Matt, here is that puff pic I promised.....

[Gregg M]

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1298puff1-med.jpg

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

Niiiiiice

[Tim and Julie B]

Wow how would you even see that in the wild? it would blend right in! Makes me glad the only snake you have to worry about here rattles!

[ETET]

A very nice puff with great pattern!! He or she?

ETET

[Matt]

sweeet!
awesome little cape ya got there gregg, shes got some great pink color on her.

thanks for the pic, been looking forward to that one for a while now :).....it was worth the wait!

[Gregg M]

ETET, that is a male..... I have a female that look just like him..... Same locality....... Glad you liked the pic Matt...... I have more that I will post later......

[Feed'em All]

Nice! how old is she/he?

Martin.

[Gregg M]

Hey Martin,
He is only about 7 months old...... He is quite nippy........ Tries to sink a fang every chance he gets.......

[Feed'em All]

I can imagine, hey do you have the puff antivenin at home? how did you get it?
Martin.

[Gregg M]

Yes I do have the AV....... It is the South African polyvent that covers all 3 of the big bitis and a few cobras....... Expensive stuff but worth every penny if something bad happens....... I actually ordered it straight from the manufacturer........ Do a search on SAPV and you should come up with something.......

[Feed'em All]

I think I have been in that website......how many vials do you have and how much it costs?.
I totally agree, worthy it is!

[BWSmith]

Cheap insurance. One problem with living in the US is AV is HARD to obtain for an individual and approved Crotalidae AV is VERY VERY expensive here. CroFab is about $750 a vial if memory serves.

[Jeremy]

Hey Greg M,
Im curious, are you state side? If so, then I take you have all of the FDA permit work takeing care of? Supposedly it is very, very difficult to get the permit unless you are a known zoological facilty.

Also, how did you go about getting a Doctor to sign off on it?

Please elaborate in detail. I only know of 2 people in the hobby who have actually managed to obtain these permits in the whole country(if you are from the US) and they had to go through hell to do it.

Also, BW, your about right on for the price of Crofab. It used to be 450 a vile but now has sky rocketed since supplies went so low last year. I read somewhere that production was on the increase so maybe the price will drop. At this rate, I would rather get tagged by one of my Naja kaouthia rather then any Crotalus. Av is a heck of alot cheaper!

Later,
Jeremy

[Gregg M]

Jeremy,
I do not understand what you are asking me........ Please go into more detail....... And I am in the US........

[Gregg M]

Sorry I misread your question...... It is really not that dificult to get the FDA permits....... It is a bit of paperwork and about a 2 to 4 month period before you get the AV in your hands....... And you can go to your family doctor to sign.......... If he or she is willing to do so.............. It is easier to get the AV and helps things along if you are permitted to keep these animals......... I can e-mail you more detailed info if you need it.......... Not many people take the time to get everything because sometimes in feels like you are going in circles.......... AV for non native species in considered an experimental drug and you need to have it imported........ It takes a while but is worth it..........

[Feed'em All]

what about the price of the AV for bitis?

[ETET]

As of March 2003, current price of 1 vial of SAIMR polvalent antivenom 10ml is $55USD (S&H extra).

ETET

[Feed'em All]

OK, one of this two things is happening here....
1) I am stupid I don't understand a word of you speaking english..
2)An imported AV is cheaper than the CroFab?

If n° 2 is happening (n° one always does, I'm stupid, let's face it...) You ppl shoud investigate how to import our AV (from Malbran Institute) which is done with Crotalus durissus terrificus (and all the argentinian bothrops). Because due to money change yuo could get that AV almost free...
Anyway, just a thought.
Martin.

[ETET]

Feed'em All,

Sorry for the abbreviation, it means South African Institute of Medical Research (SAIMR now called South African Vaccine Producers Ltd.) polyvalent antivenom. 10ml vial cost $55 US dollars excluding Shipping and Handling.

You are correct that this imported AV is cheaper than CroFab. CroFab is a newer AV which made from sheep, manufacturer says it contains mainly venom specific Fab fragments and does not contain many proteins responsible for adverse effect like older products (that's why more expensive or because of shortage??). What's the name or contact info of the AV you mentioned from Malbran Institute? I have terrificus too, if AV is almost free may be worth to take a look...

ETET

[Nightflight99]

Imported a/v is almost always much cheaper than the domestic CroFab. The reason for this lies in the fact that the production cost for CroFab are relatively high, as opposed to the relatively low production cost of imported a/v. Savage Laboratories distributes CroFab for the cost of $775.00 per vial. It comes in packs of vials, which means that the cost is $1,550.00 per 2-pack. The initial dosis consists of 6 vials, with additional vials being needed as it becomes necessary. Most hospitals that do carry CroFab stock between 12-20 vials.

The difficulty with obtaining exotic a/v is not generally the price, but the various permits and red tape one must overcome in order to legally import it into the United States. In addition, some of the more exotic manufacturers require minimum orders that would make it unfeasible for a private keeper. After all, who needs 150 vials of Daboia russelli antivenin?

A decent alternative was provided by the former Florida Antivenin Bank. For a relatively small annual membership fee, antivenin was provided as needed in the case of an emergency. Unfortunately, the Antivenin Bank has since been taken over by the government, and is no longer offering memberships. Instead, the Miami Dade Fire Rescue runs a separate department called 'Venom One', which provides antivenin and medical emergency counseling/treatment to snakebite victims throughout the United States. The only difference between the former Antivenin Bank and the current 'Venom One' unit lies in the fact that the antivenin itself was covered in the membership fee (however, not the transportation of the a/v to the hospital), and is now billed at cost to the patient.

Generally, all keepers of venomous reptiles should be encouraged to obtain exotic antivenin and store it at location for use in an emergency situation (administered in a hospital setup only!). If this proves unfeasible, every keeper should at the very least locate the nearest source of the appropriate a/v, and include this information in his/her emergency protocols.

Regards,

~TE

[Feed'em All]

I will check it out for the name of the Malbran AV (gimme a couple days).
Martin.

[Nightflight99]

No worries, Martin, I have the information regarding the Malbran a/v at hand. According to Theakston and Warrell (1991), the Instituto Nacional de Microbiologia in Buneos Aires produces five different antivenin, including

- Bothrops Bi-valent (B.alternatus, B.neuwiedi, B.ammodytoides)
- Tropical Trivalent (B.alternatus, B.neuwiedi, C.d.terrificus)
- Bothrops Tetravalent (B.alternatus, B.neuwiedi, B.jararaca, B.jararacussu)
- Antimicrurus (M.frontalis, M.corallinus)
- Anticrotalus (C.d.terrificus)

The contact address is as follows:

Instituto Nacional de Microbiologia
"Dr.Carlos G. Malbran"
Avdo. Velez,Sarsfield 563
Buenos Aires
Republica Argentina

Phone: 4303-1804
4301-1433

However, Martin may want to double-check this contact info, as it may be outdated by now.

Hope this helps.

~TE

[Feed'em All]

Wow! yup that's correct, I have heard that AV vial is 75 pesos, around 25 US dollars, is the one you have to keep in the frigde (I dunno how to say it in english, sorry).
So, I guess 25 bucks is a bargain 4 u guys, do some research about it!.
MARTIN.

[Gregg M]

Hey martin, Thanks for the info........ And the way you say that word in english is re-fridge-er-ator.......