coccidiosis

[kazz]

I didn't find vet thread (and it's very odd really). So I am writing here.

After necropsy of 1811 pet snakes 60% had parasites, 39.5% had helmints and 14.5% had amebas.
Из 1811 вскрытых змей у 60% были обнаружены паразиты. Из общего числа 716 змей (39,5 %) были поражены гельминтами и 263 (14,5%) - амебами.
Coccidiosis is a dangerous illness . Among snakes lethal end as a result.
10% deaths of snakes are caused with Coccidiosis and have no symptoms.
Coccidiosis it's attack of monocelled parasites.

In the internet I found a treatment but it's in Russian sorry.
Терапия. В качестве начальной дозы все змеи получают сульфадиметоксин (Trafigal), 90 мг/кг, перорально, в течение 5 последующих дней — половину дозы. Также рекомендуется сульфаметацин в начальной дозе 75 мг/кг, в последующие 5 дней по 40 мг/кг, а также формо-сульфатиазол (Socatyl) по 50 — 60 мг/кг ежедневно в течение 5 дней.

So does freezing birds and rodents kill this monocelled parasites ? How long it needed to be freezed ?

By the way at farms chickens and rabbits receive drugs to their food to prevent Coccidiosis. It's interesting can we add it to snakes food too ?

[ClockwerkBonnet]

Rodents kept on drugs can affect the snake eating them, and I doubt it does so in a good way.

[kazz]

I mean adding anti Coccidiosis drugs to snake inserting them into snake's food to prevent Coccidiosis.
Anyway the main point of a topic it's how freezing affect on monocelled parasites.

[Andy_G]

So does freezing birds and rodents kill this monocelled parasites ? How long it needed to be freezed ?



It will kill or reduce the number of protozoa, but oocysts (eggs) can withstand freezing temperatures. Freezing reduces the number of protozoa in a prey animal, but it doesn't kill everything. I believe I recall reading that they can survive up to as cold as -14C, but it's been a while since I looked.

[pet_snake_78]

There are drugs to treat it in snakes but those drugs aren't something you want to willy nilly give to reptiles. When you have a fecal done the eggs are detected if they are shedding. Based on the number of eggs, your vet will determine if the infection needs to be treated. Very low numbers generally aren't a concern, but if your animals immune system becomes weak or if you don't clean feces out immediately and thoroughly the numbers can easily skyrocket to dangerous numbers. Obviously a naturalistic enclosure is not good if you have parasite positive animals and I would treat in a simple setup before adding such an animal to one. Also these coccidia are not the easiest thing to get rid of and you need to do about 3 followup fecals over several weeks to make sure it is really gone. I have had animals test negative then positive even after treatment and watching for feces like a hawk. Based on my experience, I dont think captive animals are getting it from their food but they are simply either coming into the country with it or getting it from other captive animals or cross contamination by keepers. Positive animals should be services last, wear gloves, and wash hands between enclosures. In my case all animals that had were low numbers that were not considered a danger to their health but I treated to prevent cross contamination risks. However, I have found other parasites to be more common such as hookworms and fortunately are a little easier to get rid of.

[kazz]

I believe I recall reading that they can survive up to as cold as -14C, but it's been a while since I looked.
Don't usual refrigerator has a freezer -18C ? And how long can coccidia survive under -18C ?

[kazz]

pet_snake_78, we don't have snake vets at all.
In my case I am pretty sure my snake has coccidia via eating chicken.
The matter I took couple recently died chicken at a local market. And one was eaten by my snake. Next day I took 2 more at the same place and one of them was alive. I bring them at home one placed in a freezer and gave antibiotic to alive chicken, but it died ( After that I goggled symptoms and one woman ask aboy the same symptoms on vet forum and after she said she tested her chicken and it was positive about coccidia.

So I am going to start a treatment by myself.
Also these coccidia are not the easiest thing to get rid of and you need to do about 3 followup fecals over several weeks to make sure it is really gone.

1. What should I use to wash with ? We don't have reptile shops.I need something regular thing.
2. How should I wash branches and snake ?
Thanx for your help.

[Jim Smith]

Coccidiosis is EXTREMELY contagious and deadly in chickens. When I was a teenager, I worked at a farm that had several chicken houses, each with about 12-1500 birds in them. At 9am one of the farmhands walked into one of the barns that had chickens infected with coccidiosis. Then, without thinking he walked across the field to the next chicken house with 1200 'free ranging birds in it to check it out. Everything was fine. By 3pm that afternoon, the birds in the second barn were all dead or dying. He had tracked it in on the soles of his boots and the free ranging chickens had picked up and it spread through the remainder of the flock like wildfire. If coccidiosis is a problem where you live, I would find another food source (i.e. not chicken) for your reptiles. It's just not worth the risk. Coccidiosis is very difficult to disinfect from. Here's a link to an article addressing the issues with some recommendations. Best of luck and please keep us posted on your progress/success Coccidiosis (http://www.bobmckee.com/Client%20Info/Parasites/Coccidiosis.html)

[kazz]

Jim Smith, from your link
Most disinfectants do not work well against coccidia; incineration of the feces, and steam cleaning, immersion in boiling water or a 10% ammonia solution are the best methods to kill coccidia. Coccidia can withstand freezing.
So coccidia can survive with -18C ?
Can I wash a viv and the snake with 10% ammonia solution ? It seems to me it's very smelly

[Jim Smith]

It sounds like the 10% ammonia solution is probably your best bet. If I did this, I'd move all of my reptiles to another room, wash out all of the cages the best I could. Let them sit for 24 hours then go in an wash them all again with clean water at least twice. Let them dry out and see if the odor has dissipated. If it has, I'd still air it out for 24 hours before reintroducing my animals to the room. Also wash all of your utensils, water bowls, hides, hemostats, snake hooks etc in the ammonia solution and rinse them well in clean water, especially the water bowls and hides. Good luck and please keep us posted.

[kazz]

Jim Smith, what about 90% C2H5OH ?

[kazz]

There is chance my snake didn't catch coccidia but I have to treat her just in case.
Actually she took her food 3 days ago and she didn't piss or defecate yet. And today I gave her first drug. There is 5 drugs more.
I can't get how to wash the snake.

[Jim Smith]

I'm not sure if Ethanol will disinfect as well as the 10% Ammonia, but it may work okay.

[kazz]

Take a look. Looks like a week of freezing kills occidia. Am I right ?
https://i.imgur.com/G0loa9w.png

[kazz]

I gave to my snake a drug with 5ml of water using syringe with 5 cm pipe. Is it okay ?

[pet_snake_78]

I would not treat for coccidia "just in case". The most common drugs used to treat it are not harmless. In fact, my vet doesn't treat low instances of it. Low instances of coccidia species occur naturally in reptiles. The most important thing you can do is to immediately remove any feces. That protects your snake from a huge variety of parasites. The next thing you need to do is have a stool sample analyzed. There is very likely someone in your country who knows parasites. Look into your university or people who provide animal care services for farm animals. They won't be able to id the exact species but they will be able to give you an egg count and tell you what general family of parasites any belong to. furthermore, without stool samples you will have no idea if the treatment was effective or not. It's not something that goes away very easily and repeated treatments, extremely strict cage cleaning, and repeated fecal exams are needed to determine if the treatments worked or not. What country are you in, anyway? I would encourage you to practice very good cage hygiene, make sure to use proper hand washing, and if possible obtain disposable gloves and learn how to take them on and off (very important for them to be effective)
.

[kazz]

pet_snake_78, The next thing you need to do is have a stool sample analyzed.
I have read so many texts about cooccidiosis rigt now so I can't remember where but I definitely have read that tests of feces can be negative just bc cocci didn't get huge numbers yet . Today I saw snake's feces and it was first solid and at the end quite fluid. And that's a bad sign bc one of symptoms is diarrhea. I have never saw that type of feces before.

looks like humans can's get cocci from chicken, but cats and dogs can. (https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-to-human-cocci-spread.472409/) So it means can't get cocci from snakes too. I mean chickens' cooci.

[kazz]

One more text saying human can't get coocidia from reptiles (http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Reptile-Health/Ask-A-Vet/Diseases-Passed-From-Reptiles-To-Humans/)
Diseases Passed From Reptiles To Humans BY MARGARET A. WISSMAN, DVM, DABVP

Q: My bearded dragons have coccidia. Can they infect humans with this? Also, do they have any other diseases they can pass to humans?

A: Coccidia is fairly species specific, so there is no chance that you can become ill from their coccidian; however, you should always practice excellent sanitation, making sure to wash your hands after handling them. Also, during treatment for coccidiosis, please make sure that you are diligent in picking up any fecal material in their habitat so they don't infect themselves from their droppings.

Diseases that can pass from animals to humans are called zoonotic diseases. A "biggie" is Salmonella sp., a bacterium that can infect any species of reptile-or other animal, for that matter. While some Salmonella bacteria are found commonly in certain species, they can pass to other types of animals. Not all infected animals shed the bacterium all the time, so it is possible to get false negative test results from bacterial cultures. The safest way to think about herps is to presume that they are all infected with Salmonella. That way, you will always take care to wash your hands after handling your reptiles and will be sure not to clean any of their equipment in your family's kitchen sink.

Margaret A. Wissman, DVM, DABVP has been an avian/exotic/herp animal veterinarian since 1981. She is a regular contributor to REPTILES magazine.

Need a Herp Vet?
If you are looking for a herp-knowledgeable veterinarian in your area, a good place to start is by checking the list of members on the Association of Reptilian and Amphibian Veterinarian (ARAV) web site at www.arav.com. Look for DVMs who appear to maintain actual veterinary offices that you could contact.

[kazz]

Russians say (http://hvost.news/animals/rodents-health/koktsidioz-u-krolikov/) there is no disinfection tool to kill oocysts, only hot water above 80%.
Maybe I can use chlorhexidine to wipe a snake ?

Распространенность кокцидиоза также объясняется тем, что споры возбудителей практически невозможно уничтожить: их берут только высокие температуры (от 80°С), а дезинфекция совершенно бессильна.

[kazz]

So I have ф bad new.:no: I found study about freezing coccidia. My English is bad but looks like freezing to minus 80C it's not a problem for coccidia. Correct me if I wrong. I add study pdf file.
Summary
Oocysts, sporocysts released from oocysts,
and excysted sporozoites of Eimeria meleagrimttis
and E. tenella. were placed in media
containing 7% dimethyl sulfoxide, frozen to
-80 C at the rate of 1 degree/min, and stored
above liquid nitrogen for intervals up to 4
months.
Oocysts produced no infection when fed to
turkey poults or chicks. After 3 months, sporocysts
of both species produced infections, but
less than those produced by fresh oocysts.
However, inoculation of sporozoites that had
been stored for 4 months into the duodenum
or cecum of their natural host resulted in infections
comparable to those caused by fresh
oocysts.

So the only way to kill coccidia is heating snake's food above 80C. May be in a microwave oven 20-30 seconds probably.
Looks like buying frozen rodents or birds doesn't mean it can't infect reptile with coccidia.
There is one important question. Humans develop immunity to coccidia after first contact or illness. What's about snake ? Can they develop immunity as humans ?

[pet_snake_78]

Kazz, I think you are overly concerned about this coccidia thing. I feed baby chickens to snakes all the time and I've been using frozen chicks for years. The only animals in my collection that have ever tested positive for coccidia were wild caught ones that I purchased from importers. Whether the snakes just had it from days in the wild or whether they got it from tubs in the import facility Even in those cases and because I strictly kept their cages clean, not all fecals came back shedding eggs and those that did came back with low numbers. Like I said my vet did not think it was even required to treat but I only have it done it over cross contamination concerns. Now if you had a fecal come back with high numbers of eggs, you'd want to make sure the animal is not stressed by not having enough hides, not having clean water/cage at all times, or improper temperatures, and treat the parasite. If you have a wild caught snakes in particular it is a good idea to have a stool sample analyzed because it could have hook worms, nematodes, etc. Until you can find someone in animal care or university or vet to do that for you, I would just suggest checking daily for feces and thoroughly removing anything soiled by them.

[kazz]

pet_snake_78 I feed baby chickens to snakes all the time
I think you buy chickens grown up as snakes food. But I took chicken on a local market and I clearly saw symptoms of coccidiosis. I don't wanna wait until coccidia overflow my snake. I prefer cure in advance.
What about snakes immune system ? do snakes develop immunity to coccidia as cats and dogs do ?

[kazz]

BTW on farms there is coccidiosis vaccine for peroral using. Why ppl don't give it to their snakes ?

[kazz]

there is interesting Japan study about heat disinfection of coocidia.
At home we can do it with hot water: 70C + for 5 + seconds. Though,
salmonella (https://www.thespruceeats.com/tip-safe-cooking-temperatures-913410)is killed by heating it to 55C for one hour, 60C degrees for a half-hour, or heating it to 75C for 10 minutes. When it comes to killing microorganisms, both heat level and time affect the equation.