Too many pinkies!

[Dom]

I thought it was cute lol .. I have been breeding tons of babies for all my little coastal babies to come soon ..

Here's a nice lil' pic of some of the babies!

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/512/55tons_of_rats-med.jpg

There even cuter inside a snakes stomac!

:):):)

[unknownclown]

Dang! I am so envious! My mice seem to be at a standstill at breeding. 4 tanks of breeders and it doesnt apear that anyone is breeding :(

[Emily-Fisher]

I purchased three mice to start my breeder group (2 females, 1 male). It's been a week now and no one looks any rounder (Except for Karl, my male, who would rather spend his life eating food than mating) and it's driving me nuts! Does anyone know how to tell if a female might be pregnant only a couple days after the male mates with her?

[reptilesalonica]

WOW! from how many females? I started since Sep with 1.6 mice. 15 days ago i have more females and right now i have 3.14 for breeding and hardly manage to have enough food for my 30 herps. Since last month my females laid small litters. Now the breeding females (6) lay about 6-7 pinkies.
~Greg~

[Emily-Fisher]

Sounds like your breeders are getting old! Mice start having smaller and smaller litters once their reach 4-5 months old and it's been 8 months that you've been using those breeders...i suggest that you buy some new ones and start off fresh! You will have bigger litters ;)

[Dom]

one male 6 females.. 4 of tehm had babies on the same night.. then the next two in a week.. there giving me cary amounts really often.. I have gotton 98 babies in 2 weeks from my 6 females..

[marisa]

Mice breeders can EASILY last longer than 4-5 months!!! I have no idea why you think that. Most of my breeders don't even start breeding and having decent litters until 5 months.

All my breeders last and produce until they are about 1 year old. This is females mind you. I reuse males until they are two. They live a year with their first group of females, and another year (if the male is in good health and has a good track record) with another group of females.

Another thing is that the groups take longer than a week to start up. Sometimes when I place a new colony together it takes them 2-3 months to REALLY get going and get themselves on a schedual.

While most anything is o.k. to fed them, I believe in variety BIG TIME! I have almost NO mortality and I have absolutly NO cannabilisim. I feed my mice cheap dog food, a mouse seed mix, squrriel mix (more a treat) and when I have time they get mondo leftovers! lol rice, eggs (and egg shells), bread, croutons, dry and cooked pastas, dog bones from the dog, dry cat food from the cats, carrots and leftover iguana veggie salad etc. I put all leftovers in a large bowl in my fridge and after a couple days I spoon it out into all the cages. All this is not a must, but I find it ensures everyone is getting what they need. And frankly, the mice care is almost MORE important than the snakes care as you can't have good qaulity herps if you don't have high qaulity feeders.

I keep them in colonies of 1 male and anywhere from 3-6 females in rubbermaid shoeboxes. Fresh water is a MUST. One day without water, or one day with a water bottle spillage, can spell disaster for breeders.

Anyways, thats a nice size group of pinkies Dom!!!!

Marisa

[Linds]

Nice pic!

[Lisa]

Yumm! heh actually i don't think i could stomach eating a pinky. :)

our mouse production is slowly building up weee

[jwsporty]

Hey Dom,

I had a pile like that last week...did I say "Had"...;) And 4 more looking like they are going to pop VERY soon.

Marisa: I fully agree with you, the quality of the snake is directly proportional to the quality of the feed. I give mine a well balanced mix of pellet,seed, fresh fruit and veggies. But I hold off on the fruit until the day before I clean the pens. I also found that moving them into a cooler environment helped boost production. I have one colony 1.8 and a new second colony of 1.6, along with an active rat colony of 1.2 and a second on the way of 1.3. My food production/consumption ratios are just about right for my needs. My wife has no problem with me taking down the mice, it's the rats she has a problem with, they are so cute. I WARNED her!

[reptilesalonica]

Is there a chance if mice fed uppon meat that can easier cannibilize their babies? Just a thought.
~Greg~

[marisa]

No not that I have read. I don't really fed them "fresh meat" lol but there are meat by products in dry cat and dog food.

I have noticed the most likely culprits are in the newly set up colonies during the first litters. Either the mother is nervous, or her female cagemates are and they eat a couple or all of them. I have never ever had a father hurt his babies.

But when I was getting some baby eating last year I started kinda trying to keep track of the new colonies and when they gave birth I'd give them something to keep their mind of eating them. A high protien treat. Like a spoon of eggs. And I maybe drap a cloth over part of the tank. Also its important to keep the feeders away from busy areas of the house. Mine are in a room that only I go in once or twice per day. This year I have no baby eaters.

The strain is important too. Well not strain but certain mothers from certain colonies are prone to baby eating. I kill them right away. Any sick, ragged, or smaller females are culled as soon I see them. Any females who are just in the cage, but never seem to have their own litter, I feed off. If you do this consistantly your feeders make good breeders for the next generation. Stronger lines.

Also sometimes baby eating has nothing to do with any of the above. I have had some babie stillborn/deformed. The mother ate these and left the rest of the litter. But if I had killed her right away without noticing this then I would have missed out on a good mother.

Marisa

[jadegrasse]

I find my mice stay productive for about 12-16 months and then I cycle them. I feed my rats a higher protein diet and get about 800 mice born a month and about 300 rats born a month. The bigest problem I have is rearing them to 'market' size. I would rather sell my surplus to the pet stores then to other herpers because they are no way near as picky on size and they purchase more.

[Lisa]

The one instance of baby eating we've had is when we were away for 2 days and they ate more food then we expected...

[boa]

congrats dom glad to see your not spending top dollar right now like other people are i breed mice, rats, and there is never to many of them just keep freezing them and feeding them off.

[Hamster of Borg]

Its been documented time and time again that the dyes used in dog foods are passed from the rodents it is fed to and into the snakes that eat them, and are harmful, causing kidney failure among other problems. There is a reason why the big commercial rodent breeders don't feed dog food to their stock - one would think the main reason would be that mice are not dogs.

http://24.243.195.49/photos/z-mammals/mices.jpg

Ham

[Dom]

I simply fed em what ever i have from dog food to real rat food to vegies to bread .. they feed on everything.. I am not overly concerned with the dog food being a problem to their heatlh .. its a bit fatty though..

[marisa]

Yes it has been proven Ham.

Thats why when you purchase it you buy cheap dog food which normally contains no dyes.

The line "mice are not dogs" doesn't make sense when you consider cheap dog food that I use first four major ingredients are VEGGIES (corns and wheats mainly) then who is this food for? Not dogs. If mice can't eat wheat and corn, then what do they eat? Only things with the word "rodent" on the box?

Seriously I am not trying to be rude but I just don't udnerstand people who think A. the dog food i buy has dyes which it does not. Its an all natural food. Cheap too. B. That dogs are feed wheat and corn while mice eat ??????? Why can't mice eat corn and wheat? The other ingredients on the bag are also easily found on some local pet store "mice foods"

I understand the stupidity in feeding Iams or Purina which has a LOT of meat in it, but when we are talking about food that IS NOT FIT for dogs, and clearly has many things in it that are good for mice then why wouldn't I fed it? My dog food fits the suggested protein and fat standards most feeder, and fancy mice breeders agree on.

Also all this frantic "no this no that" is ridiculous in MHO. Mice out in the open will eat a dumped matress if thats all they can find, and a snake can eat those mice for months. With all the other pollutants wild mice encounter that snakes fed on, its a wonder people even care that I am feeding mine corn and wheat dog food. :)

Just MHO of course.
Marisa

[Hamster of Borg]

I'm not trying to get on anyone's case, just pointing out a fact so that someone reading the thread doesn't just read "dog food" and think "Oh, I can just buy a bag of Kibbles & Bits and they'll do fine."

One needs to make sure they know what is in the foods they are feeding to ensure it is good, for both the rodents and the snakes it eventually ends up in.

Ham

[marisa]

Mazuri Rodent Diet:

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein not less than 23.0%
Crude fat not less than 6.5%
Crude fiber not more than 4.0%
Ash not more than 8.0%

My cheapo dog food:
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein not less than 21%
Crude fat not less than 7%
Crude fiber not more than 6%
Ash not more than 9%

So two percent less protein, half a percent more fat. And I was mistaken the first four ingredients on my dog food arent all wheat or veggies. On is soybean meal. Lets look at Mazuris ingredient:

Dehulled soybean meal, ground corn, ground wheat, wheat middlings, animal fat preserved with BHA, cane molasses, fish meal, ground oats, porcine meat meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, dried beet pulp, wheat germ, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, dried whey, salt, calcium propionate (a preservative), dicalcium phosphate, ground soybean hulls, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K), choline chloride, dried yucca shidigera extract, corn gluten meal, DL-methionine, cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3 ), vitamin A acetate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (source of natural vitamin E), soybean oil, thiamin mononitrate, folic acid, nicotinic acid, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, cyanocobalamin (source of vitamin B12 ), manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is almost a sptting image of what the dog food bag says. POsition of ingredients and all. I will post *exactly* what is says soon but I can't get the bag down right now (50 pounder! bad back :( )

So I see nothing I could do to be hurting my mice feeding them the EXACT same thing as Mazuri, unless they are getting upset over the different name :)

:)
Marisa

[marisa]

I know what you are saying Ham but my point is that if you put dog food next to Mazuri Rodent Feed, the bag says the *exact* same thing. So I have no clue what difference people are talking about. Thats all.
:)

Marisa

[Lisa]

from the ingredients listing it sounds like Mazuris is overpriced cheap dog food. Maybe I should buy dog food by the truck load and repackage it as gormet rodent food. :D

When you get dog food get the cheapest stuff you can find. They're usually too cheap to use dye. don't use a name brand that's where you pay for the dyes, and certainly don't use the good stuff, your rats will suffer.

[reptilesalonica]

Good point Hamster of Borg. That's why i never fed meat (raw or crockets) to my mice. Dog and cat food are too rich for mice. I only give them hamster food (the good one), green apple and water. Nothing else.
~Greg~

[unknownclown]

OK I dont get it I have heard alot of people say that mice dont need meat or more to the point a high protien diet.
But in the wild they eat tons of beetles, earthworms, moths or whatever they can catch. They love them if you dont believe me throw a cricket in the tank and see how long it lasts there. They dont have a vegan diet at all but like and need variety. Now since Im not about to dump beetles crickets and worms in the tank for them why not provide a substitute? Except for the dyes (which can be avoided) theres nothing in the dog food that they wouldnt eat normally.

[marisa]

The other issue is the fact "wild mice" are all over. Some may eat primarily insects, some might live in areas where the live on vegetables. Some like I mentioned eat food from dumps including things that aren't food. The fact is that mice eat ANYTHING. And live on ANYTHING. So one can't even say whats best for the snake since if they are natural rodent eaters, then the mice they are eating are all living off different things depending on the area.

And I still have no clue why anyone can say Mazuri is better when my dog food label is identical, literally 1% different, other than that, identical. Yet the arguement goes on and on and on all over the internet.

I just chalk it up to people beliving what they want to believe and doing what they feel is best. :) And luckily since mice aren't picky, that works out for everyone!

Marisa