Feeding regimen for all constrictors!! A MUST read and would love some input+discuss

[BallBuster7653]

*sorry about typos and errors my keyboard is jammed up*

OK in posts before I have spoke about feeding my Suriname, whats over feedings, whats too little??? Well I have wrote a kind of thesis on the mathematics behind feeding all boids....I got most of my research from a really good book called "whats wrong with my snake?" Mostly this lie is how my formula began.... Large boids and most other snakes too in the wild have been scientifically proven on average to consume 4x their body weight in a year....in captivity an adult snake should consume about 2x its body weight per year due to th much much less activity if not in the wild...also not breeding.....this formula is for baby to adult pythons and boas it does not pertain to breeding or anything else that might factor in.

Ok so in this example I will use a Suriname red tailed boa. which I have a newborn now. Also know that I am just guessing or estimating these weights of prey and snakes ..its just the numbers im using sure they are not accurate I cannot predict what kind of size he will obtain...

So here it is......

first I wanna sy lets pretend you have a 12 ft 50 pounds retic.... 2x his weight a year is 100 pounds...devided by 12 months is about 8 pounds a month...4 pounds every 2 weeks.....OK so an adult 50 pound retic shuld get those meals ebery 2 weeks or month gowever you wanna feed......
\

Now back to our baby Suriname....so I have a male and he weighs 100 grams on the dot...since hes 28" and ony about 3 months old.....here it goes....just for the RED TAiL!!! ok so eoecting my male will be full grown adullt in 5 year and hit 6-8 ft.

so hes 28" so fro now until he is 4' he will get 1/3 every 2weeks....but i feed weeklys.....so he needs 1/3 of 100g which is 33 grams biweekly.... So I just fed him a 20 gram adult mouse...in another week helll get a 15g hopper I have so thats 35 grams ...its ok to be a little overbut not under....

now hes 4' and estimate of a pounds 452 grams..... so now hes goes to 1/4 biweekly....so about 110 grams bi weejky...remmember its all estimates not doing exact math here. So a 4; suriname is probably a year old so it would be ok to give him a small-medium rat that weighs 110 grams or give a weanling at 60 grams weekly...or here the tough part.....in a month he need 220g so at this size a large 220 g rat might be too big...but you could divide 210 by 3 and get about 70g so if you wnted to feed less often just give a small 70g rat every 10 days;)

ok now 5',,,probably close to 2 years due to slower growth than bci...so now 1/5 biweekly....lets say he weighs 3 pounds now.....

260 grams is about 1/5 of 3 pounds or 1356 grams....so a medium- large rat thats is close as possible to 260 grams bi weekly is perfect....and gain you can adjust...if you wanna go to monthy give him a jumbo rat 520 grams...

Now in this case a male Suriname will slow groth alot around 6 feet...most of them...I would love mine to get to at least 7- 8 ft but genetic......

Anyway once they are like 75% of their full growth you wanna lower the food intake....so at 6' lets say he weighs 7 pounds.... I would go to 1/7 every 2 weeks....so he gets a 1 pound rabbit evry 2 weeks... or a 2 pounder if he can take it once a month....sticking with rats?? give a 250 gram raat weekly or a jumbo bi weeklu....

So finally my boa is lets say 5 years old and he reached 7'!! whch is great and pretty much a full grown adult boa. SO adult of all BOIDS are 10% every 2 weeks....which goes back to rqual the 2x body weight per year....so my 7' suriname is 15 pounds lets say...Im sure they weigh much more than that but I have only had bci and mostly retics and burms in the past. So I feed a 3 pound rabbit monhtly or 1.5lb biweekly..

NOw im gonna do th sme rhing but for a ball python....you ned to adjust when to change the ratios by the type and gender of snake and adult size...

So our female ball python , we want her to get 4-5 ft.....and about 900grams...again estimate numbers...

*newborn (12-15")(60grams) 1/3 bi weeklys = 20g biweekly/ 10 g a week so a fuzzy/hopper weekly or 5 days

* after a year (30-36")(250 grams) 1/4 bi weekly...week=20grams adult mouse/rat pup./bi weekly 60 grams / small rat...10 days?? 60x2=120 grams a mont divide by 3 is 40 grams...every 10 dys..

*2 years (3-4 ft) (600 grams) - 1/5= 120g bi weekly, medium rat...../ weekly 60 grams, small rat

*once the ball ypthon is 4 ft, almsot ful grown go to 1/7.5....so our 4 ft ball python weights 900 grams....so 1/7.5 is about round up to 70 grams bi weekly...so just a smlal rat every 2 weeks....now IM wrong with the estimate wights cuz im sure a large 4 ft ball python rats more than that so you need to do your own forumula im just htrowing in random numbers sok.......

*finally our ball python is 3-4 years old...shes full frown she almost made it to 5' and she weighs 4 pounds..... so now that shes an adult she gets 10% every other week....so we can feed her a 180 graam rat bi weekly....or 90 grams weekly...or an adult can eta monthly and 360 grams so an adult large rat a month...a

*agin this is for constrictors that are not breeding and not sick and have optimal temps and humdiity and are thriving....This formula has got a thumbs up from bob clak, even told me I should right a small book or care sheet...but that in the future... I have used this with all my retic and burms and boas since i was 20 when I finally figurd it out....At 16 I got my first burm and I fed him well but definately overfed by far!!! took me a while to come up with a mathematical solution.....So if your not about numbers and math...aybe its not for you...but I love it!!! it gives me peice of mind that my animal is doing well, fed well ad heaalthy!!!\\


PLEASE i would love everyone's input and advice or your own feeding regimens, no arguments here just a friendly debate and feedback...thanks gys!!!. heres more better pics of my handsome little guy and his new setup..... I justy ordered a theromatsta of amazon to use for the het pad...sometimes inside the cave on the hot side on the left it gets up to 110 so I never used a thermostat before but hopefully that will help it not to go over 90-95...*****QUICK ?????, is it bad for the heat pad or lamps to be turned on and off all the time by the thermostat????, thanks so much guys! love this forum and to be able to share my boa with you all and to see all of your...like a boa family here;)

[BallBuster7653]

some more pics!!!:)

[MichaelRobinson]

Too convoluted. Really needs grammar fixed to be deciphered. Would suggest making your ideas clearer before writing your care sheet.

[phenyx]

Way too much math.

[BallBuster7653]

hmmm . Think I mentioned that Im usisng a rough keyboard when I began so lets not go by thatt...and if you cannot do the basic math required then this isnt for you. But if we relly care for our snakes, then would it really hurt to read this over and compare it to you own and discuss and compare?

To many owners just thrown in mice every week even to a 6 foot burm!! thats why so mny kids and ignorant people purchace these poor baby snakes then kil them by over or under feeding and complete neglect.....so this info is great for new owners and is a great guidline for all snakes young and old big and small!

[phenyx]

...and if you cannot do the basic math required then this isnt for you.

Excuse me, your condescension is not appreciated. I may suffer from dyscalculia (the math version of dyslexia) and breathtaking math anxiety, but I can do "basic math" just fine. X% of body weight at any given time is basic math. What you've presented, however, is an overly complex, convoluted, multistage, word-problem-from-hell that's giving me SAT flashbacks.

It's great that you did a thesis on this. You obviously put a lot of time and research into it. But what you've presented is way too complex and convoluted for practical use. Nobody has time to do all that formulaic math before every single feeding. It would take me half a day to do your calculations never mind the days and anxiety meds it would take me just to understand your system.

You wanted feedback. That is my feedback. Responsible snake owners come at ALL degrees of math competancy. Just because I can't understand your convoluted mess of a post doesn't mean I shouldn't own snakes.

[TRD]

I would like to see your "scientifically proven to eat 4x their weight in a year" reference to an actual scientific paper. Can you please post the name and/or (pref.) doi of that paper please? If that line comes from that book you mention, there should be a reference mentioned in it.

You know, if a human would eat 4x it's weight in a year in food, a 80 kg male would eat 878 gram of food per day. And we are highly active warm blooded mammals who are highly inefficient in their dietary needs compared to reptiles. We waste a great deal of our energy obtained from our food (60-80%) on digestion and keeping our organs going on a daily basis, and put an additional 10-20% into heating our bodies.

Seeing that you suggest that a boa is just barely more efficient than a human, I highly doubt the correctness of this research you mention and I would like to see it for myself.

[LightHawk]

So I read through your care sheet but I can't seem to make much of it.
I think its mostly because you aren't very clear in this care sheet.
Most of the math is explained very poorly which causes a lot of confusion on why you are even doing certain calculations.
Also when talking about a snake having to eat twice its body weight per year you seem to contradict yourself by first saying its a lie and then making an example using the same formula.
I would seriously consider restructuring your care sheet to improve readability, since its very unclear at the moment.
also just a small tip, virtual keyboards exist. having a keyboard that is stuck shouldn't be an excuse for having words simply spelled wrong.
and grammar wise there are multiple applications or extensions that can help with that.
I am not the strongest grammar wise myself, yet it could really use improvement.

[LightHawk]

TRD, here he says its a lie himself yet he also makes an example using the same formula so I don't know if its a typo or he is contradicting himself.

Mostly this lie is how my formula began.... Large boids and most other snakes too in the wild have been scientifically proven on average to consume 4x their body weight in a year....in captivity an adult snake should consume about 2x its body weight per year due to th much much less activity if not in the wild...also not breeding.....this formula is for baby to adult pythons and boas it does not pertain to breeding or anything else that might factor in.

So here it is......

first I wanna sy lets pretend you have a 12 ft 50 pounds retic.... 2x his weight a year is 100 pounds...devided by 12 months is about 8 pounds a month...4 pounds every 2 weeks.....OK so an adult 50 pound retic shuld get those meals ebery 2 weeks or month gowever you wanna feed......
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[TRD]

No, he mentioned that in captivity it is 2x, which is still crazy, so I want to see his references on which he based his thesis (which by lack of reference would be floored by any competent reviewer).

Also, was your thesis written for a degree in zoology or any other veterinarian education? Or was it an altogether different direction and you picked this as it was your interest? I could write a factually bullshit thesis on archaeology in Japanese, for a Japanese literature subject and still pass when my use of spelling and grammar is good.

[TRD]

Can floor his logic too...

Take a 4000 gr Ball python, with his logic in the wild it would eat 16 kg of food/year according to you.

A Ball python in the wild aestivates 3 months of the year underground due to high temperatures (this is also when they were collected, and hence the termite mount myth emerged).

So that leaves us with 9 months of activity.

Are we really suggesting here that a 4000 gr BALL PYTHON is eating on AVERAGE 818 gram per 14 days? Or a 2500 gr python is eating 511 gr per 14 days (that's a weaned rat or XL mouse every day in the wild)?!

Are we also suggesting that metabolism across snake taxa is the same, and always between 10-15% for adults? "and most other snakes too". Can you please list those "other snakes" and come with the supporting documents on those?

I'm all for good and well supported feeding regimen as most, if not all, snakes are massively overfed in captivity. But supply the foundation on which this is build, factual research data, differences between taxa and their metabolism, differences in prey item nutritional value (rodents, avian, reptilian, amphibian, etc prey - and hence different feeding frequencies and sizes), differences in behavior (aestivation, brumation, etc), and so on.

Just some losely and horribly substantiated post like this doesn't add any value, and doesn't come good to the hobby.

[BallBuster7653]

OK you guys are making it too difficult....TRD I mentioned alot of my research was from books especially "whats wrong with my snake" order in on amazon.....and I was not condescending anyone you made comments in grammar and math and I explained it in the beginning..

a 4000g ball python...an adult would need 360 g rat bi weekly 10 percent... forgot about in the wild and stuff I just said does not apply to breeding.....this isnt meant to be an argument....really simple...

all boids from birth 1/3 thei weight biweekly...its all based on bi weekly...then go to 1/4 then 1/5 then 1/7.5 then adults 1/10....

so each snakes different rates of growth and sizze varries when you switch to the next teir. SO.....

a male retic.....adult 12-16ft....

so for first 6 months maybe 1/3 then 1/4 then maybe by a year at 8 ft you do 1/5 and maybe switch to rabbits....do that until he reaches say 10ft then go to 1/7.5....then 1/10 when hes a few years old and at least 12-14 ft.... done deal....

ball python female.....

1/3- until shes like 2 ft.
1/4 until 3 ft
1/5 until 4 ft
then 1/7.5 until fully grown adult depends on each snake...then adults get 1/10 all biweekly..do the math to do monthly feeding s or weekly....its really that simple.... I have given examples and references as well as did several different snakes and comparisons. If you have specific questions about it or would like to discuss it, im here. But sorry I will not argue and also stated that you need to adjust for each different snake....breeding, sickness ect. I just read my post again and its perfectly understandable...if your not about math then its not for you.

if you read it and comprehend the formula you will see it works very well and I have many many snakes in the past to prove it all grown to adult hood. some breeding....I have used this formula for years, had beautiful snakes good weight, never missed or refused a feed and no problems. So I must be doing something right. So plz anything egtive to sya, dont say it...if you would like to give feedback thats welcome. thanks guys

[BallBuster7653]

and in the wild TRD a ball python would eat as much as possible in the 6 month of breeding season so yes its very possible that every 2 weeks a ball python is eating 600g prey bi weekly. im not sure about in the wild but thats not what this is about...its merely a standard guideline to help measure prey items against weight of the snake and knowing your feeding well.

[phenyx]

all boids from birth 1/3 thei weight biweekly...

Let's do some basic math.

My baby BRB is 30 gms. 1/3 (~33.3%) of his body weight every two weeks = 10 gms every 14 days, 20 gms a month, or 5 gms every 7 days.

The most common feeding guidelines I've seen say an average of 13% every seven days is healthy and proper for baby snakes. 5 gms is ~16.7% of his body weight. (Never mind the fact that I'm still struggling to get the little jerk to eat 2 gm pinkies on the regular.)

My baby BP (since you originally presented this as a feeding regimen for ALL snakes) is about 5 months old and weighs 217 gms. 1/3 of her body weight every two weeks = 72 gms every 14 days, 144 gms a month or 36 gms every 7 days. 36 grams is the size of a weaned rat. She's 5 months old and 2 feet long and by your system I should be feeding her a 36 gm weaned rat every 7 days or a 72 gm small rat every 2 weeks.

Even as a rank tyro I know that is too much food for either baby.

[TRD]

A book is not science, a book is just that...
Science is peer reviewed. You mentioned scientifically proven...
Your whole though process is based on 'scientifically proven eating 4x their weight a year and 2x their weight in captivity'

So I'm curious about that science, not about that book.

[StevenL]

One, if not my favorite subject in school was math. To this day I still enjoy it. In all of the years I have owned snakes, I have never viewed their care as "rocket science". I have learned through experience to read my snakes and provide for them by "listening" to their actions.

I admire all of your work but quite honestly if I have to put that much thought into feeding my snakes I think I would have calculators as pets, not snakes.

[MichaelRobinson]

I'm not sure that our math is the problem here BallBuster7653. Clearly, English isn't your first language. So, my suggestion is that if you think you have a good feeding guide here then you need to work on grammar so the rest of us can comprehend this. As someone who reads loads of dense AF material, I can tell you that your writing is the issue here. Typos' aren't your problem, your syntax is. I'm not trying to disrespect you, argue, put you down, etc. I understand that English is difficult as a second, third, etc. language but, your writing is incredibly difficult to follow, or as "Phenyx" said, a word problem from hell. (LOL) In my case, I couldn't finish it.
-Would love to read it when it's finished.
p.s. love your passion for snakes.

[BallBuster7653]

Lol ok thanks for the critique everyone. But let’s please look past the grammar and everything for a moment. Is does match up! And see as someone said it’s not this huge equation for me. It’s comes very natural since I’ve used it many years. So I’m not sitting there crunching numbers all the time.

Also about the 217 gram Ball python. First isn’t that kind of heavy for a 2 ft 5 month old. I’m not sure but anyway 36 g a week could be maybe a rat pup every 5 days or adult mouse 25 g every 5 days. Doesn’t need to be exact. That’s where your own judgement has to come in. Maybe go to 1/4 at that point. Ball pythons and other small snakes would go up the fractions by inches maybe a foot unlike the big guys that take long time and big leaps like from 1/4 to 1/5 on a retic would be about from 6 to 9 feet. On a female at least. But thanks for the feedback and I’d snyone has any questions throw em at me. Like maybe tell me some of your adult shakes length and weights and a pic and see if my formula is about what you feed.

[BallBuster7653]

Yea I do have an extreme passion for snakes. Always have I don’t know where it came from. No friends or family will even go near them. Usually I only like to have my one main snake and maybe a pair of breeder ball pythons. So for a while now it’s just me and the boa who is now getting ghostly looking which means it’s tome for soaking and shedding. I like to measure their weight girth length and each feeding down in a small book just to keep record.

But the biggest issue now is.... what should I name him!

[BallBuster7653]

Now that I’m on a real keyboard just wanna post this

Male Suriname red tailed boa:

Newborn to 4ft - 1/3 every 2 weeks.

I feed mine who is 100 grams and 28” about 3 months old an adult mouse 20 grams every week because some are smaller it averages to about 33 g every 2 weeks.

4-5ft- 1/4 every 2 weeks

5-6ft- 1/5 every 2 weeks

6-7ft- 1/7.5 every 2 weeks

7- adult size - 1/10 every 2 weeks

Now figure in there maybe all Suriname males don’t get 8 ft I may have to make the jumps sooner. I don’t want to overfeed. So that’s where you just need to keep record and keep and eye and use your own judgment.

Thanks all for listening to my long babbled misspelled thesis and equations lol. And NObody plagerize this! Don’t let me read it one day on amazon lol.

[bigsnakegirl785]

First of all, I find the mathematical logic of "snakes need X lbs of food per year" to be highly flawed. Their metabolic needs rise and fall throughout the year, depending on temps, breeding, and mostly likely a host of other, invisible (to current knowledge) factors. Also consider even tropical species of animal breed seasonally. This means that wild boas are going to have periods of time where they eat more heavily than the rest of the year, just by simple math of there being so much more, easier-to-capture prey. They will eat a bunch during the warmer, wetter seasons, and less during the cooler, drier seasons. You do not want to feed them like they would eat in the wet season all year round. In captivity, I prefer to hit more of a middle ground, where they will eat moderately most of the year, then heavily right before and right after a fast, and then sparingly or not at all for a short time. I fast my males, and my younger females, but as of right now I still need to determine if fasting is something I want to do for mature breeding females, and will depend on how long between seasons she goes before being bred again, I'm thinking minimum of 1-2 year rest time.

If I do not fast or reduce winter feedings, I don't just continue to pump as much food into them as I can as you're doing...it's simply not sustainable for long-term health. If you feed at the same rate all year round, you really need to be drastically reducing how much you're feeding your boa at one time.

You also don't seem very experienced with this species/genus...is this Suri your first boa? There is a lot of hypotheticals here without any real data, and unnecessary math coming out to an entirely too abundant feeding regimen.

A 4' boa should be closer to 800-1,000+ grams, 452 grams is more of what I'd expect of a 3.5' boa, my 3' male is currently 308 grams. My 4'2" male's last weight was 990 grams, and his heaviest weight was between 1,000 and 1,100, so I expect he'll put on some more weight again with more feedings. My ghost female is 4'+ and she's 830 grams, but is naturally thin-bodied.

I'm not sure if your weights, lengths, or both are off, but your boa is awfully light for his size.

5' at 2 years old is actually rather rapid growth for a boa, not slow. You'd be hard-pressed to get them to grow much faster than that. My feeding regimen is with this sort of growth in mind:

1 year: 2.5'-3'
2 years: 3'-4'
3 years: 4'-5'
4 years: 5'-6'
5-6 years: 6'+

And then the large boa sizes of 7'-8' at 6+ years old, and even longer for any larger sizes (if they were to ever reach larger sizes, boas over 8' are rare but not unheard of).

My 6.5' male is 8.5-9 lbs, gets a large rat 150-275 grams or a 1/2 lb rabbit every 4-5 weeks. The female is 7' and 10-13.5 lbs (need to get an exact weight), she only gets a large rat 150-275 grams or a 1/2+ rabbit every 4-5 weeks. My yearling boas are normally eating small mice every other week, my 2 year olds weaned rats every 2-3 weeks, and my 3 years olds (well will be in June) are currently on small rats.

Now, on the other hand I also don't strictly adhere to this 100%. Sometimes they may get bigger meals, sometimes they may be late, and I usually do not feed while in shed (which means up to 4 weeks of extra time between meals). If they get a larger-than-average meal, I either wait an additional 1-2 weeks to feed, or skip an entire feeding day, depending on how large the meal is. They don't always eat the same size of meal every time, and don't always eat at the same frequency.

I don't feed my snakes based off a formula, beyond how often I feed them. I mostly eyeball what I feed them, but I keep track of weights somewhat to aid in data retention for other keepers' uses, if I ever need to compare my regimens.

I would like to see your "scientifically proven to eat 4x their weight in a year" reference to an actual scientific paper. Can you please post the name and/or (pref.) doi of that paper please? If that line comes from that book you mention, there should be a reference mentioned in it.

You know, if a human would eat 4x it's weight in a year in food, a 80 kg male would eat 878 gram of food per day. And we are highly active warm blooded mammals who are highly inefficient in their dietary needs compared to reptiles. We waste a great deal of our energy obtained from our food (60-80%) on digestion and keeping our organs going on a daily basis, and put an additional 10-20% into heating our bodies.

Seeing that you suggest that a boa is just barely more efficient than a human, I highly doubt the correctness of this research you mention and I would like to see it for myself.

Can floor his logic too...

Take a 4000 gr Ball python, with his logic in the wild it would eat 16 kg of food/year according to you.

A Ball python in the wild aestivates 3 months of the year underground due to high temperatures (this is also when they were collected, and hence the termite mount myth emerged).

So that leaves us with 9 months of activity.

Are we really suggesting here that a 4000 gr BALL PYTHON is eating on AVERAGE 818 gram per 14 days? Or a 2500 gr python is eating 511 gr per 14 days (that's a weaned rat or XL mouse every day in the wild)?!

Are we also suggesting that metabolism across snake taxa is the same, and always between 10-15% for adults? "and most other snakes too". Can you please list those "other snakes" and come with the supporting documents on those?

I'm all for good and well supported feeding regimen as most, if not all, snakes are massively overfed in captivity. But supply the foundation on which this is build, factual research data, differences between taxa and their metabolism, differences in prey item nutritional value (rodents, avian, reptilian, amphibian, etc prey - and hence different feeding frequencies and sizes), differences in behavior (aestivation, brumation, etc), and so on.

Just some losely and horribly substantiated post like this doesn't add any value, and doesn't come good to the hobby.

No, he mentioned that in captivity it is 2x, which is still crazy, so I want to see his references on which he based his thesis (which by lack of reference would be floored by any competent reviewer).

Also, was your thesis written for a degree in zoology or any other veterinarian education? Or was it an altogether different direction and you picked this as it was your interest? I could write a factually bullshit thesis on archaeology in Japanese, for a Japanese literature subject and still pass when my use of spelling and grammar is good.


Their "thesis" seems to mostly be loosely based off of single, non peer reviewed pet care book, and their hypothetical estimates for snake growth. I'm doubtful this was an actual thesis as in a scientific peer-reviewed paper.

I'm thinking they mean just their own personal hypothesis, perhaps it's a translation error and they're using "thesis" incorrectly in this context, or they're attributing too much weight to their own methods.

It also appears this may be his first boa...

[kudzu]

If you would, please clarify something. When you say "all constrictors" are you referring to the boa genus? Just making sure you are not trying to apply this to all species that use constriction.

[Bandit]

BB, these are animals we're talking about, not machines. All of this math and whatnot isn't really necessary for this, and I'm curious as to the accuracy of the information. Should you stick to general guidelines for feeding? Yes, because over/underfeeding is never something you want to do. However, it seems a bit much to calculate out every meal for the rest of your snake's life. I'm glad your enthusiastic about this and putting in the work to make sure your snake is healthy, but you're making it overly complicated in my opinion.

On a final note, "all constrictors" makes this ridiculously over-generalized. I don't think you realize how many snake species use constriction as a means to kill their prey.

[Jim Smith]

I have followed this thread with some interest and I must admit some head scratching. When asked how much I feed my snakes, the answer is always, it depends. There are so many variables involved that I seriously doubt that any math formula will provide the correct answers. It depends on the individual animal, its feeding habits, is it preparing for shed?, time of year etc., etc., etc. I simply pay attention to each of my snakes and keep close records of their feedings, sheds etc. As a general rule, I feed my younger snakes about every 7-10 days and the mature snakes less frequently based on their specific needs. No math needed, just good husbandry and paying attention to each animal. Think of it this way. What if someone tried to tell you to feed your children both the frequency and volume of food simply based on a math formula. Not all kids are the same and quite frankly neither are all snakes, even those of the same species. I think that in an effort to simplify the process, you're actually over complicating it. Just my two cents worth.

[BallBuster7653]

Guys I think everyone is reading to far into this. If you are someone who feeds per every week or bi weekly and go by girth and things like that. Then this isn’t for you. This is more for someone like me who likes the math behind it and likes to have an equation for REFERENCE big snake girl! This of course with all our cold blooded friends has to be applied to each individual snake and their needs. They’re all different! I have over 10 years of keeping very healthy large constrictors. Never usually more than 2 at a time. I am not a collector. I just prefer usually one. With maybe a pair of balls on the side to breed lol. I have bred ball pythons MAny times. And a pair of burns I had from babies to 5 years old once. Unfortunately I broke my neck in a car accident 2 years back and had to move back home so it’s been a few years since I had any of my serpent friends :( but now I am back and I choose to put of all my favorite that’s a Suriname female will get to my favorite size and of course beauty that I would like to keep long term. Unfortunately I got a male but I love him just as much. That’s all hey had left. No listen just because I have a lot of experience does not mean I am perfect I have done a lot of trial and error type things I have taught myself I have read many many books and I have been on many of these forums over the years talking and getting many opinions by many other reptile lovers and keepers before I could finally have the pride and the being comfortable to say that I am an expert keeper I guess I would say nobody is an expert but I would say I know much more than the average person I’m sure we all do. I know what I’m doing put it that way.

But we are all always learning. Like right now. I have a question that is very amateur and im admin it because now like many Situations they are all different.

Now big snake girl. You cannot possibly feed your 9 pounds adult male Siri a half pound rabbit on average once a month!!! Cumon. You yourself said it’s not exact. I’m sure he is fed more. An adult male of 9 pounds or -approx 4000 grams at least a pounds binweekly or a 2 pounder once every 4-5 weeks. Maybe a little less depending how much you take him ou and how much exercise he gets. And if he’s a breeder that’s beyond me. I do not breed my larger snakes so of course my formula would dramatically change but still work. Remember from the beginning I said snakes in cpativity. Most constrictors need about twice their weight a year when they are adults. Not breeding! And getting moderate exercise. Not just left to go back and forth in a cage all day everyday. Soaking , handling. Letting them outstretch them scales is moderate exercise. Snakes that are breeding and things like that or are in the wild need more like at least 4x it’s weight a year. Remember I personally made this for him I’m sorry I made this formula so I have come up with these numbers and I’ll choose by weekly maybe for other people it will go easier weekly like I said it doesn’t mean you feed biweekly you could feed every three days every six days every 11 days whatever you want but whatever is right for the snake and whatever is right for the specific snack so of course you’re not only going to feed a full-grown sorry now I’m ready how about a once a month when it is still growing and being prepared to cycle for breeding or anything like that you have to add in all the factors and if that’s just too much for someone in your head then it’s just not the right guideline for you but I am saying for me. Remember I personally made this for him I’m sorry I made this formula so I have come up with these numbers and I’ll choose by weekly maybe for other people it will go easier weekly like I said it doesn’t mean you feed biweekly you could feed every three days every six days every 11 days whatever you want but whatever is right for the snake and whatever is right for the specific snack so of course you’re not only going to feed a full-grown sorry now I’m ready how about a once a month when it is still growing and being prepared to cycle for breeding or anything like that you have to add in all the factors and if that’s just too much for someone in your head then it’s just not the right guideline for you but I am saying for me many many years I have grown up on these forums asking questions and almost being yelled that because I’m a child asking so many questions but it’s gave me the knowledge I have today and I asked the same questions because I didn’t feel like I had an answer that satisfied me and maybe sometimes I still do but this formula satisfies me it’s what I’ve come up with all these years it’s a personal project of mine so please you know don’t anybody knock it too much because of his pride and joy of mine and keeping my none of you have read I have never put this formula on paper I have never wrote it out and actually took the time to maybe it doesn’t make so much sense but if you don’t put a lot of effort and thought into it just keep it simple and read the basic guidelines I was right and they basically will work for any constrictor

Someone asked before what I mean by an constrictor. Any in the Boid family. One
More time, although if anyone of you give me your snakes weight and age o bet you if I apply this logic to your specific snake that your feeding is similar if your doing things right. I just think after all of these years the past 10 years that I have owned different types of reptiles when serpents are my favorite that there has never been a very specific guideline when it comes to feeding and yes I totally get that everything is different and things like that but I mean a general rule of thumb besides the one by I always read and here and like 1 to 1.5 it’s a girth every 7 to 10 days things like that I’ve always found to be very vast and vague. So I like to come up with my own litter formula like this for my animals.

So I’m going to use bigsbake girl boa. If this male Suriname red tail does not breed and is a pet snake. An adult. And has the same temps and environment all year round. Then... and so I don’t insult bigsbake girl because this Is me putting my heart out there for everyone to stay like this is my I came up with this and I don’t want to be a friend and I wouldn’t wanna offend anyone else so just using you as an example let’s say I have a 6.5 ft. Boa and 10 pounds. Well going by my formula he needs 1/10 bi weekly. So simple. 1 pound rabbit bi weekly. Or a 2 pounder monthly. Or you can do a jumbo rat every 3 weeks. If it weighs 650 grams. Lol so many numbers it throws someone off. But a 10 pound adult constrictor needs twice its
Body weight a year. So 20 pounds. Divide by 12 months. About 1.8 pounds a month. Can round so like I said before 2 pounds a month. 1 pound bi weekly. So if feeding half pound rabbits it would need one a week. Not every 4-5 weeks. But you would be surprised that many keepers and breeders like us are feeding these amounts I’m saying but they just don’t waive their prey or there snakes and they’re not sure exactly of how much they weigh.

Ok sorry for all that. Lot of typing I tried to speak into my phone so my typing and spelling wouldn’t be too off by means of my ****** keyboard. I have lots to learn still !!! I am 29 years old So here’s my basic simple ?
So I just got my thermostat in the mail it works awesome so now the hot side of the cage never goes above 93° at that Saturday and I gave him a nice cave with some moss inside and I spray it down so he definitely has a nice humid box on the hot side as well as a hot side hide the ambient temperature in the cage on the day or about low 80s and low to mid 70s at night unfortunately I just found out during the day the humidity is only about 40% so my question is is that OK. It’s because of the light I use. I have always used overhead lamps. Even in Vivarium sand other methods of housing. They are mostly for Light and they are on a timer but they do give the slight increase of temperatures that they need during the day.
Now he does have a hide that’s at all times filled with moist spahgnum moss. And at night his humidity is around 60 percent. Plus times like right now for the day I start to notice the shed coming on. Until he sheds himself. I soak every night for 20 mins in warm water. As well as spray the whole cage down with warm water. Humidity gets high. Up to 90 percent if not more. So my ? And worry is. For now At least for the next year until I put him in a permanent vivarium his in a 30 gallon tank right now and my question is at least the one side is low humidity as low as 35% is that OK during the day as long as he always has his humid hide and of course during said he has the correct humidity cycles he’s a great snake he goes back-and-forth all day to his different temperatures I just got a temp gun to the temperatures vary all over but nothing goes above 95 and nothing goes below 75. S at least for the next year until I put him in a permanent vivarium his in a 30 gallon tank right now and my question is at least the one side is low humidity as low as 35% is that OK during the day as long as he always has his humid hide and of course during said he has the correct humidity cycles he’s a great snake he goes back-and-forth all day to is different temperatures I just got a temp gun to the temperatures vary all over but nothing goes above 95 and nothing goes below 75 ometimes at night ambient can g o to low 70s but he always has a 90 degree he’ll heat on a third of his whole cage from left to right. Here’s a pic of the cage and layout too. So my next formula is going to be for temperatures and humidity. Lol. Jk. That’s just too much for me. The good thing is enough.

In conclusion on my opinion and what I’ve come up with as far as the feeding schedule and regimen it is just something I use for myself that I’m putting out there to see if anyone else finds it helpful because over the years that I have always worried about how much and how often to feed eventually coming up with this chart is what gave me peace of mind and made me not always be constantly wearing about the numbers because I am a little OCD and kind of need everything to work out otherwise I’m up at night like thinking how much my snake should eat and I’m not even kidding LOL so that’s why I really appreciate this and I have came up with this from asking the annoying questions many many times over and over again over the past 10 years as well as reading a lot of published literature and talking to many experienced breeders and keepers such as bob black himself told me a couple years ago he would be interested in seeing this in detail. I can’t believe I didn’t look into that further but now I was thinking of maybe somehow putting a little care guide together but I don’t know if I want to make it for all contractors just boa constrictors or reticulated python which I have a lot of experience with or Burmese python I’m not sure if I should single it out or not but just a thought and I was just sharing my thoughts and formula with other experience keepers or even novice To add to the everlasting knowledge with hero’s. Everyday I learn something new. And I wouldn’t have it any other day.

Also yes I have only had one Suriname. And a green anaconda in the pay. And a Colombian red tail. They are this boas I have had. The Suriname got to 5.5 for in like 3 years but unfortunately I had to give her up because I had to leave where I was at. Also had a green anaconda and a bci for about a year.

I have only had retic and Burmese as adults in the past which is why I’m glad someone corrected me on the weight. Lol. Saying that an 8 foot sorry now I’m Bella weighs about 50 pounds really made me look like I don’t know what I’m talking about LOL thank you big snake girl now I know what they really get to I’m just thinking of a dog or a text and browns and how much more weight they put on and how much faster they grow so yes I am learning a lot about our contractors day by day

[BallBuster7653]

Heres the cage plus the cave with moss in it. The cage is so cool its from Exo Terra. I like it.. Wish they had giant ones for adults. But hes 28" so hes good for a year probably in here. then Im gonn a put him in a 4'x2'x2' vivarium from somewhere. hot side is the left side and on the right side is where im getting only the 40 percent humidity when the lamp is on.

[BallBuster7653]

Also boaGirl I am not about power feeding or getting thjem to grow fster t atll!!! I want a alrge snake but just s far as genetics and a good feeding regimen give, nothing more. BUt your saying by suriname after a year should be 2.5- 3 ft? hes 3 months old I think hes 28" they were feeding hoppers weekly...so IM guesssing 28" 3 months old? or is he older thn that? Hes 28" and 100 grams exactly. 1/2" girth. I would relly lik to be exct with when he ws born but of course LLreptile isnt sure. ..but anyway hes already almost 2.5 ft anf he cant be anywhere near a year old can he?

IM tinking...now hes 28" im thinking/estimating this:

now 28"- a year from now 4 ft
then 5 ft 2 ears from now.... 6ft from 3 years from now and in about 5 years i would hope for a 7 ft 10-15 pounds nice adult male suriname...thats my estimate..

but i base my feedings by their weight every month I record their weight girth and length and adjust to my regimen.

[BallBuster7653]

Also...I never bred boas but from this... a 20 pounds 8 ft female suri..which im guessing the weight... but if she needs 2x food per year but spends 2 months in brumation and then long pregnancy....lets say at most she spends 6 months without eating mostly or cutting back food. she should be eating a 2 pound rabbit bi weekly....but if shes not gonna eat fr 6 months then 4 pounds every 2 weeks is alot but think of how much fasting shell be doing....or if you have a female thta will eat during this time just give prey half the size...IM just thinking out loud lol. I do hope to breed them one day . I would like to do Ball python morphs but I need to wait until im stable, have my own place, and a good secure career. Im still living the night life right now and working bank during the day, like a double life lol, tripple life once I turn into my herp loving mode. Just love these forums guys otherwise I would have nobody that really shares my passion and understand this whole different side to me!!!:) xoxox

[BallBuster7653]

Sorry for all the posts but I was thinking I could another lamp and another bulb. Anight bulb but that’s a lot of plugs! Ugh. I like to keep it light. I could get a 75-100 watt nighttime bulb and just put a lamp in my room or something close to the cage on a time for light. I just want to provide enough light. I’m not really sure what to do.

Sorry I made this from feeding into a basic heating and lighting question but I just wanna get his cage right.

[BallBuster7653]

I heard Suriname enjoy cooler ambient temps. If that’s true and 72 degrees at night as ambient and always having the 90 hot spot and hide. And my day time temps are ambient of low 80s but the humidity is also bad during the day. It’s 35 during the day and 50-60 at night. I also must. So any suggestions for small tweaks I can make to make it perfect for him. Just so excited to have a snake again. It’s been years I just am refreshing myself to everything. Thanks everyone for the input and welcoming.

[bigsnakegirl785]

BallBuster, my issue does not lie with having an equation. My issue is that your regimen is power feeding. If having a percentage helps you to care for your animals, then great. Just keep in mind, that boas are not built to eat the same amount of food throughout the year, and be willing to adjust feeding during winter months or if your snakes become too chunky. I would also space out your feedings by a lot more than your current frequencies. If you're going to feed larger meals, you need to be feeding them even less often than what I normally suggest.

I personally prefer mid-sized meals, because if you feed this big huge meal to a boa, but space it out properly for them to digest the entire meal before eating again, that snake is not getting enough nutrition long term.

Alternatively, if you feed those big meals and you feed them too often, that snake is not getting enough time to fully digest their meal, and will be getting an influx of nutrition higher than they can properly deal with. A whole rat 10-15% of a boa's weight has more proportionate nutrition for a snake than an entire meal from a fast food restaurant would have for a person.

This is why, if I feed a larger-than-normal meal, I first wait extra long to offer the next meal, and then offer a smaller meal and wait the normal amount of time. The smaller meal and extra wait time offers balance to the overload of calories and fat that larger meal offers, but then they're also having normal sized meals and normal wait times between meals after that, so that they aren't going too long between meals. They make the most use out of the entire meal, without causing excess fat storage, which cannot always be determined by viewing them from the outside.

As far as a Suriname, BCC are a lot more sensitive to feeding mistakes than B(C)I are. They are much more prone to regurgitation if fed too much, or fed too fatty of prey items. Some individuals can handle it better, so it may just come down to fitness of their genes: maybe some lines are more hardy when it comes to feeding than others. But, the common theme I see concerning BCC is to feed them smaller meals more sparingly. Not more.

I have also weighed a fair bit of my prey items, and I get my prey items from sources that sell their feeders based off of weight. I have a pretty good idea of what I feed my snakes, and it is nowhere near what you feed your's. I have not yet kept a constrictor (besides my retic) that needs significantly more food than I feed my boa constrictors. All of my snakes get meals equal to or less than their girth on average. Sometimes they may get slightly larger meals, but besides in the beginning when I didn't know any better, I have never fed 1.5x the girth to any of my snakes (besides my retic).

For the past 4 years, I have fed my 6.5', 8.5-9 lb boa regular large rats (150-275 grams on average and largest I've had was 290 grams) and 1/4-1/2 lb rabbits. He gets 8-9 meals a year. That's 1,017-2,610 grams of food a year, which is 24-63% of his weight yearly, going off of his last recorded weight of 4,144 grams. That's based off the smallest weight of 113 grams (1/4 lb rabbits) if I fed that every single meal 9 times a year, and the heaviest weight of 290 grams if I fed that 9 times a year. He does not need more than that. Now, my female gets even less than that, considering she's quite a bit heavier than him, but gets similar-sized meals. I've only had her about 1.5 years now, though, so I am still tweaking feeding with her to find what's right for her.

My growing babies, on the other hand, do get more food. The first 9-11 months I'm normally feeding hopper mice (7-12) grams, at which point I have seen them sitting at 145-170 grams. The rest of the year they will be on weaned/small adult mice (12-17 grams). That is a little harder to reliably guess percentage of weight, since they at least double their weight during this time. But, those meals sit at 6-8% of their weight, on average. The largest I've ever fed to my young boas was 11%, but that was balanced out with an extra 2 weeks before feeding them again, and then their normal-sized meals afterwards. Assuming they got 6-8% the entire year, and ate exactly 26 times a year (that's on a biweekly schedule, I don't feed my boas weekly, ever), that's maybe 156-208% of their weight in that first year. If I'm correct in thinking you can just multiply 6-8% by 26 meals. If a different equation should be used someone let me know, I haven't taken math classes in a couple of years. XD

So, yes, baby boas do need more food, and I do give it to them...but 4x their weight a year? And for adults, too? Sorry, not buying it.


Also boaGirl I am not about power feeding or getting thjem to grow fster t atll!!! I want a alrge snake but just s far as genetics and a good feeding regimen give, nothing more. BUt your saying by suriname after a year should be 2.5- 3 ft? hes 3 months old I think hes 28" they were feeding hoppers weekly...so IM guesssing 28" 3 months old? or is he older thn that? Hes 28" and 100 grams exactly. 1/2" girth. I would relly lik to be exct with when he ws born but of course LLreptile isnt sure. ..but anyway hes already almost 2.5 ft anf he cant be anywhere near a year old can he?

IM tinking...now hes 28" im thinking/estimating this:

now 28"- a year from now 4 ft
then 5 ft 2 ears from now.... 6ft from 3 years from now and in about 5 years i would hope for a 7 ft 10-15 pounds nice adult male suriname...thats my estimate..

but i base my feedings by their weight every month I record their weight girth and length and adjust to my regimen.

Whether or not you realize it, the feeding regimen you are utilizing would be considered power feeding. It well beyond their metabolic need for food, and will quickly catch up to them.

It is very easy to get a snake overweight, and when care sheets and websites are throwing out these humongous weights for snakes...yeah, it can be difficult to tell your boa is overweight. If you think 30 lbs for a 6' boa is normal, or 50-60 lbs for an 8-footer, you're not going to be worried that you're feeding too much. I have even seen a 6' boa as heavy as 60 lbs, 6x or more the normal, healthy weight you'd expect for a boa of that size. No amount of exercise or warmer temperatures can make up for that gross amount of overfeeding. Snakes are incredibly, incredibly good at packing on weight, not so good at losing it.

As far as a guess on his age...really no way to tell. Boas are born at different sizes, and grow at different rates. If LLLReptile bred that snake and saw the birth in their facility, I see no reason to doubt its age. If they are not sure, then there is literally no way to even guess his age. He could be 3 months, he could be a year, could be 1.5 years.

BCC are generally considered slow growers, so 4' at 1 year, 5' at 2 years, and 6' by 3 years is some insane growth. You can get them to grow faster than that, but not by much. A boa does not need to reach 6' by 3 years old, and I'd argue growth like that is unhealthy, especially considering the feeding regimen being used in your case. I don't expect any of my boas to reach 6' before 5-6 years old, and they still have the chance to get 7'-8'+ with time, if they are meant to get that large.

You may find this podcast (http://herpnation.com/ceh3/) interesting (sorry, I don't think they have a translated version, but here it is if you want to give it a listen).

As far as breeding, I think you're going to run into a lot of heartbreak and problems if you try breeding a female feeding her the way you're currently doing. As I mentioned elsewhere, overweight/obese boas are at a higher risk of not breeding, slugging out, or dying while gravid. Some females make it through, but most of the instances I've seen of snakes dying from obesity have been currently gravid females. It is especially risky for them than a male or non-breeding female to be fed so heavily.

[BallBuster7653]

thank you Bignsnakegirl....Your absolutely right. After doing some research on specifically boas I am now seeing and understanding what your talking about. I will start being more mindful and watch my boa closely. I am much too used to burms and retics and I need to be patient and careful. I have read alot about regurgitation issues and prey thats too large. I am starting to question myself now. which is always good. I will say I absolutely need lot of work on my formula and especially how to type it out and make it comprehensible to others the way I comprehend it. So Ill definitely put that work into it and bring it back at some point. Thanks everyone a lot for their input.

SO now bck t my baby boy. at 100 grams and 28" how old is he?

Also im giving him a hopper 15(g) a week as of now...30 g bi weekly which is about my 1/3 rule but less often for him so I dont go more often than 1x a week for now. Ill switch to 1/4 when hes 4 ft.....for now unles things change...

[BallBuster7653]

I see whats your saying , I just need an estimation of his birthday....So im gonna go with 6 months old. Just gonna make his birthday Halloween so I can remember it. Wish I knew for sure but there it is. Hes shedding right now...just beginning to loose his opaque look so im not handling and spraying him down with warm water and soaking him everynight. Probably by Thursday he will shed.


Wow so now I feel like a newbie to Boas lol. I guess technically I am. I have never owned one snake more than 3 years. Mostly because of my life but now things are settling down and I would like to commit to one or 2serpents;) I have lost a lot of memory too since my accident so it almost seems like I am starting fresh. Its almost like I have to relearn things or at least refresh I appreciate everyone's help.

[BallBuster7653]

Big snake girl...If you wouldn't mind, I would really like your generl estimate of wht you would feed my male Suriname at 28" and 6 months old at 100 grams now how often and how much...and then maybe sy for the next year or 2 estimating growth, im curious;)

[bigsnakegirl785]

Big snake girl...If you wouldn't mind, I would really like your generl estimate of wht you would feed my male Suriname at 28" and 6 months old at 100 grams now how often and how much...and then maybe sy for the next year or 2 estimating growth, im curious;)

6 months seems a pretty good guess, if LLLReptile isn't 100% sure of the snake's birthdate.

Now, 100 grams seems awfully light for a 28" boa (that's about 50+ grams lighter than my boas of the same length), but if both your length and weight are correct, I would most likely go with either a hopper mouse (7-12 grams) or a small/weaned mouse (13-18 grams). Whichever is closer to the snake's girth while leaving a barely noticeable bulge.

I suggest these two sizes because my boas were eating hopper mice at 100 grams, but were eating small/weaned mice at 28". You will just have to feed them, and see which one is more appropriately-sized. If he was a little bit heavier I'd go ahead and say do 6-10% of his weight, but if he's on the thinner side that may not result in large enough prey.

I wouldn't feed him meals 1/3-1/4 of his weight his meal every time you fed him, and I'd wait a minimum of 3-4 weeks after offering those big meals before you feed him again. and feed the smaller 6-10% a couple of times before offering another larger meal. I'd normally feed a boa of that age every 2 weeks, so an extra week or a skipped feeding day comes out to 3-4 weeks.

How fast he will grow completely depends on how you continue to feed him. If you continue to feed him 1/3-1/4 of his weight, every meal, he could easily reach 5'-6'+ in the next 2 years. If you fed closer to how I feed, I would expect closer to 3'-4'.

[MichaelRobinson]

Feed your baby boa ONCE A WEEK. Big snake girl loves to tell people to feed a GROWING YOUNG boa sparingly but, any expert will tell you ONCE A WEEK. THIS IS THE INDUSTRY STANDARD. After one year feed every 10 to 14 days and through adulthood and as an adult, feed your boa " a meal that leaves a mild sized lump once every two to three weeks" (Vin Russo)

Heads up to the snake starvers: If you tell me that Vin Russo is wrong and you're right, i will probably just laugh.

[phenyx]

Ok, I have to say something. As a newbie who came to this site trying to learn how to feed my snakes, this constant arguing (and now, apparently, name calling) about feeding regimens across MULTIPLE threads is doing nothing but raising more confusion and stress and anxiety.

My baby BP skipped a feeding last week. She ate last night, but OH NO it was two weeks between feeds so is she starving because of it? No, I've been assured, she's not because snakes are built to go weeks/months without food.

My baby BRB has eaten exactly 2 pinkies (2 gms each) since I got him 4 1/2 weeks ago. OMG, is he starving to death? No, I've been assured, he's not because snakes are built to go weeks/months without food.

I read a thread from several years ago in which a baby CRB went a couple of months without eating a thing. Was it starving to death? No, because snakes are built to go weeks/months without food.

So if snakes are built to go weeks/months without food and survive just fine, how is it that BSG is "starving" baby snakes by feeding them every two weeks instead of every week? It doesn't track and is contradictory to everyone who told me that my baby BRB wouldn't starve to death if he missed 2, 3, 4 feedings while he was settling in.

I may not have much experience feeding snakes, but I do understand simple logic. If a baby snake can survive just fine without eating for several weeks/months while it settles in then it can most certainly survive just fine being fed every 14 days instead of every 7.

Obviously, none of BSGs boas have starved to death and even a newbie like me can tell from the pictures that they're *not unhealthy*.

We're all adults here. Name calling is juvenile and belongs on the playground.

[MichaelRobinson]

youre presenting a straw man argument. I never said a snake missing meals will starve I said that a young boa needs to be fed every week. missing a meal is one thing, missing 26 meals in the first year because you skip every week is another. your post about snakes missing meals settling in is irrelevant to this thread.

[phenyx]

I never said a snake missing meals will starve

Your exact words, and the name you called BSG, were "snake starver".

Other than that, all you've done is scream "feed every 7 days because Vin Russo says so!". So I googled him. I found no articles written by him detailing feeding regimens for boas anywhere on the web (including on his own commercial website!) That was unexpected considering you passed him off as the Be All, End All ultimate authority on Boa care. He doesn't even have care sheets on his website. Yes, he has a book on Boa care on Amazon, but there's a lot of boa care books Amazon.

What I did find online was this article (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/Interesting_facts_about_Boa_constrictor/Boa_constrictor_Care/Feeding_Boa_constrictor/Feeding_and_Defecation). This is the exact first paragraph of the article:

"How often should the snake [boas] be fed? There is no general answer for this question. As mentioned previously, neonates [emphasis is mine] must not be fed more often than once every 10 to 14 days (must, not should!)." (The second paragraph did say to go to weekly feedings every week during the snakes second year, but I'm assuming that's a proportionally appropriate food amount split into 4 monthly feedings instead of 2. Hello math.)

I also found this (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/Interesting_facts_about_Boa_constrictor/Boa_constrictor_Care/Feeding_Boa_constrictor) on another page of the site. I'm referring to the orange box with the heading "Important Note:" TL;DR version: It talks about rampant overfeeding and obesity in pet boa constrictors and supports everything Big Snake Girl has said on that subject.

So after reading all this, and after reading BSG's thread that went into minute detail and photos regarding her feeding regimen for each of her beautiful, healthy animals as well as her other posts detailing why she feeds that way, I'm far more inclined to follow her instructions with my BRB (which were to feed every 7-10 days) than yours.

[TeamSlitherin]

Your exact words, and the name you called BSG, were "snake starver".

Other than that, all you've done is scream "feed every 7 days because Vin Russo says so!". So I googled him. I found no articles written by him detailing feeding regimens for boas anywhere on the web (including on his own commercial website!) That was unexpected considering you passed him off as the Be All, End All ultimate authority on Boa care. He doesn't even have care sheets on his website. Yes, he has a book on Boa care on Amazon, but there's a lot of boa care books Amazon.

What I did find online was this article (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/Interesting_facts_about_Boa_constrictor/Boa_constrictor_Care/Feeding_Boa_constrictor/Feeding_and_Defecation). This is the exact first paragraph of the article:

"How often should the snake [boas] be fed? There is no general answer for this question. As mentioned previously, neonates [emphasis is mine] must not be fed more often than once every 10 to 14 days (must, not should!)." (The second paragraph did say to go to weekly feedings every week during the snakes second year, but I'm assuming that's a proportionally appropriate food amount split into 4 monthly feedings instead of 2. Hello math.)

I also found this (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/Interesting_facts_about_Boa_constrictor/Boa_constrictor_Care/Feeding_Boa_constrictor) on another page of the site. I'm referring to the orange box with the heading "Important Note:" TL;DR version: It talks about rampant overfeeding and obesity in pet boa constrictors and supports everything Big Snake Girl has said on that subject.

So after reading all this, and after reading BSG's thread that went into minute detail and photos regarding her feeding regimen for each of her beautiful, healthy animals as well as her other posts detailing why she feeds that way, I'm far more inclined to follow her instructions with my BRB (which were to feed every 7-10 days) than yours.

THIS!!! I am very sorry that your first exposure to this forum is the silly bickering that you have mentioned. I assure you this is not the norm. There is plenty of evidence to suggest over-feeding your snake will dramatically shorten its lifespan. There is a well-known breeder who had 10 female boas, all power-fed in order to get them to breeding size in 18 months. They all died by the age of 4. People don't think much about the effects of over-feeding their snakes because the damage is not as visible as something like scale rot. It's internal.

As for a baby boa "missing meals" for its first year...that's ridiculous. Boas in the wild aren't offered food every 7-10 days. I have a young Dumeril's Boa who, even as a baby, absolutely refused to eat any more frequently than 12-14 days. Then I spoke with a local breeder who told me he had a Dumeril's hatchling who didn't take it's first meal until it was 7 months old. 7 months. As Ziggy mentioned earlier, he had a ball python go off feed for an entire year with no ill effects. My Dumeril's is only a year and a half old and I'm lucky if she takes a meal every 3 weeks....then she'll fast for 8 more weeks.

Eventually, I just got another snake and he gets all her cast-offs ;) In all seriousness, though, these feeding recommendations are irresponsible. I think the OP is realizing that, as well. And clearly, you have the deductive reasoning skills to come to your own proper conclusions about what's best for your animal. Kudos to you!

I hope your BRB continues to feed regularly, and that if he doesn't, you don't worry. As long as his husbandry is good, he won't starve himself. Because snakes are built to go weeks/months without food. :)

[TRD]

Many breeders feed their snakes to breeding size asap because for them it's business. Breed faster, morph loses less money. Sad but true. Following breeder feeding advise is not healthy in the long run. They basically push their animals to the limit of possibilities (seems to be a human trait to do that to about everything we interact with :P).

Boa's are infrequent feeders. Their bodies are made for this purpose, as is their digestive system. Large means, sometimes, like all Boidae and Pythonidae.

Large constrictors eat large prey, with a smaller relative mass to snake mass (ie- a juvenile may take a 40% of snake weight feeding, while an adult may take a 10% feeding (but would be a much larger feed)). See for example this study;
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1365-2435.1998.00179.x

I laugh at people coming up with names of Breeders and believe those people who ignore reptile physiology. Literally all breeders I spoke to know little about the actual snake, and only know localities and morphs.

[TRD]

Another study, may interest you;
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/316734

About energy conservation during the fasting periods of infrequent feeding snakes.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Feed your baby boa ONCE A WEEK. Big snake girl loves to tell people to feed a GROWING YOUNG boa sparingly but, any expert will tell you ONCE A WEEK. THIS IS THE INDUSTRY STANDARD. After one year feed every 10 to 14 days and through adulthood and as an adult, feed your boa " a meal that leaves a mild sized lump once every two to three weeks" (Vin Russo)

Heads up to the snake starvers: If you tell me that Vin Russo is wrong and you're right, i will probably just laugh.

That may be the industry standard, but it doesn't mean it's correct. I have said on multiple occasions that 7 days is perfectly acceptable up to 1 year old, just unnecessary.

On Vin Russo's advice...his podcasts, videos, and blogs more closely resemble the way I feed. I suspect that quote is from his book, which was published in 2007 and I've noticed his feeding regimen has changed somewhat. Based off of interviews I've seen and podcasts I've heard.

Also you need to keep in mind Russo also advises seasonal feedings...he advises fasting young boas (completely withholding food throughout the entire cold season), from their first winter, and feeding more heavily during the wet warm season. Most of the year, he's feeding his boas sparingly.

I personally wait until the boa has had their second winter before reducing feeding by half over the winter, and do not implement fasts until their 3rd winter. From there, I pick and choose if I fast or reduce feedings depending on body tone and whether or not I plan on breeding them.

He also advises in his book anywhere from 14-21 days, depending on the size of the meal, the snake's sex, and whether or not it's breeding that year. He also says monthly feeding for non-breeding (adult) pet boas to be acceptable. My feeding does not stray far from this, I just outline my feedings a little more precisely than he does for my younger boas.

Plus, the resources phenyx have provided you.

Ok, I have to say something. As a newbie who came to this site trying to learn how to feed my snakes, this constant arguing (and now, apparently, name calling) about feeding regimens across MULTIPLE threads is doing nothing but raising more confusion and stress and anxiety.

My baby BP skipped a feeding last week. She ate last night, but OH NO it was two weeks between feeds so is she starving because of it? No, I've been assured, she's not because snakes are built to go weeks/months without food.

My baby BRB has eaten exactly 2 pinkies (2 gms each) since I got him 4 1/2 weeks ago. OMG, is he starving to death? No, I've been assured, he's not because snakes are built to go weeks/months without food.

I read a thread from several years ago in which a baby CRB went a couple of months without eating a thing. Was it starving to death? No, because snakes are built to go weeks/months without food.

So if snakes are built to go weeks/months without food and survive just fine, how is it that BSG is "starving" baby snakes by feeding them every two weeks instead of every week? It doesn't track and is contradictory to everyone who told me that my baby BRB wouldn't starve to death if he missed 2, 3, 4 feedings while he was settling in.

I may not have much experience feeding snakes, but I do understand simple logic. If a baby snake can survive just fine without eating for several weeks/months while it settles in then it can most certainly survive just fine being fed every 14 days instead of every 7.

Obviously, none of BSGs boas have starved to death and even a newbie like me can tell from the pictures that they're *not unhealthy*.

We're all adults here. Name calling is juvenile and belongs on the playground.

They're worried about "stunting" the snake without truly understanding this species' needs. They are used to an industry where baby boas are being fed every 4-7 days, and adults every 1-2 weeks. When the vast majority of people are doing this, when literally any other pet we own has to eat at least a few times a day or per week, it can be difficult for people to understand just how little snakes need to thrive. Even owners who are used to the lowered food intake of snakes still tend to overestimate how much they need to feed them.

It can also be difficult to gauge what is healthy growth when:

1) growth is so extremely variable even within individuals in a litter

2) most people are vastly overfeeding their snakes, and as a result the average snake is growing much more rapidly than is healthy

Your exact words, and the name you called BSG, were "snake starver".

Other than that, all you've done is scream "feed every 7 days because Vin Russo says so!". So I googled him. I found no articles written by him detailing feeding regimens for boas anywhere on the web (including on his own commercial website!) That was unexpected considering you passed him off as the Be All, End All ultimate authority on Boa care. He doesn't even have care sheets on his website. Yes, he has a book on Boa care on Amazon, but there's a lot of boa care books Amazon.

What I did find online was this article (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/Interesting_facts_about_Boa_constrictor/Boa_constrictor_Care/Feeding_Boa_constrictor/Feeding_and_Defecation). This is the exact first paragraph of the article:

"How often should the snake [boas] be fed? There is no general answer for this question. As mentioned previously, neonates [emphasis is mine] must not be fed more often than once every 10 to 14 days (must, not should!)." (The second paragraph did say to go to weekly feedings every week during the snakes second year, but I'm assuming that's a proportionally appropriate food amount split into 4 monthly feedings instead of 2. Hello math.)

I also found this (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/Interesting_facts_about_Boa_constrictor/Boa_constrictor_Care/Feeding_Boa_constrictor) on another page of the site. I'm referring to the orange box with the heading "Important Note:" TL;DR version: It talks about rampant overfeeding and obesity in pet boa constrictors and supports everything Big Snake Girl has said on that subject.

So after reading all this, and after reading BSG's thread that went into minute detail and photos regarding her feeding regimen for each of her beautiful, healthy animals as well as her other posts detailing why she feeds that way, I'm far more inclined to follow her instructions with my BRB (which were to feed every 7-10 days) than yours.

Thank you, I haven't been feeding my snakes this way for years (while still being quite active in multiple reptile communities, mind you) for no reason. I have experienced healthy, growing animals in my own collection, and have been seeing more and more evidence for a more mindful approach to feeding our snakes (not just boas, but that's where my interests mainly lie so that's what I focus on lol).

(I also suspect the weekly feedings during the second year to be advised because boas grow the most during their second year.)

[MichaelRobinson]

All i have to say is im leaving this forum. you guys and girls are so set in your ways and some of you (phenyx) are so numb to the boa world youve never heard of vin russo. talking to people on this forum is like talking to people about politics.

[MichaelRobinson]

oh and phenyx, vin russo IS the "Be All, End All ultimate authority on Boa care" just so you know.

[EL Ziggy]

I don't understand what's so complicated about feeding these critters. It ain't rocket science people and arguing about something so subjective is a waste of time. Find a regiment that works for you and your snakes and stick with that. Obviously these animals can go a long time without food so starving them is pretty hard to do. I do agree that a lot of animals in captivity are overfed but there's plenty of middle ground. Most snakes that are fed every 1-3 weeks will be just fine. That applies to hatchlings and adults. I don't go for the 4-6 week feeding intervals but that's just me. Younger snakes use most of their food intake for growth. Juveniles and adults don't need quite as much food so it makes sense to slow down their feedings a bit as they mature. I think we sometimes make things harder than they have to be and take some of the fun out of it. I enjoy all my animals and I feed them whenever I want. I even give them snacks between some of their meals. Most of my snakes eat every 2-3 weeks now that they're adults but I fed them all pretty liberally (every 5-10 days) for the first year or two. That's what works for me and my small collection. Someone else may do things totally differently and that's fine too. To each their own. Live and let live.

[kudzu]

All i have to say is im leaving this forum. you guys and girls are so set in your ways and some of you (phenyx) are so numb to the boa world youve never heard of vin russo. talking to people on this forum is like talking to people about politics.

People are often more receptive & open minded when the one presenting the info does so in a way that is respectful and civil.

[phenyx]

oh and phenyx, vin russo IS the "Be All, End All ultimate authority on Boa care" just so you know.

'Scuse me. I must go and add a picture of Vin Russo to my household altar so that I may worship at the feet of the master. :rolleyes:

[EL Ziggy]

Let's play nice everyone. We can disagree without being disagreeable. ;)

[BallBuster7653]

Don’t leave Michael Robinson. Your right.

First of all if your breeding your snake than the formula I made needs to be adjusted I have one for that too. And whoever asked me where they can see where I came up with the wild voids are 4x their weight a year. And 2 in captivity. It’s bit sineehvjf I can show you. You need to buy the book called “what’s wrong eith my snake.
Anyway I’m feeding my boa who’s 100 grams and 29” a hopper mouse weigh 12g only every 5 days. That’s 1/3 body weight every 2 weeks. Guys my formula is based in a 2 week thing. So if you wanna do it weekly. It would be 12.5 percent weekly to come to 25 percent hi weekly for a boa around 4ft which I go to 1/4 at. Once he is 180 grams he will get a small tat which is smallest I can get at pet store. It will weigh around 60 grams. So he will eating 1/3 his weight every 2 weeks. I will feed more often once he is growing.

Also bigsbake girl. My male is 27” and 100 grams. He’ll seitch to rats soon. And by time he’s a year. Another 6 months he will be about 3ft. So your right. 4 ft after 2 years. 5-6 ft 3 years 3-5 years 6.5-7.5 ft for male Suriname.

So until my boa is 4 ft. Could be 1-1.5 years. He eats 1/4 biweekly. So let’s say I’m guessing he weighs 500 grams. He gets medium rat about 125-150g. Every 2 weeks so that’s about 1:5 r biweeklym. . A small tat weekly. Same thing. Anyway things are going well with my guy. Formula working great. I am concerned for one thing. He has not defecated in past 2 weeks. His humidity is perfect. He shed in one peice and has had 3 feedings so far with me

[BallBuster7653]

Spenx. Listen. Message me on here. I’ll help you out

Get yourself a scale for your ball pythkn. How old is he how much does he weigh. Length?
Ball python male
Newborn to 1 year- 1/3 body weight bieeekly 15% weekly
1 years-2.5 ft 1/4 bu weekly.
2.5 ft-3 ft 1/5 bu weekly.
3 ft- 3 years old. 1/7.5 Bi weekly.

After that 10 percent bi weekly rest of its life