My corn snake didn't eat her food

[Iseitaku]

I have two corn snakes Red and Ruby. Out of the two of them Ruby is the more "vicious" one when it comes to her food and she always strikes and strangles her food (dead hopper mice). Yet today I just was feeding them and Red ate but Ruby wouldn't touch her food.

I attempted VERY carefully to check inside her mouth for mouth rot but I couldn't get her to open her mouth.

Currently I held off her feeding today and will try again Thursday on their next feed day but i'm worried and id rather avoid an unnecessary vet appointment if it was just stress.

[EL Ziggy]

Welcome to the forum. A few questions for you. What are your temps like? Hold old and how large is your snake and how often are you feeding her? Lots of snakes will take unexplained food breaks from time to time. I've had snakes go months without food and without issues. As long as your temps are on point and the animal isn't losing much weight there's not much need to worry, especially only after one missed feeding.

[Iseitaku]

Temp is at 75, humidity is usually around 50 (at times it goes above 50 but that's due to my bedroom being in the basement. I run a dehumidifier all the time unless their in shed and never have to mist their tank.). They are both 5 years old and dwarfed because they were only fed once a week by the previous owner. I feed them twice a week and have had them for about half a year now almost.

[Andy_G]

One missed feeding is FAR from vet worthy, or even worrisome for that matter. :) Ziggy has given some good advice.

Is there any reason you choose to feed hoppers twice a week instead of adult mice once a week? It's hard for me to imagine that even a dwarfed corn snake couldn't take an adult mouse.

[EL Ziggy]

A cool side temp of 75 is fine but you should also provide a hot spot of 84-88. Once a week is a good feeding schedule for corns. I feed my adult colubrids every 7-10 days. I'm not sure how large the snakes are but it sounds like the prey size may be too small. At that age they should be eating jumbo mice or small rats. Can you post a picture of your critters and setup?

[Iseitaku]

Not from my phone but when I get home I can. They are being fed hoppers because they are dwarfed in size. The mice I feed them is slightly bigger than their biggest part of their body. It does have a temperature gradiant set up with a cold side and hot side

[Andy_G]

A cool side temp of 75 is fine but you should also provide a hot spot of 84-88. Once a week is a good feeding schedule for corns. I feed my adult colubrids every 7-10 days. I'm not sure how large the snakes are but it sounds like the prey size may be too small. At that age they should be eating jumbo mice or small rats. Can you post a picture of your critters and setup?

100%.:yes:

[Iseitaku]

Forum wont let me upload a picture so in the meantime to gauge how thick the thickest part of their body is its just over the thickness of an average grown man's thumb. In the meantime I will work on resizing an image of them and their enclosure. They are dwarfed for their size and age.

[Andy_G]

That sounds plenty large enough for an adult mouse, but it is of course hard to know without seeing pics or knowing their weights. Do you happen to have a weight on them?

[Iseitaku]

Here you go. Managed to resize it.

[Iseitaku]

So I just tried feeding her again but this time but still nothing. I'm getting worried its mouth rot but the thing is today I also had guys use pme to break up the concrete in the driveway and spread gravel also so it's possible she is nervous from the shaking however if that were the case red her brother wouldn't be eating either.

I am actually getting concerned now because this is not like her.

[Iseitaku]

That's the size of her food compared to her

[Andy_G]

Still no reason to be concerned. Sometimes snakes don't want to eat. Food size looks to be about right, actually. I'm wondering why you are thinking mouth rot could be the cause? No disrespect intended by the following questions, but how long have you been keeping snakes, and how long have you been keeping these corns in particular? Just so we have an idea of your experience level so that we can make appropriate suggestions.

[bigsnakegirl785]

If they're cohoused, it could definitely be stress. It seems like they're different sexes, too, so she may be gravid, which might not be in her best interest considering she sounds like a rescue.

Most of the corn owners I see recommend mice every 14 days for adults, I hardly ever see owners feeding their corns rats as adults. I very, very much doubt they're undersized just because they were fed weekly. They may have also been getting too-small prey items, or not eating as often as their previous owner claims...they could also be younger than the owner said/thinks. They may also have or had parasites, or just have genetics that keep them small.

[Iseitaku]

I should point out they weren't a rescue. He simply needed to find a new loving home because he was going to start working out of town. Also they have been with eachother for 6 years now and never had eggs (1 year with me). The only reason I saw it as no problem for the to be cohoused was because they have been for 5 years never separated and we're hatchlings together and I was informed incest was not a think snakes do. So if Ruby is gravid with eggs what do I do? I'm certainly going to get a second tank and separate the two.

[Andy_G]

Whoever informed you that inbreeding is something snakes do not do has absolutely no clue about what they are talking about and I would suggest that you avoid taking any further advice from them.

Her skin does look to be a bit stretched in the rear third based on that pic, so she very well may be gravid. If you pick her up in the middle, you should be able to see where the snake thickens up and eggs begin if she is in fact gravid. I suggest for you to do some independent research on what to do if you are expecting corn snake eggs and if there are any outstanding questions after you have done so then we are here to help. This information is readily available online as well as in books.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I should point out they weren't a rescue. He simply needed to find a new loving home because he was going to start working out of town. Also they have been with eachother for 6 years now and never had eggs (1 year with me). The only reason I saw it as no problem for the to be cohoused was because they have been for 5 years never separated and we're hatchlings together and I was informed incest was not a think snakes do. So if Ruby is gravid with eggs what do I do? I'm certainly going to get a second tank and separate the two.

They certainly will. They're very small, which may explain why they haven't bred yet. She may not be gravid, but it seems a good possibility, especially if they've recently had an uptick in food intake. Gravid snakes will also sometimes refuse food.

If she is gravid, keep an eye out for unusual behavior. She's so small I may worry about complications...if you have a trusted reptile vet nearby, I may keep them close at hand in case any emergency surgeries are needed. Reproductive surgeries seem to be common in corns from what I've noticed. They will also lay unfertilized eggs, even without mating, and that can result in becoming eggbound which is dangerous for her.

You can try to incubate the eggs, or find another use for them. Such as snake or lizard food, if you or someone you know has an animal that will eat them.

[Iseitaku]

So if she is gravid and eggs do show up. The issue is I have no egg incubator so would it be possible to have the eggs given to a local snake breeder? As interesting as it would be to raise snakes from hatching I do not have the time nor equipment for such a thing.

Also are you saying because of her size she may have issues laying the eggs? I do now a good vet who knows snakes who has seen both of them (ruby twice now).

[bigsnakegirl785]

So if she is gravid and eggs do show up. The issue is I have no egg incubator so would it be possible to have the eggs given to a local snake breeder? As interesting as it would be to raise snakes from hatching I do not have the time nor equipment for such a thing.

Also are you saying because of her size she may have issues laying the eggs? I do now a good vet who knows snakes who has seen both of them (ruby twice now).

If you can find one to take the eggs, that is a wonderful idea. :)

She may have trouble not only laying eggs, but also getting to the laying stage. Females can often experience complications during the reproductive cycle, such as becoming eggbound or otherwise experiencing sepsis or a blockage. Even big, healthy females sometimes die. Being small may increase the chances of complications, and the babies may fail to thrive even if she does lay the eggs and they hatch, just simply because she doesn't have the health and endurance to support the eggs. Things may also go smoothly, too, no way to tell.

In either case, I would certainly discuss the possibility of eggs and their potential impact on her with your vet. They will be able to do X-rays or palpations to determine if she is even making eggs, and if anything goes wrong, the vet will be better equipped to take emergency action in the case something does go wrong.

[Andy_G]

If you can find one to take the eggs, that is a wonderful idea. :)



Just be sure that if this is done, make sure you mark the top of the eggs and do not rotate them. Doing so would drown the embryo.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Just be sure that if this is done, make sure you mark the top of the eggs and do not rotate them. Doing so would drown the embryo.

Good tip! :)

[Iseitaku]

Just an update she did eat so according to the snake breeder I have chat with it was essentially snake puberty she went through. She is most likely not gravid, however now is the time to separate them asap. I have a second tan and 99% of what I need for the setup the only question is this to clean the items and tan itself what should I use? I am informed that I should avoid chemicals and be a germaphobe about what touches anything within their tank.

[Andy_G]

There is no such thing as snake puberty. I'm hoping that this isn't the same person that told you snakes won't interbreed with each other. If it is...find someone else to consult because you won't get the right info from them.

As far as cleaning is concerned there are a few options : F10 , chlorhexidine, diluted bleach with water, vinegar and water, mild dish soap and water, or just warm water by itself.

[craigafrechette]

There is no such thing as snake puberty. I'm hoping that this isn't the same person that told you snakes won't interbreed with each other. If it is...find someone else to consult because you won't get the right info from them.

As far as cleaning is concerned there are a few options : F10 , chlorhexidine, diluted bleach with water, vinegar and water, mild dish soap and water, or just warm water by itself.

I agree with this 100%.

Unfortunately, you're being misinformed and should find a more reliable source.
Also, it's important to cross reference multiple sources before believing anything. It's so easy for somebody to spout random nonsense, or post something online that is 100% false. If you can't find multiple sources to back up an argument, there's probably not much truth to it.

As for cleaning, F10 or a 10% bleach/90% water solution works well. But it's important to air dry until there is no remaining odor.

[Iseitaku]

There is no such thing as snake puberty. I'm hoping that this isn't the same person that told you snakes won't interbreed with each other. If it is...find someone else to consult because you won't get the right info from them.

As far as cleaning is concerned there are a few options : F10 , chlorhexidine, diluted bleach with water, vinegar and water, mild dish soap and water, or just warm water by itself.

It was a local breeder who told me this not the same previous owner

[Iseitaku]

"I would say it isnt likely, she was just having a coming of age fasting.
Basically breeding instincts kicking in." These were the breeders words exactly about Ruby not eating for a while. just for reference. "Snake puberty" was essentially just an easier way to put it.

[Andy_G]

With the snakes being 6 years old, it is entirely possible for seasonal breeding behaviours to kick in, including fasting. Hopefully that's what the breeder was trying to explain. At that age, it would not be the first year for it to have happened either. Also, if that's the case, breeding most likely already occurred if the snakes have been co-habitating this whole time, so she may still produce eggs in about 40-60 days. Not "out of the woods" yet.

I'm glad you'll be able to separate them soon.

[Iseitaku]

Yeah I didn't mean "literally" snake puberty just a simplified "human term" for it. Although I am somewhat sad they have to separate to be honest since they have been together all their lives, I think i'll at least keep the walls between the two clear so they can see eachother.

[Iseitaku]

One other question. I realize aerosols are probably a no go for the room they are in but is there any sort of air freshener system that is ok for snakes in the same room?

[Andy_G]

Yeah I didn't mean "literally" snake puberty just a simplified "human term" for it. Although I am somewhat sad they have to separate to be honest since they have been together all their lives, I think i'll at least keep the walls between the two clear so they can see eachother.

This is not a social species and they will not miss each other. To state or believe otherwise is projecting human characteristics and emotions, called anthropomorphism. It's nice for us to think that they have these feelings, but they do not. Some reptiles are in fact more social and do develop bonds to us as well as each other, but those species are very few and corn snakes are not one.

I think plug in air fresheners would work as would anything that emits scent without burning or spraying.Aerosols/candles/incense would be things to avoid using in close proximity of any reptiles. Charcoal air filters are used by a lot of people as well to neutralise any smells from waste, but with 2 snakes you probably don't need to do that. :)

[Iseitaku]

This is not a social species and they will not miss each other. To state or believe otherwise is projecting human characteristics and emotions, called anthropomorphism. It's nice for us to think that they have these feelings, but they do not. Some reptiles are in fact more social and do develop bonds to us as well as each other, but those species are very few and corn snakes are not one.

No I get what you mean just doesn't change the fact that these two were together since birth and at least in my opinion it is sad that they have to separate. I completely realize they won't likely miss each other due to them being a non social species (If I am not mistaken Garter snakes are a social snake but corn snakes are one of the many that are not). By no means am I imposing that they will miss eachother.

[craigafrechette]

No I get what you mean just doesn't change the fact that these two were together since birth and at least in my opinion it is sad that they have to separate. I completely realize they won't likely miss each other due to them being a non social species (If I am not mistaken Garter snakes are a social snake but corn snakes are one of the many that are not). By no means am I imposing that they will miss eachother.

They won't miss each other at all. They will finally be able to thrive on their own. You're 10000000% doing the right thing separating them.

[Scubadiver59]

Stop anthromorphisizing your snakes...they aren’t human, don’t have emotions, etc. Once you get past that, and you realize they exist to eat, sleep, poop, and occasionally mate, you’ll be taking care of your snakes in the best way possible. Keeping your two snakes apart means that they won’t have to compete for food, hide space, warmth (i.e. basking spots), etc., and their stress levels will go down.

Don’t stop loving them, but realize they won’t love you, any other animal, the way you do.

And regarding social habits...only when they’re mating or perhaps hibernating in the same hole are the only facts I know of.

No I get what you mean just doesn't change the fact that these two were together since birth and at least in my opinion it is sad that they have to separate. I completely realize they won't likely miss each other due to them being a non social species (If I am not mistaken Garter snakes are a social snake but corn snakes are one of the many that are not). By no means am I imposing that they will miss eachother.