tell me you security tips... [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

ReptiZone

04-13-03, 08:10 PM

Well if the snake bites your hand on the flesh lets say, and you pull away from his teeth, you risk pulling out teeth. So, if your wearing gloves and the snake bites the gloves and the snake tries to remove itself and the teeth stay stuck in the gloves..they are still gonna pull and that leads to them pulling out some teeth. Now, because you were wearing gloves and the several different bacterias that are related to normal working gloves (or whatever gloves your company uses) finds its way into the wounds that were created after the teeth were pulled out. This leads to mouth rot and other related diseases. As for your question, i have worked with retics, rock pythons and anacondas. I agree that theyre nothing at all like burms but i said it many times before, it is not a question of ''can I (you) handle a large snake?'' it is '' What is the proper procedures to follow?'' I have worked with large white throat monitors, nile monitors, and crocodile monitors and ive done it all with just a t-shirt and thats it.

All im saying is there is a way to handle any animal safely without gloves that could injure them. For example, hooks(snake), different methods(monitors), ropes,burlap and ducktape(crocodilians) ect.

Steeve B

04-14-03, 04:15 AM

That’s exactly the reason for this tread to find better ways, pleas tell me a better way to handle full grown and medium sebas, obviously you have the experience show me!

All I have seen so far is peoples that can’t handle these because they are too nasty, others trying to restrain them and the snakes ended up dislocated, others being bitten badly, and an occasional docile specimen.

Aim very open to good tips, unfortunately I think on this tread some have given unfounded advising, I don’t think comparing any of my sebas to other snake species and telling me I shod not where gloves because they can damage there teeth is sound advice. In years of working with snakes the only broken tooth IV seen was on prey, tongs and hooks. If you really think what your telling me is good then show me! Aim not asking about the crocs or anything just Seba, to me they are my only concern the rest is child play.

Steeve B

04-14-03, 05:05 AM

Oh by the way a slashing bite is when a snake lounges at you bite and pulls back to its initial position, it doesn’t bite and cling on to you, it happens in a flash and you’re left with open wounds. And in my case it’s the same as if you who’d of hit me with a machete, I will show you guy’s next herp show

mk-ultra

04-14-03, 10:36 AM

i have to agree with steeve on the glove i use glove to handle aggressive snakes but i use them to protect them and me at the same time my snakes never bite when i have gloves on ( glove that dont conduct heat ) but if i show my hands to them gee im in for some piercing ... so i think that its more precautious since when the animals see your hot skin he goes for it with the glove you drop the chance of a snake bite a lot since the snake sees less heat coming from you arms or hands thats my opinion

Scales Zoo

04-14-03, 10:57 AM

SCALES Zoo keeps a rock python that cannot be handled. We have become very clever in capture and restraint of this particular serpent. We use a box with a hole cut in the side no larger than the girth of the snake, so she has to go completely into the box in order to come out, unless she backs out. She happens to like the confines of the catch box, her record length of stay in the box is 22 days, during which time she dragged 2 dead rabbits into the box with her. We had tried to lure her out after a week so we could remove the box, and we found drag marks across the floor into the box. When we clean the cage, we box her, and remove the box to a secure container, then replace the box and turn out the lights so she will come out.
We have a retic, however that is not falling for the box trick.

Tongs and hooks are always used when dealing with the snakes, and gloves are handy with the monitors, as the claws can do a nasty number on the flesh.

Beejay

04-14-03, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Steeve B
What kind of reply is this, why don’t you ask or say something pertinent like, why who’d you use these Steeve, what’s the benefits, dos it really help?
We routinely handle 20 adult sebas and suluwaisi retics, none of them bites, don’t you think we may know something .

LOL I don't know what happened to the rest of my reply.

Oh well.

I forget what I had intended to ask. Thanks for judging my reply so fast though!

Bj

ReptiZone

04-14-03, 12:46 PM

first off I will do my best to tell you what to do to handel it but it's realy a mater of trial and error and you need to see a person do it to realy understand cause when you are watching you can see what that person dose when a caputre go sour. first of dealing with a nasty sebea in its cage is crazy. first thing first make shour you have clean flore space then you take your hook and slowly work the tail end towards you then grasp it and gently pull leave the hook realy close to the undre belly and right when you think it is right (normaly 1/2 a foot from the head) or what ever you are comfertable with then use the hook like you would use your hand to cup under his belly and lift the snake up and out of the cage now if it becomes to wild and cant be controled then you place it on the flore alwas hold the tail and when I say tail I mean right b4 the cloaca. then you can pin the head you should alwas have a partener in the room with you that way if you pin the snake your partner can grabthe hook and you can pick it up or vic versa the rest of the procedure is just comen sence you will know what to do from here.

V.hb

04-14-03, 02:36 PM

Id like to add a few things too this thread. As myself and my girlfriend both keep and have dealt with many giant pythons as well as large monitor lizards I cannot personally see WHY you wouldn't wear gloves. First off we both wear gloves for anything that can potentially hurt either one of us, espeacially monitors! Not wearing gloves is irresponsible. Espeacially if you are putting your animals into the hands of others. IE you run a store.

The issue of removing teeth is incredibly stupid. If you are bitten by any animal that uses a large amount of force they will lose teeth even if you aren't wearing gloves. It is all in your over-all reaction to when you are bitten, experts like Steve and others who wear gloves are prepared to be bitten, they do not trust the animal 100% as anyone shouldn't. It is just SMART.

Obviously anyone in Steves position (or in any zoo) is going to have multiple pairs of gloves. They do not harbor bacteria if you are using one pair per animal as opose to one pair per 100 animals. Iam also sure anyone purchasing livestock as expensive as steeve does they are going to keep the equipment clean and free of threatening bacteria.

On top of everything, if you own a store, you need to cover yourself. Insurance would nail you hardcore if you didn't wear gloves. Personal keepers can gleem in their own scars and think it's cool to be bitten, but people running stores must protect their employees. Being sued isnt very fun.

Steeves thread was completely justified, he is asking to better everyones situation, he didnt make this thread to bring anyones practices down. We agree 100% with Steeve

This thread is a very good topic, and all steeve is doing is trying to educate people upon his own experiences. he wasnt doing this to have his ideas attacked. Everyone has their own methods, lets compare them peacefully without the close minded conclusions.

Sorry had to add something, Don't take any offence to my post, iam not meaning to bash anybody, from the way ive read it everyone jumped to conclusions without asking questions to get more of the story.

ReptiZone

04-14-03, 03:03 PM

first off I will do my best to tell you what to do to handel it but it's realy a mater of trial and error and you need to see a person do it to realy understand cause when you are watching you can see what that person dose when a caputre go sour.
v.hb I dont know if you read the 2nd page put it is well stated that I would do my BEST to tell.

first of dealing with a nasty sebea in its cage is crazy

I said right there that is was not an easy snake to work with.

then you take your hook and slowly work the tail end towards you then grasp it and gently pull leave the hook realy close to the undre belly and right when you think it is right (normaly 1/2 a foot from the head) or what ever you are comfertable with then use the hook like you would use your hand to cup under his belly and lift the snake up and out of the cage now if it becomes to wild and cant be controled then you place it on the flore alwas hold the tail and when I say tail I mean right b4 the cloaca. then you can pin the head you should alwas have a partener in the room with you that way if you pin the snake your partner can grabthe hook and you can pick it up or vic versa.

plz tell me how telling some one to do things gently and to have a partner in the room with him or her is living on the wild side.

As for the teeth thing do some reserch and you will find out 1 of the causes of mouth rot is riping teeth out by accident and then bacteria sets in, man you could have CLEAN hand if a snake bites you on your flesh there is a risk for mouth rot the key is to keep the head away away from things it could bit ex.. hands, legs, face so on and so on

it would by cool if you took the time to learn how to use a python hook that way you could show the rest of the staff how

I was not atacking his methods I was stating a fact. I find it more profecinal if I walk into a shop and ppl are using hooks for there animals.

I dont think a person would slap on a pair of working gloves for a viper of any sort all thow you will find ppl that do do that it dose not mean it is the right way to do things. If ppl can handel hots with hooks then we can handel any snake with hooks that is why they come in all shapes and sizes from neonate hooks to 3'' wide python hooks
any way I said my piece do what you want with it

Steeve B

04-14-03, 03:07 PM

Beejay I dint judge you my friend but only your reply as I feel you have more to give.

The best advising I got so far is the hide box trick, witch I do use quit often or use to, there’s a draw back to this method, the problem reside in the snake not being conditioned to handling, then when you really need to handle to separate female from clutch or en eye cap or any other mandatory chores, it becomes dangerous.
This is why we handle them often and freely, they don’t seem to adjust to any kind of restraining and pining any animal 14+ feet is next to impossible at least without hurting them, anyone with experience knows these snakes are not easy to manipulate, this is why I asked this forum for advising, and I appreciate every reply good or bad as I feel theirs always something to learn from everyone. Kind regards

Ps. we use glove to clean cages and handle, obviously we wash them often

Steeve B

04-14-03, 03:53 PM

Ok guys now you can have a good laugh on me, this guy has never handled any snakes before he came working with me, many peoples came to me with lots of experience on there hands, when asked if they who’d work with glove and obey to a strict protocol they all said Steeve trust me I don’t need all these precaution.
Even my rodent guy must where glove at all time, not only to protect him but the rodents also, what about blood contamination; this is why protocol is needed.
We all know these cb and raised burms really don’t need all these protective measure, but when like this fellow you handle 100s of reptiles daily you will get an occasional berm bite or monitor clawing, buy obeying to these you rule out most of the possible accidents, making work with these animals much more enjoyable.
This guy for the last 2 years never even experienced a scratch, if I who’d go snake hunting in the jungle of PNG this guy I who’d trust with any snake, he has more snake, monitors, crocodiles handling experience in 2 years then most keepers in a life time, yet here you see him gloves and sleeves.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/507/959ap14-001-med.jpg

nhherp

04-14-03, 11:48 PM

Been reading the post and decided to chime in.
My best safety tips are the following.

1--A CAGE divider. Not a trap box, but a divider that allows you to cut off an entire half of a cage. I utilize this on my big Sulawesi, the female being 20+ , the male being approx 15-16. They are true WC specimens that I have been working with for 5 years, they females cage is 14 ft long so it can accomadate the male during breeding(not yet successful). I gave up on trying to handle them at 14ft. Just to much headache and hassle, trying dealing with 2 large and grumpy snakes at the same time in the same cage!. No need to stress the snake/s or myself to clean a cage, if she would take on a breeding I really wouldn't worry about her being conditioned to human touch. it never existed, and I tried. Also I am the only one to work with these guys hands on, I have friends who are around during such if I need them, but the sulawesis I could not make some one elses duty even if I had that option. Somethings just work that way. Do not allow others to work with something that is a potential lawsuit factor, you know the risk minimalize it to the upmost if you need to.

2--Hot water access. In case you get a bite that does not let go. It has never failed me, and has worked not only on snakes but crocodilians and monitors as well. Dump hot water(not scalding, your not trying to hurt the snake or yourself) on the mouth. Simple hot water from the tap like you would wash your hands good with usually works.

As far as gloves go. I dont use them or care for them. To much is sacrificied in handling ability using welding gloves. yeah they are nice on the little guys, but once it gets size you soon lose the ability of good control. The leather is to slick on the scales to have control of a large snake, not to mention my big ones would pierce them with a bite, and could slash them open is they choose to. My feeling is to control them and where the head is long before worrying about what a bite will do is much safer aspect of husbandry. .
I have a friend who is a professional mover, so he cannot have scabs to tear open and bleed on customers belongings should he get bitten. He keeps retics, and only uses gloves for the intial entrance and pickup of the snake, then he shakes them off in order to maintain control of the snake while moving to where ever. He again ,as with myself ,feels it to be safer to be able to have control of the animal and its head direction, then sacrifice manipulation ability for bite safety, and his full time job depends on it.
If gloves make you feel safer, then use them. It really doesnt matter, so long as your animals are well cared for then its not hurting anyone. Some may argue the snake, which I can see, but I have also had teeth left in my body from bites. I guess one may suggest that some welding gloves have a flame retardent powder between the layers and this may be bad for the animal, but i dont know for sure, I just seem to remember hearing it at one time, and it kinda makes sense.
I just posted my thoughts as a different perspective you may choose to consider or not.
Notah

ReptiZone

04-15-03, 09:13 AM

verry well said I realy like the divider Idea fore the life of me I cant belive it never crosed my mind and I see a bunch of them on the netand I supose if you use the gloves in that maner that if I had my own store I would let it slide if I saw my employes using them any way thanks for posting I know I learnd a bunch of stuff from this thread and a lot of difrent point of views.

Scales Zoo

04-16-03, 10:05 PM

We have thought about dividers for some of the cages - but the way the cages are currently set up, does not allow for easy divider addtions.

The next best thing is the box, for the snakes that would use a box.

We have had a 22' sulawesi that had been wild caught many years ago. We would have loved a divider - as he did not like a box.

We tried a few clever things - but he was very smart, and would learn each trick. We had a few instances where we were forced to handle the snake - and even with 3 very strong people - the snake was pretty much in control.

I also really like the python hook for helping out with the small chores. I used to use it to move the Afrock, but after it got over 8' long - I knew that it would be just a matter of time until something accidental happened with using the hook.

I would love to get a pair of those big gloves. If not for the big snakes, it would make dealing with the large monitors and caimens a lot more convenient.

Ryan

Steeve B

04-17-03, 03:31 AM

When I posted this tread I was hoping for new idea, don’t get me wrong I appreciate all my exchange on this forum but pleas don’t be offended by me, I believe the best that anyone has offer only comes when you say what you think, and aim no exception to this, this is what I think.

1 the hot water is very stressful on any animal, as it’s perceived as there ultimate natural enemy FIRE, I agree it’s efficient and admit to have used it on many occasions.
2 the hide box and the divider both of these are routinely used with excellent success, unfortunately both yields the exact same results, a snake not conditioned to handling witch translate into a very dangerous snake.
3 it was said on this tread gloves may be contaminated in a number of different ways, from bites, faeces, fire retardant, also they are slippery when manipulating some slick snakes.

Aim not saying any of what have been suggested isn’t good, aim only offering alternative and different approach to handling, only you can judge if it may improve your ways.

1 we handle hatchlings with hook until they are 6 feet, then we only handle them with glove, theirs always a few snakes that are nippy, as in nature snakes learn not to strike at many preys because of bad taste, so we use this to our advantage, we press grape fruit peels all over our gloves rarely do a snake bite twice on these gloves, we also produce spray bottle pocket size of the above, these are part of the material we always have on hand shod we need to brake a snake fight or monitor, we never hade to use it in case of accidental bite but no dough it will work.
2 we think its much safer to work with adult snake that routinely get handled, at first my idea was to manipulate the less possible obviously thinking this was the safest way to go, but now the large snake we never handled for safety are also the most dangerous we have, they are now outgrown buy new babies kept on the handling schedule easy to handle and quit safer for everyone here.
3 the glove we use are single layer material none toxic, we wash them often in washer, then we occasionally apply silicon spray in the palm for better grip, but as I said Seba and Suluweisi don’t adjust well to being restrained, its much easier to let them glide thru your hands.

It was also stated to never let others handle potentially dangerous animals, I agree to this totally, not only is it dangerous but irresponsible as well, however I operate a snakes farm, not a pet shop or a zoo, my employees are trained and paid to work with dangerous animals, as in any career risk must be minimal and safety optimised.
I particularly enjoy this forum, especially the peoples in it, hopefully you will not perceive me as being arrogant and stubborn, aim not narrow minded a bit, on this forum I seek improvement not just a deferent way to an already existing method, this why I really enjoy when peoples give there idea, the more the merrier.
Kind regards

reptilesalonica

04-20-03, 03:04 PM

In my oppinion gloves are safe for people that are close to herps but in the other hand, knowing you or anyone that he/she are safe maybe won't pay attention on how they move their hands in front of snake's mouth. The result is that occasionaly a snake may bite that fast moving hand and that will scare off in the first place, customers that don't know much about snakes and they see someone with gloves "trying to tame the beast". These people will never again be in a room where a snake is. I think that gloves are necessary for large lizards. For snakes bigger than 2,5 meters must handled with more than one person. The key is to teach others how they must handle the snakes pointing to your customers how they must handle the snakes. We must try teach people and not scare them. Ending, i think handling snakes with gloves is a negative image for the people that don't know about herps whom may be future hobbyists.
~Greg~

nhherp

04-20-03, 03:06 PM

Good points with the covering of head, however they will strike and bite if they encounter something in the process, with a bag over the head. Especially those with heat sensing pits, seem more prone to do this. I have seen both retics and scrubs do this before, though I will admit it is not the norm, and you are for the most part correct.

ReptiZone

04-20-03, 04:47 PM

So ya come a cross a sabae that dosen't feel in top condition physicly, hungry, strested out from a trip of some sort.

Any of these can lead to a difficult disposition. The only thing I can say is if it is safe to do so leave it alone and go and approch it later after it calmes down a bit. If you can not leave it the room to rest.

You AND your PARTENER (who should be with in arms reach at all times) will need to stand your ground and be ready to do your job as herpers.

This is a situation that should be avoided at all cost but a herper that choses to keep large reptile(snakes) should be ready for and if posible train for it every once and a while.

First off they sell equipment to regain control of a situation like this:

---there are snake hooks made for larg pythons (retic's, burm's rock's and scrubs).
---there is also realy long forceps( large tongs).
---and there is a trash can made by Rubermaid that can be locked at the top (a larg snake bag will work to if you are more comfertable with that).
--- A broom handel is a handy thing to have kicking around your snake room.

Now dont jump in a try to be hero your partner must know what you are planing at all times and if they seem to not be gifted with telapetick powers thats ok! A constant link of comunication must be open.

So now your best tool and #1 life line is that snake hook. If there is a snake that needs two ppl to control it there should be 2 hooks in your snake room at ALL times. You can regain control of your animal while keeping a safe distance with these tools.

Once you are ready to start you need to open the trash can and put it on it's side (or lay out your snake bag on the floor) now if you have the proper equipment you can easaly center the snakes head with you and your parteners HOOKS and from there guide the snake into the trash can once you can do that you can close and lock it. Now NEVER EVER put the can standing up it can kill your snake if you keep it like that too long it will crush it self with it's own wight .

Now just lift the can and place it on it's side in the cage and remove the cover, if needed use the cover as a shield to protect your face let the snake come out on its own and remove the can when it dose caus it has just sufferd a realy high stress level and may need to hide in a closed in area.

(this is if you choose to use the bag)

Place the bag on the floor and take a hook in one hand and a set of tongs in the other now you and your partner need to have thos pieces of equitment.

Guide the snake in the center of you with the hooks and both of you WITH the tongs grab hold of a side of the bag and gently pull it over the snakes head. Take your broom handel or just the back end of the hook and lay it gently in the back of the neck to pin the snakes head in place. Make shour your patner is ready to take control of the body or else you will have a fight on your hands that you can not win on your own. Once that is done keep the bag over the head transport tha snake to it's cage place the whole body in and then guide the baged head into the cage and remove the bag with a pair of thong and there you go your sanke is home.

I just copied and pasted a post I hade made in another thread put I figured you might like to try these method.

Steeve B

04-20-03, 07:06 PM

Thanks for your post but every thing you mention is what we use to do back in the 80s, we now have considerably improved in regards to handling techniques.
I have read all your post on this tread, and I think you don’t have any or little Seba and Suluweisi experience, otherwise you who’d know large aggressive adult are back up and lounge artist, and no mater how many hooks you have there not going in the trash can, especially a few hours after egg deposition, I think you missed my point entirely, maybe you focused on my gloves too much lol. I truly hope you and others have learned something with this tread, I know I did.
Aim very impressed by the civility of discussion on this forum, way to go guys.
Kind regards

Snake Lady

04-20-03, 08:32 PM

okay...first of all i think chondro gave some good tips on handling a rock pythons and suluweisi..

however I operate a snakes farm, not a pet shop or a zoo

Well id think that since you run a '' Snake Farm'', and not a "pet store or zoo" (like you said).. Why would you ask now for peoples advice..shouldnt you know how to handle these animals before you even start running a business such as this??..so nothing gets out of hand? You also say that your staff is trained..may i ask by who they are trained? cause if its by you and you dont know what your doing..then how do you expect them to know?? hehe

but anyways..At christmas i went with him(chondro) to a zoo in NB and his friend(the zoo keeper) had just received a rock python from the SPCA saying it was vicious and everything..he asked chondro to take a look at it and within two hours we took the pic with him that he has in his gallery.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/showgallery.php?thumb=1&stype=2&si=chondro%20python&cat=500&sort=1&ppuser=1410

I went to that zoo and there are all kinds of species there. There are retics and rock pythons and everything and chondro is the one who handled everything and were just talking snakes but he handled the monitors and the crocodillians. Anyways, all the time i was there and when i go to other well known pet stores in montreal..they all handled them the same way as he described..maybe they are all stuck in the 80's but it seems like a pretty good way to me! ( to this day i still havent seen him get bitten and hes handled some pretty nasty things!)

Well overall i find it kinda ODD that you ask for help (peoples opinions) when you seem to tell yourself and everybody that you know whats going on these days with all the handling methods..since we havent quite evolved..is that it?

Thats the message i got throughout your post so..just thought id add my opinion. Plus chondro is the one of the only ones who took the time to actually explain all the way through so id think youd appreciate it somewhat.

P.S. African Rock Python = Python Sebae not Python Seba

If thats the little rock python that you guys are having soo much problems with..then your in for a rough ride!!

:)Snake Lady:)

V.hb

04-20-03, 11:21 PM

Why would you ask now for peoples advice..shouldnt you know how to handle these animals before you even start running a business such as this?
You also say that your staff is trained..may i ask by who they are trained?

I Dont know why i continue to read your posts as they are just garble in defence of your boyfriend. But obviously Steeve is trying to better his own knowledge, and compare it with others. That is the WHOLE point of this thread!!! Also, too help others.
As far as who trains his staff, who the hell are you to say that? Have you seen his animals? Obviously he knows what he's talking about. I personally use almost every method steeve has explained he uses. As I find they are the best methods, does this make me uneducated too?

cause if its by you and you dont know what your doing.
chondro is the one who handled everything and were just talking snakes but he handled the monitors and the crocodillians. Anyways, all the time i was there and when i go to other well known pet stores in montreal.

Well cudos to "chondro" Just a question, is he paying you too post this or what? you're his girlfriend! do you have any idea how stupid your constant "run to chondros defence" posts look? I can supply links too other posts he's made and got into arguements that you've had to dig him out of. Can he not explain things on his own? or must you come and insult others to make yourselves look better?? Myself, and my girlfriend have both been dealing with many of the reptiles in question, So in that case, does that make us experts like chondro? (if thats what you think of him) I personally love learning, and find Steeves threads the best way to do so.

P.S. African Rock Python = Python Sebae not Python Seba

Very mature, when in doubt lets point out spelling errors! Obviously steeve knows what a rock python is.

Its a shame a thread like this has gone this low.

Zoe

04-20-03, 11:39 PM

I found this thread very interesting to say the least (despite some posts which weren't the easiest to read :P)

I definitely agree with the gloves... If I were working with anything that could really hurt me I'd take every precaution possible (heck, I use a stick when my 5ft CRB is cranky ;)). And I don't believe that bacteria could be transmitted provided the gloves are kept clean, which I presume they are, if Steeve runs such a large operation.

And while I agree with Steeve, I am unsure why he would create such a post. Whether he's correct or not, I don't understand why he would post asking for others' opinions, then contradict them all.

V. hb, I thought a lot of that post was a little uncalled for... If she wants to defend her BF let her, maybe she shares his opinions. I don't think it warrants calling her stupid and swearing at her, and being sarcastic.

Anyway, some very good tips and tricks were posted here, and I will bookmark this post as very important!

Thanks
Zoe

V.hb

04-20-03, 11:46 PM

Zoe, Iam not going to argue with you. Where did I swear? Sarcasm yes. But it was called for, hes had a few threads come too a stupid end like this now, and has annoyed quite a few other members by just "bashing" their techniques as his are the best going. Sure, they probably work for him, however why is it justified to tell Steeve he has no idea what he's talking about? and he shouldnt be dealing with these animals? That's sarcastic, insulting and plain stupid.

I'am just reinforcing facts, nothing more.
Thanks for your input.

Zoe

04-20-03, 11:53 PM

I don't wish to argue either, I just don't think that was called for. It's one thing posting a stupid post, people just get disinterested in hearing from certain people eventually, but it's another to flame that post, which can do nothing but make things worse.

As far as who trains his staff, who the hell are you to say that?

Yes, I've noticed Steeve's posts often end in controversy. To be expected, I supposed, some people are just so stubborn when it comes to their methods, which is unforunate. Being stubborn and ignorant helps no one and hurts only the reptiles.

Hopefully people will learn to be much more open minded, and to be civil when they disagree.

Zoe

V.hb

04-20-03, 11:55 PM

Agreed, so understand why I posted the way I did.
:)

Zoe

04-21-03, 12:00 AM

Oh yes, I DEFINITELY understand! I'm sure most of us have had to make an effort to hold our tongues and not point out frustrating things other people do.

:]
Zoe

ReptiZone

04-21-03, 01:44 AM

Well looks like snake lady is not the preffered person on this thread now lets get one thing strait I dont pay nobody anything to stand up for me and I don't expect every one to agree with what i say.

now Snake lady has ben in this hoby for 5 1/2 monts now and she has alot to learn but she admiers me not because she is my G/F but because I thaught her a bunch off stuff about this hobby animal names, latin names basic care and so on. Any way she has absorbed a lot in just a short amount of time she has learned more in 5 1/2 then most ppl would learn in a year all this to say she works with what she know and with what she see's.

she has seen me handel some of the most nervous animals you could imagine and walk away scrach free (not to say I have never ben biten or clawed) man I was biten by monitors, crocodilians
snakes galore B4 I could say I can handel anything with no problems. But it seams that every time I make that declaration somthing turnes bites me so now I just shut up. And deal with each animal as they come.

Now I can take what I dish out and I can dish out a lot of offencive stuff but never have I had to swear at some one to get my point a cross.

V.hb you say you can dish out a bunch of threads that I have goten into arguments, where my G/F had to bail me out .

I can supply links too other posts he's made and got into arguements that you've had to dig him out of.

suply all the links you want you might want to open up a new thread to fit them all in caus there is soooooooo many ( not my sarcasim.

P.S. African Rock Python = Python Sebae not Python Seba By snakel ady

Very mature, when in doubt lets point out spelling errors! Obviously steeve knows what a rock python is.
By V.hb
We routinely handle 20 adult sebas
By steeve B
Retics and sebas are not the easiest snakes to handle with hooks By steeve B

may I ask if any of you guys even keep suluwesi retics and Seba By steeve B

pleas tell me a better way to handle full grown and medium sebas, obviously you have the experience show me! By steeve B

He asked me to post somthing and yet presived to say I was stuck in the 80's.

I don’t think comparing any of my sebas to other snake By steeve B

If you really think what your telling me is good then show me! Aim not asking about the crocs or anything just Seba, to me they are my only concern By steeve B

that was 2 in the same thread. He wanted me to show him that is exactly what I did.

I have read all your post on this tread, and I think you don’t have any or little Seba and Suluweisi experience

Now dont get me wrong I make spelling mistakes all the time like you wouyld need a calculater just to count the mistakes in this post but to mis spell the rock python's latin name wrong throughout the whole thread is not a mistake it is a lack knowlege yes any body can say all the names but sit down and start wrighting them and you will get a head ach. And my G/f was trying to be informative but since her post was rather rash it came out in all the wrong ways.

V.hb I took the liberty to check your profile and it seems that you are born in 1981 and I was born in 1983 you can probebly see where I am going with this you see I realy dont know what kind of animals you have and how you care for them but you see you are only 2 years older then me and I can safely say that I have acomplished more in this hobby then you could imagine I was 10 and all I was doing is reading up on snakes and reptiles in general then when I was 17 i got my first snake at 17 I had my first burm at 19 I was the curator of a zoo dedicated to reptiles only dealing with meds and health reports not to forget record shets of animals you would only dream of seeing I was lucky enuf to share space with a cuben crocodile. and hand feed larg caimens and alligators so B4 you come and say I am a nobody and dont know what i am talking about think again I was put in situation where you would probebly piss your self in.

I warnd you if you trashed me or my G/f in any way I would expose you any way I checked out all 34 of your post witch are for the most part great reeding not alot of information posts but you have a clue about what YOU keep but it so hapends to be that 75% of them are all about varanids witch is cool to me I love monitors too but the only time you make your way into the giant python discutions is to bash me or to put my G/F down witch leads me to belive that you dont know $hit about what I work with or even where to start with routine moving of a gient snake of any sort safely.

Now Steeve B I am sorry my G/F attacked you like that I had no idea that she fealt that way about your post until I opend the computer and by then the damage was done.

My oppinions and my G/F 's are the same about this subject if you can not handel it with out gloves then leave it in the forest and dont even think about breeding it on a snake farm

As my own oppinion Snake Lady said it best if that is the sebae that is giving you a hard time quit will you are a head B4 some one dies in the future.

Giant constrictors are not monitors they are worse they eat monitors for a joke they will take you down and out and not think twise about it.

Steeve B

04-21-03, 02:33 AM

Pleas calm down guys, there’s really nothing to get upset about, first let me say I never asked for advice! And I sure never said I don’t know what aim doing,
If you go back to my post, I asked about your tricks hopping to improve my methods, this I can guaranty all of you theirs always room for improvement no mater how experienced you are. I also thanked condro for his time and effort, as I said I appreciate all of it, never the less I still don’t think he’s got extensive experience with these snakes, theirs no need to be sarcastic or defensive over this, as I am not aggressing any of you guys, all I say is what I think. Pleas read my post again before you reply you’re missing my point.

(You AND your PARTENER (who should be with in arms reach at all times)

Very good point and they are always 3 or 4 guys within reach.

(---there are snake hooks made for larg pythons (retic's, burm's rock's and scrubs).

forget this with any seba over 15 feet, you will loos control at one time or an other, your last resort will be to grasp it, and this we don’t want, having an angry snake not used to handling.

(---and there is a trash can made by Rubermaid that can be locked at the top (a larg snake bag will work to if you are more comfertable with that).

A better and safer way is to use a transit box especially made for fast take out action; you will learn the value of this once you’ve experience fire. A box for every animal is mandatory.

( A constant link of comunication must be open.)

Best advice you have given me! Really I keep saying this to my guys.

(Take your broom handel or just the back end of the hook and lay it gently in the back of the neck to pin the snakes head in place. Make shour your patner is ready to take control of the body or else you will have a fight on your hands that you can not win on your own.)

I can’t even think of pining down an adult, sure a 20+ foot burm no problem even a retic, 2 guys no problem! But these python no way. This is why we routinely handle them so they become more predictable, but try to restrain them or worst pin them down, and say by by to your efforts.
I think every thing you said applies mostly to burms and some retics, but not necessarily to big scrubs sebas makasar and Suluweisi, you may do very well with an occasional specimen, and most keepers may be willing to wait for there captive to cooperate with them, unfortunately we don’t, when its cleaning time its cleaning time for many, so out to a clean cage no fuss!
On a final note, I who’d like anyone hoe has experienced restraining an angry big seba to share there experience with us.

Steeve B

04-21-03, 02:41 AM

Condro aim not angry at you nor your girlfriend, I do think you have lots of experience with reptiles.
Pleas remember these are only words on paper and sometime they are not put out or interpreted the way they where meant to, now aim not going to blame my pour English.
But understand I am French and it doesn’t help me in these situations, so I ask you to be patient with me. Kind regard to both of you

Zoe

04-21-03, 02:43 AM

On a lighter note, I don't really think it's anyone's place to be pointing out spelling errors! I hate to ask this but is it possible to please, please spell at least decently and to PUNCTUATE? It was really hard to read some of these posts.

Steeve, I doubt you'll find many people here who have handled big, angry rock pythons! :D

Zoe

Oh, that wasn't aimed at you Steeve. You write very intelligently and the message gets through quite well.

ReptiZone

04-21-03, 02:56 AM

no That is cool steeve B if ever you want to PM me in french

Je suis parfaitement bilingue! hehehe

I understand french 100% and any one can slip up on a latin name I only pointed it out cause V.hb acted like it was the first time you mis spelt it and my G/F jumped on you for it she could have picked a beter time to corect you on it but she diden't

Steeve B

04-21-03, 03:02 AM

Something most peoples don’t know about me, I keep monitors as a hubby and only as such, I earn a living producing snakes and crocodilians.
Thanks for the nice comments.

Steeve B

04-21-03, 01:53 PM

Vic they are very VERY very strong! more so then a few man's
did you see steve irwin when he tryed to handle a 7feet seba, he said forget it aim not hanling this one, imagine a big one.

Steeve B

04-21-03, 02:07 PM

see the fist post on this tread, they are very nice snakes that nobudy whats to keep(bad reputation)

Zoe

04-21-03, 02:08 PM

Python Sebae is an African Rock Python. They are BIG, VICIOUS snakes.

Here are some pics:
http://members.aol.com/loxocemus/snakepics/rockpython.jpg (eating a gazelle)

http://209.233.186.60/AprilFolder/absolute/misc/bigsnakes/afrrock1.jpg

http://www.bushveld.co.za/pictures-of-reptiles/mouth.jpg (big teeth)

http://www.geocities.com/maggiemay_snake/CromCurl1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/maggiemay_snake/CromChair1.JPG

Steeve B

04-21-03, 02:41 PM

see the nice retic on your avatar, befor bob started breeding them nobody whanted these as well. most pepoles optaining seba alredy have a burm.

ReptiZone

04-21-03, 03:17 PM

A giant sanke collector will have a few burm a few retic B4 they get a sebae it is all part of adding a fresh specimen to a colection and to be able to say they have another giant snake from a difrent local and so on and so on...... i will be geting a pair of rocks after my pair of retics and my one burm and one anaconda those are snakes i have no intention in breeding...lol I would like to breed sebaes just caues I dont think there is a lot of ppl that do captive Breeding of them it has ben said that it is not an easy task.

Steeve B

04-21-03, 04:43 PM

this is a pet animal forum, and I respect this, I only keep monitors turtles frogs salamanders as pets, this is what I mostly share with pepoles on forums, as for giant pythons and crocodiles we farm them to supply other needs, I will not discuss on this forum.
in 20 years I never sold any for the pet trade, or only a few less then a dosen, but I had many demands.

Emily-Fisher

04-21-03, 04:50 PM

Why must you be so secure about owning a shop?!

Steeve B

04-21-03, 04:52 PM

one more thing aim not in favour of keeping large snakes as pets, aim also very evolved against the slathering of these animals in the wild, that’s why we farm them and try to work thing with CITES officials to improve the situation, as for keeping by private individual as pet, we fight for the right and freedom of choice, and hope these animals are kept responsibly.

Emily-Fisher

04-21-03, 04:54 PM

Thats really cool! Do you sell them afterwards?

Steeve B

04-21-03, 05:31 PM

IV devoted my life to animals and deforestation, aim sick mad about them! And seeing peoples on these forum sharing this passion is fulfilling for me, unfortunately there are peoples out there that simply shod not be allowed to keep animals, giant pythons are magnificent animals but I don’t need to see them at every corner, in fact only 1-2% of peoples shod keep them, those with true passion for them and willing to do what’s necessary for them. For years I was in my closet talking to nobody about my animals in fear to aggravate the situation about herpetoculture in this country, peoples don’t know this but aim directly the cause for the ownership ban of venomous and crocodilians in Quebec, I provided these animals to stupid peoples hoe took them out in public and created a commotion with them. One particular individual takes the cake, him alone took a 6 feet gator to a stripper club and tied his leash on a post outside, the police came the fire department came SPCA and news, believe it or nor the SPCA gave him the gator back saying it was in good health, then he retaliated when the news guy asked him for an interview, this idiot wanted to show of so bad, he made a back pack to hold the gator and drove his motorcycle all over Montréal for a photo session, no helmet no plat insurance or driver licence, again he made the morning news, he also lost a cobra in a 42 app building for elderly peoples ( apparently he separated and ask his mother to keep his snake), he called me only one month later to inform me. Unfortunately I witnessed many such horror stories, this why aim so concerned about safety and try to post good information.

ReptiZone

04-21-03, 06:20 PM

I would have worked on geting a regestration law pased insted of a ban all to gether but I am in no place to say what you did was wrong cause at the time of the disision making the government of quebec probebly wanted noting to do with puting money in towards such a pragram. So they went with the next best thing.

why do you raise crocodilians then do you sell at all to the public that shows resbonsability.

do you farm them for zoo's or for the worst reason farming them for the skin trade NOW there is somthing that should have ben banded decades ago.

I understand that by farming them you are preventing a decrease
in the wild but I would farm them so they can be returned but we cand quit do that cause it is to dangerous for the eco-system. any way just wanted to put some spice in that subject.

you are doing a great thing dont get me wrong I just feel that positev energy like that can be rerouted beter but I do understand with the laws and stuff like that it makes it hard to do any kind of progres.

Steeve B

04-21-03, 07:34 PM

I agree they could have voted for a permit system, but nobody opposed to the ban, eventually they will try this again with giant snakes and monitors, but nowadays peoples are better informed and will oppose to any such legislation, hopefully as many time such decision are financially motivated and peoples involved in these decisions have personal interest, guys like Grant are not common and definitely an example to follow, if I ever needed to fight any legislation I who’d most likely seek his advising.

As for crocodiles no I don’t sell them even if my life depended on it, not even to zoos, if I who’d breed for the pet tread I who’d only do the dwarf species.
Our objective is not to save the wild populations as much as it is to counter the smuggling of illegal trapped animals.

You have to know that animals in zoos no longer need to be bred, in fact many zoos routinely put down most of their offspring’s, tigers, lions you name it, they are saturated and most who’d not get involved in the long process of reintroduction.

If I could I who’d breed sea turtles and dolphins for reintroduction, this who’d be noble.

Long ago I met a woman, at first not so impressive kind of sad looking and easily irritated, I visited her fox breeding farm, 100s of cute little fox, and knowing these where not reintroduction animals, I looked at this silent woman with discus as I did not understand, these are here words (often when you really love animals you’re the one to suffer most) you see she devoted her life to foxes, and made a difference, I think of her every time I see a fox running in the fields.

Last aim not greedy, I never did anything for money, most peoples have an account man to make money, we have one to prevent us from going broke.
So when peoples ask me how many animals have you produced for this hubby, what deference or impacts are you making for CB reptiles.
None I think? But aim doing my best to see wild collected animals end up in the pet trade, as opposed of seeing them slathered for the fashion industries.
kind regards

ReptiZone

04-21-03, 07:39 PM

that is some realy cool stuff you do for the economy and I hope the laws will be overturned soon.

Lisa

04-21-03, 07:40 PM

Well I haven't dealt with retics or rocks, but taking a bite for the sake of the animal doesn't make sense to me. The animal can still lose teeth (one of our burms left 2 in me) and put you in the hospital... How is being stuck having to go to the hospital from a bite while handling the animal benifitial to the animal? You also end up not being able to handle the animal while you heal. While we don't have anything particularly large (our only adults are king snakes), I have noticed that when we have to put our hands on the bitey snakes they are less likely to bite when we're wearing gloves. If they don't bite they're not going to lose teeth. Sounds better for the snake if you ask me. Now I have noticed that the manual dexterity while wearing gloves is greatly impaired so once our hands are on the snake we usually drop the gloves or switch to latex. some times you need to handle the snake in a way that a hook just won't do.

Bryce Masuk

04-21-03, 07:58 PM

chrondo I think henry piorun breeds af rocks or atleast he seems to have C.B. rocks everyonce in a while they way i see it is rock are for the 1% of the 1% few should have them but they are amazing I personally wouldnt own them probley ever or at least for a long time i think any thing that can be done to protect the snake as well as your self should be done

Scales Zoo

04-21-03, 10:42 PM

Steeve.

I am never amazed at the interesting people I find out about living in all parts of Canada.

I'm glad you came out of your shell, there are so many people who are doing big things with reptiles, who keep all to themselves.

You are someone who I think a lot of the right people will be able to learn from.

I just wanted to ask one thing (advice).

Until very recently, we were housing a 22' male retic. He did not like people. He was very large, and seemed very strong for his size (haha) - actually - I had no idea that big snakes could be so strong. We had to wrestle the snake once, me, Sheila and my strongest friend - we all agreed that I needed 2 more stronger friends for the next time.

For this snake, I don't think your big gloves would have helped very much.

I trust our python hook for very many things, but the big retic could throw it at us with a twitch of his body.

The snake weighed over 200 lbs - what would you have done to move the snake?

While we had him, I had to deal with him (move for cage cleaning, or repairs) 6 times. I feel very fortunate that no one got hurt while this snake was with us - but if he would have stayed - I am not sure what we would have been able to do to keep this perfect track record.

Also Steeve. If you have any idea how to safely deal with our 6' + water monitor who is very fast and does not appear to be afraid of humans - please let us know. We have a 5' spectacled caimen who would also fit the same description. They both rate a 10 on the "evil" scale.

One should always be prepared to handle each and every animal in case of emergency. You have reminded me about that.

Ignoring the bits of un called for negativity in this thread - I think this has been one of the best threads I have read.

Looking forward to more good discussions like this one.

Ryan

Steeve B

04-21-03, 11:40 PM

Ha ha I bet your spectacled who’d score a perfect 10 on your evil scale, but the monitor is not a problem, fearless males are king of there territory they are protecting it viciously, what you need to do is get him out of there a little try using food or a water pool, something that he will associate with you as provider, you know a positive experience out of his domain. Water monitors adjust pretty fast to captivity, they will do what you want for food, long tweezers and a hook or a shield to protect you and this guy will follow you around, just make sure his not to hungry as to go ballistic on you, and everything shod be smooth.

We have big and dangerous pythons, now pleas peoples read this carefully before judging, glove are totally useless for these dangerous snakes, when we must handle them this is how I do it, I cover its head with a catchers mitt, with my other hand I grasp the neck I use all my 260lbs to hold it down while my partner immediately puts a thick condom over its head, as I release part of his nose from the mitt he puts the condom on then rapidly duck tape over it, we then cut an air hole and voila the snake is safe to handle, this may sound simplistic but as you know doing it is the hard part. We do this only the 2 of us but 2 extra guys are near by, but honestly I don’t think 4 is a crowd, I just hope to never miss this operation.

As for the caiman just lasso it and pin him down with a broom to close its jaws, then jump him and have someone secure his jaws. They are strong but not to overpower you, not at this size.
Kind regards

Scales Zoo

04-22-03, 09:44 PM

Thanks Steeve.

So what are you doing next weekend. I'd like you to come over and show me how to coax the big water monitor out of his cage with food. Somehow I don't think I could force myself to hold a rat (with tongs, sheild, face mask or what ever) to get this guy out.

The method might work fine, but I'd rather see you do it first. He is so fast he could take the rat when ever he wanted too. We've been putting all of his food in a tray, to avoid him rushing at the cage door when feeding. We have 2 doors, and he knows the differnence between the food door and the maintanance door (luckily) - By the way, all of the big snakes have 2 seperate doors that they seem to understand as well.

What we have done, is to wait until he is in his water pool and put a large peice of ply-wood over the pool. One of us weights it down, the other cleans the rest of the cage. The water pool is on a 2'' drain line - we can clean that without much problems. He doesn't mind me coming into his cage to clean the water tub - or do minor branch changes. He used to - he once chased me out of the cage in about 0.1 seconds.

As for the big snakes. I am near 260 lbs - and the big retic I mentioned moved me around the room with little difficulty.

I had thought about taping a sock or pillowcase over his head - but I'd have to practise for a while, riding the electronic bucking bull on setting 10, while taping a rubber boot that is covered in vasaline.

How does the condom trick work? When you cut the airhole, does that not compromise the strenth of the condom?

What brands are the toughest condoms?

Have you ever thought about doing a commercial for your favorite condom company? I can see it now - it would be the best commercial ever!

Ryan

nhherp

04-22-03, 10:19 PM

Has anyone thought of doing training with the monitors to get them to go into a trap box? I remeber seeing a segment on one of the TV shows where they were training Komodos to sound and sight cues. Monitors are very smart,alert animals, and this topic has alot of research left to be done. Fast ex.... start feeding him in a trap box. Use a bell or other distinctive nosie( I would think it would help to carry lots of vibration as opposed to electrical noise cues, in the segement they were using a bell, but monitors do have developed ears unlike snakes) to signify feeding time. At first move the food item around to create stimulation as well, then so on. If all goes well it may start entering the box on the bell cue alone. It would definately make work easier although if you talking about handling tolerations, it wouldnt help any. I dont work with any of the Varanidae, but have done so in the past. Just a quick post for the sake of posting.

Steeve B

04-22-03, 10:52 PM

Aim sure this can be don without problem, we have a small feeding pen with drain beside every big cages, I guess such a feeding box who’d work just as good. I will try this! Excellent post thanks.

Steeve B

04-22-03, 11:09 PM

Yes that who’d be the best commercial indeed ha-ha, before we cut air hole we duck tape over it, the reason we use the condom is 1 to save time 2 not to tape directly on skin, I here you about being tossed around, as soon as they know you have them it’s a race against coils coming at you, this why the condom you can slip them on fast and release the head to unwrap yourself. We use sheik extra large, but being married for 14 years aim not a condom expert, so my only suggestion who’d be don’t use those strawberry flavoured thin walled japans crap!

As for your monitors I rarely see such a monster be careful and work him slowly, I will visit you ASAP how can I refuse such a fun invitation, can the kids come along? Kind regards

Snake Lady

04-22-03, 11:14 PM

Scales Zoo
Can you elaborate on the whole condom thing cause it sounds like it would work and it seems to be a good method I am just wondering how to apply that on a large constrictors and how do you go about restraining it for the time needed.

Scales Zoo

04-23-03, 08:13 AM

One trick that had entered my mind was to build a catch box, and use it to trap him. I am certain he would enter the box for food. I use a catch box on all of our large pythons when i am working alone - less stress for the both of us. One snake in particular is very smart, he actually seems to think things through, and once tricked, he remembers. He only has to do a bad thing once to learn from it. I was trying to get him to enter the catch box so I could clean the cage. Everything went well until he had only 2 feet of tail to pull into the box. As I reached in to follow the tail into the box with a towel to plug off the hole in the box, I noticed his long tongue flicking out of the hole. Realizing the potential accident, I abandoned the idea and closed the door to the cage. He stuck his head out of the hole and perched himself on top of the box, with the remaining 15+ feet of him still inside the box. He actually seemed to be mocking me...STUPID HUMAN! You are going to have to think of something else, what are you going to do now? I am not falling for such tricks, I am an old snake, and smart, too. You can do better than this, I dare you!
Rotten snake stayed like that for 3 days. Fortunately I am more stubborn than he is, and took his water away. In a few days he was thirsty enough to leave the box so I could retreive it.
Funny about this snake, he is fine until you touch him. He can be worked around quite safely as long as there is no physical contact. Touch him, and the fight is on. Quite the A-hole. You can toss a blanket over him, and he will only poke his head out so he can watch you. He is not sneaky like the burms, they are so friendly and curious that you have to watch for them sneaking up on you. He just likes to be aware of what is going on.
It has been interesting working with him. I used to do a lot of horse training, and worked with the wildys they captured off a military base. These horses had never seen people before, and when they did they were being chased, herded, separated from the security of the herd, and shipped off to a new home. Some people made huge mistakes with these creatures, risking life and limb - one gentleman lost 3 fingers to a mare who had just foaled overnight when he reached down to pet it - she had no idea he was not a predator. Given a chance, these horses were a pleasure to work with, very honest about bucking and kicking ( I was the recipient of both ) and once they learned to see you as a source of food, and later, freedom to go exploring on trail rides, they were the most predictable mounts I ever worked with.

Steeve, we would love to have you as a guest! Bring out the family, and spend some time in the living desert we call home. The rattlers and bulls are emerging from the dens now, and should be out in full force by mothers day.

Sheila and Ryan

Scales Zoo

04-23-03, 10:19 PM

I can see this may get confusing. The post right before this was made by Sheila, hence the "Sheila and Ryan" - this one is by Ryan - hence the "Ryan and Sheila".

Anyways Steeve - I am going to go buy some "super large, very strong" condoms. If I don't get to try them with a snake, I will at least have the fun in buying lots of "wooly mamoth giant condoms" from every store I see!

To snake lady - I am not the one who knows how to get a condom on a large snakes head. Steeve can take the credit for that inovation.

I can see - it will soon replace "pin the tail on the donkey" as a favorite kids birthday party game. "get the Sheik condom on the giant mean snake" will be sure to be a new birthday party favorite. Use lubricated condoms and it would be more like a "catch the greased pig contest".

I guess for those people who don't live in a back woods kind of hick place, as we do, may not be so familiar with the "greased pig contest" - but let me tell you - it is as much fun as "wild cow milking" contests. I am not joking - both of these contests are practised in this area of Saskatchewan from time to time.

As far as the water monitor goes - he is not the gentle giant that I had hoped to grow. We got him when he was over 4' long - the guy who had him since he was small must not have worked with him much. He also is very protective of his large cage. I trust him more than Sheila thinks I should - but he and I have come to some what of an understanding. I do minor cleaning in his cage - and he doesn't run at my face with an open mouth (any more).

Some times he even stays on his favorite branch while I drain and scrub the pool.

I am very glad that the retic we kept is tame. She is currently 20' long and 225 lbs - and she doesn't mind me taking her out of her cage. The big male we had we named "boots" - because every time I had to deal with him - all I could see was all of the nice pairs of cowboy boots he could make.

I am glad to have had the opportunity to learn "hands on" a bit about working with very large and mean pythons - to gain respect, but also to cull some fears I may have had.

Suddenly the 12' african rock seemed like a cute little baby snake again.

Ryan