safety - taking BP for a day out

[Wrath]

I'm taking my BP to the blessing of the animals this weekend. I have never taken her anywhere but the vet's. The event is in the afternoon, and it's supposed to be a fairly sunny day. Are there any precaucions that I should take?

I'm going to take her in her tupperware, but I just don't know if there is anything else that I should do/take/worry about.

If anyone has any advice/precaucions to offer, that'd be great. Thanks!

[ballpython5000]

what is that? like some church relious event for you animals to be blessed or something???

[ReptiZone]

Just treat it like it is a trip to the vet make shour no one hase a rodent close buy to be blest.heheh bring some botels of hot water to Put in it's travaling case make shour the priest or paster knows what he is blesing make shour the ppl around you dont make a scene like you are blessing satan or somthing like that and be prepared to be asked to leave at any time cause if one person has a fear of snakes and you stick around that is a recipie for by-law and restrictons any way have fun and I hope every thing gose well and congrats.

[ballpython5000]

let me get this straight.....people have snakes blessed? sounds cool i guess, my grandma is really religous but she hates snakes. so i bet she would love mine if i told her it was blessed. lol, just a thought.

[Wrath]

Blessing of the Animals is a custom in remembrance of St Francis of Assisi's love for all creatures. It's kinda fun, you walk by and a priest sprinkles water on the passing procession of people and their pets.

People usually bring all kinds of animals. The normal type pets, ducks, birds, I think there's this couple who brings their llama's (or used to I haven't been in a while). I've seen huge tortoises there, and all kinds of stuff. My sister is the queen of Olvera Street in downtown Los Angeles this year, and she's going to be involved in the event, and I figured I'd join in. I wouldn’t be surprised if I see any other snakes there. Probably someone with a big showy albino or something, I dunno. I just want to make sure that my bp's health isnt endangered.

[mykee]

You can't bless the demons incarnate!! Snakes are the devils tools! haha!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Weird that the very people who claim to love animals feel the need to cart them around and subject them to stuff that they clearly don't enjoy or want.

But such is life.

[marylyn101]

what a horrible idea. you cause unnessiary stress to the animals. how is that celebrating them.

[BurmBaroness]

I don't think it's anything to be concerned about Wrath. I have some snakes who like to be left alone, and then I have some that seem to like being out and about. Even if they don't "LIKE" it, they do not appear any more stressed than when I have them out at home. I think it's a beautiful thought, and if you want to take part in this ceremony, please, go and enjoy. I olny wish I could go as well. Marylyn, not all animals are as easily stressed as others. It's not a horrible idea at all. And Jeff, no it's not "weird", How do you know the animal doesn't enjoy fresh air and sunshine? While mine may not be able to tell me they enjoy it, they certainly seem to enjoy being outside. So Wrath, go, enjoy, and I hope your BP gets a basketful of blessings!

[Pixie]

I agree with BurmBaroness, it's not absolutely a stressful and hideous idea for all snakes. Yes, some or most wouldn't like being exposed to so many people but there are some snakes that if the owner is careful in how things are done seem to enjoy an outing.

Both my BP's really seem to enjoy going outside for some fresh air when it's warm enough, they are as mellow as when I handle them at home sometimes even more so! They seem to enjoy exploring new grounds and the outdoors. I can't see how an occasional outing can be harmful to a well adjusted snake.

I only do this with my snakes when they seem receptive to it. I only handle them when they come out of their hides on their own and if they seem in a good mood. If not I just leave them be. Most I have to fight to get back into their cages, they don't want to go back!

In a situation where there will be lots of people, I would be especally careful of how close people would get to me. I'm certainly not shy to tell someone to not get too close or act stupid around my snake to freak it out. I also only let very few people touch or handle my snake, I don't like the idea of strangers touching my snake and freaking it out that way either. But I will usually let one or two people that seem alright do so for a couple of minutes. People are very respectful of what I say in my personal experience, if I tell them not to move around too much around the snake with hand gestures, etc. It's amazing to see how well people listen!!! 2 minutes later they're warning everyone else not to do that! lol

Anyways, if your snake seems in a good mood to be handled that day and doesn't seem stressed out I say go ahead and bring him out with you. Try and make it relatively short of an outing and bring along a tote that you can put it back in to relax and hide away if he starts looking uncomfortable also a dish of water that you can offer during the time that you're out. That's what I do anyways. I don't do many public outings if not any these days, I prefer bringing my snakes to my parents house to romp in their yard but if there was some activities just for animals I might consider going.

Have fun

Pixie

[snakemann87]

when i take my snakes to the vets i use a pillow case, i heard this is alot less stressful than a container or such. Would any of you back this up or no?

[Pixie]

I use a combo of both and it depends on what I'll be doing and how long I'll be gone for.

A pillow case is perfect for traveling where the snake won't be moved much aside during transport and for examination. But when I go to my parent's for the day, I bring a tote and pillowcase. I use the pillowcase for the travelling and put inside the tote. When I'm at my folks after my snake has had enough fresh air, I put the snake in the tote with a water dish and then cover it with the pillow case so it doesn't get stressed. That way he can move and drink if he wants and not be too restrained for long.

Pixie

[Jeff_Favelle]

Just curious as to what clues you guys get when you think a snake is enjoying something?

Do they smile for you?

[Pixie]

No they don't smile for me.

I look at how stressed they seem to be. My snakes are tense, jumpy and other things of the like when stressed, often going into a defensive posture.

I "say" that my snakes aren't stressed when they are active and seemingly curious. Seeking to look out the new things around them, smelling the air, etc.

That's how I define when my snake seems happy or pissed. So no I don't hear my snake tell me: "this is so cool mom, thank for taking me out!" or "mom! I don't want to go out!" but I think that from how I "read" my snakes that I am picking up fairly good on their "mood".

Pixie

[Jeff_Favelle]

So you're saying that, by default, if a snake is not stressed, its automatically happy with the status quo?

Very interesting observation and not one that I share in the least. But to each his/her own.

Great discussion.

P.S. Snakes don't have moods or emotions. Human qualities and one of many put on reptiles for reasons unknown to me. You'd probably be surprised at what a snake is built to do in a normal day and what, if given the choice, a snake (particularily a BP) would choose to do.

[Pixie]

If you read my post, I never claim to know for a fact what my snake is feeling if it feels anything at all. I say he "seems" to be relaxed or whatever. It's pretty obvious when a snake seems stressed so I just take it that it "seems" content to be out when displaying relaxed type of behaviors. We'd all love to think that our herps enjoy something or have some kind of feeling but the truth is they most likely don't and we wont find out either way for quite some time.

Now, would the snake choose to go out? That's a good question. I don't think the snake would choose to go to a blessing per say! (who knows!!!) but I do think that pet snake do have the desire to explore outside their cage. If not, how do you explain my BP's trying to get out almost everynight for hours on end and snakes escaping in general?

So this debate can never truly be answered. Would a snake enjoy an outing? I would think so because it's something new to explore, etc. but on the other hand, what we give the snake to explore and what it would choose are two completely different things. A snake would explore dark corners and prefer not being seen as opposed to being brought out to a park where there are people and other animals.

But how does one know that the snake doesn't like the outing? It can't tell you that either!

Hence why I try to "read" my snake as well as I can and respect it's "mood" or whatever else you want to call it!

This is a very interesting discussion indeed!

Pixie

[fateamber]

I don't think it is fair to say snakes do or do not have feelings because they can't talk, although it is pretty certain that they don't you could never really know without them telling you which they can't. We are all animals though so why shouldn't they have thoughts and feelings like us you could say we have bigger brains but we don't use all our brain, i'm almost certain cats are more intalligent than humans.

[ReptiZone]

man you ppl should be posting on the agrsive snake thread that is the debat that is going on right now.

but on a flipe side we have all ben to reptile shows and I find there is nothing more stressful for them then that. But some of the most respected ppl still bring there animals there and risc the healt and well bieng but they still do it.
Can you imagine what would hapen is a few animals have IBD that would be a disater.

[reptilesalonica]

Funny ....blessing every pet. I never heard of that. Be sure that temps don't climb high inside the tupperware. It might die in a few minutes.
~Greg~

[Bryce Masuk]

i say its stupid to take a snake anywhere unless it must be done like selling a snake shipping a snake or a vet trips snakes captive snakes have WEAK immune systems since they dont have to figth anything off taking them out side exposes them to bacteria they normally dont have to deal with in there enclosure

[BurmBaroness]

OK, I take my snakes to area schools every year for educational purposes. It helps more people see that snakes are fascinating creatures, not to be feared, but to be admired. The snakes don't "seem" to mind, as they are very calm and relaxed, and the kids AND teachers enjoy it immensely. Just my little part, cause I believe education is the key for future herpers, and maybe a lessening of irrational fear for the lay person. And you think THAT is stupid??? Makes me wonder ................

[The_Omen]

P.S. Snakes don't have moods or emotions. Human qualities and one of many put on reptiles for reasons unknown to me. You'd probably be surprised at what a snake is built to do in a normal day and what, if given the choice, a snake (particularily a BP) would choose to do.

Prolly the same thing most of us guys would do if in the wild..
Eat, sleep, eat, sleep, eat some more then poop and scratch......

[Beejay]

[i]... but on a flipe side we have all ben to reptile shows and I find there is nothing more stressful for them then that....[/B]

I'm sure educational shows and the likes are about the same. In any case...I think it's a personal choice and that the owner of the animal should take cues from the animal as to how much to handle, cart around and expose it to others.

Just my humble opinion.

Bj

[Wrath]

It's not that big a deal. I wouldn't take her if I thought that I would be stressing her. It's not like I'm going to wrap her around my neck and run around. It's a very lovely event. I just want to make sure that she is ok with the ride out and back and such, what with her being away from home for so long.

As a matter of fact, I KNOW that she quite enjoys being handled and taken out. She is mellow and inquisitive, and she practically wrestles me when I try to put her back in her tank. My rosy could probably care less for an outing, but I think that it will be a real treat for her.

I didn't mean to start such a heated debate. It almost started to sound like kingsnake on this thread......

[Jeff_Favelle]

As a matter of fact, I KNOW that she quite enjoys being handled and taken out.


Well I'm glad you KNOW that she enjoys that. I guess we can now call you the Snake Wisperer.

Can you come over and tell me what my female Ball Pythons are thinking and why they aren't ovulating yet? That'd be nice.

[Bryce Masuk]

The reason she wrestles you is because she wants to escape or is afraid that when you put her down you will attack and eat her

[Joe]

whats the whole point of this discussion? people can say whatever they want and othere's will still do what they want, arguing who is right and who is wrong is pointless. what has been said are peoples views on this subject, getting ignorant and loud about it won't change a thing. People are still going to do as they please......enjoy what you have and happy herping!

[Lizzy]

Well said Joe!

Lizzy

[Jeff_Favelle]

whats the whole point of this discussion? people can say whatever they want and othere's will still do what they want, arguing who is right and who is wrong is pointless. what has been said are peoples views on this subject, getting ignorant and loud about it won't change a thing. People are still going to do as they please......enjoy what you have and happy herping!

Well then what's the purpose of a public forum to discuss reptiles at all then? Huh? I don't understand your point.

As for this thread, I think it is/was great. Lots of people said lots of intelligent things, and if I was a noo-bee to reptiles in general, or snakes in particular, I would be writing this stuff down to learn more. I've been breeding snakes for 12 years and I totally thought all the repsonses were great, even if I didn't agree with them. And isn't that what a public forum is all about?

[Jeff_Favelle]

If you read my post, I never claim to know for a fact what my snake is feeling if it feels anything at all. I say he "seems" to be relaxed or whatever. It's pretty obvious when a snake seems stressed so I just take it that it "seems" content to be out when displaying relaxed type of behaviors. We'd all love to think that our herps enjoy something or have some kind of feeling but the truth is they most likely don't and we wont find out either way for quite some time.

I did read your post. And I read this one too. And all I get from it is that you seem to think that your snakes are either calm and relaxed or stressed and flighty. No in between? I think that that's generalizing snake behaviour and is not altogether accurate.

I don't think the snake would choose to go to a blessing per say! (who knows!!!) but I do think that pet snake do have the desire to explore outside their cage. If not, how do you explain my BP's trying to get out almost everynight for hours on end and snakes escaping in general?

So you observe your snake trying to squeeze out of its surroundings and scale the cage walls etc etc etc and you interpret this as the snake trying to escape? I find that very interesting because I highly doubt that Ball Pythons have a concept of being caged. I don't honestly think that my snakes are plotting to escape at night when they become active because they aren't happy being in "jail". They don't have that level of self consciousness. They are sentient, I'll give them that, but they lack consciousness so there is no way they can conceptualize being caged. They are simply trying to get somewhere because the cage is not meeting one or more of their requirements at that moment in time. Nothing more.

As for "fresh air" and being out in the open, well I have to disagree there as well (big surprise eh?). They don't respire like you or I do. They don't take a big breathe and go "ahhhhhh flavour country" or "this fresh air makes me feel so alive". It just doesn't happen. They are fossorial (bad term) by nature and spent a majority of time underground in crummy burrows in hot hot Africa. I don't picture wild Ball Pythons gathering to breathe in the fresh air and romp in the open together. They haven't evolved to do that, and for some reason, people want to force that on them.

And that's what I don't understand. I don't really care. I mean, you could BBQ and eat them for all I care. But don't theorize and say false statements to justify things that I very well know a BP will not "enjoy".

Thoughts?

[Joe]

Well I'm glad you KNOW that she enjoys that. I guess we can now call you the Snake Wisperer.
Can you come over and tell me what my female Ball Pythons are thinking and why they aren't ovulating yet? That'd be nice.



This is all I was saying jeff, I agree that the forums are for people to get together and discuss issues I didn't say that it wasn't, all I was saying is that there is no reason to be ignorant, you made your points (I actually agree with you!) but there is no reason to be rude about it!

[Jeff_Favelle]

But sometimes if you don't point things out blatantly, people don't get it.

Even still, sometimes they miss it.

[Wrath]

Just as an update. I took her, it was great, the only other snakes I saw there were bp's (3 others), and the SW Herp Society was there with some iguana's and turtles. All in all a good time.

Jeff, I don't appreciate your sarcasm; I don't post on these boards to get chastized.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I don't get it.

Do you not like the way I worded my reply to your query, or do you not like the fact that it wasn't what you wanted to hear?

You came hear asking for advice and opinions on taking a Ball Python out to a picnic thingy. People gave you advice and great discussions were had and people probably learned a lot. But instead of saying "wow, I never thought of that" or "that's something I should consider", you decided to argue. And now, when you don't like they way people back up their claims and state their points, you tell them you don't "appreciate it".

Well that's something I don't appreciate.

[BoidKeeper]

Jeff,

Isn't this the very same type of thread that contributed to the hiatus? Pick and choose Jeff, pick and choose.
Cheers,
Trevor

[marisa]

I think the point that is important is that no snake "enjoys" doing the things we do, no snake can even understand he is in a cage, he cannot fathom that idea. They just don't have the mental capabilities.

And as this is true, and we humans often put our own emotions to animals that simply cannot have them...we should all think about this when doing something with our snakes we "think" they will enjoy.

My point? Sure take your BP to something if it will have no ill effects on health, but at the same time don't assume he thinks he is at a party. Assume things off facts. Fact, BPs live in borrows in Africa. Fact: they live to survive, live to eat, sleep, grow and breed. Period. As long as you use facts for the basis of reasoning when trying to figure out if something is good for your snake, then I personally feel it will be o.k. But when human emotions such as "enjoy" "like" and "fun" are brought into the mix, things are no longer based on the animal, but on the person.

:)

Marisa

[Jeff_Favelle]

Thinking about it again Trev. Wondering what the heck public forums actually have to offer anymore.

Marisa: Hoy moly that was an excellent post! No joke. You rule.

[paul_le_snake]

good to see u back in the frame jeff, and good work marisa.couldn't have said it better myself!
cheers
paul

[BoidKeeper]

Agreed, very well saind Marisa. I also find that people try to apply too much human comon sence to the herp world.
Cheers,
Trevor