complete newb:) advice/tips/preachings??

[XxRachxX]

howdy:)
today me and my dad bought a tank! yaaaayy!
its 3ft x 12". with all filteration/lights/heating/stand and stuff.....cost about £140 which is quite a bargain considering some of the second hand crap weve seen for around this price mark:( bummer.......so we've been to the library got a few "good" books about fish etc. they dont really help me choose fish though!
we're gonna set up a tropical/freshwater tank weve got ideas.......but dont really know what kind of fish to get! to start it off??
were gonna introduce some "hardy" fish next week apparently!
weve been told to put some platys in? but i was thinking about something more .......different?? to be honest theyre just not my thing:)
also anybody have any tips/hints or anything to add to help us newbs??
cheers!

[marisa]

If I was you I would take my time and do this the right way!

All my tanks in my life have been thrown together, and they never ended up working. I always ran out bought fish, filled it up, flopped the fish and fake plants in. eeekkkk!

This time I got myself a ten gallon.

I set it up about two weeks or so in advance with the gravel and the filter and water conditoner and let it run. Then I added live plants, and a week later about a couple fish. Another week later, the rest of the fish.

Now I can't say my order is perfect, or my timeline....but you get what I am saying? You let it cycle, and set up slowly and you will have better results. Books are good. I am sure they will all have guidlines as for setting it up. And great sites online if you look!

And not to mention this forum has a couple *great* people for fish questions and I am sure my response will pale in comparision! *L*

Good luck!!!!

Marisa

[reverendsterlin]

if you want something a little different and are willing to learn before you jump in I have 2 suggestions A: (the most complicated) try a brackish tank, puffers and discus do very well. B: one of my personal favorites is a chiclid tank. Good luck

[Shane Tesser]

Rev...discus in brackish??? Monos maybe? Brackish is not for a beginner...and discus, puffers and most chiclids would fall on that list to! :(

I would pick what you like...and simply post here...tell us what combos of fish and how many you would like to keep..and we will help you with the compatability. :D

[Tim and Julie B]

How about Convicts? They are hardy, non aggressive chiclids. They are a great beginner fish. If your want color and variety then get tetras. There are so many different kinds and colors to choose from you can't go wrong and I totally agree on the platty thing.....BORING! I like Shanes suggestion let everyone know what you would like and we will give you our opinions. That way you are happy!:D

[sunset]

Marisa is right, you need to let your tank cycle completely before adding fish, otherwise the ammonia will literally burn your fish to death. If you really want some good advice on fish keeping, go to www.oscars.com , there are alot of helpful people there, that are as knowledgeable about fish, as the people here are about reptiles. They will walk you through step-by-step on everything you need to know, and what to watch out for. Hope to see you over there, good luck with your tank!

[XxRachxX]

thanks guys.
i wasnt really going to venture any further than a freshwater tank....yet!
well i guess i'll just tell you some of the fish we like that are "apparently" easy-ish to keep:
gouramis (of any type really)
tetras: bleeding hearts, emperor tetras, cardinals....more.
kribensis? never heard of em but theyre cute!
rainbow fish- boesemans, red rainbow fish...
i think my dad likes angels......im not too keen myself...
some kind of bottom feeder? or some kind of shrimpy....kind of thing......??
are any of these "compatible" i HAVE absolutely no idea..i only have two books....and the nets not helping much....so thats all i can really find that particularly stands out to me... im sure theres much more..... any suggestions? any fish youve found to be a joy to keep?:)?
cheers

[sunset]

try the forums at www.aquariacentral.com , you will get so many answers so fast it will make your head spin.

[Shane Tesser]

Sunset..im sorry that you feel that we are only a bunch of reptile ppl here! Its too bad you didn't take the time to actually ask who we are and what we know....instead of just trying to send members onto other sites! Some of us, including myself..have no herps at all. I am a fish keeper, and always will be. I have over 25 years experience in both keeping, and breeding and selling of fish. I have been fortunate enough to keep some extremely rare, and expensive fish, and i use this to draw on what i know to help members here.

Being one of the first members, one of the first mods, the owner of the chat and fortunate enough to meet and greet ppl as this site grew i can stand up for the ppl who we have here and say infact we have some amazing ppl on this forum who really do know theyre stuff when it comes to aquatics. People such as Corr, Lizzy, Youkai, ETET to name a few will dazzle you with their knowledge and willingness to help. So impressive that i have given up my position as a mod on other fish boards to pursue this one....and in fact being a member of some of the larger boards i know darn well that there is far too many ppl who think they are in the know. I may not know everything, i may not have kept everything. But what i do know is that combined with the members we have here..youll get your answer..and yes..it will be very fast. I personally look at this board several times a day and will always put my two cents in where possible. When i dont know..i research it..i have a library of fish and aquatic books that is over two hundred now, from species specific to general basic guides and resort to these when there is a question to be able to give the most correct info available. So the next time you want to tell members to go else where..think about what you are doing..try doing some actual research, then make a decision from there...you left a member who wants to start a tank for the first time to a link for Oscars!!!! And we are the un-informed reptile ppl???

Im sorry if im coming off like a complete jerk..but some of us have worked far to hard here to be put off as not a place for info. For all of you long term fellow fish members...im sure you feel the exact same way, and believe me..i know what a great job you ppl do. Thanks for your membership and posts...keep them coming, Shane@ssnakess.com

[marisa]

For myself I keep coming here for fish info, and reptile info. But fish info is what we are talking about.....

the internet there are soooooooo many resources. Some busy, some less busy. Some totally OUTDATED and some really awesome. But on those other forums you have no idea who you are talking too. You have no idea if they are a total moron and keeping goldfish in bowls or if they know there stuff. If you spend a little time on ssnakess.com you will quickly read the
"main fish helpers" (lol) posts to others, see their animals/fish/herps and you will know they have solid advice to give.

Marisa

[Shane Tesser]

XxRachxX, i think that the fact that you are starting a tank for the first time is terrific. And so far you are doing the right thing by wanting to do research on what you want to keep.

I would encourage you to narrow down what type of tank you like the best, and from there we can help walk you through the do's and dont's of setting up a tank for the first time.

If you like the look of a planted tank..go for it. If the hard contrast of rocks and fish in a cichlid tank is more your style, or the business of a community tank is what you seek...all are possible for the beginner.

Right off the bat, it can be overwhelming the vast amounts ppl will pull you one way and then the next telling you what you need to do. So its no wonder so many ppl just give up from the start after everything dies. So far you have listed several fish that i keep at the present time, and for the most part those are some fairly good choices.

You will find you'll be bombarded with all sorts of chemical measurements and terms your head will spin. Again..no wonder so many ppl fail at they first attempt. But ill tell you what i do, as the cycle question has already been brought up.

To cycle a tank is really to do two things. 1) To create and start a bacteria bed that will keep the water balanced and will help to remove waste and excess of the living creatures in the tank. 2) To get the water to a state where it is comfortable to the fish to live in, thus keeping stress levels down so that they will fluorish. This basically means that by monitoring the water you can determine if it will stay at its current setting as oppose to changing its chemical make up and causing essentially the tank and its inhabitants to crash and burn.

There is several schools of thought on how to properly cycle a tank. These are 1) The introduction of a cheap fish to colonize a bacterial bed by means of their own waste...i like to call these guys the sacrificial lambs of the aquarium world. 2) The introduction of various chemicals that will do this for you. 3) The introduction of a natural or semi-natural product...one other than chemical that is quick to break down.

I use the last of the three...and here is why, and how i do, and have always done it, and i will challange anyone who can come up with a better, and safer way.

I use fish food to cycle the tank. Plain Jane cheap Flake food, and often depending on what type of tank i will use pure peat, or vegetables such as zuchinni. Here is my reasons for this. When you buy a so called sacrificial lamb for your tank...you often get stuck with them. Unless you can find a store that will buy them back from you..and non the less most of the time..you will never get the full amount back. Stores are in business to make money..not to let you set up a tank for a week or two. This is of course if in the mean time you dont fall in love with the little fish you bought to start this process, and end up keeping them and getting another tank to put them in!!!. Chemicals, i simply hate. I dont believe in adding suppliments other than meds and my reason for this is simple. There is a term we use in the fish world that evolves around the Kh measurements. This is the term buffer. When ever you add a chemical, you have to insure that the water will stay in or around the desirable setting that you are trying to acheive in the first place. Chemicals for the most part only create a temporary buffer. With water changes, the introduction of various living animals, the chemical states will often change drastically to the point where you will one day a week, two, a month down the road notice that the chemical has now broken down, with it, so has the water. This in turn will lead to lots of stress on the animals and often death of the tank.

What i do is place a fairly large amount of flake in the new water. Then i turn the heater and filters on. As the water heats, it aids in bringing out several types of bacteria that will die, and cycle several times over as the temperatures change. Now this is by no means a quick set up. But, you will find that after a couple of weeks the water will be stable as the filter will cycle bacteria through and continue to let it grow. Once i have found that the water is completely stable for a weeks time. I purchase and introduce the fish to the tank....or in other cases they will see a hospital or quarinteen tank first....but thats a whole other story.

Now with this in mind..and this thread way too long..lol, i would continue your search on what you like, and ask us, we all want to watch you succeed :D

[XxRachxX]

wow........
im glad ive actually found such a great bunch of people to help and encourage me to work at it! before i came here i wanted to start a tank.....i did a fair amount of research and was ready to buy the stuff....but no-one was there to "push" me to actually DO IT! i had no help what so ever and gave up on the idea......forgetting about it completely! i also thought that nobody ever went on the aquaria forums.....it was so quiet down here! WRONG! aah.....i love this site too much..
talking about cycling....
i posted on another forum (shame on me!) and asked wether it would be possible to cycle my tank with "bits" from our koi pond. We have an exellent filter thang going on and the guy who responded said he'd heard of it bieng done before and it was pretty much in his words "an almost instant cycle" anybody know anything about this?
thank ya kindly!;)

[Simon R. Sansom]

Shane; Interesting that you start your cycling with fish-food - I used to do the same thing. I've also used gravel or water from an established tank in order to "seed" a new set-up. I must say, you definitely know your stuff!

Rach; I would assume that you could use "bits" from your koi pond to help cycle your new tank. It will still take a couple of weeks at least.
The key to starting a new tank (and I've learned this through trial and error years ago) is PATIENCE! I know how exciting it is to see that newly-put-together, shiny tank just begging to be filled with fish. But just take your time and you AND your fishes will be happier!
Slow and steady wins the race.

Best of luck!

Simon

[ranmasatome]

okay..you guys have taken away everything i wanted to say!!! hahahaha...that's great!!! :):)

[corr]

Heh, looks like I got here too late too! :)

... but I'm gonna put my two cents in anyway ;)

First of all, this forum may have started off slow, but it's growing VERY quickly I can see. There is definitely no shortage of information here and for those who have questions, ask away! Remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

Not to pick on you sunset, but I would rather read one or two intelligent posts rather than a string of semi or not so intelligent posts. I'm very familiar with that page and it once was a very good place to go... not anymore. There is a lot of bad information there.

Rach, I'm anxious to hear what types of fish you are interested in so we can steer you in the right direction. This'll be fun! :)

[djnzlab]

HI,
I have kept south american cichlids for years, I ve found the Gold and green sevrons very easy to keep. I feed only Japanese Koi food it meets their protein requirements and enhances color and dosen't foul up your filtration. The species thrive on Vegatarian Diet, High protein or meat eaters tend to produce large amounts of waste that fouls tank filters rather quickly.
http://www.redtailboas.com/albums/doug01/fc9e7cdb.jpg
The white fish are gold sevrons, the orange are a hybrid rather expensive parrot fish a cross between sevrons and reddevils (a very grumpy meat eater).
Your filitration is the secret to keeping fish, You need as much as you can afford my large tanks have canister and reef systems that remove 100 % of the nitrates and urea from the water .
Another trick is to add small amounts of marine salt and I use a cup of crushed coral to 100 gal tank added to the gravel this buffers the water to 7.2 and you never have to worry about PH shock that can occur thru normal every day freshwater changes due to bacteria metabolism
WOrks for me hehe
My chiclids are over four years old now. they do get rather large and grumpy around 5-6 years old that mateing thing, I usally take them back and buy several new babies and raise the group together.

Doug

[Shane Tesser]

Those look in fantastic shape djnzlab!!! Thanks for sharing :D

[Youkai]

I have one suggestion that hasn't been made already. (I was late to this thread too...lol)

What you might find will work the best is to pick one fish you like the absolute best. Aquascape and pick any possible tank mates based on that choice. It helps to narrow things down. Like say, If you can have plants or not, what sizes/kinds of fish you can add, etc.

[reverendsterlin]

Shane, I do not appeciate being spoken to as a child, had my first tank before you were born, Discus in brackish have always done better for me, YES BRACKISH. You may disagree with me as you like, but do not degrade me, I have found more and more of the things that drove me from KS appearing here because to site has grown soooooooo much. But bro, don't dis me, I'll drop here like anywhere else that clicks want to rule. I hope this is my mis-interpertation but....

[XxRachxX]

i like that idea youkai:)
...... did actually post these earlier...but ill post em again.....if you look a few posts back on the first pages.....theres a little list of fish i wouldnt mind:)

i think would like a combination of a peaceful-ish community tank (not too peacful mind....it would get boring after a while....i need some action!) but i still want it to quite active....
maybe a few bigger sized fish and some groups of "shoaling" fish??
were going to look at some shops tommorow to see whats available...:)

[Youkai]

Hmmm...you might like rainbows then, and I think you mentioned them! You might also like hoplosternum (sp) catfish.We had some big ones at work that I got to take pellets from my hand. I think most commonly sold species are around 5-6". (someone correct me if I'm wrong.)
But anyway...check out the shops, and tell us if you find anything that you really like. :)

[Duncan]

I don't usually jump into many debates but this is the first time in 30 years of keeping fish that I've ever heard of discus being kept in brackish conditions. I guess I was wondering what Reverendsterlin considers brackish? I worked retail in a fish store for 7 years a few decades ago and some customers used to call a tank brackish if they added a tablespoon of salt per gallon to their aquariums (not a big deal, but definitely not brackish). How much salt is being added? Brackish to me was always water with a specific gravity around 1.010 or so, but maybe Reverendsterlin has a different idea of what brackish is? I do know of discus that were kept (and even bred) in fairly alkaline conditions in relativelely hard water but discus are found in very different conditions in nature. I have always advocated approximating the conditions any animal would find in its natural setting, I've never heard of discus entering brackish water in nature, so why keep them in those conditions in an aquarium? Discus traditionally come from conditions where the water is soft, of a low pH and temps are above 80F. Isn't it better to recommend conditions that the greatest number of people have succeeded with? Besides, what is your definition of success? Discus can live a decade or so in certain circumstances ... is anything less acceptable? Keeping fish is often as much art as science and if Reverendsterlin has success in a particular way, that's great. But most people would not be successful keeping discus in a brackish water aquarium and so it would be irresponsible to not give that counterpoint. Anyway, just my personal viewpoint,
Duncan
By the way, Odessa barbs are great, colorful fish (the males anyway), really hardy too, they always make a super starter fish!

[ETET]

Like everyone said - got you favorite fish and get the tank cycle. Another thing I like to add is that -other than research the water requirement of the fish you like, also check the water your are going to use, e.g. tap water, filtered water..etc. If the water chemistry of your water has a big discrepancy of the fish you like, you may have to adjust the water before you cycle and put the fish in. Another thing you can do by asking the seller of the fish about what water condition they use, then you compare the water chemistry of your tank. If the difference is very small, the fish shouldn't be stressed.

XxRachxX you mentioned about group of shoaling fish, always try not to add too many fish in one time. Because there is a risk of overload your cycled system; it may take a while to build up a community of fish and a good biological system. Practically, regularly water chemistry tests to determine waste and final converted products within normal range and time is important.


ETET

[sSNAKESs.com]

Rev....why are you fighting with me of all ppl. I think the confusion is exactly what Duncan pointed out. Alot of ppl do think they keep what they consider brackish when it isnt. And if you read any book on the subject a specific gravity of 1.010 is the norm for most brackish fish. Discus come from extremely soft waters, ph as low as 5.5, and as Duncan mentioned any animal should be kept in as close to perfect conditions as they are originally found. Now, i cannot think of anyplace near water that contains salt where the ph would come out with such an acidic ph? If you have kept them and they managed to live in brackish, thats great. But if you talk about stress, breeding, and general well being of a species such as these...im sorry but i would never advocate mixing salt in with them. If not for any other reason, Discus have one of the most sensitive slime/mucous coats of any fish. During breeding in harder water this same slime coat is often damaged and alot of the eggs never hatch. Now thats with hard water. So my question is what would salt do? I have probably 20 books on discus. From authors like Jack Wattely and Bernd Degen. I have kept wild heckels and many many of the hybrids on the market. I looked over almost all of my books today and cannot find one that suggests having any traces of salt. All suggest for the well being of the animal that the ph be acidic, with salt..this is impossible. As for your age..what does that have to do with anything other than your going to die before me..lol. Don't take stuff so seriously Rev, sheesh, i thought you got confused between two very different fish....hope this makes more sense..time to go and clean the cage i house the gaboon and corns snakes together in ;)

Sorry, Jeff forgot to log out..this is Shane

[reverendsterlin]

my apology, I really hate finals week and the stupidty I get saddled with during it. MY APOLOGIES TO EVERYONE.

[reverendsterlin]

Saltwater fish prefer an alkaline pH of 8.0 or above. Freshwater fish thrive at the neutral to acid end of the spectrum between 5.5 and 7.5. pH is not static

[reverendsterlin]

Saltwater fish prefer an alkaline pH of 8.0 or above. Freshwater fish thrive at the neutral to acid end of the spectrum between 5.5 and 7.5. pH is not static most folks would keep discus in lower pH range like 6.5 -6.8 but to me this is what I consider brackish my mistake if it does not agree with you http://freshaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa040300a.htm

[reverendsterlin]

I give up, I'm an idiot so nite all. Shane, I'm sorry for being a dic#

[reverendsterlin]

using brackish for soft is a stupid mistake

[corr]

Rach, have a look at Harlequin Rasboras. I don't think they've been suggested yet. :)

[sSNAKESs.com]

Rev...i never thought you were a di@@...ive known you far too long to ever think that bro ;) ...lmao...again..no sign off by Jeff :) Shane

[XxRachxX]

my ph is around 7.6/7.7 , which is apparently too high for some of the fish i like. is there any way i can get the ph down?? other than buying funny chemicals?
today has been hectic!! we were just about to go out to look at fish and my dad had to be taken into hospital again, which is REALLY bad but at least i have control over decoration of our tank! he has appointed me as the fish lady of the house! i have to feed his fish and sort out our tank! i AM in control..mwahaha

[djnzlab]

HI,
Depending on whats raising your PH many times it could be something new in the tank, or possibly you have a large shell that was bleached . Fresh carbon can crash the PH occasionally if not rinsed I am not sure. almost all tanks lean toward acid due to bacterial action on waste. What usally happens in most tanks is the new owner over feeds and you have a bacteria bloom due to food and fish waste this will lead to a ammonia problem . This can suficate the fish by burning their Gills ,,SOmetimes the PH will crash during the set up. You then runout of the free calcium carbonate (a natural buffer found in hard water)in the water and your PH will crash to low. Most fish die from PH injury and it may take a few days but they are going to die even if you fix the PH.
Here's a simple fix . Got to your favorite pet store and ask them if they have any tank bacteria in a bottle, there are two companies that sell benaficial bacteria for fish tanks.. You only need this for a brand new fish tank..
Start with a couple fish and wait a week or two for the tank to activate the filtration. I always turn off filtration when I feed this prevents the filter getting some of the food. Only feed very small quanities of food never over feed.. When you do tank maint. only clean 1/2 of the filters pads never do them all on the same day,, when you replace filters they take a couple days to start growin the good bacteria, thats whats clearing the water not the filter. I have large fish in my big tanks and I also have smaller fish in the same tank the smaller danio fish ( ps giant and pearl danio's) are an excelent fish for a new keeper).the daino eat what ever makes it past the gills in my larger species of fish this prevents tiny pieces of food from fouling the filters. I rarely do tank maint I rinse the sump filter maybe once a week. the canisters are every two months
When I break down my 100 gal tanks I always save the dirty filter's and replace the pads and then rinse some of the the dirty filters into the clean water in the fish tank by squeezing some of the gray out of it. The good bacteria will smell like potting soil.. This is the good bacteria your water will haze up for a couple mins and then will almost always clear up..this re-charges or activates the new filters much quicker and prevents any addtional
delay in removing any of the biological waste in the water.
Squeeky CLean filters don't work as well as charged ones.
Many people have spent years learnig how to keep fish some have luck with one species only.
Most petstore fish can have parasites and have been stressed by shipping and temp changes. Many will die in the perfect tank.
I havent' added a fish to my 100 gal in a couple years because I don't want to risk adding Ick to the tank.. If your constantly adding fish you will have problems in that tank.
enough for one day.. hehe
doug

psps, i almost forgot never clean anything that goes in a fish tank with any type of soap, never rinse filter in a sink that may have soap residue, if you must clean algae off the tank cover or some of the plastic hardwear I usally us marine salt as an abrasive cleaner this willcut thru the algae and not poison your fish.and you can rinse off the salt with tap water.. Everything you use to clean, (buckets,cups whatever)scrapers, and them green pads canot come in contact with soap. I have tank hoses and a buckets and an ice chest that I keep in the garage for tank maint, and if any one uses one with soap they are gona buy me a new one... hehe doug good luck that learning curve can be painful..

http://www.redtailboas.com/albums/doug01/fish_003.sized.jpg
http://www.redtailboas.com/albums/doug01/fish_004.sized.jpg