Fish and carpet pythons

[kazz]

So this is my experience.
I googled and find out carpets stolen fish from an aquarium.
I was feeding my python with fish about 4 month.
As far as my python don't eat rats or piece of chicken I was sewing a small quail and it works. The same trick ppl do when try feed carpets with rats or Cobras with rats.
My python was in shed every 2-3 weeks.
Several month ago I stopped fish diet bc of thiaminase.

Today I searched on site thiaminase table and didn't find.
Please tell me does this fish has thiaminase or not ?
Unfortunately I don't know what is a fish i English but I know in Latin Gobiidae.
Thanks.
http://belorechie.net/uploads/posts/2014-06/1402396132_bich.jpg

[EL Ziggy]

I've never read anywhere that fish were part of a carpet pythons diet. In the wild and in captivity they're known to eat primarily mammals and birds. If you choose to feed fish to your carpets that's your choice but I'd strongly advise other keepers NOT to give fish to their carpets.

[trailblazer295]

I can see a snake hunting live fish if it were to escape and was hungry but I don't believe it to be part of their natural diet. I would offer day chicks and quail along with rodents. I'm also looking at very small rabbits to add to the mix.

[kazz]

EL Ziggy, trailblazer295, look king cobras don't eat rats in wild but keepers feed them with rats sewing a piece of dead snake. A bit later most king cobras start eat rats.
So what the problem do the same with carpets ?

My python don't eat fish only, also she it quails and chicken.

So my question is actual about those fish and thiaminase in it.
By the way
https://i.imgur.com/zdxcvmD.png

[DJC Reptiles]

EL Ziggy, trailblazer295, look king cobras don't eat rats in wild but keepers feed them with rats sewing a piece of dead snake. A bit later most king cobras start eat rats.
So what the problem do the same with carpets ?

My python don't eat fish only, also she it quails and chicken.

So my question is actual about those fish and thiaminase in it.
By the way
https://i.imgur.com/zdxcvmD.png

People feed king cobras rats because that is a complete diet. I don't know if feeding fish would be a good idea, but it's up to you. If your feeding quail and chicken along with it, that's fine, but like with previous posts, I advice people to stick with rodents if you can get them. I am also not sure what your asking...

[kazz]

People feed king cobras rats because that is a complete diet.
So why king cobras don't eat rats in wild nature ?

I am also not sure what your asking
There is a fish group called in Latin Gobiidae.
http://belorechie.net/uploads/posts/2014-06/1402396132_bich.jpg

I wanna know whether they have thiaminase or not ?

[StevenL]

[QUOTE=kazz;1033205]So this is my experience.
I googled and find out carpets stolen fish from an aquarium.
I was feeding my python with fish about 4 month.
As far as my python don't eat rats or piece of chicken I was sewing a small quail and it works. The same trick ppl do when try feed carpets with rats or Cobras with rats.
My python was in shed every 2-3 weeks.
Several month ago I stopped fish diet bc of thiaminase.

Today I searched on site thiaminase table and didn't find.
Please tell me does this fish has thiaminase or not ?
Unfortunately I don't know what is a fish i English but I know in Latin Gobiidae.
Thanks.
http://belorechie.net/uploads/posts/2014-06/1402396132_bich.jpg[/QUOTE

I hope next weeks question isn't should I feed my snake canned Spam.

[toddnbecka]

Most likely that species of fish has never been researched for thiaminase.

[Cobra89]

I hope next weeks question isn't should I feed my snake canned Spam.

Maybe save a MB or two of server space preventing a new thread, clear it up now and just go with no, no you should not feed your snake canned Spam.

Imagine tho? No wryly little rats to deal with, no freeze/thaw business..Just crack open a can of spam, drop it in there and watch them go to town. You'd never trigger a feed response, unless you wanted to coat yourself in spam.

[kazz]

Cobra89, StevenL, your flood doesn't help. So stop it!

[kazz]

Most likely that species of fish has never been researched for thiaminase.
but this fish live in every river or sea.
where is a full table about thiaminase.

[kazz]

Ok. This is what I found. (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14634980903136453?src=recsys&journalCode=uaem20)
Addition of round gobies to the prey community of Lake Ontario and potential implications to thiamine status and reproductive success of Lake Trout
J. D. Fitzsimons , M. Clark & M. Keir
Pages 296-312 | Published online: 19 Aug 2009
Download citation https://doi.org/10.1080/14634980903136453
Abstract
The addition of round goby to the Lake Ontario prey fish community can, because it appears to lack thiaminase, ameliorate the effects of a diet high in thiaminase-rich alewives associated with a thiamine deficiency in Lake Trout. However, the effects of round goby predation may negate such effects. We conducted studies to assess the proportion, by weight, of round gobies in the diet of contemporary Lake Ontario Lake Trout and predicted its effect on egg thiamine concentration, and early mortality syndrome (EMS) and growth retardation, two indicators of thiamine deficiency. We compared these parameters to that for the historic prey community, as well as possible future diet scenarios with progressively greater proportions of round goby (e.g. 50, 75 and 100%). To assess the combined and separate effects of the thiamine deficiency we used a modeling approach to determine the effect of EMS (70%) typical of Lake Ontario Lake Trout, growth retardation, density of Lake Trout egg (e.g. 100, 500, 1000, and 5000 eggs m−2) and round goby (e.g. 1, 9, 18, 35, 75, 150 gobies m−2), three separate durations of round goby residence on Lake Trout spawning habitat (e.g. 30, 60 and 213 days), and at either a shallow water or deepwater temperature regime. Eight years after first invading Lake Ontario, the proportion of round gobies in Lake Trout diets remains low, although the highest observed (25%) would result in significant amelioration of the thiamine deficiency from past conditions. Modeling indicated that the negative effects associated with round goby predation on eggs and fry could easily exceed any positive effects resulting from amelioration of the thiamine deficiency by a diet containing round goby. The effects of goby predation were found to be dependent on density of both Lake Trout eggs and round gobies, and while predation effects were minimally affected by temperature regime, they were highly dependent on the period of round goby residence on Lake Trout spawning habitat.
So.
1. This type of fish is in Latin Gobiidae. In English is goby.
2. Am I right that gobies don't have thiaminase based on the article above?
3. round goby is a freshwater fish and I gonna buy sea gobies. Is it matter about thiaminase between freshwater goby and sea goby?

[DJC Reptiles]

So why king cobras don't eat rats in wild nature?

I wanna know whether they have thiaminase or not ?

Kazz,

1. King cobras do in fact eat small mammals in nature, and this consists of rats. Sure the majority of their diet are snakes, but they definitely do eat rats. Some king cobra keepers provide ball pythons as food, which they believe to be rather tasty. However, if one were to provide snakes in a consistent way, it would be a very expensive and inconvenient diet. King cobras will take rats happily, and it works as a better, and more complete diet then snakes, it is also more inexpensive to the keeper.

2. I will try to answer your question the best I can. First off I want to mention that the name you provided Gobiidae is a genus name, not a species name, and as such there are many more then just the round goby that you provided. There are also sand gobies, mudskippers, black gobies, that all belong to the genus Gobiidae. The article you provided only provides information of round gobies in the Lake Ontario area, and the levels of thiaminase is going to differ every place these fish can be encountered. The article is saying, lake trouts have an abnormally high amount of thiaminase, and their predation on the round goby has caused significant reduction in the thiaminase in their body. So yes, in the Lake Ontario area, the round goby lacks thiaminase. Unless your getting all of your round goby from Lake Ontario, I cannot say how high the thiaminase will be in different areas of the world.

3.Yes, the levels of thiaminase will differ from fresh water gobies to salt water gobies, because they are different species.

[kazz]

DJC Reptiles, ок. What about adding thiamine to fish ? Is it an option ?

[DJC Reptiles]

Technically yes by feeding thiamine high foods such as beans and liver to fish, but I strongly advice against it. There will be no way to be sure how much thiamine your snake will be ingesting.

[kazz]

Nope I mean injection of B1 to fish before feeding. b1 is selling in a pharmacy.

[DJC Reptiles]

Again, it is going to be impossible to know how much your snake is receiving. There are also no studies that I know of that specify the amount of vitamin B1 Carpet pythons should have in their bodies. Any attempt to try to make an artificial diet, will usually result in the death of the animal. This is why reptile keepers feed rodents so much, because it is a complete diet, and nothing has to be substituted.

[kazz]

DJC Reptiles
We can find out how much the fish contain of B1, then add to fish injection of B1. Anyway lack of B1 has symptoms and if there is we can add.
Yea yea I know it's a hemorrhoid but Ukraine don't sell frozen rodents ((

[DJC Reptiles]

I do not know of anyway to measure B1... It will vary with each individual fish. The reality is, even if you figured out some way to consistently measure vitamin B1, the introduction of a large amount of B1 at once to the fish will probably kill it. If the fish is already dead, how are you supposed to know how much B1 to add? An excessive amount of the vitamin will probably not be good. I honestly don't know how to help you at this point, I don't know how you can measure an animals thiamine levels.

[Scubadiver59]

Sounds like a business opportunity if you ask me!

If there aren't any frozen prey business it sounds like you could make some money if you can find somewhere to breed the mice & rats, find a way to dispatch/euthanize them when they reach the appropriate sizes, and then a vacuum seal packing system.

You could be making some money my friend!

DJC Reptiles
We can find out how much the fish contain of B1, then add to fish injection of B1. Anyway lack of B1 has symptoms and if there is we can add.
Yea yea I know it's a hemorrhoid but Ukraine don't sell frozen rodents ((

[kazz]

Scubadiver59, in Ukraine are very few snake keepers. And very low life level with average salary 185$. So it's not an option for business

[kazz]

Scubadiver59 as far as I know overdose of water-soluble vitamins is not danger.