Guyan vs Surinam

[Lisa]

This came up in chat.... is there any difference between the two and how do you tell the difference? they're both exactly the same ssp so it's not like bci vs bcc vs bco...

[Linds]

There's virtually no differences... some people say that guyanas are more purple and suris are more pink, however I've seen some screaming pink boas come out of Guyana and some purples come out of Suriname. In all reality they are the same snake, there is just a man-made border in the middle of its territory :p

[Simon R. Sansom]

I've been doing a little research lately, and although I admit to not being a boa expert, I do agree with what Ms. Garneau says.
Basically, it seems as though you need to know the exact geographical origin of the animal(s) in question, or that of their parents, etc.
"Surinams" can resemble "Guyanas", and vice-versa.
It seems as though we can talk about Surinam-TYPE boas and Guyana-TYPE boas, based on physical characteristics such as colour and pattern (widow's peaks, and saddle count, tail colour, etc), but without the geographical info you can't say for certain.

Take care.

Simon

[Lisa]

So right down to a scale count they're the same?

I wonder how close the DNA is and if anyone's done a study on that.

[hip]

Well there is still a lot of debate and on and on about the two Some folks insist that boas they have imported with papers as to capture location (were it came from)prove one or another.I have as of yet found reason to believe that Boas respect country boundries and will go were they choose So this leads one to wonder. Try this link it is a survey on what herpers think a suriname boa should amount too.http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/suriname_survey.htm



And if you just want some eye candy or to do as I do and dream of all those awesome boas check this one out http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/default.htm



Hip

[paul_le_snake]

i have to agree with vic in this one. the whole boa constictor family is a complete mess in captivity. for the past 20 years ppl have been breeding specific sub species with each other as well as locale specific animals with others, for instance, B.c.imperator covers a huge geographical range, but many breeders have bred colombians with mexicans. 2 completly different looking animals in size and colouration. if ppl only bred sub-specis then it would be ok to breed hogg island boas with colombians. locale specific is the only way that we can keep the boa species differentiated. many "true" red tailed boas that have been coined suriname or guyanese are B.c.c that have been EXPORTED from that country. because many countries have different export regulations it makes it easier for dealers to export boas from a completly different country from where they were originally caught.
from what i have seen, TRUE guyanese tend to be a darker overall colour, whereas surinames usually are lighter
cheers
paul

[reverendsterlin]

I have found the best difference to be very specific capture locale documentation, the most common difference being between animals at either extreme of the range which show the greatest difference in variation within a species like the difference between a light phase, dark phase, and red phase Western Diamond Back same snake but vary mostly to enviromental differences and trait population density.

[Linds]

Lisa,
They are exactly the same snake. There are virtually no differences between each locality except for the humans have decided that one is to be called Guyanese and the other Suriname. If you look on the map they are in the same location, the animals don't have a border, only we do ;)

Vic and paul_le_snake,
The BCC mess is not as large as the BCI mess. The majority of BCC in captive collections are still imports... 100% pure animals. Often even the CBB animals are from WC parents, making their lineage true.

[paul_le_snake]

i meant the B.c.i when i was talking about the boa constrictor family
cheers
paul