feeling guilty about feeding

[launimals]

Hey, Im planning on getting either a kenyan sand boa or a hognose soon, this will be my first snake and Ive done research plenty of research for months and I believe that I am extremely qualified to own one, I'd be the perfect owner if it werent for the fact that I feel bad about feeding. Don't get me wrong, I know that these snakes require rats and mice etc as part of their diet and I biologically cant, and wont change that, but having owned a hamster I feel like I'd probably cry every time I'd feed. Does anyone have tips or tricks to get over this? I want a snake and I dont want to be sensitive towards feeding

another question which Ive debated with a friend, is that they say feeding a few pinkies is equivalent to feeding a mice, which in my opinion isnt true but ive never owned a snake so I can't be completely sure.

Thanks!!!

[Minkness]

You should always feed the appropriate sized meal for the animal. Pinkies lack some nutrition as they have no actual food in their stomachs, no fur, and their bones haven't hardened yet.

As for gett ing over feeding, you should feed frozen thawed anyway. Just do it, cry if you have to, because after the first few times it won't feel so bad.

[samiam1796]

I am a fairly new owner of a baby kenyan sand boa, and I completely understand what you mean about feeding. I also love all animals and have owned rodents in the past. It seems like a hard thing to think about, however once you own the snake, the thought of giving a mouse for food becomes much easier because all you can see is a hungry little animal who I am sure you want to keep happy. Once they are your pet and you form a bond with them, you will do what it takes to keep them healthy and happy. I can say that from experience because I swore I would never feed a live mouse, however when my baby KSB was refusing to eat, I had to resort in feeding him live pinkies. I wasn't thrilled, however it got him to eat which made me happy in the end. The best piece of advice I have is to try and get it to feed in it's enclosure or a separate container (whichever you prefer) and just leave it in there with the feeder and walk away, that way you do not have to participate. HOWEVER, you should be prepared that if that does not work, you may have to participate and do the zombie dance with the feeder.

Best of luck!

[dannybgoode]

Serious question - do you eat meat? If you do do you think about the cute little animal now sat on your plate?

If you just view it as food then try and view the rodent in the same manner - it's just food.

Detach yourself from what it was to what it is.

[Cricket1234]

You could always get a a snake that eats bugs or fish or toads....etc. Some are hard to get and care for.

[launimals]

Thanks everyone! Live feeding is definitely my last resort and the hardest thing to do, but I guess anything other than that I should just view it just like a piece of meat that I eat daily! Can't wait to get my little noodle :D

[launimals]

I am a fairly new owner of a baby kenyan sand boa, and I completely understand what you mean about feeding. I also love all animals and have owned rodents in the past. It seems like a hard thing to think about, however once you own the snake, the thought of giving a mouse for food becomes much easier because all you can see is a hungry little animal who I am sure you want to keep happy. Once they are your pet and you form a bond with them, you will do what it takes to keep them healthy and happy. I can say that from experience because I swore I would never feed a live mouse, however when my baby KSB was refusing to eat, I had to resort in feeding him live pinkies. I wasn't thrilled, however it got him to eat which made me happy in the end. The best piece of advice I have is to try and get it to feed in it's enclosure or a separate container (whichever you prefer) and just leave it in there with the feeder and walk away, that way you do not have to participate. HOWEVER, you should be prepared that if that does not work, you may have to participate and do the zombie dance with the feeder.

Best of luck!

Any tips on the care from a personal standpoint?
thanks!

[DJC Reptiles]

Honestly, feeding was hard for me starting off as well, it is a shame because I actually like mice and rats. I look on it from the point of, if you buy them humainly killed with carbon dioxide it helps to know they never expierenced any pain. Make sure you buy frozen thawed, that helps starting out as well. At this point, even though I still like mice and rats my love for snakes has suppressed that, and you will eventually get past it. I look forward to feeding my snakes, it is one of the main reason, if not the main reason why people keep snakes. Point is, if the mice or rats never feel pain, it would be okay with me. This is the best advice I can give starting out. But for me, my love for snakes would put me to start feeding live to some of my more picky animals. But most snakes, especially common ones like Kenyan sand boas will regularly and happily feed from frozen thawed mice in captivity, just make sure to dry them off to avoid substrate from entering the snake. (This usually doesn't matter if your animal is healthy).

Hope this helps,
-DJC Reptiles

[pet_snake_78]

Everything that lives does so at the demise of something else -- simple fact of life. Even if you do not eat meat, you run over animals driving. Even if you do not drive, animals are plowed over, poisoned, trapped, and their habitat destroyed forever reducing the carrying capacity for certain species to provide you vegetables and grains. Every snake that lives does so by consuming prey items. The prey items in captivity would never even have had 1 second of life if people didn't keep snakes and birds of prey to give someone a reason to breed them.

[SerpentineDream]

I'm one of those that keeps pet rats AND snakes that eat rats. I never feed live rats--just can't do it--and don't breed them for the same reason. I feed frozen / thawed rodents from Big Cheese Rodent Factory. Once I got over the "OMG those poor little critters!" reaction upon first seeing ratscicles and mousescicles and started regarding them as pet food it was easier. I love my pet rats and see them totally differently than I view the frozen ones in the package that are food items. I have to or I couldn't feed my snakes.

I used to feel just as bad for the mice until I tried breeding them just because we HAD to save money somewhere. They weren't like our clean, smart, friendly rats at all. They were little savages. They bit, they pooped in their food, one female bit the testicles off a male, they reeked and were none too bright. But when my husband came home from a job and started choking from an allergic reaction I had to kill the entire breeding colony. I didn't think I cared but I still cried. Not sorry to be back to buying F/T, though the sticker shock is still a factor. Oddly enough DH isn't allergic to our rats.

Anyway, it does get easier with time and desensitization.

[akane]

Mice are the worst for allergies. I get an asthma attack just breathing too close to the box when I open it for a live feeder. Luckily I very rarely need a live mouse. I ended up setting off my allergies so bad with an attempt to breed mice that eventually I got rid of everything but the chinchillas. The south american rodents aren't as bad and the chinchillas don't use bedding like the guinea pigs. I still didn't get full relief from my bronchitis until I stripped the rooms of guinea pig bedding dust. I've raised cat and dog food as rabbits, guinea pigs, quail, chickens, gerbils, hamsters, and then added rats and attempted to add mice to that for the snakes so not really an issue for me. It was hard to snip the head off the first quail. I had to cover it in a paper towel and just smash it down in the sink. I stood there for awhile before I could look. That was 100s of quail and rabbits ago. I feel nervous about a new method to put them down or a new species but as soon as I know they will die immediately without any real risk of failure I don't have a problem with it. Many things already die to make commercial dog food, cat food, many other things I have to buy, and any meat a human eats. I know how mine lived and I know the last moments when they died with never a question of how humane it was. It's just normal now. With some recovery and the rooms stripped of irritants I might try ASF because their urine production and bedding needs are more like gerbils so they set off allergies less than rats or mice. I just had to wear a dust mask cleaning the gerbil cages out. They can colony breed and with larger litters than gerbils though. I just couldn't produce enough gerbils consistently.

[pet_snake_78]

Ya having to kill a food animal is really tough. Honestly feeding live rodents was pretty easy for me but when I had to do the first prekilled rodents, ugggggg it was pretty awful feeling. I still wouldn't like doing it but I feel as long as you do your research and following humane protocol, then no harm in it although I still prefer it when snakes will take take the darn f/t food.

[Magdalen]

I found I do better with frozen. It's already dead (tho some times cute) so I don't feel as bad. It's not much different from me eating meat. My KSB started off on live and I felt bad when the mouse would squeak out in pain, they were pinkies but they still do it. I know it makes no sense to feel bad, other than I am an animal lover. He eats frozen now so I'm happy and he's happy :D

[Shauna0522]

I too love all animals and that is one of the reasons I will only feed Frozen thawed mice/rats because if I had to hear them cry I would be crying to. It still makes me sad to feed the mice to my baby girl because alive or not they are still cute but it is getting easier the more I do it. Although I would never be able to think of it as a steak on my plate because my steak can't look at me while I eat it. Lol I can't eat anything that can look at me. :) 😂

[regi375]

The good news is that either one you go with will be on mice it's entire life. I've had hamsters/rodents in the past (currently own 3 rats), and I haven't had an issue with feeding frozen/thawed at all. I just view it as food.

For a change of pace though, I'd like to share my personal experiences with you. I currently own both western hosnoses and a Kenyan sand boa. They both are fairly different behavior wise.
With my Kenyan Sand Boa, it looks like I just own a tank full of sand most of the time. While both species like to hide and burrow, I see my western hognoses more often than I do my sand boa. They're both not really display species though. I've had some feeding issues with both of them at the start. I have to put my sand boa in a small container with a pinky for him to eat. I tried this method with my hognoses, and it only worked for one of them. I find it best to just leave the pinky in their hide for a day, as I haven't come back to discover an uneaten one yet. My sand boa is a lot more relaxed with handling. He'll just cruise around trying to find a spot to hide or burrow into. My hognoses are a different story. They'll hiss, puff out, and strike out with their snoots. It took me a while to get over their defensive behavior and stop flinching every time they struck out. Biting, however, is not part of their defensive behavior. I haven't been bitten by either of the ones I own. They have, with time, calmed down a bit as well. Either one is a great choice, and I wish you good luck with whichever one you pick. :)

[kazz]

Does anyone have tips or tricks to get over this?
1. you can buy a snake who eat eggs only.
2. you can phone to chicken farm and take a non hatching chicken. Not everyone chicken can hatch and they die. Farmers throw them to a trash. But if they freeze them you can use them as a food.

[CameraSkunk]

I just got my first snake this week on the 1st. A beautiful Sand Boa. You'll love him or her. As for feeding I understand the feeling. However as you said this is Nature and best to think of it as food. At the very least in the case of your snake, nothing goes to waste like when we eat beef or chicken. The snake utilizes nutrients from every part of the food that it is fed.

As one person mentioned there are other snakes that you can get that do not feed on rodents but they all come with some manor of feeding on protein of some sort.

Garter snakes for instance will feed on little fish. (If you go this route do your research you have to watch out for thiaminese i think is the word. Some fish contain a chemical that can cause deficiencies in the snake.)
There are egg eating snakes, though at times it can be hard to find appropriately sized eggs for the snake. Asian markets help with this sometimes.

[StevenL]

Seeing the destruction mice and rats do living in the country here in the Midwest, I've never had any "feelings" for a rodent other than how to dispatch of it. I'm fully prepared to be tagged cold hearted but that can't be further from the truth. I'm just a realist and have a full grasp on this thing called life. Have a mouse chew wiring up in your house or have your vehicle not start because a rat gnawed the wiring harness up, it gets pretty easy to feed them to a snake. Now rabbits and squirrels are quite tough for me to feed to a snake. I get pretty jealous because I'm not eating them.

I have been to a lot of slaughter houses over the years and I won't describe the process. I know too many people enjoy their Big Mac's and 12 ounce Ribeye's, don't want to ruin that for anyone.

The one post about feeding snakes eggs. I've been to a lot of those operations too. I will refrain from details on that also other than a layer at the end of her egg production life cannot walk and Campbell's Soup is a staple we have all enjoyed for years.

[kazz]

StevenL, nobody catch mice or rats at house to feed snakes. So it's just not comparable about rats as home pets and rats who destroy a house.

[StevenL]

StevenL, nobody catch mice or rats at house to feed snakes. So it's just not comparable about rats as home pets and rats who destroy a house.

Well Kazz I do respect your opinion but a rat is a rat. But with your analogy then it should be no problem allowing a "pet" rat or mouse having free range in your house uncaged. Since it is a pet, I'm sure it will not chew holes through the walls nor will it disturb any food in the pantry. I bet it will even let it's self out at night to go pee.

A snake has to eat and that should be thought of long before entertaining the idea of owning a snake. Then to get a snake and put yourself through emotional stress because you are feeding it rats and mice I just don't understand. They do have pets that require no food and no care, they are called pet rocks.

[jjhill001]

I remember back before I had a regular access to FT animals I had to kill them myself (as humanely as possible). That's why if you pick up an old care book you'll see recommendations to feed pre-killed or frozen thawed rodents. Nowadays you just see frozen rodents recommended because they are available pretty much anywhere.

It's not an easy thing to kill an animal, particularly an animal that can be considered by some to be a pet (I personally like mice/rats more than hamsters).

It is certainly understandable to have trepidation about it. I recommend going to petsmart or somewhere that sells frozen thawed mice and just open up one of the boxes and look at a dead mouse. If that's something you can deal with then you should have no problem. It also helps that you see it in a little food box in a freezer.

That said, it's important to remember that these animals are bred for this specific purpose. They are killed as humanely as possible and as long as you have a snake that's already eating frozen thawed rodents you shouldn't ever need to offer live options.

[Scubadiver59]

When I feed live, I always say..."For those of you about to die, we salute you." Kind of what Hollywood always puts in movies that have gladiator fight scenes.

[kazz]

I think all ppl who feed alive snimals are sadistic. They just enjoy when someone is suffer.

btw I have bought unhatched quails 3.7kg for 3.7$

[DJC Reptiles]

I think all ppl who feed alive snimals are sadistic. They just enjoy when someone is suffer.

btw I have bought unhatched quails 3.7kg for 3.7$

Don't you feed live fish to your carpet? Telling someone they are sadistic for offering live food items is not only, judgmental, but cruel and repugnant. Do you not eat meat? Are you a vegetarian? Snakes prey on living rodents, that is the nature of life. I do not believe most of anyone enjoys the pain and suffering of the rodent, but when snakes do not eat frozen thawed, then it is the owner's responsibility to provide their pet with what it needs. You can judge someone for feeding live prey, that is your right, but, when you accuse all people who feed live prey of being sadistic, that is where I take offense. I take this as an insult, and even though I do not feed live, I understand with those that have no choice. Clearly though you don't care.

[kazz]

Don't you feed live fish to your carpet?
nope. those fish was frozen.
Snakes prey on living rodents, that is the nature of life.
Nature it's when live rodent has a chance to not be eaten.
I do not believe most of anyone enjoys the pain and suffering of the rodent
Sadistics don't tell you they enjoys roden't suffering bc of morality.

[EL Ziggy]

If a snake eats f/t there's really no reason to feed live. Most of us feed f/t because it's easier and more humane but whether you feed live or f/t the prey still has to be killed and I doubt it's a completely painless experience for the prey. All life is sacred imo but I also understand that animals, humans included, eat other animals to survive. There may very well be some folks who get a "thrill" out of feeding live but I believe that's a very small minority of keepers. Most of us care about not only our animals but all animals. To call anyone who feeds live sadistic is way out of bounds.

[DJC Reptiles]

nope. those fish was frozen.

Nature it's when live rodent has a chance to not be eaten.

Sadistics don't tell you they enjoys roden't suffering bc of morality.

Sadistics are a very small minority of people in the reptile community, and I advise you to not call all people who feed live animals sadistic, that is way too far. And yes, in nature a live rodent has the chance to not be eaten, but this is not nature. If someone were to pick up a pet snake, and forbid, the snake does not eat f/t, then they must feed live, and it is their responsibility to do so. Most keepers who feed live maybe started out feeding live, but were then able to switch to f/t after a short while. Keep in mind some snakes will only take live, and as painful as it is to watch, you have a responsibility to your new pet. How do you think meat is prepared for humans? Probably not humanely. Does that make everyone who eat meat sadistic, absolutely not.

[kazz]

Does that make everyone who eat meat sadistic, absolutely not.
Ok I need to say ppl who enjoy feed alive are sadistic.

[StevenL]

I rarely feed live due to safety for my snake and convenience for me. Being raised in small town USA and living outside of a city, I've always understood real world when it comes to survival for man or beast. I can watch a fox eat chickens and not cringe. Watch a Red Tail Hawk snatch a squirrel from a tree branch and marvel at it's skill navigating danger to reach it's meal. Do I enjoy it? No. Do I despise it? No. Does it bother me? No. I have butchered deer, cattle, hogs, etc. It is called life. To paint anyone as sadistic for feeding live prey then have to be told to rephrase your statement is pretty sad. But hey, it is your opinion and I can live with that. I'm a bible thumping Midwest Christian and to forgive is my middle name. Give me a 20 ounce steak medium rare and I could care less how it got killed getting to me. And furthermore I know I don't have to worry how much Vitamin B1 it contains. Pass the steak sauce please.

[kazz]

Give me a 20 ounce steak medium rare and I could care less how it got killed getting to me. And furthermore I know I don't have to worry how much Vitamin B1 it contains.
it doesn't matter bc thiaminase is destroyed by temperature while cooking

[kazz]

So I get 3.7kg of unhatched quails in eggs. My snake eat them great. Unhatched quails are birds who can't developed correctly and didn't born. So no worry about guilt.

[jjhill001]

I don't really care, but why is this in the field herping section?

[DJC Reptiles]

I don't really care, but why is this in the field herping section?

Hey? Your right, I didn't even notice, that's hilarious.

[Snakegirl2017]

Attempting my first feeding with frozen/thawed as I type...I currently own a hamster so I thought it might be hard..but I tell myself it's just food..a meatball if you will...and well, I will have to let you know how it turns out. I am just praying he eats the thing...ROFL!