Just fat or....

[Denethor]

Hi
I bought 2 leo almost 2 week ago, 1 male and a female..
They dont have their original tail so i cant give u their real mesure, but they are between 3 or 5 month and measure 3"1/2- 4" STV ..
I was really thinking that they were too young to be able to bred, but yesterday night i saw them copulating.......!!!!!!!! a few day before i was considering to separe them until they get a better size to bred...
But after realizing that they were maybe not as young as I expected, I beleve now that my female may already have eggs before... I realise it before, but I didnt pay attention to that because i was thinking that she was way too young for that... and she was a little bit kinna fat !!
They are my first leo btw... so im not really a lot acoutumate with their normal healty shape in real ..
But that also seem to have grown since last week...
Her feeding responce is also lower since yesterday, is that a sign?
So what do you all think?
The risk for an egg retention should be really hight at her size?
and btw.. do u think she has eggs when u see those pics? I dont really see any in her belly, but she is so big.....
and if she dont have any eggs what can be the cause of that big sized belly? parasit?
Sorry for the long post
Thanks
Cya
Denethor
PS: Im gonna build an incubator tonight.. just in case!!
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1350alaya1-med.jpg
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1350alaya2-med.jpg

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

That second pic looks like shes gravid. Watch her, she looks young. The eggs prolly wont be fertile due to her size/age. Keep a good eye on her tho, being that young with eggs might do her some damage. Good luck.

[KRYSTA]

my aunt has 3 gravid leos and i would say that that leo is not gravid. my aunt lives upstairs so i had her look at the pic and she says that it is definately not gravid (just a little fat...if that...lol). so i doubt u have to worry. and if by any chance she is gravid then the eggs probably wont be any good!

[geckoguy157]

krysta why wouldnt the eggs be good if she saw them copulating and that female could be posibly gravid but u wouldnt be able to tell from that pic unless it was a couple days before laying

[geckoguy157]

well she isnt that small so u shouldnt have to worry about egg retention i have had females lay eggs who are that size they just have smaller eggs but they can be to small to lay but looking at the picture u should be fine

[reptilesalonica]

I see the fat tail and i believe that this gecko is not a fat but just a gravid gecko. Krysta, my female highyellow leo had a smaller belly and she bred one big fine egg. Denethor try to shoot a close up from below. If there are any egg(s) they can be viewed easier.

[Linds]

Yikes. She's definitely too tiny to be bred. You shouldn't house males and females together until the female is of breeding age and size, because although the males might not suffer from premature breeding, it can prove very risky for the females. You run into such issues as stunted growth, egg retention, death etc. As for if she is gravid, she does appear to be from the side, though its somewhat hard to guage from that angle. As reptilesalonica suggested, try and get a belly shot from beneath. If she has eggs you will be able to clearly see them through the bottom. Hope all goes well for her...

[geckoguy157]

well linds i think the gecko should be big enuf some females olny get that big full grown and at the size u shouldnt have to worry about egg retention because it looks big enuf i have never had problems with a female laying eggs at that size the eggs may be a bit smaller but thats it i havent seen any problems and they should be good eggs if the female has lots of calcium but that works with any size gecko but i agree with linds i wouldnt recomend breeding them at that age but if it happens it happens

[Denethor]

Hi
Since this morning I think I see 2 kind of really smal white spot ( 1 cm of long each) on her belly... thats wasnt like that before ( or maybe just alucinating because it doesnt appear on the picture!)...
And yes I know Linds that they are way too young to try a "safe" breeding attempt..
But they were already housed together since a few month when I bought them ...
I was sure at this moment that sexual maturity was at 1 year.. and they are between 3-5 month.. So I didnt saw at the moment any problem to house them together... but anyway it probably happened before..
But they keep copulating...??? I saw them 4 times (2 times in only one day.. lol) and I saw the male triing again today, but the female refuse that time...
Does that could mean that she wasnt gravid at all when i bought them, and now.... she is!? That would make me a " tabarnak de cave" to didnt separe them before.......
raaaahhh if something bad happen Im gonna never forgive it to me...
Would it be something I can do for her to minimise the risks? Ive tried to offer her a small pinky to get a nice amout of calcium for helping her into the job she is triing to accomplish, but she refuse it.. so im only gutloading crickets with calcium as usual..
Thanks
Cya
Denethor
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1350127_2731-med.jpg

[Tim and Julie B]

From that last photo it doesn't look like she's gravid. She does look healthy though. If you are unsure about her age you should seperate her from the male. Just to be sure not to breed her too young. You should never breed reptiles just because you think they are big enough or weigh enough. I have a female leo who is 2.5 years old and she is only 5.5 inches long head to tail tip, and Ive never had any problems breeding her or keeping her weight up, and she definately isn't anywhere near the 50+ gram requirements that I've seen people go by for breeding them!(her babies are all very short too so it's a genetic thing) I also have a female leo who is only 8 months old but she is 9 inches long and weighs 54 grams, but I sure as heck wouldn't breed her this year. If they weren't my geckos and I bought them from someone and didn't know their age I wouldn't breed the bigger one just because she looked old enough-see what I'm getting at? Looks to me like she's probably just healthier now than when you first got her. Keep up the good work and don't worry too much, just be sure to seperate your new pets until next year.J.B.

[Denethor]

J.B. Im gonna separate them.. but im not sure if that gonna really does something.. they copulate 4 time ( probably more times that i didnt saw..) But I also really doesnt want to take some aditional risk if the breeding ever doesnt success before and begin to work in a few week...
thanks everybody
Denethor

[geckoguy157]

well she definetly isnt gravid and i wouldnt worry about seperating them there should be no problems and they have already bred and she hasnt gottin gravid but she mite be u usaly cant see if there gravid till about 20 days after they copulate for the first clutch and they both arnt sexualy mature so they cant produce eggs anyway

[Denethor]

mm ok.. but i think im gonna separe them anyway..... the male is ALWAYS after her , triing to mate.......... he is really obcess!! this is probably so stressfull for her...

[Tim and Julie B]

I agree that it is probably very stressfull for her. Keep up the good work, and have fun with your new pets.

[Linds]

Defintiely separate them, if she isn't gravid then your lucky, but the longer they are houseed together the better the chances that she will become gravid. They often reach sexual maturity at under one year of age, males however will start breeding sometimes at unbelievablely young ages. Often the female may be able to reproduce, but not safely yet, and that's when the complications happen. That's why its important to keep them separate until they are ready, even if you do not intend on breeding them, because it can always happen ;)

[Denethor]

I had separate them yesterday night.. the female seem much "better" now.
I am planning to breed them .. but not right now...! Im gonna put them togeter back on next year..
Just have to pray now that she isnt gravid.....
Thanks again

[geckoguy157]

you wont need to worry about her getting egg bound i have had females lay at that size and never had a problem and if they are to young to breed they wont produce eggs anyway so dont worry about the egg thing

[SnowSnake]

Linds: When do you think I should house my male with my female? (my female is currently about 10 months old and my male almost 7 months old).

thanks!
SnowSnake

[geckoguy157]

you should probably wait till the male is 10 months but its more important the female is older becaise she need her size but if the female is alot bigger then the male he might get intimedated so u could probably wait a month or 2 and put them together

[Linds]

SnowSnake,
IMHO females can be housed with males as young as one year of age, provided they are in breeding condition (good fat stores, mature body condition - if they look like babies still, keep them apart a while longer). 1.5 years of age is a better bet in most cases (if you are even willing to let her go into her second year that is great). Males it isn't as important. They can produce viable sperm earlier than a year, and even though they are still maturing, are still able to successfully breed with no subsequent problems :)

[SnowSnake]

Thanks!! I'll wait in june when she'll be 1 year old to put them together and buy more leos!

thanks again,
SnowSnake

[Denethor]

hum.. i finaly get a "good" shot of her white spots on the belly.... That are a lot bigger than how they were...
also she dont poo since a few day ... Ive take her a small bath, but without any sucess.. but she is still eating ( with a small loss of apetite) but still eating.. ( she is keept on slate btw.. so it cant be a sand impaction?)
Cya
Denethor
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1350129_2907.jpg