Fatten Up Albino?

[Samba]

Hey guys,
Well I consider myself to be a great leopard gecko owner, I give my babies food, water, stimulation, warmth, etc. But about two weeks ago I noticed Girl not eating as much. She's about 8 months old and only 5 or 6 inches long (with her tail). I consulted my vet about this and he suggested that I separate her from Darwin for a few weeks to see if that made her more comfortable. He thought maybe Darwin was either making advances towards her, or maybe his size intimidated her (he's about 2 inches longer... but a heck of a lot of more heavier). So, about a week ago I separated them from their original 20 gallon tank and placed them both in 10 gallons tanks, (I didn't want either of them to have the 'good' cage to themselves while being separated... it didn't seem fair!) Since then, Girl has not really eaten much. She stays in her hide, and generally is less active then she was when she was with Darwin in the 20 gallon tank. Girl has always been a small, skinny, feminine gecko. I got her at PetsMart (I know! I know!) a few months ago when they made a pricing mistake and sold her to me for $34.00 (she's an albino). I wonder if maybe her being albino made her naturally thin. I don't know. I'm guestimating she weighs around 25-30 grams or so. My vet says to give her a few weeks to adjust before 'freaking out' (he knows how I am about my 'kids'). We're gonna test her for crypto and other parasites again, even though she passed those tests months ago. Ayone have any suggestions? She has not really lost weight, she just isn't gaining and eating as much as I'd expect a young leopard to. I am currently offering food everyday (mealworms and superworms were prescribed to make her fat), and crickets (as many as she will eat) 3 times a week. She usually likes baby food, but hasn't been 'into it' for some time now. This is frustrating! I'm starting to think she's a midget! Any advice is welcome! Thanks in advance!

[Herp guy]

Um, My friend had this problem. He got it to eat once and then sold it. Um, you could offer fruit flies. Thats all i can really say.

[Samba]

Did your friend ever find out WHY his gecko wasn't gaining? How did he get it to start eating? I'll try the flies, but I think they're so small she wouldn't bother with them. The ones at the pet store are the size of knats! (Probably what they are too... LOL) Thanks!

[depressor86]

get yourself some mealworm bettles, wait about an hour after lights out and put a bettle or two into the cage.

i did this the other day and wow, ive never seen my leo get more stimulated and into hunt mode. she then went after everything and anything, even eating a non moving pupated mealworm that i hadnt taken out since the previous night :o

worth a try at least

[Samba]

Yeah, my Girl likes the pupae too! She has one in her tank as we speak, but she just doesn't seem interested. I'll let you guys know what happens, and keep posting suggestions! (P.S. I'll try the beetles!)

[HQReptiles]

I have never seen a leopard go for fruit flies, they are much too small. I also have never seen a leopard eat a mealworm beatle, they are susposed to taste very bad and are full of chittin.

Keep offering kingworms, crickets, try waxworms or butterworms if you can find them. All in all I wouldnt worry unless she stops eating or starts to lose weight.

Matt.

[depressor86]

wonder how one figures out they taste bad ;p

[peregrinefalcon]

I wouldn't worry too much about her being smaller, some leos are just smaller - just like people. Plus females are usually smaller then males anyway. As long as she is eating I would not worry at all. If you want her eating more maybe you should try a type of roach, one of mine really likes hisser nymphs. Just an idea!
Adam

[Samba]

Thanks, Matt and Adam, and everyone!
I'm getting worried. I've rescued a lot of sick leos, but Girl is a pet that I bought and I don't wanna have to 'rescue' her too! Matt: Girl really, really, really likes waxworms, however my vet said not to feed her too much too often because nutritionally they aren't that great for her, and he doesn't want her becoming deficient. I gut load them first with leftover plants and stems that I feed my iguana, but I tend to feed them to her about 6 hours after the worms have eaten. My vet said this is fine, but I've heard that you should wait DAYS after gut loading. So, if someone could clear that up for me I'd appreciate it. Adam, hisser nymphs sound really interesting, I'll see if I can find them in my area. Girl still looks the same, but it's been about two weeks, and I just want to make sure she's ok. Also, I had a question for everyone: does anyone find little tiny fuzzy bugs in with their mealworms from time to time? It seems like I always get those little guys mixed in with my mealworms. I usually just throw them out because they're small and I don't know what they are... but any hope of utilizing them as a bonus food source?
Thanks a lot guys, I hope to hear from you soon =)

[Alicewave]

It definitely sounds like she is too small to be with a male and that could really be the root of your problem. Leos shouldn't be kept together to breed until they are at least 45 grams (in my opinion anyway) My rescue girl Aurora weighed on 8 grams at 6 months old when I got her partly because her owner never fed her and party because what the owner did feed got gobbled up by the male before she had a chance. Males are definitely more aggressive feeders I've found so when you do keep them together, I'd remove the male to feed the female. You definitely did the right thing separating her. Wait until she is bigger and more equal to the male in size before you put them back together. I would not try feeding a beetle. I have heard leos can get impacted from the beetle shells. Instead try a waxworm or silkworms if you can get ahold of them.

I will say this, Leos fast. All of mine have at some point. Murtle, my 3 year old went for 2-3 months only eating 1 or 2 worms every other week. Now she is eating like a horse again. Lately Aurora has been a pickier eater as well so your girl could just be fasting but I think she is too small to be doing that just yet. If she responds to no food at all for several weeks and starts getting smaller, I'd suggest you try this powdered assist feed formula called Enteral Insectivore. It worked great on Aurora. She beefed up from 8-16 grams in two weeks on that stuff. If you want to try this go to www.herpnutrition.com, call the number on the website and as to order enteral insectivore.

Good luck and do keep us posted.

[Samba]

Dear Alice,

Thanks for your support. I'm not sure what's wrong with my Girl. She's really petite, and intially appears interested in food. (She'll investigate wiggling worms and such, but only eats one, if I'm lucky). I thought separating her would help out, but really she's less active and hides all day. She remains alert, (and she's so cute) because she'll peek out of hide when I'm around. I'll try that Enteral Insectivore and see if that helps. Thanks again. I'll keep you guys posted.

[peregrinefalcon]

Samba,
Those fuzzy bugs are used for eating the waste of crickets and mealworms and also for eating the dead ones. I personally have offered them a few times but my leos did not seem to interested in them, plus because of what they eat they are probably not the best to feed them. But a few every now and then couldn't hurt, and if you have an anole it would probably love them! Mine sure did :D
Hope this helps ya out,
Adam

[peregrinefalcon]

Oh yea, it is ok to feed them the insects that have just recently eaten, that's what I usually do.
Adam

[Samba]

LOL okay... I was just curious. Never knew they served a purpose! =)

[DragnDrop]

I'm inclined to think she might be gravid, in which case she won't eat (or not much) until she's laid the eggs. Make sure she's got a nesting box handy "just in case".

[Samba]

DragnDrop, thanks for the advice. I have supplied her with a 'nest box' just in case, but I don't think she's gravid. She's been separated from the male for about a month now, and she isn't 'showing' but I know females lay eggs even when their not gravid. I'm keeping an eye on her, and in the last couple of days she's refused ALL mealworms, and eaten one superworm. I just bought a 6 week old baby Leopard gecko yesturday that eats more then she does! (5 mealworms before 24 hours was even up!) Well, keep the advice coming, and I'll let you guys know what happens! I ordered the Enteral Insectivore recommended above, but it takes a few weeks to get here. I'll tell you guys how it works out. Thanks again, you've all been very supportive.

[Alicewave]

It should only take a couple days for Enteral Insectivore to get to you. It only took about 2 days for me and a few extra for someone in canada. But if she's eating superworms, you may want to stick with those for now.

[Samba]

Thanks, Alice. I can't wait for it to get here (ok, I ordered a whole bunch more stuff for them too). Girl has only eaten 1 superworm in about 4 or 5 days. Like I said, she's not losing weight, I'm keeping her very warm, she's living alone now and I still offer food everyday. She acts normal pretty much (well, more hiding) she just doesn't eat. My vet wants to wait to run those tests again (cuz it's so soon after the last time... only a few months ago) but it's bothering me. I've got her under a microscope now, just checking her all the time, I'm sure it bugs her, but you know... she's my baby! I'll keep you updated!

[fr0glet]

Originally posted by Samba
DragnDrop, thanks for the advice. I have supplied her with a 'nest box' just in case, but I don't think she's gravid. She's been separated from the male for about a month now, and she isn't 'showing' but I know females lay eggs even when their not gravid.

I think you've got your signals crossed there :). The word gravid means they are pregnant with eggs in their bellies. Leos of adequate weight and age will lay eggs regardless of whether they were fertilized or not.

My females always go off feed and reduce their activity levels when gravid. With 6 females it seems like SOMEONE is ALWAYS gravid! :medglasse

[Samba]

My bad, you are correct. I still don't believe she's gravid. I did understand, however, the leos lay eggs wether or not they're fertile, as I said in the above post. Still keepin an eye on her though to see how she's doin... keep postin ideas!

[Alicewave]

I only have two females but they have never laid unfertile eggs for me.

[Samba]

Update:

Well, in the last 4 days Girl has eaten consistantly (still not a lot, but much better). Still don't know what caused her to stop, but glad to see she feels better now. Even though her body is skinny, her tail has plumped up a little... I found that to be unusual... anyone have an ideas? She's eating around 4 items a day now (crix and mealies). Thanks for all your help... still haven't recieved the Enteral Insectivore, but I'm waitin' for it!

[fr0glet]

Alicewave, how old and how heavy are your leos? A lot of females don't start "cycling" until they are in pristine health - over a year old and over 50-60 grams in weight.

Also I've read if they don't have enough calcium in their diet they can just reabsorb forming eggs, or if it's not warm enough their bodies won't cycle.

Normal healthy adult female leos should create 2 eggs every 6-8 weeks all through spring and summer.

[Alicewave]

They both get plenty of calcium and are pushing 70 grams each. The temps are right as well. I think one is a "hot" female though and the other was a rescue and grossly underfed for it's first 6 months so I would not be surprised if she never lays. Neither of them have been around a horny male long enough so that might have something to do with it. Does anyone else that keeps females alone all their lives get unfertile eggs? I know it can happen but I didn't think it does in every case.

[Samba]

Alice,

My first female leopard gecko was 'hot' she was the sister of my first male leopard gecko. They never mated (for obvious reasons) but after about a year in age she started laying eggs every few weeks. I don't know if ALL females cycle, but it seems as though they should. I have also heard of females reabsorbing eggs, but this is usually due to less then perfect health... that is strange that your girls don't lay....

[peregrinefalcon]

The one female leopard gecko I keep now has never laid unfertile eggs, or any eggs for that matter. I really don't think not laying infertile eggs is unhealthy. Mine is in top shape!
Adam

[Alicewave]

I don't think so either Adam. This is the first thread I have read otherwise but some of my friends who have more females than I do who are big and fat and healthy don't cycle regularly.

[Tim and Julie B]

Well, I've had leos for about 4 years and have had many babies hatch. It almost seems as though se could be gravid-even at 8 monthe it's possible. My females usually stop eating 2-8 days before they lay(even the piggiest ones!) and nothing I give them makes them hungry enough to want to eat. I gut-load my crickets and worms for 24-48 hours, usually with carrot slices, strawberry leftovers and high quality fish food. That gives them all the essential nutrients and then I dust my insects with a calcium-D3 powder. Hope this gives you some help and good luck!