Spurr'thigh question

[Sunrunner]

Ok question for you ... I have had one for about 6 months maybe longer now but he doesn't seem to be growing.. I feed him all the appropate veggies and powders what is the avarage growth? He is fairly small about the size of a tennis ball.. I have recently bought tortoisse food the pellets to try but he seems unintrested are there any tricks to get him to eat them? is this an avarage growth? slow i mean? Any help would be appricated.
Thanks Kim:)

[Tim and Julie B]

Do you have uv lighting? Also give it a varied veggie diet for different vitamins. Proper temp.,lighting and diet are very important. Some do grow faster then others. But I think there maybe something wrong. Is he active? Do you soak your tortoise? It is a good way to keep them hydrated and many breeders say it is an important piece of tortoise husdandry. I have a small liberary here and will look up anything I can find. Tomorrow, right now it's 2 am!

oh... I tried those pellets for my box turtles. Only one out of seven would even touch them.

[Sunrunner]

Hi The Temps are good and lots of UV I also feed him a good varied diet that was why I was wondering if it was normal for the growth process to be so slow, he is sometimes active but likes to sleep alot I also have a mineral block for him (he does not seem to interested in that either )He looks good and healthy just not growing to much.

[Linds]

I wouldn't worry about trying to get him to eat the tortoise pelletts, if he won't eat them he won't eat them. A natural diet is best anyways. As for growing, I don't have a solid answer for you, but I have a similar experience, hopefully someone will be able to provide answer to yours an mine. We have an African Spurred tortie at work, and it appears as though over the past year he has actually gotten smaller :eek: He eats like a pig, is otherwise healthy with good solid stools. I thought we traded him for a smaller one at one point, because it just appears as though he gets smaller. He's now about 2 years old I think, and much smaller than my yearling redfoot - a little unusual since they are supposed to be the quickest growing torties :rolleyes: Have you ruled out parasites, etc for your tortie?

Originally posted by Tim and Julie B
Do you soak your tortoise? It is a good way to keep them hydrated and many breeders say it is an important piece of tortoise husdandry.

These are desert tortoises, hence you won't find them soaking in the wild. They shouldn't need to IMHO. Just an opinion...

[Sunrunner]

Yes I have there has been no contact or possible way that anything could have been contracted. he is good and healthy I have heard as well that they were the fastest growing species of all them that is why I was wondering in the first place :) I do provide a water dish for him that he can soak in if he wishes , but i dont ever find him in there :)

[Tim and Julie B]

I talked to a breeder today and he said that he's had some that just didn't grow as fast. He said it isn't really a big problem if it is healthy. I haven't given up yet I am still looking. He soaks his spurs, leopards etc once a week. I have also read it somewhere. This is probably not the case but sometimes the larger greeks (sometimes called N.african or Moorish tortoise) are called spur thighed. Testudo graeca. I know it's happened before. But I would like to think that no one does that anymore. I'll keep looking. Linds it looks like it's getting smaller? Wow that's a tough one.

[beth wallbank]

if you are trying to get the tort to eat pellets and he's never had them before, it can sometimes be helpful if you add a bit of pear, apple, strawberry juice to it for flavor. Tortoises should be fed a generous diet of veggies and greens, supplimenting of course, but you seem to have that end handled fine. Sulcatas for one, have funny growth spirts, and with you seeing him everyday, you won't notice it as would a person that only sees him like once a month or so. I wouldn't worry too much about the growth bit. If he's eating plenty, getting proper lighting and ample heat, then it's all good. Trust me, you will miss the baby days when they are all grown up and crashing through the gyprock walls or eating the door trim. LOL

[eyespy]

Originally posted by Linds
These are desert tortoises, hence you won't find them soaking in the wild. They shouldn't need to IMHO. Just an opinion...

That's actually one of the biggest myths in herping. Desert environments have a pretty significant dew because of the cold night temperatures followed by a hot daytime sun. Most desert species get a daily dewbath that helps to keep them hydrated. It's not a bad idea to simulate this in captivity by giving desert species a short daily soak and then keeping the habitat dry during the rest of the day. Sulcatas that have not been soaked regularly are very prone to kidney stones and gout.


Sunrunner, do you know if your tortoise is captive bred or wild caught? It's not unusual for WCs to show very little growth the first few years in captivity and then have a growth spurt. Even when parasites aren't an issue there's a lot of stress on WCs and they often grow quite slowly until they adjust.

Is your tortoise getting enough fiber in its diet? They really do require a lot of insoluble fiber from grasses and weeds in order to digest their food properly. If the diet is primarily "grocery greens" there isn't enough roughage and that throws off their digestion. Unlike mammals, torts use the roughage to help break down their foods as they don't have as high an acid content in their GI tract.

When we humans don't get enough roughage we get constipated. Tortoises, on the other hand, lose too much of their food through their stools without having extracted the nutrients first. They actually pass more stool than they should when they are low in fiber which slows down their growth rate. Getting too much fruit makes the problem worse so make sure that fruit is no more than 5% of your tort's overall diet. Aim for about 50% grasses, 45% greens and veggies, and 5% fruit.

Originally posted by Sunrunner
Yes I have there has been no contact or possible way that anything could have been contracted.

Animals that eat raw foods can contract a number of different parasites through their diets. Especially things like pinworms and hookworms or water-borne protozoa and flagellates. They don't need to have come into direct contact with an animal in order to have parasites. Best to take in a fresh fecal sample and get it checked at least once or twice a year to be sure there isn't a parasite issue.

[Sunrunner]

Sounds good guys and gals I really appricate the feedbackone can only read so much but I also prefer to ask people with experiences with these herps everybody has a different oponion on these things and it is nice to hear everyones, Ill get him checked for parasites just to be sure:)

[Linds]

Hmmm... I've never heard of that before. Learn something new everyday :)

[eyespy]

Originally posted by Tim and Julie B
I talked to a breeder today and he said that he's had some that just didn't grow as fast. He said it isn't really a big problem if it is healthy. I haven't given up yet I am still looking. He soaks his spurs, leopards etc once a week. I have also read it somewhere. This is probably not the case but sometimes the larger greeks (sometimes called N.african or Moorish tortoise) are called spur thighed. Testudo graeca. I know it's happened before. But I would like to think that no one does that anymore. I'll keep looking. Linds it looks like it's getting smaller? Wow that's a tough one.

I did some checking, the big old Sulcatas are properly called African spurred tortoises and the smaller Testudos are properly called spur-thighed tortoises. So now I wonder which one Sunrunner has?? I looked at the pics in the other thread and it's just too hard to tell from them.

[eyespy]

I got yelled at bigtime by one of my tortoise-keeping vet friends for my diet ratio recommendation! I'd worked in a vet hospital for years but never kept torts myself so I was quoting old info I learned in school back in the 80s and what the vets have been telling clients ever since. Thank goodness I double-checked with David so I'm not misleading you!

The approved diet ratio for arid climate torts is now more than 75% grasses and weeds, almost all the rest assorted grocery greens and other veggies and minimal or no fruit. Giving veggies just once or twice a week is preferred. The acids in fruit can kill off the beneficial bacteria in a tortoise's gut which is needed for proper processing of their high-fiber diet. Treats of lower acid fruits like melon are fine but shouldn't be given often. They respond just as well to colorful things like edible flowers (rose, hibiscus, marigold, geraniums) that don't have the acid problem.

[Tim and Julie B]

Wow eyespy that's great info! I am sorry I should have worded that better. I meant that the larger greeks were also called spur thighed. Sulcatas are generally as well. Sunrunner how is it doing now?

[eyespy]

Well, if sulcatas are called spur-thighed, that's actually wrong. Their spurs should be the entire hind leg, not just the thighs. Sulcatas are African spurred, not spur-thighed.

[Tim and Julie B]

That may be the case but everyone still refers to sulcatas as spur thighed. Thanks again for the feeding info! It's very useful. I wonder if it applies to box turtles as well? Probably not the same %'s though.

[eyespy]

Not even close for boxies, they need animal protein like snails and slugs and even fish. Overall they take a much richer diet. They'd starve to death on grasses. Box turtles cannot form vitamin A effectively from plant-based foods and need to eat the livers of other animals for the best nutrition.

[Tim and Julie B]

good to know thanks. That means I'm doing it right! They're really healthy but I thought I'd ask though to see if they need a little ruffage too. I just got eggs! Yahoo!!! Sunrunner how is your little guy?

[Sunrunner]

Thanks for all the info ppl :) he is great really healthy i was just worried about his size I am currently in the process of getting more pic's then i can show you better :)
I really enjoy keeping a tort here and the more info the better!

[Sunrunner]

also I bought him as an African spurred so I am assuming it is the former but maybe with the pics you will be able to help me out do they have a different growth rate?

[jadegrasse]

My little African spur thighed took forever to start growing but really took off in his second half of the second year.

Alain

[eyespy]

Yes, their growth rates are very different. A HUGE testudo rarely gets more than 10 inches total carapace length, which even a severely malnourished sulcata can achieve easily. All torts ideally have a slow but steady growth rate for their first 6-12 months but even still a sulcata will grow much faster.

[shawnahiltz]

Maybe try talking to him or singing to him!!!!!!!