Craigslist

[dangernoodles]

There are a surprising amount of ball pythons available in my area for sale on craigslist, I e-mail pretty much all of them. I ask a lot of questions (I probably am pretty annoying, but want to know about the snakes health because that´s what matters the most) a lot of people need to re-home them and I might buy em from craigslist so I don´t have to pay the super pricey shipping (which I understand, cause its a live animal, and I might still buy one online, haven´t really decided since I want to do as much research as possible prior to getting one)

Now, I come across this post that is selling a high white pied BP, and those are one of the more expensive morphs, but I decided to e-mail them anyway. They reply with one big run on sentence trying to pack as much information as possible in one e-mail, the only question I asked is what was the re-homing fee. He ends the e-mail with ¨Where exactly do you live?¨. He seems pretty desperate to get rid of this snake. I don´t tell him where I live of course, that´s a stupid idea. The main point is, he was selling it for $200 with a tank and accessories, delivered.

That seems a bit suspicious. So I do a google search for the image on the original CL post and would you look at that, the exact same photo from some completely different breeder. I checked out the breeder´s website and the cheapest snake they had was $300 (it was a pastel I believe). On top of that, pieds usually sell for at least $500-600 or much much more (excluding het pieds and low white ones, which still sell for a couple hundred bucks). I asked them for pictures so we´ll see what they say.

This is kind of a rant, but I also wanted to ask If anyone has had a similar experience.

[craigafrechette]

I'd be super careful buying from Craigslist. Since snakes are so good at hiding illness you never really know. Then, instead of shipping fees you may end up with vet bills instead. Quite frankly, there's too many crappy people out there that ruin things for the good ones. They could be lying about age, feeding, health, etc...

More often than not they're getting rid of the animal because they decided to stop caring for it long ago and you never know how the animal was cared for or what it may be hiding.

Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future, you can't really plan on expos either.
This is strictly a guess on my part, but you may see prices start dropping online. Breeders who rely on expos to move "x" amount of animals per year may be sitting on inventory and drop prices a little bit to at least have some sales. Some are better than none. But like I said, that's just a guess on my part.

I'm not saying you won't find quality, healthy animals on CL, but when buying from a reputable breeder you know what you're getting.

Good luck! But my two cents would be to keep an eye on morohmarket and find onr you really like from a reputable breeder.

[dangernoodles]

Yeah, I ask a lot of questions to the people rehoming or selling snakes on cl, and if they can't confidently answer my question or answer it at all I don't consider buying from them. People are weird, the internet's a weird place. I keep an eye on morphmarket frequently because it's more likely i'll get a healthy snake, but if I do find a good bp on cl (after asking all the nessecary questions and seeing if they are treating/feeding the snake well, as well as seeing as many pictures as possible and it's a plus if I can see them before) i'll more than likely buy it. Good point with the vet bills though.

Edit: Heck, they actually sent multiple photos and it looks like they are actually selling it for $200. It's about 1200g(as the scale says, no idea if that's accurate) it's feeding on medium rats and they once again ask for my address and asked how i'm going to pay... Not really sure what to respond with since i'm not nessecarily interested in buying. It's a pied for sure and has a really sad looking 30 gal enclosure with a super small hide, a stick, and some aspen bedding. Yikes. I can attach pictures If anyone wants to see but I don't think I trust em'.

[craigafrechette]

If your gut says don't trust it, listen.

[dangernoodles]

^^^ Correct. ^^^

I do hope he finds a good home, but in this situation cheap and readily available is not a good idea for me. It could have hidden sicknesses that while I have done research, I definitely don't have the experience to help with said sicknesses and it'd be the benefit of me and the snake to go to a more reliable owner. Unexpected things come with having any animal and I do expect to have issues at one point or another, which I plan to be prepared for.
Besides, while pieds are an awesome morph, the snakes health comes before the snake's looks. A reputable breeder's gonna be my best bet.

[chairman]

I strongly dislike shipping reptiles. Every reptile I've had shipped to me has arrived just fine, and every reptile I have shipped arrived just fine. But the shipping companies lose my other packages all the time... So, I can understand a situation in which a small time breeder like myself would use Craigslist to sell well cared for animals.

That said, there was recently an ad on my local Craigslist that was selling leopard tortoises for about 2 or 3x what they should sell for. The pictures used were of radiated tortoises; the listed price was 5x less than you'd pay for a radiated. You just needed to place a small deposit to hold the tortoises.

For those unaware, radiated tortoises are regulated by USFWS permits. The tortoises cannot leave the state unless whoever transports them across state lines has a permit, and I think the buyer in that situation needs a permit too. So, marketing them as leopard tortoises could be an attempt to sell them across state lines without drawing the attention of law enforcement.

But, a Google image search showed that the tortoises belong to a guy in the Philippines. Same guy posted about radiated tortoises and leopard tortoises in a Facebook group, using the pictures from the Craigslist ad.

So, in all likelihood, it is a scam designed to get people to send the small deposits and then the tortoises will never materialize. It is a narrowly targeted scam for small amounts of money (scam-wise), but still, highly likely to be a scam.

If you were truly interest in the python then I'd recommend telling the seller the name and address of a public space that you'd like to meet at, like the parking lot of a Walmart, CVS, local police department, etc. That would provide the seller all the location information they need for a meeting and still keep you safe.

[craigafrechette]

I strongly dislike shipping reptiles. Every reptile I've had shipped to me has arrived just fine, and every reptile I have shipped arrived just fine. But the shipping companies lose my other packages all the time... So, I can understand a situation in which a small time breeder like myself would use Craigslist to sell well cared for animals.

That said, there was recently an ad on my local Craigslist that was selling leopard tortoises for about 2 or 3x what they should sell for. The pictures used were of radiated tortoises; the listed price was 5x less than you'd pay for a radiated. You just needed to place a small deposit to hold the tortoises.

For those unaware, radiated tortoises are regulated by USFWS permits. The tortoises cannot leave the state unless whoever transports them across state lines has a permit, and I think the buyer in that situation needs a permit too. So, marketing them as leopard tortoises could be an attempt to sell them across state lines without drawing the attention of law enforcement.

But, a Google image search showed that the tortoises belong to a guy in the Philippines. Same guy posted about radiated tortoises and leopard tortoises in a Facebook group, using the pictures from the Craigslist ad.

So, in all likelihood, it is a scam designed to get people to send the small deposits and then the tortoises will never materialize. It is a narrowly targeted scam for small amounts of money (scam-wise), but still, highly likely to be a scam.

If you were truly interest in the python then I'd recommend telling the seller the name and address of a public space that you'd like to meet at, like the parking lot of a Walmart, CVS, local police department, etc. That would provide the seller all the location information they need for a meeting and still keep you safe.

Good point about smaller breeders selling on Craigslist. I have heard that breeders are doing that, as well as selling less expensive morphs on Craigslist to avoid a $60 shipping charge for a $40 animal.

My instincts would tell me that they would identify themselves as a breeder rather than listing a single animal. But I haven't shopped Craiglist for animals, I see the ads while looking for enclosures.

Thanks for the good point!

[craigafrechette]

^^^ Correct. ^^^

I do hope he finds a good home, but in this situation cheap and readily available is not a good idea for me. It could have hidden sicknesses that while I have done research, I definitely don't have the experience to help with said sicknesses and it'd be the benefit of me and the snake to go to a more reliable owner. Unexpected things come with having any animal and I do expect to have issues at one point or another, which I plan to be prepared for.
Besides, while pieds are an awesome morph, the snakes health comes before the snake's looks. A reputable breeder's gonna be my best bet.

I think you're making the right call. chairman did bring up a good point though. But in any instance, I've learned through the years to trust my gut. Hearts and brains can be fooled, guts can't.

[dangernoodles]

I strongly dislike shipping reptiles. Every reptile I've had shipped to me has arrived just fine, and every reptile I have shipped arrived just fine. But the shipping companies lose my other packages all the time... So, I can understand a situation in which a small time breeder like myself would use Craigslist to sell well cared for animals.

That said, there was recently an ad on my local Craigslist that was selling leopard tortoises for about 2 or 3x what they should sell for. The pictures used were of radiated tortoises; the listed price was 5x less than you'd pay for a radiated. You just needed to place a small deposit to hold the tortoises.

For those unaware, radiated tortoises are regulated by USFWS permits. The tortoises cannot leave the state unless whoever transports them across state lines has a permit, and I think the buyer in that situation needs a permit too. So, marketing them as leopard tortoises could be an attempt to sell them across state lines without drawing the attention of law enforcement.

But, a Google image search showed that the tortoises belong to a guy in the Philippines. Same guy posted about radiated tortoises and leopard tortoises in a Facebook group, using the pictures from the Craigslist ad.

So, in all likelihood, it is a scam designed to get people to send the small deposits and then the tortoises will never materialize. It is a narrowly targeted scam for small amounts of money (scam-wise), but still, highly likely to be a scam.

If you were truly interest in the python then I'd recommend telling the seller the name and address of a public space that you'd like to meet at, like the parking lot of a Walmart, CVS, local police department, etc. That would provide the seller all the location information they need for a meeting and still keep you safe.

Meeting at a place is a way to stay safe, and I have seen some breeders on cl but I still have plenty of time before to decide what I'm gonna do. While I do trust that a reptile will arrive safely through ahipping, I'm not a huge fan of it because one,
I can't go see it personally prior to purchasing and two, it causes stress to the animals(which evantually they'll get over.) We'll see, since every now and then some one will put a snake up for sale on craigslist, and as time permits i'll be able to better judge what a healthy snake looks like (although I do have a good idea already, research can't hurt.)

[MDT]

when there are literally hundreds of options out there from private, well established breeders with multiple references, CL would be the absolute last place I would look (except maybe for PetsMart)... nope, I think I'd buy from PetsMart before CL.

you might find a diamond in the rough, but more likely you'll find mites, stuck sheds, and RI.

[dangernoodles]

when there are literally hundreds of options out there from private, well established breeders with multiple references, CL would be the absolute last place I would look (except maybe for PetsMart)... nope, I think I'd buy from PetsMart before CL.

you might find a diamond in the rough, but more likely you'll find mites, stuck sheds, and RI.

Yeah, that´s why I ask em´ for pictures and ask them questions, and see if I can handle/inspect the snake prior to purchasing. I can kind of tell if they are trustworthy or not if they can answer my questions, if they can´t, dodge the question, or don´t have a reasonable explanation for not being able to answer my question (e.g. I emailed one guy whose scale was broken, he sent me proof and I did a google search as well, and he seemed trustworthy overall- snake sold and I was not planning on buying anyway.) It´s more than likely I´m gonna buy from a reputable breeder, but we´ll see what the future holds.

Off topic, is it Pet Smart or Pets Mart? Hmm...