Late Holiday Purchase...

[Scubadiver59]

Made a comment over in the Types of Green Snakes? (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/116037-types-green-snakes.html) thread, and even posted that one picture from a reptile dealer in Las Vegas; however, after reading a lot about that dealer's shop, etc. I decided to forego that purchase.

BUT, I did find another snake that looks great, is a female, about 6' in length, and is a beauty by virtue of the picture posted in Kingsnake.com by Joe Switalski.

The snake in question, and I'm sending money as soon as I get home, is a Malaysian Red-tailed Green Rat Snake (Gonyosoma oxycephalum).

I'm psyched and can't wait to receive it! It'll have to do with a 4'x2'x19" enclosure until I can get either a 6'x2'x21" or one of the big boxes I've been looking at, an 8'x3'x30" (casket) case.

[kudzu]

Beautiful!!

[Bandit]

Beautiful snake. All this talk of them is really making me consider one for the future.

[Albert Clark]

Healthy looking big girl too. Nice.

[Roman]

Really nice animal.

However, I have an issue with your intended enclosure size.

Gonyosoma is an active snake which likes to climb, so you should provide it with a tall enclosure. If you give it lot of room (like as much space as you can afford) it will repay you with an active behavior during daytime which will be much more interesting as any TV program. An enclosure of 5 x 3 x 5 ft would be good for a pair and your snakes might even be calmer because they can keep their distance to you during maintenance etc.

If this enclosure you intend to use is opening at the top you (and your snake) might have another problem. If they have the opportunity they will stay in the highest branches of your enclosure and will seldom come to the ground. If you open the enclosure from above the snake, it will react from panic flight to fight-to-the-death defense. For a snake, especially for a arboreal snake anything coming from above is a BAD thing (think birds of prey).

My recommendation would be to get a tall enclosure at least of the size I mentioned above, which is front opening (sliding glass doors or opening like the ExoTerras). This will provide your snakes with enough room to keep it’s distance from you and you can work below it, so your snake can watch you doing the maintenance from above. I offer the food from below the snakes as well, so they can strike at the mouse from an above position.

Roman

[Scubadiver59]

Point taken, but that being said, I'd have to have at least four of those enclosures for the snakes that I have that climb--two Carpets, a Southern White-lipped Python, and my Taiwanese Beauty; however, that's not going to happen anytime soon, and those snakes are doing well in their current enclosures, though my 8ft+ CP does need an 8ft enclosure (at a minimum).

Eventually, yes, the snakes that climb will have something like what you mention, but for now, they are healthy, feeding well, and are not overly defensive or flighty, nor have they ever bitten.

I do have a used 3.5'x3'x6' (lwh) PVC enclosure, that I picked up for $350, but that one still needs some repair work, i.e. modifications, and won't be occupied for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure who's going in it first, but it might be the RTGR...maybe.
https://i.imgur.com/PStPQcX.jpg


Really nice animal.

However, I have an issue with your intended enclosure size.

Gonyosoma is an active snake which likes to climb, so you should provide it with a tall enclosure. If you give it lot of room (like as much space as you can afford) it will repay you with an active behavior during daytime which will be much more interesting as any TV program. An enclosure of 5 x 3 x 5 ft would be good for a pair and your snakes might even be calmer because they can keep their distance to you during maintenance etc.

If this enclosure you intend to use is opening at the top you (and your snake) might have another problem. If they have the opportunity they will stay in the highest branches of your enclosure and will seldom come to the ground. If you open the enclosure from above the snake, it will react from panic flight to fight-to-the-death defense. For a snake, especially for a arboreal snake anything coming from above is a BAD thing (think birds of prey).

My recommendation would be to get a tall enclosure at least of the size I mentioned above, which is front opening (sliding glass doors or opening like the ExoTerras). This will provide your snakes with enough room to keep it’s distance from you and you can work below it, so your snake can watch you doing the maintenance from above. I offer the food from below the snakes as well, so they can strike at the mouse from an above position.

Roman

[Andy_G]

Point taken, but that being said, I'd have to have at least four of those enclosures for the snakes that I have that climb--two Carpets, a Southern White-lipped Python, and my Taiwanese Beauty; however, that's not going to happen anytime soon, and those snakes are doing well in their current enclosures, though my 8ft+ CP does need an 8ft enclosure (at a minimum).

Eventually, yes, the snakes that climb will have something like what you mention, but for now, they are healthy, feeding well, and are not overly defensive or flighty, nor have they ever bitten.



Gonyosoma tend to remain calmer when positioned higher than you or any movement in their cage and are much more nervous than the species you mentioned,Scuba. You're comparing apples to oranges here in my opinion with all due respect.

[Scubadiver59]

Then that would mean that one would need an 7'-8' cage...pray, tell me, who has one of those?

Gonyosoma tend to remain calmer when positioned higher than you or any movement in their cage and are much more nervous than the species you mentioned,Scuba. You're comparing apples to oranges here in my opinion with all due respect.

[jjhill001]

WOW...... That's crazy cool.

[Andy_G]

Then that would mean that one would need an 7'-8' cage...pray, tell me, who has one of those?

So you're 6'11" and don't plan on working or approaching below the snake, nor would it be possible to stack one cage on top of another to give the snake a position higher in relation to you. Got it. Enjoy your new snake, scuba. Also, watch out for doorways being so tall.

[jjhill001]

Is it WC? It appears that it's being kept in a tub at the moment, if it's an established LTC or CB it's probably not gonna react much differently in the enclosure that he's planning to use.

[Scubadiver59]

I'm still waiting for an answer regarding its current digs. I'll poke the seller again for some answers.

Is it WC? It appears that it's being kept in a tub at the moment, if it's an established LTC or CB it's probably not gonna react much differently in the enclosure that he's planning to use.

[IDvsEGO]

pretty snake. I am hoping they have one of these at this weekends show.

[Roman]

Then that would mean that one would need an 7'-8' cage...pray, tell me, who has one of those?

I keep my Gonyosomas in an enclosure 120 x 80 x 150 cm (ca 4 x 3 x 5 ft). I would prefer to give them some more length, but this is what I have right now. It seems to be OK so far, the snakes prefer more vertical space than horizontal space.


https://i.imgur.com/vG4VqxT.jpg

Is it WC? It appears that it's being kept in a tub at the moment, if it's an established LTC or CB it's probably not gonna react much differently in the enclosure that he's planning to use.


What the snake is showing in the picture is the first stage of it’s defensive behavior. Inflating the neck and tongue flickering. My trio are CB, I have them since 2013 and they will still react defensive if I come from above them. Occasionally they will bite even in situations they would usually just be curious, they are sometimes a little unpredictable. So I doubt that this kind of behavior will fade with time, especially if most movements will be above the snake.



Roman

[jjhill001]

I keep my Gonyosomas in an enclosure 120 x 80 x 150 cm (ca 4 x 3 x 5 ft). I would prefer to give them some more length, but this is what I have right now. It seems to be OK so far, the snakes prefer more vertical space than horizontal space.


https://i.imgur.com/vG4VqxT.jpg




What the snake is showing in the picture is the first stage of it’s defensive behavior. Inflating the neck and tongue flickering. My trio are CB, I have them since 2013 and they will still react defensive if I come from above them. Occasionally they will bite even in situations they would usually just be curious, they are sometimes a little unpredictable. So I doubt that this kind of behavior will fade with time, especially if most movements will be above the snake.



Roman

Really pretty enclosures Roman, I've yet to delve into the Asian rat snakes yet so I'll take your word for it on this particular species irascibility.

Did you get yours as babies? Did you make any concerted effort to tame them up?

[Scubadiver59]

I keep my Gonyosomas in an enclosure 120 x 80 x 150 cm (ca 4 x 3 x 5 ft). I would prefer to give them some more length, but this is what I have right now. It seems to be OK so far, the snakes prefer more vertical space than horizontal space.

What the snake is showing in the picture is the first stage of it’s defensive behavior. Inflating the neck and tongue flickering. My trio are CB, I have them since 2013 and they will still react defensive if I come from above them. Occasionally they will bite even in situations they would usually just be curious, they are sometimes a little unpredictable. So I doubt that this kind of behavior will fade with time, especially if most movements will be above the snake.

Roman

Helluva an enclosure!! Did you build that yourself or did you purchase it? And how much did it cost?

I'm thinking of something along this line (4'x2'x6')...

[jjhill001]

Helluva an enclosure!! Did you build that yourself or did you purchase it? And how much did it cost?

I'm thinking of something along this line (4'x2'x6')...

Start growing the ficus and other plants now. I'm having a heck of a time getting clippings to grow in a setup with a full grown snake in it lol.

[Roman]

Helluva an enclosure!! Did you build that yourself or did you purchase it? And how much did it cost?

I'm thinking of something along this line (4'x2'x6')...

This enclosure should be fine, personally I would prefer if the enclosure would be a little deeper/wider (3 ft instead of 2 ft) to give the snake more room to keep it’s distance to you and feel more secure, but the size should be OK.

Really pretty enclosures Roman, I've yet to delve into the Asian rat snakes yet so I'll take your word for it on this particular species irascibility.

Did you get yours as babies? Did you make any concerted effort to tame them up?

I got my snakes as semi adults, they were about two years old when I got them. Usually I don’t try to tame my snakes, with most of them it wouldn’t do any good to begin with. They get used to the daily routine maintenance work, mainly the daily spraying of water. Most of my arboreal snakes (not specifically Gonyosoma) calm down after some time and don’t flee or get defensive as soon as they see me. But trying to handle them on a regular basis would put them under stress, so I don’t do it.

Sometimes my Gonyosoma will use my arm as a climbing branch during the water spaying, as long as they don’t move to far from there I let them do it and move them carefully back into their enclosure when I am finished with spraying water. Occasionally I will get one snake out during feeding time when they start to work themselves up into a “feeding frenzy”, this snake will use my hand as a useful branch during eating.

So in other words, my snakes are used to my presence and are usually calm, but sometimes you get a nib anyway for no obvious reason.

Roman

[Scubadiver59]

This enclosure should be fine, personally I would prefer if the enclosure would be a little deeper/wider (3 ft instead of 2 ft) to give the snake more room to keep it’s distance to you and feel more secure, but the size should be OK.

I can make changes to the case, and 3' vice 2' would be doable.

I got my snakes as semi adults, they were about two years old when I got them. Usually I don’t try to tame my snakes, with most of them it wouldn’t do any good to begin with. They get used to the daily routine maintenance work, mainly the daily spraying of water. Most of my arboreal snakes (not specifically Gonyosoma) calm down after some time and don’t flee or get defensive as soon as they see me. But trying to handle them on a regular basis would put them under stress, so I don’t do it.

My Taiwanese Beauty doesn't like the harder water spray setting I sometimes use, vice the misting setting on my bottle, and will try to take off outside the cage. I sometimes let it go and then collect the snake when I'm done. No bites yet due to that.

Sometimes my Gonyosoma will use my arm as a climbing branch during the water spaying, as long as they don’t move to far from there I let them do it and move them carefully back into their enclosure when I am finished with spraying water. Occasionally I will get one snake out during feeding time when they start to work themselves up into a “feeding frenzy”, this snake will use my hand as a useful branch during eating.

So in other words, my snakes are used to my presence and are usually calm, but sometimes you get a nib anyway for no obvious reason.
Roman

The only snake I have that does this is my CA Striped King...it just sidles up when I'm cleaning, opens up its mouth, clamps down on the unsuspecting finger, lets go, and then moves on about its business. It's like, "this is my space, I'm in charge, and I can do what I want." The result is a few teeth marks, a bit of blood, and some cursing regarding the snake's ancestry.

[Roman]

I can make changes to the case, and 3' vice 2' would be doable.

Do it, your snake will most likely be calmer in the wider enclosure.


The only snake I have that does this is my CA Striped King...it just sidles up when I'm cleaning, opens up its mouth, clamps down on the unsuspecting finger, lets go, and then moves on about its business. It's like, "this is my space, I'm in charge, and I can do what I want." The result is a few teeth marks, a bit of blood, and some cursing regarding the snake's ancestry.

Lol, you made me nearly spill a perfect cup of coffee. That’s precisely what I do when the guys go after me again.


Roman

[Scubadiver59]

Well, you know what they say about the "best laid plans of mice and men" don't you?

Well, Muryphy's Law kicked in as well...

Here's the snake that was advertised on KingSnake.com:
https://i.imgur.com/EnIyllh.jpg

And here's what I got:
https://i.imgur.com/CkgeJc0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YLqt5E5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/heIzNFD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/70EGeuv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ftFV9qB.jpg

Needless to say I'm a bit pissed about this transaction. The snake wasn't a lot, $250 w/shipping, but come on...this snake is not the snake advertised and it has some serious scale damage. Not major damage that's life threatening, but damage that will take a vet visit.

I contacted the seller, whom will remain anonymous for now, and said he had several options:
1. Send me my money back and send extra to pay for shipping the snake back...I'm not paying to send it back.
2. Send me the snake advertised, and again send money to cover shipping the "damaged" snake back. He pays for everything.
3. Negotiate with me to have me keep the snake, but it will still include refunding some of my original payment to cover vet bills.

Or, do nothing and I contact PayPal to get my money back, the Better Business Bureau, and who knows who else to complain about the transaction. Then comes dragging his name through the mud on every forum I can find that deals with reptiles.

I understand that the seller deals mainly with 'hots', but that's no excuse for sending an injured animal to someone and not identifying the injuries before the sale is complete. And before you ask, no, I didn't ask if the animal was injured, I shouldn't have to.

Well, I better get off to work. The snake is resting in a temp tub (110L Sterilite) for now. It has moss for humidity, water, a hide, and a pole to hang around on once it warms up after its journey.
https://i.imgur.com/CmMuakY.jpg

[DJC Reptiles]

I hope you are able to reach an understanding with the seller. Best of luck :)

[kazz]

I keep my Gonyosomas in an enclosure 120 x 80 x 150 cm (ca 4 x 3 x 5 ft). I would prefer to give them some more length, but this is what I have right now. It seems to be OK so far, the snakes prefer more vertical space than horizontal space.


https://i.imgur.com/vG4VqxT.jpg






As far as I know snake don't like 4 side from glass. 1 side glass makes them feel much more secure.

[Roman]

As far as I know snake don't like 4 side from glass. 1 side glass makes them feel much more secure.

Thank you very much. I will tell them immediately that they should go hiding in their cork tub instead of resting in their favorite branches. I am sure they just didn’t know that they should feel insecure because they have unrestricted panorama view instead of a restricted perspective. The view from a treetop of a 30 m (100 ft) tree in Borneo is so restricted by other trees, the snakes would be confused or even frightened by the sight into my living room.

I always enjoy advice by new keepers who have their carpet python for less than 6 month, feed it fish and are wondering why a small, young snake stays in hiding most of the time. It’s so refreshing to get a new insight after keeping snakes for more than 30 years (and this particular species for more than 20 years – most of the time in this very enclosure).

For your continuing education, a full glass enclosure could be a problem if you have either a really young snake (which is very likely afraid of pretty much everything) reacting skittish, a snake new in this environment or probably in an environment with lots of movement all around the enclosure (like in a public place), so you can try to calm your snake by restricting the view on several sides of the enclosure until it acclimatized enough to stay calm. I keep my current trio in this enclosure since 2013 and they will watch me as calmly as I watch them, so I can assure you that for them this panoramic view is not a problem.

Roman

[kazz]

Thank you very much. I will tell them immediately that they should go hiding in their cork tub instead of resting in their favorite branches.
one side glass rule is definitely work for green pythons. There is a video about it from Discovery Snake channel on youtube.

I always enjoy advice by new keepers who have their carpet python for less than 6 month, feed it fish and are wondering why a small, young snake stays in hiding most of the time. It’s so refreshing to get a new insight after keeping snakes for more than 30 years (and this particular species for more than 20 years – most of the time in this very enclosure).
oh it's great you look my threads and try to insult me.
I understand bc I was insulting you above (wasn't)

[Roman]

one side glass rule is definitely work for green pythons. There is a video about it from Discovery Snake channel on youtube.

oh it's great you look my threads and try to insult me.
I understand bc I was insulting you above (wasn't)

Oh and we all know that everything on youtube is always the absolute truth - or isn’t it :). I don’t know about green tree pythons, but a friend of mine kept emerald tree boas in a three sided glass enclosure.

I think you misunderstood me, I didn’t want to insult you (I would use another kind of language to do this), it is called "sarcasm". I still think it is rather funny if you try to consult somebody about his enclosure if you are struggling with your very first setup yourself. If you read my posts in this thread you would have noticed that I keep my trio of Gonyosoma since 2013, so I would probably already have noticed if my snakes were nervous.

As for reading your posts, if somebody disagrees on something I wrote and I haven’t discussed with him/her before, I read some posts of him/her to get a feeling about the knowledge level of this user, so I can evaluate the reasoning and the relevance of his information. I don’t follow you in particular.

Roman

[kazz]

I still think it is rather funny if you try to consult somebody about his enclosure if you are struggling with your very first setup yourself. If you read my posts in this thread you would have noticed that I keep my trio of Gonyosoma since 2013, so I would probably already have noticed if my snakes were nervous.
I wasn't consult you. And I don't keep to assure you about your enclosure. Actually I correct myself above telling it work with green pythons.
Oh and we all know that everything on youtube is always the absolute truth
Snake Discovery it's a channel from ppl who has dozens of snakes and breed them.

And your sarcasm about your enclosure isn't insult. Insult it's your sarcasm about my threads.

[Scubadiver59]

Hey guys, take the conversation offline and quit hijacking this thread w/petty squabbles!

Thanks!

[Roman]

Hey guys, take the conversation offline and quit hijacking this thread w/petty squabbles!

Thanks!

Sorry about that, it just … annoys me if somebody inserts himself into a discussion with something you can only charitably call "half knowledge"…

But back on topic. Do you know if the snake is WC? This might explain the skin damage.

When you are back at home, please spray some hand warm water directly on the snake and if it starts to drink keep on spraying as long as it is drinking, don’t worry if the enclosure gets a little wet, my snakes spend days in their drinking bowl, so it should not really matter if it gets a little wet.



Gonyosomas are not used to drink out of water bowls, my snakes are CB and even they didn’t use their water bowl once during the first 6 month in their enclosure, so your snake might be at least thirsty or even more likely in the first stage of dehydration but it will not drink from the water bowl, it will only drink fresh water droplets "raining" on it (which makes sense when most stagnant water you might find anywhere in the tropics carries very likely a high load of bacteria and any number of other parasites).

From the look of your pictures it might be in shed, the green is very pale so it seems that the lymph fluid is still between the old and the new skin, so drinking might be even more important right now.

Roman

[Scubadiver59]

I'll do the spraying this morning after the lights come up. I've been meaning to get a couple of the wash bottles with the long tubes, like Al (Viperkeeper) uses for his snakes. Looks like I'll have to order one or two today.

The snake spent most of yesterday sitting on the 2qt bowl of sphagnum moss I put in its tub to keep the humidity up and it does have a bowl of water sitting right next to the sphagnum. Before that, it was in the hot hide--well, the only hide--probably warming up after its long trip from Florida.

And yes, it is in shed, so I don't know how much of those damaged areas will be repaired. I'm out of Neosporin, at least any that hasn't already expired, so I'll get some today and be ready to apply after the shed.

And as far as it being wild caught, that's a question the seller will have to answer. He said he had it at least six months so I'll wager that it probably was, but I'll send him an e-mail after I post this. It was a bit cold when I got the snake out of the box--it was wrapped tightly around a ball of newspaper--even though there was a warmer pack in the Styrofoam box, but that was outside the bag the snake was in. Anyway, the snake was rather docile at first, climbing up my arm and shoulder, but after I put it in the tub, it went to the corner by the water and then puffed up its neck and started that "lazy", slow, blue tongue flick that to me said, "hands off bud!" Needless to say, I heeded the warning.


Sorry about that, it just … annoys me if somebody inserts himself into a discussion with something you can only charitably call "half knowledge"…

But back on topic. Do you know if the snake is WC? This might explain the skin damage.

When you are back at home, please spray some hand warm water directly on the snake and if it starts to drink keep on spraying as long as it is drinking, don’t worry if the enclosure gets a little wet, my snakes spend days in their drinking bowl, so it should not really matter if it gets a little wet.

Gonyosomas are not used to drink out of water bowls, my snakes are CB and even they didn’t use their water bowl once during the first 6 month in their enclosure, so your snake might be at least thirsty or even more likely in the first stage of dehydration but it will not drink from the water bowl, it will only drink fresh water droplets "raining" on it (which makes sense when most stagnant water you might find anywhere in the tropics carries very likely a high load of bacteria and any number of other parasites).

From the look of your pictures it might be in shed, the green is very pale so it seems that the lymph fluid is still between the old and the new skin, so drinking might be even more important right now.

Roman

[Roman]

I'll do the spraying this morning after the lights come up. I've been meaning to get a couple of the wash bottles with the long tubes, like Al (Viperkeeper) uses for his snakes. Looks like I'll have to order one or two today.

Do the spraying. As I said, Gonyosoma could probably die of thirst resting besides a water bowl. I have never tried these wash bottles, but if your snake is in I-bite-your-face defensive mode then it might consider anything coming to close as an additional danger. Use a handsprayer, it lets you keep your distance to the snake and provides the water droplets it prefers anyway.

I suppose that the snake is WC, I am not really familiar with prices in the US, but I think I remember some WC snakes offered for something like 250$ to 300$.

So depending on what happens with your deal wait, for the shed, let the snake settle in (for Gonyosoma this is even more important than for your average new snake), spray water on a daily basis (probably twice a day) and try to feed it.

If it is WC, this might pose a problem. Many WC Gonyosomas develop a certain taste in the wild, some specialize in bats, others in birds, so it can be difficult to get them to eat. The only WC Gonyosoma I ever got refused to eat any rodent at all and only ate two day old chicken after a lot of teasing. Needless to say that this was only a short experience, it died on a massive parasite load.

So if your snake eats, get the feces to a laboratory or a vet ASAP and have them checked for worms. If you go to a vet because of the skin problems anyway, let him check the snake for lungworms (nematodes) and tongue worms (Pentastomida).

Anyway, the snake was rather docile at first, climbing up my arm and shoulder, but after I put it in the tub, it went to the corner by the water and then puffed up its neck and started that "lazy", slow, blue tongue flick that to me said, "hands off bud!" Needless to say, I heeded the warning.

Welcome to the world of Gonyosoma :)

Roman

[Scubadiver59]

Do the spraying. As I said, Gonyosoma could probably die of thirst resting besides a water bowl. I have never tried these wash bottles, but if your snake is in I-bite-your-face defensive mode then it might consider anything coming to close as an additional danger. Use a handsprayer, it lets you keep your distance to the snake and provides the water droplets it prefers anyway.

It was still laying on the sphagnum when I sprayed it...it never really moved and didn't do anything close to turning towards me.

I suppose that the snake is WC, I am not really familiar with prices in the US, but I think I remember some WC snakes offered for something like 250$ to 300$.

Yes, it is WC and the seller received it in October, so I'm guessing that the damage occurred probably between capture and my receiving it. Never had a WC, so this will be a learning experience. I also paid $250 (shipping included).

So depending on what happens with your deal wait, for the shed, let the snake settle in (for Gonyosoma this is even more important than for your average new snake), spray water on a daily basis (probably twice a day) and try to feed it.

I'll give it a few days and then see if it's ready to eat. Everyone is due to eat on Sun & Mon.

If it is WC, this might pose a problem. Many WC Gonyosomas develop a certain taste in the wild, some specialize in bats, others in birds, so it can be difficult to get them to eat. The only WC Gonyosoma I ever got refused to eat any rodent at all and only ate two day old chicken after a lot of teasing. Needless to say that this was only a short experience, it died on a massive parasite load.

So if your snake eats, get the feces to a laboratory or a vet ASAP and have them checked for worms. If you go to a vet because of the skin problems anyway, let him check the snake for lungworms (nematodes) and tongue worms (Pentastomida).

Welcome to the world of Gonyosoma :)

Roman

Ah, I love going to the vet...not; but, I'll follow your suggestions and also schedule a trip to the vet. I just hope it doesn't go bye-bye like yours did.

[TRD]

Hope this will all turn out fine!

a WC gonyosoma may be going to give you a handful though. The person who sold you this should really stop this business practice, it was sold under a lie and very heavily overpriced... I was just offered a WC pair few months back for 120 euro, which were both in better shape than yours, but I don't know US prices..

Goodluck with it though! I hope you don't need much of the luck part :)

[jjhill001]

Hope this will all turn out fine!

a WC gonyosoma may be going to give you a handful though. The person who sold you this should really stop this business practice, it was sold under a lie and very heavily overpriced... I was just offered a WC pair few months back for 120 euro, which were both in better shape than yours, but I don't know US prices..

Goodluck with it though! I hope you don't need much of the luck part :)

You're closer to where they are from. I think that has a hand in how they arrive. I imagine a WC snake from South America shows up in the US in better shape than it would show up in Europe just due to distance. And would be cheaper for a US person than a Euro as well.

[jjhill001]

I hope you are following proper quarantine measures as well.

[Roman]

You're closer to where they are from. I think that has a hand in how they arrive. I imagine a WC snake from South America shows up in the US in better shape than it would show up in Europe just due to distance. And would be cheaper for a US person than a Euro as well.

I think the WC snakes we get here in Europe are on average not in a better shape than the snakes you get in the US, it will probably depend on the dealer and how good (or bad) he keeps them before they will enter the flight.

I think the main difference is that here in Europe the demand for WC Gonyosoma is near Nill, because we have a small but steady supply of CB snakes each year. If you look for them you will find them, especially in the late spring early summer in our version of "fauna classifieds" or at the Hamm expo.

I know of one dealer in Paris who currently offers WC Gonyosoma for 125 EURO, but you could get CB 2017 and CB 2016 snakes last summer for ca. 150 or 175 Euro.

[jjhill001]

I think the WC snakes we get here in Europe are on average not in a better shape than the snakes you get in the US, it will probably depend on the dealer and how good (or bad) he keeps them before they will enter the flight.

I think the main difference is that here in Europe the demand for WC Gonyosoma is near Nill, because we have a small but steady supply of CB snakes each year. If you look for them you will find them, especially in the late spring early summer in our version of "fauna classifieds" or at the Hamm expo.

I know of one dealer in Paris who currently offers WC Gonyosoma for 125 EURO, but you could get CB 2017 and CB 2016 snakes last summer for ca. 150 or 175 Euro.

Ah, I was just talking in general, not specifically Gonyosoma.

[jjhill001]

Hows the snake doing Scubadiver?

[Scubadiver59]

Well, better than it was before, but still questionable looking at the loose skin on the snake. I know it's in shed, but the looseness around the neck seems to be a little extreme.

That being said, the snake is much more alert than it was the other day:
1. It crapped in the sphagnum bowl so I had to dump that in the trash. I rinsed the bowl out and then sprayed it w/a concentrated Clorox solution before I send it through the dishwasher. I replaced the sphagnum and the snake settled right back on that bowl.
2. I removed the hide I put in the temp terrarium since the snake didn't seem interested and I put in a grape wood branch for the snake to use when it sheds since i didn't think that paper towels would cut it.
3. The bowl of water is still in the cage since I needed something to help keep up the humidity besides the sphagnum. I also spray the enclosure in the morning and night. I don't have a hygrometer in there right now but I'll see if the local cigar shop has one I can purchase.
4. I'm keeping the temperatures up at ~87ºF during the day with a CHE and a 60w blue ZooMed incandescent bulb and dropping the temp to ~80ºF at night using the CHE.
5. Tried to feed again last night when I was feeding all the big snakes and all the snake did was strike at the meal. I left it in the cage overnight but it was still there this morning. The previous owner said it was eating weaned rats or adult mice but all I had was weaned rats. I tried a rat pup the other night but that was before the change in activity levels...it too was refused.
6. Regarding the snake dehydrating despite the water bowl...you are correct in that assumption, as far as I can tell, and the snake has only been drinking if I stream water on its head. This morning, it had its head positioned against one of the coils and I started streaming water in its face...it started drinking the water streaming from its head to the coil. This is the second time since I've had it at home, so that's a good sign I guess. I'll try to do this twice a day, morning and night, and if it moves I know it's had enough...either that, or I'll get bit (I had a strike against my hand the other day, but no teeth involved).

Any more ideas, JJ??? :)

[DJC Reptiles]

I know it's in shed, but the looseness around the neck seems to be a little extreme.


That is probably a result of not only the snake being in shed, but the way the snake was captured in the wild. When capturing, most people use nooses to enclose a loop around the neck of snakes to capture them. I know many people who keep WC animals say the animals have a ring looking mark around the neck. After a while, I'd expect the skin to get looser around this area. I am happy to hear your snakes doing better at the very least.

On an unrelated note, soak spagnum moss for a minimum of two hours to make sure it's not absorbing any of the humidity in the air. This will make sure your snake gets a little more water in its system.

[Roman]

If the snake is drinking that’s a good sign. Keep on streaming the water on it for as long as it is drinking to get it hydrated again.

Don’t worry about the feeding, this is probably the least of your problems for now. If it is not eating now, I would wait for another week before trying again.

Get a "sample set" (sorry, I don’t know if this is the right expression, you know this small plastic tube for a feces sample, probably from a pharmacy) and if it crappes again take a sample for your vet.

A temperature of 87° F is to high overall, under a hot spot it would be OK, but if the whole enclosure gets that hot it is too hot. I keep my snakes at temperatures between 90° F below the hotspot and about 75° F at the cool side (bottom), so the 80° F should be enough for your snake.

When you try to feed it again, move the rat/mouse in front and if possible below your snake (if it rests on a branch or the water bowl), don’t move it above the snake (my guys don’t care where the food is coming from, but a new snake might be more comfortable if it is above the food). If it doesn’t react or reacts defensively try to tease feed it by provoking it to strike the mouse. If this doesn’t work within a few minutes, don’t try any longer and wait another few days or even another week, than try again.

As I said, it can be difficult to get a WC Gonyosoma to eat, adults from Indonesia (Borneo) often specialize in bats as food and it will take some time before they accept "bats without wings"…


Roman

[Scubadiver59]

If the snake is drinking that’s a good sign. Keep on streaming the water on it for as long as it is drinking to get it hydrated again.

Aye, aye, captain!

Get a "sample set" (sorry, I don’t know if this is the right expression, you know this small plastic tube for a feces sample, probably from a pharmacy) and if it craps again take a sample for your vet.

I understand...some kind of sterilized collection "device". That last "movement" didn't look normal, at least what I see from my other snakes, but that could just be the way it was in the sphagnum.

A temperature of 87° F is to high overall, under a hot spot it would be OK, but if the whole enclosure gets that hot it is too hot. I keep my snakes at temperatures between 90° F below the hotspot and about 75° F at the cool side (bottom), so the 80° F should be enough for your snake.

It's not 87ºF overall in the enclosure, but I'm not sure what the cooler side is. I need to cut up some branches to put in this temporary enclosure to make it feel a little more at home and to give it some place to sit off on the cooler side. I'll do that when I get home tonight, after I warm them up in the house for an hour or two.

Don’t worry about the feeding, this is probably the least of your problems for now. If it is not eating now, I would wait for another week before trying again.

When you try to feed it again, move the rat/mouse in front and if possible below your snake (if it rests on a branch or the water bowl), don’t move it above the snake (my guys don’t care where the food is coming from, but a new snake might be more comfortable if it is above the food). If it doesn’t react or reacts defensively try to tease feed it by provoking it to strike the mouse. If this doesn’t work within a few minutes, don’t try any longer and wait another few days or even another week, than try again.

If I remember right, I came at it from the same level and from a little lower while it was on the bowl. Once I get the branches in, I'll try it again next weekend...or after the shed, whichever comes first.

As I said, it can be difficult to get a WC Gonyosoma to eat, adults from Indonesia (Borneo) often specialize in bats as food and it will take some time before they accept "bats without wings"…


Roman

Well, it's not going anywhere (at least I hope not), and neither am I, so we have lots of time together to iron out our differences. :rolleyes:

[Roman]

Aye, aye, captain!

Hey, you should know that we Germans always talk in CAPITAL LETTERS, even when we whisper… :)


I understand...some kind of sterilized collection "device".

Yes, something like this

https://thatgirlryan.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/dientamoeba-fragilis-stool-sample-tube.jpg



Roman

[Scubadiver59]

Update...

Shed has come and gone--never seen a snake shed like that before, the skin literally lift off the snake like a loose sock, and then the snake "tried" to get it all off, but failed miserably.
So, I had to help out a bit to get the remainder off the tail and the lower portion of the head. If a snake has cheeks, there's still a little below the mouth and just behind the head, but nothing that a bit of moving around on the branches I put in the cage shouldn't take off between now and when it sheds again...there's nothing going all the way around to cause a tourniquet and cause issues during the next shed, and I didn't want to stress it out any more than I had to. Like...

Removing the stuck right eye cap was also a bit of fun. Had to restrain the client--go figure--and use a wet wash cloth to stroke it until it flipped mostly free. Then I used my fingernails to grasp it and pull it free.

One good thing was that the shed removed a bit of the "black" damaged areas..they're not as dark or as large as they were before. I think one or two more sheds will clean things up.

I tried feeding again before the shed came off...I offered a weaned rat and all it did was strike; so, I left it behind, draped over a branch but it went untouched until I removed it the next morning. I tried a pup rat once before, after a day or two in the new surroundings, but that was totally ignored.

Defecation has also occurred twice since I receive the snake. Problem was that it's in web sphagnum and I can't get a sample to get to the vet to check for parasites; so, either I get a clean sample the next time or I just take it to the vet for a check up nonetheless. Probably the best option, the latter, but I was trying for a fecal sample as well. Maybe I'll get lucky (?) and get another one before its visit comes around.

Final note is that I got tagged putting in a larger water bath just before the snake shed. Now then, some of you might question that for a snake that's arboreal, but it was soaking part of its body in the smaller bowl I had in the cage at first and I thought it would totally submerge if it had a larger "bowl". I never did see it in there, but it helps keep the humidity up since it's under the light and helps with evaporation. I only got hit with two teeth when I got "nipped" so I consider myself lucky...this time!

[Andy_G]

Hope all turns out well soon, Scuba.

[Roman]

I wouldn’t worry too much about the bad shed, after the stress induced from shipping and new environment combined with lack of water it was more or less to be expected.


Defecation has also occurred twice since I receive the snake. Problem was that it's in web sphagnum and I can't get a sample to get to the vet to check for parasites; so, either I get a clean sample the next time or I just take it to the vet for a check up nonetheless. Probably the best option, the latter, but I was trying for a fecal sample as well. Maybe I'll get lucky (?) and get another one before its visit comes around.

I would just get some of the feces, regardless if there is some moss still attached or not, it should not matter for the lab/vet.


Final note is that I got tagged putting in a larger water bath just before the snake shed. Now then, some of you might question that for a snake that's arboreal, but it was soaking part of its body in the smaller bowl I had in the cage at first and I thought it would totally submerge if it had a larger "bowl". I never did see it in there, but it helps keep the humidity up since it's under the light and helps with evaporation.

I am not surprised, my snakes spend sometimes days totally submerged in their water bowl and not only before shed or after meals. It took them some time to realize what a water bowl is, but since then they use it on a regular basis as their swimming pool.


Roman