baby retic feeding question

[ReptiZone]

I met this chick a reptile show and she had a baby retic on display it was a verry tame retic and then went on teling me she did not like ppl who boost there snakes (power feed).
after that I told her that I hade a burm that was 6 feet at 8 monts old female and she said that i was insane she asked me how often I fed my snakes I told her when it was a baby it was 2 rats every 3 day but once she hit 4 feet it was 3-4 rats every saturday once it was 6 feet it was eating a small rabit every saturday and later on it was eating 2 small rabits every second saturday

then she told me she was feeding her baby retic once every 3 week to a month and her male burm was a year and a half and was only 4 feet.

I figured that this can not be healthy for the snakes could this stun there groth speed I wounderd then I thaught of you guys I figured some one can inform me on the subject

[J_Riley]

Well, personally, I think you're overfeeding and she's underfeeding.

I personally feed neonates/juveniles once every 5 days and after 8 months or so, once a week. Once they hit the 12 month mark, I switch to once every 10 days and once they're 2 years + (unless it's a really slow maturing species), every 14 days.

I also try to feed one appropriately sized food item per feeding, but sometimes that's not possible with finicky snakes. For instance, I have a 4' ratsnake that won't eat rats, so he ends up with 2 large mice instead.

She is feeding her juvenile on an adult schedule, IMO. Probably very similar to their feeding frequency in the wild. It may stunt their growth in relation to captive python growth rates, but I don't think it's going to do any physical damage. It may make for an irritable, constantly hungry snake though.

Overfeeding is just as unhealthy as underfeeding, the musclature grows too fast in relation to the skeletal system. While it is not uncommon for a properly fed burm to hit 8' by it's first birthday, a 4' burm eating 3-4 rats, even small rats is too much.

But I don't own the snake, you do, this is just my opinion.

[herm]

Did your Burm ever regurge?

[nicola_boulton]

i think mabey feedin like she did was stunting the growth but it will live 4 longer than power feeding a snake.

[ReptiZone]

no my burm never re-gurged and it was on a steady feeding diet until it was sold I dont know how it is now I was 17 and was feeding it as long as it would eatso I never thaught I was doing any thing wrong untill the vet told me to continue the way I was but to only do it once a week. that is what I did and later on i figured I could try to feed it biger things and what do you know it took it down like it was nothing and after the fecond guiny pig I tryed a rabit and that is when you start to see a groath spur so that is how my burm got so big so fast.

[Herpkingdom]

Having had many burms and retics over the years I tend to think that she was underfeeding and Chrondo was over feeding.
I have never fed a snake more than once a week. I've raised retics and burms from babies to over 15 feet on weekly feedings. There is no need to get a snake to be 15 feet in 18 months. It is not good for the snake. For people who want to breed these large snakes, they are not only an investment of money but time as well. Even with colubrdis many people feed them every few days in order to get them big enough to breed in two years instead of waiting an extra year. You just end up with a small clutch and a very thin female afterwards that may or may not recover from the ordeal.

So weekly feeding is my advice. Just be sure to have to proper size feeder. I fed my baby burms 2 mice a feeding and after 5-6 months went to small rats. Same with the retics. Once on rats I would just up the size rat as I felt was warranted. Then as adults they were switched to rabbits, and again the size was increased as the snake's girth did.

Even now I feed my snakes weekly. No point in stressing them out trying to get them ready for this year. I'd rather wait a year and get more viable eggs from them then to get 10 eggs now that most likely won't even hatch.

[The_Omen]

i think mabey feedin like she did was stunting the growth but it will live 4 longer than power feeding a snake.

Stunting growth due to lack of food equals starving.
this has it's own miriad of problems, immuno system, the heart, lungs, kidneys, all systems are affected by this and will shorten any animals lifespan.

Power feeding on the other hand, can still affect all the same syatems, in much the same negative way.
it can and will leave fatty deposits aroung all the organs, especially the heart and lungs, giving them a reduced capacity of operation, over tax the liver and kidneys to the point of failure and still lead to an early demise of the animal.


There needs to be a balance on the food intake.

Too little or too much are both bad.

[Snake Lady]

Hello Everyone!

Well im snakelady as you all know im chondros gf as well. I dont know the whole story with the burm cause he had it when he was younger and before he met me. I know he had to sell it due to him moving here to quebec. All i can say is that we have 2 columbian boas(BCI) right now and they are not overfed. We got them from JK reptiles and they were feeding them every tuesday and thats what we are doing now to keep it like a routine.

Plus as i reread his post earlier, he said he fed his burm every 3 days when he was a baby? so... when he was a little bigger ,which wasnt too long after, he slowed down and ate every week...and then every two weeks. I dont think that its that bad. Its not like he was feeding them huge meals every 2-3 days all the days of that burms life just to get him bigger. As i can see..yah he was feeding him every 3 days when he was little..but he was feeding him exactly like you (herpkingdom) every week like a month later. So it didnt do much to his way of life afterall.

Well, thats just my point of view..its not that im backing my bf up...cause if he was wrong..id admit it but i just dont think he was that wrong because yah he didnt know probably but like 3 weeks after..the vet told him to feed it every week.

I never thaught I was doing any thing wrong untill the vet told me to continue the way I was but to only do it once a week.

Omen i agree totally with you. Some people really dont know how much their snakes are supposed to eat. They should really ask and do a little research. :)

:pSnake Lady:p

[The_Omen]

Well,
I am glad thatyou clarified chondro for us, as it read to me, and others, like he was power feeding it pretty bad.
But with the feeding that you said, much better!
Thanks for filling in the gaps and details! :)

[Snake Lady]

Hey Omen and others,

Its no problem...sometimes chondro doesnt spell his words right and it makes the whole post a little hard to understand cause he writes too fast. Sometimes you gotta bare with him also and ask him what he means. :)

Snake Lady

[Herpkingdom]

Ah, but the question is what was it fed?

I bet they fed it an adult pig or small deer. If that is the case then it will only need to be fed that many times. Adults snakes grow slower, their metabolism slows down and it takes longer for food to digest. I am sure they didn't feed the snake twice a year all its life. Young giant snakes, even young adults, need to be fed more frequently than 2 times a year. or even once every 6 to 8 weeks. Adults, that are say, over 15 to 20 years can go without food for longer periods of time due to their slower metabolism. But not young snakes that are in their first 10 years.

But this is a subject that everyone who ahs ever owned a giant snake will have an opinion on. And not everyone will agree.

[Aaron_S]

Vic,did you mean the oldest ginat python that lied in captivity? Cause a ball python lived for 48.

[Herpkingdom]

ok, now that's a little hard to believe.

First off most boa constrictors (BCC & BCI) get over 6 feet as adults. Seconds, snakes, being reptiles, grow until they die. So a 33 year old boa is going to get more than 6 feet. That means this snake was under fed just to keep it small which amounts to animal cruelity.

And I have books that state some snakes have lived longer than 33 years in captivty. And the one book was published in 1975 so that means you info in inaccurate.

[Ed_r]

I guess that would make All my BCIs Powerfed then. Heck i just fed my BCIs more in one night than that snake supposedly had all year. That is flat out cruelty. Seeing how little a snake can exist on.:mad:

[The_Omen]

Sorry but i have to dissagree with what you say about under feeding a snake and the symptoms you listed, the oldest snake ever recorded in captivity lived to be over 33 years old, it was fed twice a year

I agree with what herpkingdom says.
The older a snake, the less it needs, which even better emphasizes my point about a balance.

If a 33 year old snake was eating twice a year, then that is what it needed, thus, its' balance was met.

Overfeeding and under feeding apply to EVERY living creature on this planet.

Human examples are:

Calista Flockhart - Underfed.
Arnold Swartzenegger - balance met for him.
Rosy O'Donnel - overfed.
Karen Carpenter - underfed, which led to a heart failure at an early age.

Trust me, everything has a balance that needs to be met to prevent an increase or a decrease towards bad or good.
If the balance is to eat a lot due to youth and growth spurts, so be it.
If the balance is less intake due to age and maturity, so be it, it's still a balance.

[The_Omen]

Ok, snake example - Fluffy the retic owned by Bob Clark.

Power fed to make a record.
It's balance has not been met due to massive over feeding.

Snake at the zoo you mentioned-

Its balance was OBVIOUSLY not met in its younger years, hence the small size.
However, in its later years, the balance was met, in order to continue stability of the metabolism, which was LOWER due to its age.

You may be correct about the snakes age and size, but I am wondering if you may be confused on the species.
maybe it was the BP that lived so long that you are thinking of here.

Tell ya what, I'll wait before posting again in hopes that you do find the article for us.
That way we can see exactly what we are now discussing.

No need to continue untill we know the why, where and who's, ya know!


Edited by me to correct a typo.....

[jpaulson]

Snake Lady and Chondro,

As I was reviewing this thread, I noticed that no one mentioned anything about gut flora and over feeding.

Although Chondro may not of knew at the time, but feeding your snakes every 3 or 4 days can be harmful to your snake. A snakes stomach is lined with gut flora, basically a bacteria that helps in breaking up and digesting the prey. As it begins to work on a prey item, much of the bacteria (gut flora) is used up. If you do not give the snake ample time to replenish the gut flora, you can cause some serious health risks to your snake. Feeding too often does not give the snake the time it needs to replace the flora. The end result, damage to the digestive system, and possibly the build-up of excess gases. Always wait at least 5 days between feedings (minimum).

[ReptiZone]

You are right jpaulson I was rather naive about the situation I only learned about stomach flora when I brought my burm in for its first check up (3 weeks after I got her).

Vic,
man i dont think the omen was trying to be offensive he was just telling you that B4 he post anything that could bash you in any way he wants to see what you read and where you got it from that way he can check it out to and then make a judgement and then post.

now I realy need to go with Aaron S on this one if I remember correctly it was a ball python and it belongs to Ugean Doucet for the USA but I think I speldt his name wrong.

as far as feeding 2 times a year I cant see that hapaning not for a boa BCI or BCC because a burm eats big pray items to last that long (like pigs or deer) a boa would have to be eating larg rabits and I mean verry big to eat every 6 mont and maby more then one per feeding and to be feeding a snake somthing that big and that amount it would have no choice but to grow evean a ball wold grow under thos sercumstances not huge but at least to a notacible size eaven a male BCI would pass the 5 foot mark man it could pass the 7 foot mark at 33 years of age caus reptiles never stop growing until they die.


I am verry tired I just got back from the bar I will corect my spelling in the morning I just hade to wright my ideas B4 I forgot them so see you in the morning

[Herpkingdom]

Ok, as for stating that we have unqulified opinion, that is uncalled for.

I have over 27 years raising and keeping reptiles and amphibians of all shapes and sizes. I've raised retics and burms from hathclings to full adults. So I feel I am qualified to state what I did.

Now I know of Ball pythons that have only eaten twice a year as adults and are only 6', but not any kind of BCC or BCI.

You say you are stating fact because you read it somewhere, well I once read an article that said a retic ate a sleeping oil worker and I even saw photos too, but that wasn't fact! It was all an elaborate hoax. Heck, even in this site there is a photo of a boa who supposedly swallowed its own head, but know what.......
it is a hoax too!

So don't say you are stating facts, just show us where you read about this and let us decide if it is a fact in our eyes.

I am not bashing you, but with my "qualified" opinion, I don't believe what it is you read.

[The_Omen]

No need to take a sarcastic view in your posts towards me, i base a lot of my views on factual evidence i read from books

Ever read the book 'Anaconda' ?

Anyway, it was not being mean towards you in any fashion.
You wanted me to not use human examples so I didn't.
I instead used a snake that anyone that loves retics would know.

Diet balance applies to EVERY living creature, even plants.

A few plant examples can be had by researching or even asking farmers and botanists.
Ask them what happens when it rains steady for a month on a strawberry or watermelon farmers crop.
Ask what happens when a farmer fails to rotate the crops or fails to replenish that soil with the proper essentials such as fertalizer, manure and others to replace what has been taken away.

In other words, a balance can be upset for ANYTHING that consumes.

And in my last few statements from the last post I made on this thread,

That way we can see exactly what we are now discussing.
No need to continue untill we know the why, where and who's, ya know!


I am willing to give you all the time you need to find what you are looking for in order to set us straight on the matter.

How is that taking a sarcastic view of you?
Especially when I haven't made any views yet.

I am still willing to let you find what you seek, it can be a learning experience for us all.

[Aaron_S]

Well Vic you had said you had thought it was a boa,correct? If so then it could possibly be an anaconda the book was referring to since anacondas are closely related to the boa constrictor family.

[The_Omen]

Well Vic you had said you had thought it was a boa,correct? If so then it could poisslby be an anaconda the book was referring to since anacondas are closely related to the boa constrictor family.

That would be even more unbelievable.... For a 33 year old 6 feet long annie that is.

No the snake was a boa constrictor i believe in a USA zoo and grew to a length of 6 feet, i have the details in a book , i will look it up some time and post it.


But Vic,
No, it is not a flame on you or your knowledge.
It is a thirst for knowledge as we want to learn as much as we can about the animals we love so much.
If you can teach us something then we ALL accomplished something here!

If not, then in time, maybe one of us will turn up what you are trying to tell us and can see for ourselves.
In the meantime, please do not take a differing opinion as a flame towards yourself.
I have seen many threads ruined due to that way of thinking and even a few forums shut down completely due to it.

This isn't the Vic Show, nor is it The_Omen Show.

This IS ssnakess, an open forum which allows discussions of and sometimes dissagreements of opinions about the animals that we are ALL here to talk of and learn about.

Here's another way to think about a differing opinion, rather that feeling they are flames...

Use the varied from your own opinions as a learning tool.
Take your opinion AND the others, read them, then do research on and form your own new opinion.
You may be suprised at how much knowledge can be gained just from researching out what others say.


Remeber, knowledge is power and power is knowledge.

[Tim and Julie B]

Although Tim and I are fairly new to feeding large snakes(we're babysitting an 8' burmese-he's gorgeous!) I have always been one for reading as much herp related stuff as possible, including feeding large snakes and such. There seems to be a lot of debate as to how much is too much. Some people say that if your snake is willing to eat that you should go ahead and feed it, because in the wild they search out prey when they are hungry. On the other hand, many people say that larger snakes wait for food to come to them and so you should only feed a juvenile once a week and adults every 5-8 days. I do know that it is very possible to both over-feed and under-feed any animal. I would assume that if you are alert to your individual snakes needs, that you could likely tell whether or not it is gaining too much weight or perhaps not gaining enough. This could be solved by weighing an animal at regular intervals and recording it so that you could see whether or not weight gain is consistant. Another factor is finding a herp vet suited to this situation, one who has experience in determining a snakes health. It's not enough to look at animal and say "yes, it's healthy". A qualified vet could perform certain exams and tests that would let an owner know how healthy their animal truley is. Then again, who wants to haul around their 6-10 foot burm to the vet office? Of course it is still necessary to any animals health to have check-ups. This sort of topic is far too vast to have any solid answers. A person could only assume that their snake is eating properly, based on weight gain and growth. I'm not sure that I have offered anything truley useful, but I am very interested in learning as much as I can about large snakes. :DJulie B.

[Mike177]

you are kinda pushing the limit on feeding. i personaly feed my burm one rat a week. that way she growes at a stedy pace not to fast and not to slow. she sounds like she is under feeding. i have heard of people realy starving burms and haveing them stay like 6 feet there whole life. witch realy isent a good idea. but i have heard that power feeding is not healthy and it cuts down on the overall life of your snake

just my $1.00 - $0.98

[ReptiZone]

Ok for thos of you that hace the whats wrong with my snake book on page 57 it is all about feeding frequency and obesity.

In a nut shell it states that the average snake in a temperated- zone in the wild will eat 2 times its own body wight per year.

witch means an averge one pound snake will eat two pounds of mice a year that is about 18 mice at a wight 50 grams (0.11pounds) a year.

so lets say 1 mouse every 2 weeks that would be 2 mice a month and some snakes go off feed when they shed so we will still say 2 mice a month 12 months in a year that is about 24 mice a year and most of us probebly feed 2 mice every 2 weeks witch is 48 mice a year that would still be acseptable.

I look back on it now and i see that my burm was eating a bit to much but by the end it was on a great diet because her wight was ideal to the intake of food per week. just thaught I would share my findings.