New to snake: Looking at a hognose (advice plz)

[ItsCalligator]

Hello all!

I am thinking of getting my first snake a western hognose as the title would suggest. While I have never owned a snake I did work in a pet store for several years so have a basic idea on snake keeping I.e. corn snakes and ball pythons. But that being said I know how important it is to do research and get advice so here I am. My plan is to get a male has a baby with a 10 gallon set up, substrate eco earth, two hides one side on the warm and one on the cool. A heat pad as well as a heat light, do I need both? Do I need uvb with it as well? I have watched several videos and done a bit of reading so have a idea on the temperament and basic care but have still come to you or for advice please give any and all suggestions looking forward to reading them.

Best,
.

[Scubadiver59]

IMO...skip the Hog and go with a Corn or King as a first snake. My Hognose has to be the worst snake regarding feeding. Not to mention he's a spaz!

[craigafrechette]

I have to agree, Hognose aren't a good choice for a first snake. Especially a juvenile male. They can be EXTREMELY finicky and difficult to get started on food.

My boy, Cosmo, came to me by accident because two previous owners could only get him to eat 3 times in over a year.
I was asked to help out and keep him for a few weeks or months until he was eating regularly.
I got him eating after a few weeks and unfortunately his previous owner had some struggles and never came back for him or returned calls/texts.
He's now doing extremely well and has been with me for about two and a half years, but it wasn't easy.

I started keeping snakes almost 20 years ago, so I had the experience and knowledge to get him going. The previous two keepers were both experienced with reptiles, but not so much snakes. So neither had the experience or knowledge to get him eating in over a year.

It's also extremely important to understand that Hognose are rear fanged and mildly venomous. Something else to think about...

[ItsCalligator]

I have to agree, Hognose aren't a good choice for a first snake. Especially a juvenile male. They can be EXTREMELY finicky and difficult to get started on food.

My boy, Cosmo, came to me by accident because two previous owners could only get him to eat 3 times in over a year.
I was asked to help out and keep him for a few weeks or months until he was eating regularly.
I got him eating after a few weeks and unfortunately his previous owner had some struggles and never came back for him or returned calls/texts.
He's now doing extremely well and has been with me for about two and a half years, but it wasn't easy.

I started keeping snakes almost 20 years ago, so I had the experience and knowledge to get him going. The previous two keepers were both experienced with reptiles, but not so much snakes. So neither had the experience or knowledge to get him eating in over a year.

It's also extremely important to understand that Hognose are rear fanged and mildly venomous. Something else to think about...
Thanks for the advice. That is a shame to hear, most videos and things I have read seem like they are easy enough. I was aware for the rear fangs and am I’m worried by that. Also how did you get him to start eatting, tuna juice on it’s food?

[craigafrechette]

Thanks for the advice. That is a shame to hear, most videos and things I have read seem like they are easy enough. I was aware for the rear fangs and am I’m worried by that. Also how did you get him to start eatting, tuna juice on it’s food?

No, I made a bunch of husbandry tweaks. The biggest thing being I put him in a tiny Tupperware container inside a 2 gallon tank. Then I kept it covered with a towel most of the day. I felt as if security was the biggest hindrance to him feeling confident enough to eat.
I focused on making him feel secure and luckily got him eating before even trying scenting.

Now he eats pretty consistently, but still takes breaks with seemingly no rhyme or reason to why or for how long.
The poor little guy was almost 2 years old when he came to me and only weighed 11 grams. Ugggh, but now he's a healthy boy and I love him to pieces. He's a fantastic snake with quite the little personality.

I'm not saying a Hognose 100% shouldn't be your first snake. Just make sure you put tons of research into it before deciding you're up for it.
Females are typically easier as far as eating goes, but get much larger than males. So I'm not sure if that sways anything for you.
It may be worth getting an adult male who is already well established.

Just thoughts...feel free to ask me any questions you have. I'll be happy to share my experience and what I know about Hognose. Or if you explore other species I may be able to help there too.

[ItsCalligator]

No, I made a bunch of husbandry tweaks. The biggest thing being I put him in a tiny Tupperware container inside a 2 gallon tank. Then I kept it covered with a towel most of the day. I felt as if security was the biggest hindrance to him feeling confident enough to eat.
I focused on making him feel secure and luckily got him eating before even trying scenting.

Now he eats pretty consistently, but still takes breaks with seemingly no rhyme or reason to why or for how long.
The poor little guy was almost 2 years old when he came to me and only weighed 11 grams. Ugggh, but now he's a healthy boy and I love him to pieces. He's a fantastic snake with quite the little personality.

I'm not saying a Hognose 100% shouldn't be your first snake. Just make sure you put tons of research into it before deciding you're up for it.
Females are typically easier as far as eating goes, but get much larger than males. So I'm not sure if that sways anything for you.
It may be worth getting an adult male who is already well established.

Just thoughts...feel free to ask me any questions you have. I'll be happy to share my experience and what I know about Hognose. Or if you explore other species I may be able to help there too.

I appreciate the advice and if you are offering I do have a a few questions. As I mentioned before I did work in a pet store for several years and have had several advanced fishtanks so I’m no stranger to the level of care and research animals require. I am however very nervous about working with an animal I’ve not ever personally owned so I am interested in an easier option I am interested in doing something a little more unique than a ball or corn snake though (corn snake is the fall back but personally just want something a little different. The hog snake held apell due to its small size and the fact that it was a local snake but that’s not necessarily a requirement it was just a nice touch. Do you have any suggestions for something. That would be a good beginner snake without being the same as every other beginner snake i.e. basic pet store? Max size would be ideal for a 25 to 30 gallon but for now what do I have to have a smaller snake something to fit in a 10 gallon for the first year or so.

P.s. ultimately I would like to do a bioactive cage but figured I would need a basic understanding of the animal first.

[ItsCalligator]

My wife was telling be about Kingsnakes, and the videos and reading I’ve been doing make them seem pretty easy.

[craigafrechette]

Have you looked into Kenyan Sand Boas? They're adorable little snakes too. Like Hogs females get considerably larger than males. My 2 1/2 year old male is in a 20 gallon long and that's his forever home.
They're really easy too.

Kings are hands down one of my favorite species. I absolutely love Kings. My first snake was a King, I've had several through the years and have one now. They are super easy husbandry wise. They're basically garbage disposals for eaters. I often joke that my King would eat a slice of pizza if I dangled it from tongs, as long as it's meat lovers! Hahahahha.
You've obviously got experience handling juvenile corns, Kings handle very much the same. So you already know how quick and flighty they can be, and they're phenomenal escape artists.
Kings can sometimes be nippy and probe to musking as juveniles, but as they gain some size their confidence grows and they mellow out.

I think Kings are fantastic first snakes, but if you're looking for something small like a Hognose a KSB would be worth looking into.

[ItsCalligator]

We talked about a KSB but decided we wanted something a bit more visible, other than that they are very cool animals. I think a King wouldn’t be a bad choice either but there does seem to be a small amount of a difference in species, at least as far as humidity and other basic needs. Is there one you would recommend over the others as far as staying small. I did know about the biting and Imagine the idea of being bit is worse that the actual bite, right?

[Scubadiver59]

I didn’t realize that you were concerned about the size of the tank...a King will hit five feet so you’d need a 40gal eventually (all my adult kings are in 40gal tanks).

If you’re dead set on getting a Hognose, get a female—all my female snakes are the best eaters...ALL of them. As Craig said, it can be a challenge with the Hognose. I too had to move my Hognose to a small tub to get him to eat regularly; in fact, I had to take him out of his early enclosures and put him on the carpet, put the small pinky mouse in front of him, and then, and only then he would much them down (and make a mess on my carpet).

I guess any snake can be a pain, but if you are space constrained, you might want to forgo Kings, Corns, or Garters due to the 5-6ft length they “could” reach. Just be prepared for some juggling of cage sizes, moving to tubs, changing prey in and out, etc. with a Hognose. I guess it could be the same for any other snake, but as you can tell, Hognose snakes are infamous for it.

And regarding the bites? Once you get your cherry popped it isn’t so bad. You might wince, curse, but you won’t flinch as much as you normally do; in fact, you might be able to read them better and avoid future bites. The teeth are needle sharp, but defensive bites are quick and it only sting for a second; but when you get a feeding response bite, have a credit card ready to slide underneath the top jaw to help release snake from your skin.

[ItsCalligator]

I didn’t realize that you were concerned about the size of the tank...a King will hit five feet so you’d need a 40gal eventually (all my adult kings are in 40gal tanks).

If you’re dead set on getting a Hognose, get a female—all my female snakes are the best eaters...ALL of them. As Craig said, it can be a challenge with the Hognose. I too had to move my Hognose to a small tub to get him to eat regularly; in fact, I had to take him out of his early enclosures and put him on the carpet, put the small pinky mouse in front of him, and then, and only then he would much them down (and make a mess on my carpet).

I guess any snake can be a pain, but if you are space constrained, you might want to forgo Kings, Corns, or Garters due to the 5-6ft length they “could” reach. Just be prepared for some juggling of cage sizes, moving to tubs, changing prey in and out, etc. with a Hognose. I guess it could be the same for any other snake, but as you can tell, Hognose snakes are infamous for it.

And regarding the bites? Once you get your cherry popped it isn’t so bad. You might wince, curse, but you won’t flinch as much as you normally do; in fact, you might be able to read them better and avoid future bites. The teeth are needle sharp, but defensive bites are quick and it only sting for a second; but when you get a feeding response bite, have a credit card ready to slide underneath the top jaw to help release snake from your skin.

Size is an issue but in 3 years we will hopefully have more room, as for now (the first year) id like to keep it in a 10 gallon possible 20 gallon in the next year. I am not sit on a hognose I was attracted to the size more than anything. And biting shouldn’t be that big of an issue once we get use to it.

[ItsCalligator]

I guess what this really comes down to is what a good snake for me might be, which in hindsight is probably what I should’ve labeled the post. At a 10 to 20 gallon in the first couple of years is ideal. Something without too too much care requirements. Does not need to be a ball python but something not super fast, a corn snake or something similar would be fine. We are open to any and all suggestions and are even keeping corn snakes in the running as they are a great beginner snake and do had several different morphs. But would also like to look at other options what do you guys think? And thank you so much for all the advice and help I know research is the number one thing to do so I appreciate having somewhere to field my questions !

[craigafrechette]

I have my King in a 4*2*2 enclosure and he uses every inch. He's pretty much done growing, so that's plenty of room. He does use every inch though.

You would have a few years before needing to go to a 40 breeder or something equivalent or larger.

Bites from juveniles don't hurt at all, usually don't even break the skin. Bites from adults don't hurt either, they typically just leave a U shaped line of tiny dots.

Also, I know some localities of Kings tend to stay smaller than others, but since I've always kept Calis I am not too sure which stay smaller though.

You are right about KSBs not being too visible too. My boy is out and about occasionally, but when he is he's just chilling in one position. The rest of the time I just see his little face poking out of the substrate.

My King and Hognose I frequently see out and about both day and night, since they're both considered diurnal.

You could always try to find a yearling or sub adult King to avoid some of the quick flightiness. But that would subtract from your time to upsize the enclosure.

[scobro]

What about something from the Antaresia family? They are dwarf pythons. Similar to maintain as a ball python but not as long or bulky and much better eaters and more sociable. Though not a colubrid, obvi.

[ItsCalligator]

What about something from the Antaresia family? They are dwarf pythons. Similar to maintain as a ball python but not as long or bulky and much better eaters and more sociable. Though not a colubrid, obvi.

Like a children’s python? Or what?

[scobro]

Like a children’s python? Or what?

Children's, Spotted or Stimson's. They are all about the same. The Woma is a little bigger but still pretty easy. The aforementioned three should be at or around three feet full grown.

[ItsCalligator]

I’ve been thinking about it a lot and I think we are going to end up going with a basic corn snake. They meet all our needs and I can get over my one hang up that they are to common. The question though is a 20 gallon long to large to start them in? I don’t want to buy a 10 gallon if I’m just going to transition it in a few months.

[ClockwerkBonnet]

As far as I know, 20 gallon tanks are fine for adults.

[ItsCalligator]

As far as I know, 20 gallon tanks are fine for adults.

But I’m talking about a baby. I feel it might be to big and we will 1- never see them and 2- the animal will stress out.

[scobro]

If you have a proper thermal gradient and enough hides - more than two - and clutter, a 20 gallon would work. You just have to be more diligent in the set-up and it may end up costing more money in the long run as you have to fill-in more empty spaces.

[PanUzasny]

I got a 40-gallon breeder for free and then decided to get a young kingsnake. I was also slightly worried about stressing the snake because of the large space. However, he seemed to do fine as he could borrow in the substrate and use the hides I provided. So far, he's doing really well - eating well and shedding well (after I finally got the humidity right). I don't see him out too often, except for later at night. I'm hoping that changes a but as he gets bigger.

Anyway, I agree with scobro that it definitely can be done, just pay attention to how the snake is doing in the larger space. Good luck!

[Scubadiver59]

I moved mine from a 40gal to a 20gal, where they still are two years later (I don't power feed), but they'll go to a 40gal in the near future.

For my Corn and King I had to reduce the substrate to 1" to ensure that I'd see them more often, yet provide them the ability to hide if they so desired. When I had 2" in the cages, I'd NEVER see them, and they didn't always come up for food.



I got a 40-gallon breeder for free and then decided to get a young kingsnake. I was also slightly worried about stressing the snake because of the large space. However, he seemed to do fine as he could borrow in the substrate and use the hides I provided. So far, he's doing really well - eating well and shedding well (after I finally got the humidity right). I don't see him out too often, except for later at night. I'm hoping that changes a but as he gets bigger.

Anyway, I agree with scobro that it definitely can be done, just pay attention to how the snake is doing in the larger space. Good luck!

[ItsCalligator]

I moved mine from a 40gal to a 20gal, where they still are two years later (I don't power feed), but they'll go to a 40gal in the near future.

For my Corn and King I had to reduce the substrate to 1" to ensure that I'd see them more often, yet provide them the ability to hide if they so desired. When I had 2" in the cages, I'd NEVER see them, and they didn't always come up for food.

That’s what I was thinking just keep the substrate low. Because obviously I want to see it and if it’s so small in such a large tank with so many Heights I can’t imagine I would and now it had me stressed. But it seems like a 20 would be fine for a newbo that’s what I was thinking just keep the substrate low. Because obviously I want to see it and if it’s so small in such a large tank with so many heights I can’t imagine I would and now it had me stressed. But it seems like a 20 would be fine for a newborn (or a few weeks/ months old)