of the animals he is dicussing.
shaggybill
07-21-03, 02:30 PM
You make some good points, but to be fair to Oshea, he was only about 10 feet up in the tree and dropped it a guy so it was only a few feet to fall. I watched it and didnt think it cruel at all.
AS for Steve Irwen, the rattler he was holding was a Sidewinder in the southwestern US. The snake was extremely calm and was smelling out the camera crew. And Steve had it further back than midbody and also had the tail. The snakes head was several feet away from his face, and he was not interested in Steve. Since Steve has dealt with herps his whole life, I think he knows what hes doing and when to put the snake down and stuff.
If I remember correctly, he said how dangerous it could be to a "non-herper," so never try it.
As for his shows being staged. Of course they probably are to an extent. There is no way they are going to have a camera on the entire day while they look for snakes.
If I were to guess what they do, I would say they look for snakes or whatever, when they find one they prepare a script, then turn the cameras on and act like they just found it.
Theres nothing wrong with that. I would rather them do that and have it go smoothly then to see them bumbling around like fools with the cameramen and producer guys trying to get in place.
I do agree with you on Jeff Corwin. He's awesome. He seems to focus on snakes more than Steve, (who specializes in crocs most of the time), and Oshea does alot of snake stuff too, but he's not as funny as Jeff.
However, I find OSheas shows extremely fascinating and I watch him as often as possible.
Mustangrde1
07-21-03, 04:36 PM
Hmm Tv Show host forum, Matt possibly you can make one. I think rating episodes whould be fun.
Jeff_Favelle
07-21-03, 08:15 PM
I agree. Corwin is great to watch. Lots better than those 60's and 70-'s nature shows we were subjected to for soooo many years.
Mustangrde1
07-22-03, 07:10 PM
Hey now some of us younger kids had nothing but those shows to watch. Sheesh taking shots at are youth and the joys we had from it lol. Thank god the shows have atleast got better in the camera views and angles and are not in Black n white or whatever the thing they tried to call color was back then.
I don't always agree with Steve Irwins handling methods but I feel that he has helped take the snake/reptile stigma down a few notches in the mind of the general public...and besides who of us in the herp community wouldn't want to live his life..by chrykie....just jealous you are....
lordkovacs
08-05-03, 06:00 PM
Steve I. is awesome. He clearly get his point across that only after 30 plus years of working with these species as a career, a hobby and a passion, does he have the knowledge to do what he does. He raises some great money for reptile rescue (I think even his movie donated a crapload of $ to the causes). I would venture to guess that he knows exactly what he's doing. For instance, he knew the speed and location of the Komodo Dragons that were chasing him in that one episode...for example. He's a pro, no doubt.
MIKE
Terri Irwin has to be the most patient woman on Earth to be married to Steve, so if her style suffers then so be it. I like her... and her style.... regardless of what anyone else thinks. =)
Jungle Jen
08-08-03, 03:49 PM
B.W. Smith, well said. The article "Bitten By The Big One" on www.VenomousReptiles.org is awesome. (I read that article while doing research after I had been bitten by a copperhead handled/owned by an irresponsible adult.)
"The bottom line: Education is the key" Ain't that the truth!!!
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