Most Aggresive Snake

[Mike177]

In your opinion what is the MOST aggresive, non-venomous snakes that can be kept in captivity

[RachelS.]

Rock Pythons!

Scrub Pythons and most of the Morelia family also fall under this category

[XxRachxX]

well for me its a 3ft kingsnake! it by far THE most aggressive snake at work! hes one of the smallest out the lot! but i dont really know other that that! just thought id say! any snake can be agressive!

[jpaulson]

I'd have to say either a African Rock or a Retic. Although these snakes can be tamed, these are the least likely to tame easily.

[J_Riley]

A w/c coachwhip...

[eyespy]

Either a rock python or an Amazon tree boa.

[Edwin]

Most aggressive in my collection: Texas ratsnake

Most aggressive experienced: Green anaconda, retic

[ReptiZone]

no such thing as a aggressive snake.
snakes hunt and kill to eat the only agresif animal on the earth is a human we hunt to kill for the sport and we kill each other for no aperent reason a snake kills to defend breed or eat not for the shear plesure of doing it.

All the snakes listed above are nervous snakes that dont come acrose a lage animals in the wild verry often so they freek out when they see us and try to defend them selfs dos that make any sence to any one or was I just typing to fill a gap.

[BurmBaroness]

Makes sense to me, chondro. They only seem aggressive out of fear, mostly, and a desire to be away from an animal(us) that they are not familiar with nor like.

[Christina]

It is true that snakes do not normally kill for pleasure or sport. But other animals (NOT ONLY HUMANS) do for instance Ive seen a common house cat kill mice and not eat them sport or pleasure?? weasels will commonly raid chicken coops and kill every chicken in the coop and may only eat one if any. So is this sport or pleasure ??? As for the question my most aggresive snake is my common Boa . He is also my fastest and most accurate striker . any sp can be aggressive .

[ReptiZone]

cats are verry teratorial and dont want mice snooping around and stealing there food. Chikens protect each other if a weesel wants to eat one it has to kill everything that poses a potential threat to his meal or him self one chiken dies the rest will try to hunt the weasel out of the coop witch results in death of the rest of the colonie they dont go in a kill a bunch of chikens and walk out empty handed like the columbine kids (dont want to affend any one who may have ben envolved in that tragaty)

[Andy_G]

Prbably retic/rock

I always thought snakes could get angry and bite...am I wrong? I can't imagine a 20 foot retic being afraid of a human being, but maybe I don't know enough about snakes, could someone clear that up for me?

[ReptiZone]

if snakes cant love they cant hate and if they cant hate they cant get angery.

if you spook a snake that was sleeping it may turn and bite you if you pooke a snake too much it may feal threatend and bite you but you cant make it mad or angery or agresif. It just dosent sound right that is like saying if you cudel your snake every day it will start to love you or somthing like that. snimals have instincs not fealings

[Matt]

chinese king ratsnake!

[nicola_boulton]

id say a rectic they strike out like theres no 2moro!!!!

[asphyxia]

I would have to say the trouser snake is by far the most aggressive especially when in hunting mode.


Cheers
Brian

[peregrinefalcon]

I'd say African rock pythons and Amazon tree boas.
Adam

[tHeGiNo]

Originally posted by asphyxia
I would have to say the trouser snake is by far the most aggressive especially when in hunting mode.


Cheers
Brian

LMFAO! Agreed.

[Bryce Masuk]

I highly doubt conda's and retics are the most agressive but i would bet you would rember there strike more then any other snake

[hip]

hey yep trouser snake for sure meanest one on the planet meaner than all of em (weasles included)

[Burmies]

In my opinion I would have to say Reticulated pythons. See I own onw that its mother was wild, so I think it is in his blood. What ever it is, he snaps at the side of the cage when I walk by.

Burmies

[jpaulson]

Encarta Dictionary defines aggressive as: Likely to harm; showing a readiness or having a tendency to attack or do harm to others. I think that was the initial idea behind this post. Chondro, I honestly don't know where you are coming from here. Yes, snakes in general do not bite to be mean, there is usually an alterial motive behind it--feeding, defense, etc. BUT, if someone asks you what is the difference between a ball python and a african rock, it does not take a rocket scientist to see that you are less likely to get bit by the ball python. This is the same in just about all of God's creatures. If you go out into the woods and start picking up animals, some will bite you, while others will not. So what is the difference? ALL wild caught animals will react differently to human interaction--do they all feel threatened? Yes. Will they all bite? No. This is the whole basis behind the question of this post. Some are more apt to bite, others are not. This is what makes certain animals AGGRESSIVE and others not. Read the ditionary definition again--those that show a tendency to attack. Would you get the same reaction if you tried to pick up a wild boar as you would a wild salamander? Of course not. That is because one is more aggressive than the other.

You also stated that "If snakes can love, then they can't hate and if they can't hate then they can't get angry." But then you go on to say that "animals have instincts, not feelings." Sounds to me to be a contradiction. The act of love or hate is a feeling, not just an instinct. The real question should be, do snakes have feelings? I believe they do, just as they have instincts as well. To say that there is no such thing as an aggressive snake, in my opinion, is incorrect. Certain animals(snakes) have certain reactions to certain situations. Some react with aggression, others do not.

[snake_girl]

I'm going to say the ratsnake at my work that we named Evil because he's gotten out twice and bitten every employee there. second would have to be the retic python.

grace

[J_Riley]

Originally posted by jpaulson
Would you get the same reaction if you tried to pick up a wild boar as you would a wild salamander? Of course not. That is because one is more aggressive than the other.

No offense, but that's a poor example. A salamander's primary defense is the toxins in it's skin, kind of a passive defense mechanism. I would think you'd need to compare 2 animals that both include biting as a defense mechanism. Therefore, a ringneck snake would also be a poor example. But I get your point.

I have picked up some wild ratsnakes and not suffered a bite. I cannot, however, say the same thing about black racers. EVERY one I've picked up in the wild has bitten me.


You also stated that "If snakes can love, then they can't hate and if they can't hate then they can't get angry." But then you go on to say that "animals have instincts, not feelings." Sounds to me to be a contradiction.

I think that was a typo, I believe he meant to say "can't love".

[ReptiZone]

Ya my bad about the can love it was suposed to be can't.

jpaulson... you made a good point on the definition from the dictionary but again royal python is clasified as passive defense hense the name ''ball python''. Now lets compare active defenses retic and rock pythons. but first

''likely to harm; showing a readiness or having a tendency to attack or do harm to others''.

yes go pick up any wild animal and it will show all of those symptoms but why would you f*** with rock python in the wild for anyways.

If you walk buy it at a RESPECTABLE distance is it likely to harm any thing will it show readiness will it have a tendency to attack or do harm. NO! you are at a respectabel distence and dont try to say it dosen't know that we are there, we all know how well a snakes smell is and they feal the vibrations well B4 you even know they are there.

But jump in past that comfert zone and instinct kicks in and they start to feal threatend there for they defend them selves actively and at that they will run unless somthing is stoping them (eggs,food,cornerd) all of witch would resault in a trip to the ER.

Now lets say us humans are smart enuf to stay in that comfert zone will the meanest of the meanest rocks start to chase us out will it try to attack or do harm to us NO why bother waste the energy he/she can sit back and wight for a meal to pass buy and waste the energy on that.

Unlike us humans who sit in a dark room ploting to destroy the world and take great care in planing everything and then we go up in a clock tower and open fire on ppl that did absolutly nothing and that are 100's of feet from our comfert zone and for what just so some sniper can put a bulet in our head because we coulden't do it our selves now that my friend is agressif not instinct.

and you seem to have a good hold on the dictionary there is a word used, to defin giving fealings to animals.

we humans have fealings if my G/F gose and makes love to the boy next door it will hurt my fealings if a male snake mates 6 females in less then an hour do you think the 1st female will care. if so all the breaders beter break up there trios and so on.

any way it was fun typing this cause I learned how to explain this to ppl when they ask me in the future. hope it cleared up a few things. :cool:

[V.hb]

I think for the sake of the arguement that is now starting, the thread title should have its name changed too "What snakes are the most THREATENED by human interaction" Instead of most aggressive. Although pretty much everyone understood the gist of the post anyways.... except well the obvious.

"Most humanly threatend snake" Red Coachwhip. They dont like being touched much. So i keep my "Respectable distance" yeah.. That sounds right. huh?

[V.hb]

PS Snakes do have feelings, for example.
if one is say.. Mistreated it may become hostile towards humans in general. Where as a snake can be handled with care and responsibility it will accept human interaction more readily. Of course some cases are a lost cause, but i do in fact feel that they do have feelings. Not many other animals on earth have a structure of feeling like humans. So i feel the comparison between snakes and humans is incredibly weak. Where is the comparison? I dont see one.

[ReptiZone]

first off man it would not be "What snakes are the most THREATENED by human interaction" it wold be what snake is the most defensive during human interaction.Cause snakes in general will be threaten but will defend them selves in a difrent maner. It is not the first time you try to give one of my post a hard time. Yes it is a lame comparesin snake fealings Vs human fealinghs but go get any wild caught rock or retic and love them all you want, then turn your back on them one day and then bam you have just become a statistic are you saying that a willd retic or rock is mistreated in it's natural home. I don't think that is the case a pasive captive bread rock or retic LEARNS that humans pose no threats there for will not tend to deffend them selves go ahead and beat up a retic for the best part of its life it will not becaume mad or agressive it will become a willd animal like it is suposed to be and it will regester in it's brain that humans are a threat and there for defend them selves against humans.

If you think you train a reptile and have it show ANY kind of afection twords you plz dont get any thing that can kill you becaus I dont want the reptile laws to get any worst then they are.

any way later ppl

[jpaulson]

Chondro, you made some valid points--well taken. I was only commenting on the fact that you stated that there "are no such thing as an aggressive snake". We could go around and around and around on this subject, and nit-pick it to death, and bring up all kinds of illustrations and examples. In my opinion, there are aggressive snakes--that is how I see it, and how it is defined by our dictionary use of it.

IMO, BTW, there is no difference between saying "which snake is most THREATENED" and "which snake is most DEFENSIVE"--they go hand in hand. Anything that is threatened will be defensive, and anything showing defensive tendencies is doing so because it feels threatened. Lets not chew this thing to death here, guys.

Good points made by each side--a good debate as well. I, for one, never turn down a good debate. :)

[V.hb]

affection is a type of of emotion! there are MILLIONS!
humans show many of these, snakes dont! bad comparison! put one and one together.

Defensive!?!?! place the two together man, those that are threatened become defensive! same thing.

as far as giving your posts a hard time, you come off sounding as if you give everyone elses posts a hard time, so look at your own then talk. Iam simply correcting you, sorry mr einstein for disagreeing.

[Snake Lady]

Hello Everyone!

Ahh once again a debate that i can relate to! hehe Remember at all times that im one of the most calm people here when it comes to debating and i dont usually try to offend people! Right Omen! hehe LOL

Well, first of all, i think that the most NERVOUS snake ive seen in action is the retic since ive seen three rock pythons and they all had great attitude even a rescue one from the spca.

Second, i think that the snake in general becomes "agressive" (like you people tend to say although i dont like the use of the word), when and only when the person that owns them doesnt do a good job at keeping and handling them. People that own rocks,retics,burms,anacondas and even most colubrids (to some people...hehe) should take the time to read up on these snakes and not just their care requirement but also proper handling techniques. If someone owns a retic and never takes it out to handle it...of course its going to snap at you through the cage!!LOL

What i mean is if you buy a baby retic,rock, etc. You take the time and Handle it often..therefor it will bite you less and be less nervous around humans. Thats for the babies..like i went to a show in montreal and there was a retic there was 6-8 feet and it was a sweetheart cause she handled it often and it was less nervous around people.

Now for you people who have large constrictors to start off with (like you buy them and they are not babies), if youre too scared or nervous to handle the snake because its already half way full grown, then you dont have to. You just leave it on display but dont go and take it out to show a friend. Just leave it in its cage and when it comes cleaning time..grab a hook..move the snake to the side..slip a divider in the middle of the cage..clean that side and do the same with the other side, therefor there is only a small chance you get bitten. If you want to handle a retic after that, buy yourself a baby one but leave that one alone..know what i mean?

People dont seem to understand..its just like any other animal..like your pet dog for example. If you tie it up in your backyard and never go see it..then you stick him in the middle of a crowd..what do you think his reaction is going to be? Have a good attitude and play with the people..of course not..he will probably be soo nervous that he would want to get out of there the fastest possible.

Some people also get these big constrictors only for display and they leave them in the cages all the time...then one day to be "cool" they decide to show it off and they get bitten at the first chance the snake gets..is it its fault? Of course not. If the only interaction the snake gets is when you feed it..then he is not used to human interaction at all and is nervous and afraid you will hurt him.

Lost Cause? Thats a lame term. Everyone who owns large constrictors or any other snake..you know as much as i do that if we are having little problems with our snakes, for example, being a little nippy, we dont just give up on them and say they are a "lost cause". Come on people!

Okay..as for the snakes having feelings..you can believe that all you want. Its really nice and cute if you think your ball python has feelings and he loves you because hes never bitten you..thats okay. But always remember deep down that they really dont have feelings and if they have a bad day one day..they could bite you. For example, Honduranfreek, (hope you dont mind kelvin), once said in his old posts..snakes dont have feelings and come and tell us when a large retic comes and kisses you in the back of the leg where it ends up in a nice present like 32 stitches.(not sure on the amount of stitches exactly and not sure of the size of the retic so i wont write it).

Wow this took me a long time to write!I find it fun to have debate like these! That way i learn how to express myself more..as you all know..i dont post alot..! It's mostly my boyfriend. Well people that was just my way of thinking..i just think that its kinda childish for someone who never takes his snake out and then asks himself why the snake bit him?..If a snake bit me..id ask myself what i did wrong..i wouldnt say the snake is automatically agressive.

Hope to hear from you guys soon!

:)Snake Lady:)

[Snake Lady]

Ohh yah..j paulsen .. i like having debates with people like you...as far as the other person goes after you.. he most likely..just debates with a more mean attitude.. he should learn to debate like us..and not point at certain people.

Snake Lady :)

Sorry just had to say it!

[V.hb]

Also, its too my knowledge snakes have a learning mind. they learn as they go. Ive read and seen documentories on Komodos, crocs, alligators ETC learning too put a sound, and food into one hence when the bell goes, its dinner time and the animal searches out food.
So if one owner abuses a reptile, it is going to learn that humans are a threat. and as i said before, some animals have a natural tendency too be "flighty" and aggressive due too their natural disposition. And no.. So you dont misconcieve my thoughts again, obviously nobody goes into the wild and abuses a wild snake hence the snake turns into a man-eater.. wild snakes rarely come into contact with humans, therefore they are "threatend" or "defensive" by their presence. this has absolutly nothing to do with affection. :)

[V.hb]

OH MY GOD!!! where is the "snakes love me" crap coming from??? nobody said their snake shows affection! affection is a part of emotion, not ALL of emotion! I personally know snakes are not affectionate nor are lizards. I dont think anyone implied this.

by the way, no offence meant on this, we all love our animals its just fun to gab about them. Its incredibly hard to communicate on the net. So sorry if you took my post the wrong way :)

[Snake Lady]

Okay..as for the snakes having feelings..you can believe that all you want. Its really nice and cute if you think your ball python has feelings and he loves you because hes never bitten you..thats okay. But always remember deep down that they really dont have feelings and if they have a bad day one day..they could bite you. For example, Honduranfreek, (hope you dont mind kelvin), once said in his old posts..snakes dont have feelings and come and tell us when a large retic comes and kisses you in the back of the leg where it ends up in a nice present like 32 stitches.(not sure on the amount of stitches exactly and not sure of the size of the retic so i wont write it).

Okay I said the whole thing about the feelings..Whoa Hold On! Never in the post did i say that some of you said that here. I was talking about people saying that in previous threads...I remember there was a whole post on Snakes and feelings. and there were a lot of people who said they belived that their snakes had feelings and stuff. Thats when honduranfreek said his story.

The reason i was posting that is because not only us read this post and if the people that were into the other thread..could have read this thread also! It was not directed to you! Dont take things so offensive! Obviously you need to calm down and stop finding little details on everybodys posts to argue.

Please stop bieng so mean so the thread doesnt get closed. Id like to hear more peoples opinions.

Thanks! :)Snake Lady:)

[snakelover111]

amazon tree boas

[V.hb]

Feelings does not nessecarily mean affection, thats all i said! if thats being mean iam sorry.

[storts]

You all need to keep more and speak less. Just my humble and wise beyond my years opinion...John

[ReptiZone]

man alot can be said when you are in the shower.

PS Snakes do have feelings, By V.hb.

The real question should be, do snakes have feelings? I believe they do By J.Paulsen

OH MY GOD!!! where is the "snakes love me" crap coming from??? nobody said their snake shows affection! affection is a part of emotion, not ALL of emotion! I personally know snakes are not affectionate nor are lizards. I dont think anyone implied this. By V.hb.

Okay..as for the snakes having feelings..you can believe that all you want. Its really nice and cute if you think your ball python has feelings and he loves you because hes never bitten you..thats okay. But always remember deep down that they really dont have feelings and if they have a bad day one day..they could bite you. For example, Honduranfreek, (hope you dont mind kelvin), once said in his old posts..snakes dont have feelings and come and tell us when a large retic comes and kisses you in the back of the leg where it ends up in a nice present like 32 stitches.(not sure on the amount of stitches exactly and not sure of the size of the retic so i wont write it). By Snake Lady

it well stated IF you (in a general sense) think your ball python has FEELINGS and loves you........ Then she had to justify herself after you V.hb said that no one said that snakes had feelings (not in those words but basically if they have feelings they must be able to show affection) and you said they cannot and do not show affection.

so lets get this straight:
FEALINGS=love, hate,sadnes,joy,anger......
LOVE=affection
EFFECTION= tendernes,attachement

I had to dust off the dictionary for this debate so lets make this clear. The minute a person says that a snake has fealings it includes all of the above.

And V.hb next time you want to say you did not or that nobody said something re read the whole thread so you dont get called on it.

BTW snake lady posted something B4 you and you decided to edit your post we all see when a edit is made.

by the way, no offence meant on this, we all love our animals its just fun to gab about them. Its incredibly hard to communicate on the net. So sorry if you took my post the wrong way By V.hb.

You changed it after snake lady defended her self and tryed to make her look like she was bashing you wrongfully but when she read it all she saw was

OH MY GOD!!! where is the "snakes love me" crap coming from??? nobody said their snake shows affection! affection is a part of emotion, not ALL of emotion! I personally know snakes are not affectionate nor are lizards. I dont think anyone implied this. By V.hb.

any way this was fun! I learned how to use the forums better and i cant wait to see what ppl have to say about this.

:cool:Chondro Python:cool:

[Tim and Julie B]

In the immortal words of Jim Carry " ALLLLRIGHTY THEN!"

Rocks bite more or are more threated or defencive or whatever you want to say. But for agressiveness when a Scrub actually chaces you and does not take that oppertunity to flee it's invading my personal comfert zone. I agree with Chondro that most times it is out of defense but some snakes are snappier then others.

If two of the exact same species of snake are raised in the same household by the same keeper why is one more likely to bite?

I am not calling anyone out I honestly want to know how this fits into your debate.- Tim

[marylyn101]

LOL!! TROUSER SNAKE!!
it has 2 meanings!!!

[ReptiZone]

Well lets see if I can give a logical observation.

Rocks bite more or are more threated or defencive or whatever you want to say.

Ha ha ha well you did a good job stating that, that way no one starts a new debate.

But for agressiveness when a Scrub actually chaces you and does not take that oppertunity to flee it's invading my personal comfert zone.

Well said the first thing I do in a situation like that is ask my self;

why was it chasing me?? What did I do? How badly did I disturb it? and of cours where did this whole thing hapen?

Don't forget a snake room or living room is far from being 100 acers of forest. Where the animal can flee and hide.

So ya come a cross a scrub that dosen't feel in top condition physicly, hungry, strested out from a trip of some sort.

Any of these can lead to a scrub with a difficult disposition. The only thing I can say is if it is safe to do so leave it alone and go and approch it later after it calmes down a bit. If you can not leave it the room to rest.

You AND your PARTENER (who should be with in arms reach at all times) will need to stand your ground and be ready to do your job as herpers.

This is a situation that should be avoided at all cost but a herper that choses to keep large reptile(snakes) should be ready for and if posible train for it every once and a while.

First off they sell equipment to regain control of a situation like this:

---there are snake hooks made for larg pythons (retic's, burm's rock's and scrubs).
---there is also realy long forceps( large tongs).
---and there is a trash can made by Rubermaid that can be locked at the top (a larg snake bag will work to if you are more comfertable with that).
--- A broom handel is a handy thing to have kicking around your snake room.

Now dont jump in a try to be hero your partner must know what you are planing at all times and if they seem to not be gifted with telapetick powers thats ok! A constant link of comunication must be open.

So now your best tool and #1 life line is that snake hook. If there is a snake that needs two ppl to control it there should be 2 hooks in your snake room at ALL times. You can regain control of your animal while keeping a safe distance with these tools.

Once you are ready to start you need to open the trash can and put it on it's side (or lay out your snake bag on the floor) now if you have the proper equipment you can easaly center the snakes head with you and your parteners HOOKS and from there guide the snake into the trash can once you can do that you can close and lock it. Now NEVER EVER put the can standing up you it can kill your snake if you keep it like that too long it will crush it self with it's own wight .

Now just lift the can and place it on it's side in the cage and remove the cover, if needed use the cover as a shield to protect your face let the snake come out on its own and remove the can when it dose caus it has just sufferd a realy high stress level and may need to hide in a closed in area.

(this is if you choose to use the bag)

Place the bag on the floor and take a hook in one hand and a set of tongs in the other now you and your partner need to have thos pieces of equitment.

Guide the snake in the center of you with the hooks and both of you WITH the tongs grab hold of a side of the bag and gently pull it over the snakes head. Take your broom handel or just the back end of the hook and lay it gently in the back of the neck to pin the snakes head in place. Make shour your patner is ready to take control of the body or else you will have a fight on your hands that you can not win on your own. Once that is done keep the bag over the head transport tha snake to it's cage place the whole body in and then guide the baged head into the cage and remove the bag with a pair of thong and there you go your snake is home.

[ReptiZone]

I did not want to stuff al my ideas ind one post it would have ben to long BTW it was like 4:50am when I started that post it is now 6:05am any way back to more important matters

I agree with Chondro that most times it is out of defense but some snakes are snappier then others

It is nice to know ppl agree with my thaughts and opinions.

And yes there are some snakes that are snappier then others just like we have a tolerence level for a bunch of stuff our boss, kids, husband, wife, in-laws...
But some off us have higher tolerence levels like some ppl have (a short fuse) we say our snakes have passive and active deffences well Humans are passive agressif or active agressif

passive deffence= to deffend your self with out any violent aproch
Royal python (balling) milk snake(mimicing) hog nose (playing dead)

active deffence= to deffend your self with the nasasery force
reticulated python (mock striking and realing biteing you) red spiting cobra ( do i need to say what is dose) well any way a active deffence is hard to miss

passive agresif= not to dwell on the present caus you will get you revenge EVENTUALY.

active agressif= telling the person off and start to swing for the touch of death(hehehe)

All creaturse are classified in one of thos catagorys we humas are just so special (*caugh*not *caugh*) that we feal the need to name it somthin else cause of psycological science.

We are all born with some kind of caracteristics that stay with us our whole life. But just caus me and my sister are the same species (family) same parents we are totaly difrent in temperment and the thing we like are not all the same either.

So in other words you may have 10 rocks or retics but they all have diffrent requierments diffrent dispositions all the way down to where 9/10 of you retics will eat jumbo white rats one may only eat avrege black rats it can be that minute of a diffrence or and can be as bad as having the snappiest royal python out of a cluch of 10 from a mother that hase never produced snappie babys.

Like my Dad would say''it's the way I built I can't help it dame it''

any way it was fun to type all this I hope it was worth it.

[RachelS.]

That's was a GREAT post!!! I agree, man... good job!!

[ReptiZone]

Thank you I had to think hard enuf that I need an advil now.LOL
it's not easy explaning somthing that comes naturaly but I did the best I could.

[jpaulson]

Two points for me to touch on:
1. Do snakes have feelings? I, being the dictionary "buff" I am, I looked up "feeling" with encarta. It listed about 10 different ways that the word is defined as; only 2 of them mentioned anything about emotion of affection. Those 2 where listed as #6 and #7--anyone familiar with a dictionary knows that the most COMMON usages of a word are listed in numerical order--my point is that, once again, feelings do not have to automatically mean showing love, hate, etc. Reacting to touch is feeling. Somewhere in this thread we got off on this tangent about feeling, but I think it has little to do with it, except personal opinion. Do any of us REALLY know if snakes, or anything for that matter, does or does not have feelings? In the example of snakes, we do not know what transpires in a snakes mind--therefore we cannot completely understand how a snake thinks, or how they may or may not show feelings. For the sake of argument, let me throw this out at you. What if a snake shows affection simply by NOT biting you? Without understanding a snakes brain, we cannot know for sure if it is true or not. We define affection and feelings in direct relation to how we associate with it--hugs, kisses, cuddling, etc. Cats show affection by catching a mouse, and many times, leaving it in your doorway or in your shoes. :) When I accquired my adult borneo, I noticed that if I put him on the table, with all my family around looking at him, he went directly to my 8 year old daughter and crawled up and around her neck. Curious, I repeated this "test" many more times, using different people, different times, and different orders around the table. Each time, he went to her. She does not hold him any more than anyone else, she does not even get involved at feeding time or cage cleaning time. In my opinion, therefore, I believe snakes DO have feelings, and possibly even affection. My point is, that NO ONE CAN EVER KNOW completely without being inside a snakes mind.

2. Snake Lady, as much as I enjoy your debates as well, I must comment on something you said earlier in a post. You said that "Second, I think that the snake in general becomes "aggressive"(like you people tend to say although I do not like the use of the word), when and only when the person that owns them doesn't do a good job of keeping and handling them." That may be the case in some, but not all in general. If you were to house a baby CB ARP and a baby CB BP, and handle niether of them for a year, you WILL get bit by the ARP. You MIGHT by the BP. Again, one species is known to be more "aggressive" than the other. That was my point to start with.

There ya go, Snake Lady, you wanted a reply, and I gave you one. :)

Thanks for listening and lets not forget to keep this from becoming a flame.

[V.hb]

Agreed, keep this from becoming a flame.

[Snake Lady]

1. Do snakes have feelings? I, being the dictionary "buff" I am, I looked up "feeling" with encarta. It listed about 10 different ways that the word is defined as; only 2 of them mentioned anything about emotion of affection. Those 2 where listed as #6 and #7--anyone familiar with a dictionary knows that the most COMMON usages of a word are listed in numerical order--my point is that, once again, feelings do not have to automatically mean showing love, hate, etc. Reacting to touch is feeling. Somewhere in this thread we got off on this tangent about feeling, but I think it has little to do with it, except personal opinion. Do any of us REALLY know if snakes, or anything for that matter, does or does not have feelings? In the example of snakes, we do not know what transpires in a snakes mind--therefore we cannot completely understand how a snake thinks, or how they may or may not show feelings. For the sake of argument, let me throw this out at you. What if a snake shows affection simply by NOT biting you? Without understanding a snakes brain, we cannot know for sure if it is true or not. We define affection and feelings in direct relation to how we associate with it--hugs, kisses, cuddling, etc. Cats show affection by catching a mouse, and many times, leaving it in your doorway or in your shoes. When I accquired my adult borneo, I noticed that if I put him on the table, with all my family around looking at him, he went directly to my 8 year old daughter and crawled up and around her neck. Curious, I repeated this "test" many more times, using different people, different times, and different orders around the table. Each time, he went to her. She does not hold him any more than anyone else, she does not even get involved at feeding time or cage cleaning time. In my opinion, therefore, I believe snakes DO have feelings, and possibly even affection. My point is, that NO ONE CAN EVER KNOW completely without being inside a snakes mind.

Very good argument and point very well taken. Its really based on different peoples opinions and you say that they do have feelings and thats fine. I on the other hand..well you already know my point of view..i dont feel like re-typing it all for nothing! LOL we get ourselves already!

Snake Lady, as much as I enjoy your debates as well, I must comment on something you said earlier in a post. You said that "Second, I think that the snake in general becomes "aggressive"(like you people tend to say although I do not like the use of the word), when and only when the person that owns them doesn't do a good job of keeping and handling them." That may be the case in some, but not all in general. If you were to house a baby CB ARP and a baby CB BP, and handle niether of them for a year, you WILL get bit by the ARP. You MIGHT by the BP. Again, one species is known to be more "aggressive" than the other. That was my point to start with.

My opinion on that is that if you put a ball python in a cage for a year without touching him and you put a rock python in his cage for a year. I think that its not a very good comparison because the rock python has a more active defense(bites) whereas the ball python has a passive defense(goes into a ball). So of course you might get bitten by the rock instead of the ball. BUT if you compare a rock and a retic..then you have a good question going! They have the same line of defense(active).

:)Snake Lady:)

[V.hb]

[i]I am not calling anyone out I honestly want to know how this fits into your debate.- Tim [/B]

Hey, i honestly feel that its genetics. each snake will react differently. Some dogs are more high-strung than others, iam sure snakes can be the same way. This is just my 'guess'.
good question though.

[ReptiZone]

Hey, i honestly feel that its genetics. each snake will react differently

Well you are listening to a few things I was saying

Like my Dad would say''it's the way I built I can't help it dame it''

You really need to learn to debate with your mind and not with your anger. Have you not noticed that me, snakelady, jpaulson we have addmited each others good points and then quoted each other and present our argument or points.this is something you need to start to do. When you are not capable of proving your point all you can do is admit your defeat.

And you really need to stop editing your whole post to something new cause you started to say we are imposible to debate with and now it was changed to.

Agreed, keep this from becoming a flame.

So plz unless you can debate and admit when you are wrong dont reply and if you do reply dont keep changing your response After some one posted cause the members from ssnakess.com are not idiots just cause they dont respond dosent mean that they dont read what you said.

and if you're gonna go abouts insulting me about the way I do things at least have the guts to leave the post there for the rest to see you never know you might have some one that does not like me either and he/she may try to back up your points if you have some valid ones (now if it was a moderator that removed the post thank you and if so just edit what I said so that way we will understand each other) anyway I need to get to my debate with jpaulson and I do not entend to have to defend myself like this again.

I just edited my post for spelling mistakes..thats what your supposed to do with the edit option. :)

[jpaulson]

Well spoken, chondro.

DEBATE:
1. Talk or argue about something: to talk about something at length and in detail especially as part of a formal exchange of opinion.
2. Think about something: to ponder something carefully

I, myself, do not post here or on any site just to hear myself talk, to increase my post count, or to get stars. I post here to see and hear others opinions in a RESPECTFUL manner and to share my knowledge, and to gain others' knowledge.

V.hb, I too saw that you COMPLETELY changed your post. You were the one starting to turn this into a flame, then to change it to "Agreed, lets not turn this into a flame"?

You, nor anyone else, will EVER see me edit a post. I check my spelling (usually) before I submit, and that should be the only reason to use the edit function. If I make a post that gets attacked or belittled or whatever, so be it. It is just another notch in my constant learning cycle. All that anyone knows of members here is by the words that they type--so I make a point to "ponder carefully" what it is that I type. I respect others, and in return, hope that I EARN theirs. Above all else, I like to see others' replies, and to possibly see things from a different angle.

So, please, if you or anyone wants to participate in these forums, do so out of respect to others, and keep it civil. The day that this site is taken over by flames is the day that I leave.

[V.hb]

my apologies if it was offending, however i edited my posts too add something etc, As i really do not care either if my post count is high or low. My one post that said agreed lets not flame, initially was a post that I felt was unnessecary, and since I cannot remove it, i simply said that, and then carried on the conversation which iam now finished with as my point was taken out of context, which usually happens on the internet as things don't always appear as they seem.

[Turtle Matt]

I dont see how V.hb was offending anyone at all...Honestly,I dont understand why he's wasting his time debating with some of you,from what Ive seen. It's funny how such a simple post can result in somewhat of a war. Lets just wrap it all up and say a snake will do what it needs to survive.
Matt

[ReptiZone]

Now that we clear'd that up we can getback to our debat.

Do snakes have feelings?
by jpaulson
Feelings does not nessecarily mean affection
by V.hb
affection is a type of of emotion!
by V.hb
PS Snakes do have feelings,
By V.hb.
humans show many of these, snakes dont!
by v.hb
Okay..as for the snakes having feelings..you can believe that all you want. Its really nice and cute if you think your ball python has feelings and he loves you because hes never bitten you..thats okay. But always remember deep down that they really dont have feelings and if they have a bad day one day..they could bite you.
by snake lady
so lets get this straight:
FEALINGS=love, hate,sadnes,joy,anger......
LOVE=affection
EFFECTION= tendernes,attachement
by chondro python

I am sorry but I needed to recap every thing so I can make sence with everything.

I will be the first to say that this debat was realy fun but it was but it was based only on pure theory and no scientafic reserch can back either side up. but both sides expresed great points and reserched documents any way I am ready to close this debat on the grounds that neither side can realy prove contrary of the other.

[ReptiZone]

I dont see how V.hb was offending anyone at all...Honestly,I dont understand why he's wasting his time debating with some of you,from what Ive seen. It's funny how such a simple post can result in somewhat of a war.

I will tel you why you dont understand why I was offended it is be cause V.hb edited all is insulting posts and now you could not find them if you wanted to but that doss not change that fact that he said what he said.

Any way it is done and over with and I will forget about it but dont let me catch him doing that again caus I will save all his replys and expos them and send a copy the the adinastration
Like I said if I am wrong I am wrong and I will fess up to it but dont post somthing and remove it so ppl like Turtle Matt can't see why we are mad at you ( in a general sence)

[jpaulson]

After receiving a PM from V.hb, he claimed that the reason he edited his post was because he understood how it could of caused a flame, and he chose to change it to prevent that. I commend hom for that. All I would recommend is to really think about what you are going to post before you click that submit button. I always do.

Sadly to say, the debate is over. i agree with Chondro, that neither side can be proved, so it's best to let it stop before it does turn into a flame. For all those that participated, thank you for your input and opinions. It really made me understand some things, and helped me to see the other viewpoints that were offered.