Decision ?

[Hissing sid 65]

Bull snake or pine snake...both are available at the supplier and the pine is more expensive but just seems a little bit more unique..both seem to have simaler care needs so it's just a straight choice....wondering what people's views are?

[DJC Reptiles]

Bull snake or pine snake...both are available at the supplier and the pine is more expensive but just seems a little bit more unique..both seem to have simaler care needs so it's just a straight choice....wondering what people's views are?

For me, I would choose a bull snake, but it depends on the pine snake. I would love to own a black pine snake, anything else, I would much rather choose a bull. Bull snakes normally grow larger and are more active then pine snakes.

[Bandit]

It's really all what you like better. They're pretty similar as far as care, attitude, etc. Bulls will get a bit bigger. What kind of pine is it?

[Hissing sid 65]

Patternless southern pine snake

[Bandit]

Man that's a tough one. They're both cool snakes. I think you'll be happy with either (or neither, if you catch my drift). I'd go and handle each one and see which one really draws you in, and go with that one.

[jjhill001]

Northern is my favorite. Kind of want to get a pair of each of them before they become totally illegal to own. Third Eye Herp works with them.

[akane]

Maybe when they are grown I could pick between my northern pine snakes and bull snakes but there are so many options for a bull/gopher snake it would depend what the individuals are. I am not a fan of the yellow everyone seems to like or anything hypo. Odds are you will not get a black pine snake as being endangered they require federal permits for things like selling across state lines and I found the next state over with a breeder applies their own state permit for them. That state just likes to squeeze out any money they can though so the motivation probably ends there and you can get it with no effort if you want to.

My northern pines should actually get longer than my kankakee bulls but not as thick and the variability of bull snakes makes it depend on the individual again. My texas bull is a mystery I picked up as my second snake but they are known to sometimes reach impressive sizes so he might beat everything eventually. Bull morphs may be a mix of sources but without much for morphs and existing in more pockets across North America instead of the spread of the bull and gopher snakes you can often get more detailed info on pines from even breeders who don't keep track of locale. I'm not sure where my northerns came from but I asked about the breeding group and their relatives are about 7' long.

Husbandry differences are minor and more come down to how much you want to match the setup to their behavior than exact temp, humidity, or lighting concerns. The northerns are burrowers and bulls tend to love their caves so my pine feeding right now is poke the soil until something pops out to threaten me. Likely more difficult for them to disappear under the soil mix and objects directly over the soil as they get 7' long. The female doesn't care half as much as the male and just loosens up some soil to half settle into while the male burrows completely under rocks and logs. For my bulls I get sliced slate either as flooring tile for younger ones or larger pieces from landscaping and garden stores to build both a cave and a basking platform without the weight of naturally shaped rock. I put one on each end of the enclosure and hang a heat lamp over one. They are usually on them or under them. While they don't dig most of the enclosure they do insist their cave go deeper all the time. Bedding gets shoved out and 2 systems of drainage layer for my natural setups have failed to stop bull snake cave excavation.

[Captain837]

If memory serves me correctly the only pine snake I ever worked with was a black pine. The only memorable experience with it was it musked every time I picked it up. No hissing, biting or defensive behavior. It just liked to make you stink.
As far as bull snakes, I have only worked with wild ones and they were fairly chill as soon as they realized I was not trying to eat them. If I was to choose between the two, I would probbably go for a bull snake.

[akane]

My northern pine snakes and what I've noticed of other postings since I got them is quite the opposite. Mine never musked and they are far quicker to get on the defensive than young bull snakes I've had. They are still quite individual. The female started out getting defensive easier and hitting everything that moved. I scooped her up this morning and got some tail shaking but otherwise she let me place her how I wanted in my hands. When I put her back she returned to her morning basking. Ever since I moved him to a full setup with lots of objects and digging material the male has to be searched for and immediately goes into defensive posture with hissing and rattling. He took weeks to settle back in and eat. She downed a large meal a few days after moving.

The now 2 year old bull still gets riled up fairly easily but even the fall after he hatched he never aimed to connect and has only grazed me with a tooth once while bluffing past me. I know a few people say they have a bull that remains extra reactive. I've only had them bluff after the first few days and then that drops off. I do have this female that has barely even hissed except to threaten a cat the first time she saw one but she's extremely alert and only ambush strikes with full commitment to connect. I have no problem handling her but I kind of like the noisy ones with obvious warnings if they decide my hand needs killed while moving things around.

[EL Ziggy]

I would love to have a black pine. They're gorgeous animals. That said, I highly recommend bull snakes. My pair are active, they eat all the time, and they're fun to handle. There was a little huffing and nipping as babies but they're both ultra tame now. The female is pushing 8 ft and is a tad thicker than my wrist. The male is a touch over 6ft but quite a bit slimmer than the female. Their husbandry is really simple too. I think bulls are the perfect colubrid. :)

[Scubadiver59]

I looked into getting a Black Pine...was going to have to pay $300 to the Kentucky State Game Service for permits, and another $100 for the Federal permit to move it across state lines to Virginia.

That put me off and I never did get the snake.

[DJC Reptiles]

I looked into getting a Black Pine...was going to have to pay $300 to the Kentucky State Game Service for permits, and another $100 for the Federal permit to move it across state lines to Virginia.

That put me off and I never did get the snake.

Yeah, they really are expensive. I have seen them go for $400 at expos.