Fecal tests/parasites

[SnowFoxx]

How many of you get every snake you buy tested for parasites? What if you know they are all CB, and what about the ones who come from "good" breeders? I quarentine all my animals for six months, but have never had fecal tests done on any of them, because they all appear healthy (put on weight well, make pretty poop, etc.) and most of them are from well known, and/or responsible breeders. Opinions?

- Victoria :w

[Linds]

I used to always, but now I rarely ever do. Unless I am totally confident in the animal (ie- got it from someone who I kow for certain had wormed them, or really really trust the person who bred the animal itself), I treat newcomers with fenbendazole. If any of the animals have runny stools, or have excess gas, etc. then I also treat them with fenbendazole. If I can't solve the problem myself, that's when a fecal is in order :)

[reptilesalonica]

When i get a new snake i take a good look at the poops. If they are ok i leave it to the quarantine place for a short period. If the feces are smelly-green or/and watery, i use panacur for internal parasites. This is a must, for these snakes. If don't have this treatment they will have a lot of health problems in the future and might even die.
~Greg~

[eyespy]

I get every snake tested but then I have my vet friends over at least once a week since I run a rescue out of my house so it's not like I'm paying per fecal. You'd be surprised how many snakes have pinworms that don't show symptoms.

[SnowFoxx]

Pinworms should be visible in the stool itself, and should usually cause itching to the snake, so I'm guessing tail-rubbing or something would result that would be visible if you watched carefully. These are the symptoms in humans, at least (yep, my job is really gross sometimes!)

- Victoria :w

[Burmies]

I usualy quarentien them for a few months and get a stoll sample checked by the vet.

Burmies

[eyespy]

Pinworms are not visible anywhere near as often in snake feces, as they normally get a strain which comes from rodents and is therefore considerably smaller than a human's would be. People generally get a strain more commonly found in hoofstock like cattle and horses.

Best way to detect them is a fecal smear on a microscope slide. While they aren't microscopic they are indeed very tiny! They don't usually cause itching in the way they do in mammals, and so you can't go by a snakes' behavior. Itching in mammals is rectal, a cloaca isn't a mucus membrane and doesn't produce histamine the way a rectum does.

[eyespy]

Oops I meant to say humans get hoofstock strains IF they pick up a zoonotic strain. Primarily they get a class of worm that is entirely restricted to human beings.

Snakes get syphacians, humans get enterobians. Both are called pinworms but they are not even in the same genus.

[SnowFoxx]

Geez, you know a lot about worms O_o

;)

- Victoria :w

[Alicewave]

Perhaps I'm not as diligent as some herp keeper but here is what I have done so far. I had a fecal done on my first Leo and it was clear. I had a fecal done on my first snake and it was clear. After that I took in three rescue Leos. Two were housed together but I took one and my b/f took the other one. The one I took was extremely skinny so she went to the vet and had a fecal done which came out clear. Since she was housed with the other one, we just assumed he was free of parasites too. Plus it was the only herp my b/f had so there wasn't a risk of transmitting anything to other herps. We just decided to monitor it's health, which was picture perfect. The third rescue which came from the same family as the other two but was housed separately was the healthiest looking of them all so I did not have him tested since I'd be keeping him separate from the others. I've had them all for almost a year now with no signs of ill health. The most important thing, which I am diligent about is disinfecting your hands in between handlings, cleanings etc. It's one thing to keep herps in separate tanks but it does you no good if you don't disinfect your hands in between. If my herp collection ever grows, I plan to learn to do my own fecal float. I have heard it is not that difficult. Even if I can't identify the parasite I would at least be able to identify a clean fecal. Then if I found something unusual I'd take it to the vet to get checked out. The problem for me is that most vets around here wont do a fecal without examining the animal first for a 40 dollar fee. Plus another 10 for the fecal. I don't know a ton about every reptile but I know my own fairly well, perhaps better than most of the vets I have been to so far so it's only worth the 50 dollars to me if I have a reason to believe something is wrong.

[Xetox]

I worked for a the local vet in my home town when I was growing up, so for the most part I just take fecals to him and he does it for me for free. But I dont have every animal checked, I normaly go by what I see, and what I feel needs to be done!

[fr0glet]

Originally posted by Linds
I used to always, but now I rarely ever do. Unless I am totally confident in the animal (ie- got it from someone who I kow for certain had wormed them, or really really trust the person who bred the animal itself), I treat newcomers with fenbendazole.

This is precisely my answer and my method exactly. At this point I get fecals if I've already treated with fenbendazole (panacur, repeated at 2 weeks) and the animal is still displaying symptoms.

To whoever it was above who mentioned a sick animal showing a clean fecal - many types of parasites will not appear on a routine fecal. Also you will find that they don't always shed eggs, so they can get 3 clean fecals and 1 dirty. This is especially typical of cyrpto, in which case a gastric lavage (or stomach wash) is the next step.

[SnowFoxx]

Where do you get panacur, how how/how much do you give? I've dosed many different animals/people with various meds, so I'm sure I could handle this with a little instruction.

- Victoria :w

[Alicewave]

Froglet:
Crypto is a whole other story. Regular fecals don't test for it. Most vets charge around $100 american for a crypto test. I never bother with that unless there are signs of crypto. Crypto can only be transmitted through fecal contact, so again, cleanliness eliminates 99% of the risk.

If you were referring to me about the sick animal with the clean fecal, she was not sick, she was grossly underfed before I took her in. She doubled in weight two weeks after I took her in. A sick Leo would not have bounced back so quickly.

[Alicewave]

Wow, I didn't realize panacur was so readily available. You can get it at www.herpsupplies.com.

http://www.herpsupplies.com/cgi-bin/perlshop/perlshop.cgi?action=thispage&thispage=Group14244.html&ORDER_ID=929610857

[chas*e]

If in doubt.."panacur"..them out..!!!.....Even after applications of an anti-parasitic like Panacur one could take the sample, if you do not have the tools to check the feces yourself, to a Vet and let him inspect the sample....

[fr0glet]

Originally posted by Alicewave
Froglet:
Crypto is a whole other story. Regular fecals don't test for it. Most vets charge around $100 american for a crypto test. I never bother with that unless there are signs of crypto.

Alicewave, that is very interesting to read. My herp vet is somewhat underexperienced but I have had good service from them anyway and I keep bringing them herps to practice on. They're my only option in this small town. I have a rescued corn snake displaying symptoms of cypto (regurgitating on a semi-regular basis for a year, very skinny) and I have had 2 clean fecals for her. I have been saving up the $$ for a gastric lavage and they are estimating a price of $30 for the service, I was hoping they could ID crypto from that? Any further comments on the crypto test you were referring to?

<p>Panacur is also available at most seed&feed stores, sold in large tubes for horses. My doseage guides quote 50mg/kg. <a href="http://www.leaplizard.com/articles/dosage.html" target="_new">Here's a good article on doseage.</a></p>

[Alicewave]

I'm not exactly sure what the difference is or why a crypto test is so much more expensive. I know it's not detectable in a float so it's another method they use but I don't know what it's called. Another ssnakess member told me once but I forgot. Good luck with your snake.

[eyespy]

Alicewave, it's not exactly true that crypto is only detectable with expensive testing. Crypto is one of the coccidians and you CAN see oocysts in a fecal float and diagnose it that way. However, any of the microscopic parasites are tough to get accurate samples in a float. Affected animals don't always shed the oocysts in their feces, sometimes the colony is high up in the small intestines and the oocysts don't make it downstream. Other times the fecal float isn't mixed well enough (you really need to beat the crap out of that crap!) and the oocysts stay on the bottom of the vial instead of floating up to the top of the prep solution where they can make it to the microscope slide.

A fecal float that is positive for crypto from a microscope slide is considered definitive and no expensive testing needs to be done, but a "none seen" result is not considered diagnostic. So vets do a gastric or epigastric lavage to flush out the entire digestive tract if they have a strong enough suspicion that the animal has been colonized by crypto, and analyze the effluent for parasites. That is an invasive procedure and therefore rather expensive.

Also, lots of vets went to school back before they first started quantifying the various coccidial strains in the mid-1990s. If they see oocysts on a slide they diagnose coccidia, which is accurate, as crypto is one of the coccidians, they just don't have the tools to take it to the next level and diagnose which coccidian is in the slide. So a lot of the coccidia that is diagnosed may be crypto. If treatment with Albon or other sulfa drugs is ineffective, they often send the original slides to a lab for molecular testing to get a fully accurate quantification as to which coccidia you are dealing with, and that can cost around $600-900 USD.

[Sunrunner]

OK where do you get these meds from from your vet? I seen the panacur but what about the others? I ask because what if you have several different species and types of reptiles to take them all to the vet would be astronomical in price.

[Alicewave]

Eyespy you said a mouthful! (Most of which is over my head)
All I know is what I have been told from three different reptile vets that I have been to, it's a different type of test that needs to be done to find crypto, still with a fecal sample but it's treated differently. I don't know all the facts but then I never requested a crypto test because I never had an animal with symptoms. from what I have heard this test is not that much more difficult than a regular fecal, so I'm not really sure why it costs so darn much. Remeber, I am in the states so things may be completely different here.

[eyespy]

I'm in the states too, Alicewave. Unfortunately I've learned more about crypto than I ever wanted to because I was helping folks who got bearded dragons from a large reptile ranch in Central America get accurate diagnoses and treatment for the multiple parasites they got stuck with last summer. It was a nightmare!

Fortunately there were very few Canadians who had to deal with this. Although Toronto did get a few shipments of animals from that ranch there weren't any confirmed crypto cases reported, just other nasty parasites that were resistant to treatment. Canada was also smart enough not to allow that ranch to give live beardies as contest prizes to its citizens which saved them a lot of hassles.