What snake between these two do you guys recommend?

[Slippery Snek]

Hello everyone! So I am setting up a 40 breeder and after research I have decided to get a corn or king snake. I am learning toward a king snake but what is your advice? Are both these snakes good beginner reptiles?

[kudzu]

Both are good but I would recommend a corn snake. On average, corns are easier to handle both from the beginning and in the long run. They are usually just more laid back snakes than kingsnakes. Also, though both seem equally good eaters, kings can have a more, um, dramatic feeding response. I have to be careful that my king doesn't launch himself out of his enclosure at feeding time. :eek: He's really over the top with it.

The above are my observations from owning a kingsnake and a rat snake, working with my sister's cornsnakes, hearing stories from acquaintances and doing a fair bit of reading. However, I am still a novice with reptiles. My view of kingsnakes has been colored by my own "touch me not" kingsnake. I still love him but also really wish I could have gotten a cornsnake instead. (That is illegal in my state.) Still, as long as you don't want to do much handling of your snake, my guy would be a good first snake and he is apparently an outlier among kingsnakes. Most are not as anxious as mine.

I can't help but mention another type of snake to consider. Russian rat snakes are fantastic beginner snakes, even better than cornsnakes. The only disadvantages I can think of is the somewhat limited availability and size of the adult enclosure needed. They are very active snakes. You will see them out and about a lot, even when they are babies. Everything about mine has been easy and from my research, he is typical. As always though, YMMV.

Good luck with your decision making. I've not regretted getting my snakes, even my crazy king.

[craigafrechette]

My vote would be a King 100 times out of 100. I've kept both in the past, but absolutely LOVE Kings and no longer keep corns. Honestly, corns bore me.

Kings definitely have a voracious appetite and an intense food response, but out of the probably 500+ times feeding a King I've never been bitten or had any feeding related incidents. Just get yourself some decent length feeding tongs.

I've also been bitten about as many times by corns as I have Kings, and probably have 100 times more hands on interaction with Kings than corns. My point being, I've spent a TON more time with Kings, but have probably been tagged the same number of times by both. You do the math. Kings are often nippy when young, but I've never experienced a King that wasn't easily handleable once they gain some size, confidence and trust with with their keeper.

Both are very easy and forgiving as far as husbandry goes. Very basic and easy for beginners.

In my opinion, Kings are much more fun, look better (depending on morph) and are practically bullet proof as far as ease of keeping.

[WolfMum13]

Kings are fun to own, they get way more girth than a corn for sure. Both have similar personalities, more flighty to handle, more curious, and more out and about in they’re enclosure. I do want to say, Kings musk, so be prepared for that. It’s not that bad but yeah that’s the one negative to them I’d say. Also are you getting a young snake or old? Because a 40 breeder is going to be too big for a baby or juvenile snake. But yeah they are both awesome snakes, good eaters, and super forgiving as far as husbandry!

[WolfMum13]

Also, getting bit by either is nothing, like sandpaper touching your hand. I never get bit by my adult corn or my adult kings, but bitten by both when they were young. Literally felt nothing except saw some blood. So temperament wise they’re the same to me. Great beginner snakes. Go for whoever looks the coolest to you.

[Slippery Snek]

Kings are fun to own, they get way more girth than a corn for sure. Both have similar personalities, more flighty to handle, more curious, and more out and about in they’re enclosure. I do want to say, Kings musk, so be prepared for that. It’s not that bad but yeah that’s the one negative to them I’d say. Also are you getting a young snake or old? Because a 40 breeder is going to be too big for a baby or juvenile snake. But yeah they are both awesome snakes, good eaters, and super forgiving as far as husbandry!
Ok so I guess that may be my problem is the size of the tank. I pretty much HAVE to start off with a baby because my parents don’t want me to start off with a big one and I do get a little nervous handling larger snakes but if I got it as a baby I would just get used to it’s size and handling it as it grows. I also just want to observe it grow! I know baby snakes get nervous in a large enclosure, so what would be the recommendation here? Get a plastic tub with breathing holes and a heat pad on the bottom?

[Jim Smith]

Your first step should probably be to check to make sure that neither of these snakes are native to your state and then check to see if you can legally keep them if they are. Just a thought...

[craigafrechette]

Your first step should probably be to check to make sure that neither of these snakes are native to your state and then check to see if you can legally keep them if they are. Just a thought...

Very good point

[EL Ziggy]

I've never kept Corns but Kings are awesome snakes. They have really cool morphs, they're pretty esy to care for, and they're great eaters. I started my hatchlings in 40g tanks and had no issues. Just make sure they have plenty of hides and floor covering.

[Slippery Snek]

Your first step should probably be to check to make sure that neither of these snakes are native to your state and then check to see if you can legally keep them if they are. Just a thought...
Yeah they are definitely legal, pretty much every animal store around me sells them.

[Andy_G]

Corns. Kings are prone to biting and chewing randomly during handling, mistaking fingers for food. Others would share experiences stating the opposite, but that's mine, and recently that has been proven by concerns of other members that have been posted. They are also much more prone to musking, but this is normally something they grow out of.

[WolfMum13]

Hey! I would start with a smaller enclosure so the snake feels secure. I have my adult king in a 50 gallon enclosure. My baby king is in a 10. He’s 6 months. But the user above did it with no issue, Kings are very hardy animals and very confident. If the king is in a room with no noise and “action” he should be ok. Provide a lot of hides, so it can feel secure and tight. Both my kings and my corn like to be in their multiple hides. But they are awesome you won’t regret either, they are definitely the most active of my snakes and the most I see out cruising about. Great beginner snakes, you are really going to enjoy it.

[Slippery Snek]

Hey! I would start with a smaller enclosure so the snake feels secure. I have my adult king in a 50 gallon enclosure. My baby king is in a 10. He’s 6 months. But the user above did it with no issue, Kings are very hardy animals and very confident. If the king is in a room with no noise and “action” he should be ok. Provide a lot of hides, so it can feel secure and tight. Both my kings and my corn like to be in their multiple hides. But they are awesome you won’t regret either, they are definitely the most active of my snakes and the most I see out cruising about. Great beginner snakes, you are really going to enjoy it.
Ok I think I may take the risk of putting a baby in the 40. As for hides, what do you use? Coconut husks for sale on Amazon or something else? As for how many hides, would something like 3-5 work or is that too much or too little?

[phenyx]

I don't know why everyone thinks baby snakes need to be in small enclosures to feel secure. Hundreds of baby snakes hatch in the big, wild, world every day and do just fine with no enclosure of any size. Now, keeping a baby snake that needs ridiculously high humidity (like a BRB) in a small enclosure or even a plastic shoebox is a different matter because it's far easier to maintain high humidity in a small space.

[craigafrechette]

When it comes to Kings and corns I've never seen s problem starting them in larger enclosures. I've started juvenile Kings and corns in 20 wides and 40 breeders and never ran into any problems.

Corns and especially Kings are almost always good eaters. Just make sure you get an animal that is already well established and eating regularly.

If for some reason you have a hard time getting the snake to eat, then trouble shoot and potentially switch to a smaller enclosure until the animal is eating. You could even throw a Tupperware inside the enclosure in the right spot and get a bit of a heat gradient.

If you want to start with the larger enclosure I say go for it.

If it was another species I would be giving different advice. But you should have no problem starting a King or corn in a 40 gal

[eminart]

Hello everyone! So I am setting up a 40 breeder and after research I have decided to get a corn or king snake. I am learning toward a king snake but what is your advice? Are both these snakes good beginner reptiles?



Nothing wrong with either of them, although "corn snakes" are a species and "king snakes" are an entire genus. You didn't specify which species of king snake you're interested in, although most of the commonly available ones are pretty similar in behavior.

It's really just preference. Personally, I like rat snakes (which corns are) more than king snakes, as far as their behavior. Rats tend to be semi-arboreal where kings are strictly terrestrial and even somewhat fossorial. What that means, in my experience, is that kings are much more likely to be burrowed under the substrate a large part of the time. I've always hated that with any snake. But, my main joy in keeping snakes is setting up natural enclosures and watching the snake's natural behaviors in them. If you're like most people and just want a pet that you can get out and handle, you probably won't care about that.

[WolfMum13]

Yes! I use all kinds of hides really, log hides, coconut, skulls, anything will work. Also i put some of that reptile fake plant shrubbery in, my kings both go underneath them, they think I can’t see them, which is funny!!! They are fun curious snakes, a lot of personality!


Also with the small enclosures that just has been recommended by most breeders and herpotologists alike. They have seen snakes thrive better as far as feeding, stress, and shedding. And they aren’t wild snakes, they are captive snakes who live twice, triple the lifetimes of wild snakes because of the captive atmosphere you create for them.

[Andy_G]

I don't know why everyone thinks baby snakes need to be in small enclosures to feel secure. Hundreds of baby snakes hatch in the big, wild, world every day and do just fine with no enclosure of any size. Now, keeping a baby snake that needs ridiculously high humidity (like a BRB) in a small enclosure or even a plastic shoebox is a different matter because it's far easier to maintain high humidity in a small space.

Many baby snakes die in the wild for one reason or another...it's why so many are produced in a single litter. This would include predation in open spaces, which they have evolved to avoid. We could quite literally spend all day pointing out differences between conditions or situations encountered in their natural habitat compared to in captivity, so although I get what you're saying, I don't regard it as a fair comparison. Snakes are thigmotactic, meaning that they receive a lot of their peace of mind in regards to feeling secure from their body touching surfaces. It's one of the many reasons why people use grow enclosures, and why tight fitting hides always work best. If one were to provide a large space without appropriate cover, it would create a negative response from the snake of some kind. You can definitely use a cage as big as you like, but with that comes the possibility of missing some spot cleaning, possibility of the snake being less adept at finding food due to strong scent in an enclosed space that they may be unable to pinpoint if it has to be left overnight, more upkeep due to the necessity of having to offer additional hides, as well as sometimes issues achieving proper temps and humidity. It's largely speculative as to the level of enrichment actually offered to the animals when provided larger caging, and it certainly is more clear that it benefits the keeper rather than the kept, especially when it comes to nervous species/individuals. Bottom line: it's up to you as to what you do, but there's nothing wrong with using grow cages, nothing wrong with using larger more cluttered cages, unless your snake responds negatively to such.

[WolfMum13]

Many baby snakes die in the wild for one reason or another...it's why so many are produced in a single litter. This would include predation in open spaces, which they have evolved to avoid. We could quite literally spend all day pointing out differences between conditions or situations encountered in their natural habitat compared to in captivity, so although I get what you're saying, I don't regard it as a fair comparison. Snakes are thigmotactic, meaning that they receive a lot of their peace of mind in regards to feeling secure from their body touching surfaces. It's one of the many reasons why people use grow enclosures, and why tight fitting hides always work best. If one were to provide a large space without appropriate cover, it would create a negative response from the snake of some kind. You can definitely use a cage as big as you like, but with that comes the possibility of missing some spot cleaning, possibility of the snake being less adept at finding food due to strong scent in an enclosed space that they may be unable to pinpoint if it has to be left overnight, more upkeep due to the necessity of having to offer additional hides, as well as sometimes issues achieving proper temps and humidity. It's largely speculative as to the level of enrichment actually offered to the animals when provided larger caging, and it certainly is more clear that it benefits the keeper rather than the kept, especially when it comes to nervous species/individuals. Bottom line: it's up to you as to what you do, but there's nothing wrong with using grow cages, nothing wrong with using larger more cluttered cages, unless your snake responds negatively to such.



Definitely knows his business, and I am about it, very eloquently put, and perfect examples and predicaments :Wow: