A plea...

[Zoe]

I've noticed lately that there has been a lot of squabbles, arguments, flaming, disagreements, whatever you want to call them, on the forums. Some I've participated in (yes I am aware of the irony), some I've observed and yet others I've only heard about it. Perhaps it's not my place to say, but I find this very sad and dissapointing. I mean, why do we frequent this site? It's not a chat room for 12 yr olds teeny-boppers with raging hormons, no, it's a wonderful (canadian! :D) site for people to come seek and share information and pictures, as well as forge important friendships.
I know not everyone here likes everyone else, and that there will always be disagreements between members, but can't we get past that and appreciate the love and appreciation of herps that everyone one of us has?
And let's stop taking things so personally... I've seen many misunderstandings or constructive critisms that are percieved as insults or "flaming", have escalated into long and mean arguments, and have ended up getting the thread deleted. To what end? A waste of time reading and writing, and frustration, as well as a loss of any useful information that was on that thread.
So c'mon, let's all grow up, get past these petty squabbles (if we can't, there is always a handy little ingore feature!), accept it when we were wrong and someone else was right, and continue making this the #1 best, friendly herp site on the net.

:]
Zoe

[HetForHuman]

very well put Zoe :)

[Beejay]

Oh Zoe, you're such a loozer. You think you can just walk in here and tell us wat to do!? This is a free country.

And wats with "petty squables" maybe some of us have a life and snakes are really important to us. Colubrids are hardly snakes btw....they're not cool as pythons. they're for loozers.

and Canadians suck. Just thot I'd mention that while I'm here.

HAHAHAHA

Zoe you nut! I'm gonna get in trouble for this.

<b>I'm just teasing, everyone! HUGS ZOE (she made me do it :) )</b>

Bj :)

[Dom]

LOL BEEJAY .. I knew that was not your writting! :):):)

I totally agree with Zoe though . There has been way way way too much bs between ppl .. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE .. We are only so tolerent ..

[asphyxia]

How Ironic is that, lol


All the best!
Brian

[Herpkingdom]

There is a lot of that going on at just about every herp site. Unfortunately, there are a lot of 12 year olds with raging hormones on these sites that seem to know everything there is to know about any and all snake or lizard in the world and just throw out anything idea that comes to mind and swear it to be gospel. There are also a lot of experienced people who come to this site, as well as the others, who see this and do not want the newbies to take what the those 12 year olds are posting as good useful husbandry information. And if we call them for it, they get all offensive and thus starts another flaming thread.

I may not have 1000 posts like some here, but when I do post I try to give helpful, accurate information. Even doing that I got caught in a flame (by someone who posted in this thread no less). So it seems that it is not just 12 year olds who start them.

[hip]

Wow I get so nervous when dom talks tough I just wet my pants out of fear (lol sorry dom could not resist s smart arse comment to you ) it might get a laugh from the others which is good will lighten thins up a bit.



I for got to mention Dom also has some awesome pythons (has a very nasty rock) Don't worry Dom I will be making more fun of you at a later date for a good laugh feel free to kick boot or ban me if you Dare LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL


T minus 8 Days



HIp

[Shane Tesser]

Well said guys... Lets not have trouble in the family, there is really no need... there is so much more problems going on in the world we dont need to pollute our safe haven and sweat the small stuff! :D

[JeffT]

Well about the whole 12 year old thing...isnt there an age limit? I mean something like that could prevent a lot of this. I agree Shane, dont sweat the small stuff!

[Herpkingdom]

Vic, thanks.

I know it is not, at times, easy to stay clam about something that we all are so passionate about. I, myself, have even gone off the wall and bashed someone for saying something that is their opinion on a thread that was just started to cause such a ruckus.

If anyone feels that I have unjustly bashed, flamed, or otherwise offended them in any of my very few post, I apologize to you. This is a passion i my life, and I really do not like seeing pseople coming in to forums like this for the sole purpose of passing along misinformation and starting flaming threads.

If you are wrong I will point it out. If it is your opinion, I should not argue that you are wrong. (Although, sometimes I will if I feel strongly enough in my opinion, as we all will & do)

Now, let me clarify opion from facts.

The feeding live versus frozen thawed or fresh killed debate, is an opinion. Everyone stands somewhere on this debate.

But on the other hand, someone coming in here and posting an answer to a boa cage temp, saying that 70 degrees is to optimal temp, is just plain wrong and I will post to state just that.

[BWSmith]

I know that I am passionate about herps and very opinionated. I have went back and edited a few posts that I wrote because they were too harsh. I try, but I call 'em like I see 'em. ;)

Signed,
Your very own Militant American Hot Herper

[Tim and Julie B]

The unfortunate thing is that no matter what is said, someone is going to disagree. And too many people become defensive about what is being said. If we could all just take the good with the bad, then it would work out eventually. There is such a diversre unit of people here, with different interests, and while that is a very good thing it also lends a hand in controversy. Personally, I think it hasn't been too bad. Many other sites have much worse things going on. I love ssnakess for it hospitality and great memebers, and I wouldn't change a thing. ;D Cheers everyone, love ya all! (metaphorically-hehe)
Julie B.

[Alicewave]

I can get like this myself. Sometimes I may post a reply that comes off a little harsh but i try my best not to personally insult anyone or take it too far. I have no personal gripes with anyone here. Usually if my posts are a little harsh it's only cuz it's MONDAY AND I'M FREAKING TIRED DAMMIT!!!!
(Hehe I love you all)

[BWSmith]

I am just pleased that i have only had a couple deleted! New record for me!

[marisa]

Not to mention this site would be like really crappy if all we did was agree with each other. How boring.

Its much more entertaining, educational, and interesting to have at least *some* discussion, even though it might make (oh no!) "waves"

I have yet to see a real problem on this site.

Marisa

[reptilesalonica]

I believe that because a forum is the mirror of our real world, it is very hard people from various ages to not have arguments in the long run. A 30 year old cannot communicate completely all the time with a 12 year old. Maybe it is a good idea one 2nd site for kids 5-16 years old and this one for older ages 17-107 years old. Not that then there won't be any arguments because as i said these forum are like the real world we're living. Is the mirror of the real world. What we all can do is thinking twice before we reply to a hursh and offentive post. Many times ignorance is way better than anger.
~Greg~

[Beejay]

Originally posted by Vic
I dunno about having seperate forums, i think its a good thing kids and adults debate on topics, granted sometimes it can get childish but without the mix the younger ones will miss out on vital information.

I agree! Also, I've learned a lot from young kids. Don't forget about the benefit of the knowledge some of these kids have gained throughout several years of herping before some of us old folks even started.

Especially awesome, is KATE!!!!!!! :D

Bj

[Zoe]

Yeah, true, I mean what would 5-16 yr olds have to say to each other?

When I wrote that I didn't mean there was a HUGE problem. By all means, discussion is a great thing! But I had seen a lot of stupid, childing, immature arguments over the past few days usually involving all or some of the same people, and was hoping by posting this perhaps those people would stop being offended so easily and remember what this site is for :]

Zoe

[Xetox]

I talked to a few guys at a show this weekend about ssnakes out of 4 one still remains here.....wont mention names.....but the others said that left for this exact reason, to much misinformation and to much flaming....

It just seems anyone with a corn snake for a month becomes a expert....I know I am no expert at anything but I have been working with herps most of my life and I will state my opinion on things...but I also ask alot of guestions and seem to get good information when I do.

I say rock on ssnakess and a little disagreement can be fun sometimes!

[jpaulson]

As I may of said before, I do not think that age should be the determiner in what may or may not become a flame. It is the persons actions that determine if a thread will become a flame or not. I have spoken with many a young herper on these forums that have impressed me more than any "adult". A good example is "Boaguy" from another site--BW and Herpkingdom know who he is. This guy is 13 years old, but by his actions, set-ups, and words, he is one of the most mature people I have ever heard, not to mention the volumes of information that I have gained from him. If we were to put a "age limit" on these sites, then I would of never had a chance to meet this guy and learn what I have.

It is so much easier to call names and start flames when you have not met most of these people in person. It is quite easy to get carried away with flames when you will never have to really do anything other than hit the power button . Lets keep this in mind the next time we want to flame....remember and respect that there ARE people here, people with feelings and emotions.

Finally, as I have stated before on this site, it all begins with the admins and moderators. I have seen alot of name calling, bashing, and flaming on this site that has not had much input from the admins. Although we are all adults here, or at least should conduct ourselves that way, I think the admins need to get a little more involved in controlling the forums. Stop something before it gets out of hand--warn someone of un-appropriate behavior--kick someone out--do something!! Again, I frequent other sites as well, and one in particular does not tolerate ANY offensive behaviors--you cannot even incinuate a cuss word. At first, it was aggravating--but then I began to understand. No one can control another person or the words that they choose to use--the only thing that can be done is to stop it quickly, warn them of thier behavior and how it is not appropriate for this site, and give them another chance. If they violate it again, then banish them--block thier URL--whatever it takes!!

But it all starts with us, and remembering to treat everyone and every member with the respect that you expect to be treated with.

[tHeGiNo]

LOL I am laughing about the 5-16 idea, that is kind of dumb don't you think? I am 16 and don't start flames nor provide false information. Common think about it, that is really not fair, it is never fair to generalize.

[jpaulson]

Actually, Gino, look at what you just said: "LOL I am laughing about the 5-16 idea, that is kind of dumb don't you think?"

Then you go on to say that you don't start flames. I think this is a good example of the thread. Although you may not think you start a flame, you may un-intentionally. Laughing at someone's idea and then calling it dumb is a good way to start a flame. That is usually how they start. Someone says something, and then someone else perceives it out of context--then you have a flame starting.

Although it may be difficult to do, I think we all need to REALLY re-read our posts, and then ask yourself if any of it may be taken hostile. If it is, then change it before hitting that submit button. What one person may think is harmless, another may take as a personal attack. That is just the difference in human interaction. It happens.

[marisa]

I agree with what you said in your post.

But I think part of it also has to do with people being WAY to sensitive. I try my best to sound nice, constructive and informative without being "bossy" or "rude" but sometimes I can only type so nice before it becomes fake for crying out loud, and even THEN someone is "upset"

I agree that people should re-read their posts and make sure the wording will get your true meaning across the internet correctly, but while that means everyone acting like adults....acting like adults also means realizing everything can't be as you like it, and not being super over sensitive. It is 50/50 on this issue IMHO.

:D

Marisa

[jpaulson]

My comment was that everyone SHOULD conduct themselves as adults--wishful thinking!! Fact is, we are dealing with people from all walks of life--all levels of income, all family sizes, all nationalities, and all ages. Everyone has thier own interpretation of what "adult" or "mature" behavior is--therein lays our problem. I agree, Marissa, I too try to approach each post with the same respect that I wish to receive--at times it gets frustrating, especially to those that chose to ignore advice, or try to start a flame. Fact is, there is no answer to the question. We will always deal with such a diverse community--thats part of what makes these sites so wonderful! But, along with that, comes the perils of dealing with people that you only know through thier keyboards.

All anyone can do is take a good look at themselves, and see how they can improve thier communication skills, such as being overly sensitive, quick to jump with a negative attitude, etc...

As it has been said so many times before..." Can't we all just get along?" :)

[katev17]

Originally posted by Beejay
Especially awesome, is KATE!!!!!!! :D


Don't worry guys, as long as you keep this in your mind, nothing can go wrong.

Just don't forget it! :) heehee

Kate

[JeffT]

I 150% DISAGREE with having a seperate forum for kids. Thats a dumb idea. I think that would start more problems. Unfortunately there would be a lot more fights among just teens. I think a lot of the other herpers in their teens on this site feel the same was as I do.

[Alicewave]

I think the admins need to get a little more involved in controlling the forums. Stop something before it gets out of hand--warn someone of un-appropriate behavior--kick someone out--do something!!

I just want to say that the admins here do everything they can. Most flame threads have been stopped before most people even see them, I'm sure Jeff will address this himself, but I know the mods and admins aer doing there job. Take a look at the bottom of the page, this site is #1 four times over, with well over 2000 members now, it's not easy to catch all the flame wars before they start. They are doing there best. If people would learn to treat each other civily in the first place, things wouldn't get out of hand to begin with.

[Edwin]

I think that is goes both ways, people should be more careful to be clear in their posts, and also not to read too much into other people's posts.

All of us are very passionate about our hobby, and I think raising herps is not an exact science, but an art. There are many different ways of doing things, and each of us have our own preferences.

I do not think it is necessary to have a separate forum for kids, in fact, I have learnt a lot from the 'kids' here, they are more mature than some adults I know. :) Besides, there is nothing really offensive like nudity, violence or swearing that is not fit for kids.

Personally, I enjoy the discussions we have here, they are a wealth of information. Like Marisa said, if all we did was agree with each other, it would be rather boring...

[aqua_demon]

I agree there is no need for the fighting cant we all just get along but i think thank the rude remarks about age was uncalled for there are alot of underaged teens here that are ensightful smart and know just as much as anyone else i think you owe them an apology! Dont you?

[marisa]

This is the problem right here.

You think someone said somethign mean about teens, but in reality they just made an offhand remark that wasn't directed at anyone. It wasn't an insult, it wasn't a "Fact" it was just a statement, yet you want/demand an apology for it. When to really keep things smooth, people need to learn to just let such TINY insignifigant remarks go. Its just the internet. Just the internet.

Edwins point about reading into posts too much is my opinion too. People get way over reacting about things that are said in a virtual forum where thousands of people from all walks of life visit. :D


Marisa

[damzookeeper]

Originally posted by Alicewave
I can get like this myself. Sometimes I may post a reply that comes off a little harsh but i try my best not to personally insult anyone or take it too far. I have no personal gripes with anyone here. Usually if my posts are a little harsh it's only cuz it's MONDAY AND I'M FREAKING TIRED DAMMIT!!!!
(Hehe I love you all)

Hey you, get out of my head. lol, that's basicly what I was going to say. lol
Oh, and to Zoe.... You go girl! lol. Just kidding, but I agree with you. :)

[jpaulson]

Alicewave,
If I gave the impression that all the mods and admins here are not doing their job, then I apologize...that was not my intent. I was simply stating my opinion on certain situations. For example, the very first thread that I responded to, I noticed that someone had called another member a name--don't quite recall what it was--I felt that it was un-called for, and could cause a flame. I reported the person to an admin, who after a few hours just made a post to the thread to "be nice". I think the post should of been totally deleted.
Across these threads, I also see a multitude of incinuations to cuss words...just because you put two astericks between a f and a k does not make you civil. I see alot of that happening on this site. Children are smarter than we give them credit for--they know what we are really trying to say. Alicewave, I think you know what the other site is that I was referring to, as I believe you are a member there as well. You would know for yourself then that things that are tolerated on this site are not tolerated on the other site.
I enjoy this site, and really like some of the people that contribute to it. All I am saying, is that we need to get a little tighter on certain "rules". The only way this will ever change is if the moderators and administrators step up to the plate and stick to tighter guidelines and TOS's.

[marisa]

I don't agree with tighter guidlines at all.
IMHO the reason most people stopped visiting other sites is because you can't say a thing without being flamed for being too "opinionated"

Those sites are so bland I for one cannot stand even visiting them.

I have yet to see a real issue on this site that would require even TIGHTER guidlines. I mean its kiddy safe enough in my opinion. And we have to remember that we have adult members too.

Marisa

[Alicewave]

Sorry for double post.

[Alicewave]

J. No hard feelings at all and I'm actually not positive which site you are referring to because I have been a member of a lot of them. I don't agree that there are things tolerated here that are not tolerated there. I don't post anymore at those sites because most of the flaming was being done BY the admins. It may have changed now, I don't want to bad mouth them or anything but I saw an extreme amount of abuse of power at those sites and that is one thing that never happens here. You will never see an admin here blatantly insult or bully another member. It's too bad it happened in other sites because there were a lot of great people there, but i don't tolerate that behavior coming from an admin and that's why I no longer post at those places.

[jpaulson]

Agreed, Alicewave, agreed.