Trying to fit things in

[Heidyth]

https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22789185_10214221938934607_2347096775513849903_n.j pg?oh=2c164117938bc1d69348cf152bda4436&oe=5A7CA0F2

So far this is what I am thinking about for the baby hognose I will be getting. I am still not happy with where the water is. I plan to make the square hide on the warm side. I may find something other than the coconut hut for the cool side. My thought for the square on the hot side is that I can put some damp moss in if needed to help with shedding. I am not planning to keep it moist all the time. I put the rock in the water dish so it can get out easier. I don't know if that is needed. Any suggestion welcome. I am also looking in to getting a thermostat for the under the tank heater. I was told that the heat pad would be sufficient for heating. The babies I saw were only a few inches long. They were coiled in their dish just coming back from the reptile show so it is hard to know for sure how big they are.

[Jim Smith]

The purpose of a hide is so that the snake feels "hidden" and comfortable. The clear hide probably needs to be replaced with an opaque object. Also, you will be amazed at how small a hide they may need when they're babies. They like to feel secure, so they coil up in very small places. As nice as the pine root looks, I would remove it at least until you get your snake into a larger enclosure. If those are vent holes along the sides of the tub, I think that you will have a difficult time maintaining the temperatures that you want for your snake. Typically, people use opaque "rubbermaid" type tubs and drill or melt a series of small (3/16 inch) ventilation holes along the sides; perhaps 4 along each end and 8 along the sides. Last of all, what bedding materials will you be using? I prefer SaniChips because they have less dust than Aspen and are easier for spot cleaning when the snake defecates. Have you considered getting a larger container for your new baby? I know that some people feel that larger containers stress out babies, but there is no evidence that this is the case. The only stress they would have is if the owner is "chasing" the snake around the enclosure trying to capture it for some reason. I put my baby BRBs in 24x36x14 inch enclosures when they arrived as babies and they used every bit of their enclosures for exploring etc. Just a thought...

[Minkness]

The container is fine since hognoses don't require much humidity. However all the stuff in it can go away. Use a loose substrate that they can burrow in and smaller hides. Even a toilet paper role cut in half (long ways) is perfect for a baby hognose. Offer covering type hide which is as simple as dom fake plants laid on their side. The water bowl is fine, if a bit large, and you'll probably find that the hognose will spend most of it's time shoved up under it.

Good luck!

[Heidyth]

I have a 10 gallon tank which is why I wanted a hognose in the first place. The shop said it would be scared in it. I was thinking about using toilet paper rolls for hides. I asked about using them on the shops fb page in a pm message but they didn't answer that question. I have the 10 gallon all cleaned up and ready to fill. I have been reading about heating and I was concerned about that with the little box. I read about heat panels is that a better way to go? Plus I need to get a thermostat. I seem to recall everything loves to go under the water bowl LOL hence why I opted for the heavier ceramic thinking it couldn't go under it. (Something tells me I am dreaming LOL) I also am concerned about the water bowl being to light weight. I have a small feed bowl from my hermit crab set up. I was thinking sani chips. Can they tunnel well in it? Or does it collapse? I have to as cheap as possible no more than about $50 a month on products but I don't want to not set up a good tank. If it takes a few more months to get what I need I will just be patient. Already buying the box and the UTH 1 to 5 gallon size heating pad and not being good enough sets me back. But the animal needs come first. I would rather put it in the 10 gallon. I have no idea how much heat panels cost. I have only ever used the UTH.

This is what I am looking at:
Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage, 1100w, w/ Sensor: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B011296704/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3H3KPI7YR32AR&colid=36OLPTZ1OB8AA

Two one for each side of the tank. Zoo Med Digital Terrarium Thermometer: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000MD3MFA/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I1H8TIXUW1B41C&colid=36OLPTZ1OB8AA

[Heidyth]

Thank you for the help Jim Smith and Minkness. I am so excited and so glad I found the forums. I will play with the tank and more photos. My mind is already wondering what I can put in the little tank.

[Heidyth]

https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22852994_10214227591755924_8004136136375978019_n.j pg?oh=ad03315981b16c74e6a2ff47df618b88&oe=5A712F5F So here is try number 2. I put both water bowls I am thinking of using. I am just concerned the small one will get dumped and is not big enough if the snake wants to soak for some reason.

[Jim Smith]

MUCH better! Add some sort of bedding and a small under the take heat mat with a thermostat and you should be good to go. Your baby shouldn't be able to dump the water bowl until he's much larger. I use plastic Tortilla bowls for water bowls in my BRB's and they work great. Nice and stable, light enough to handle easily when empty, but heavy enough that the snakes never try to tip them over and they are super easy to clean. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/tortilla-server-8-1-2-brown/407TK85.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwssvPBRBBEiwASFoVd3jELyJ3MhWxph7dLsYr s5UjpyY4VsJYgttkcPPgzdSeOeKdmTS19BoC3OsQAvD_BwE

I'm sure that your new Hoggie will do great and bring you years of enjoyment.

[Heidyth]

Thanks Jim Nov I will get the heat mat and thermostat. That means by December I will be giving myself a hoggy for the holidays! I happen to have a restaurant supply store down the street so I will take a look at the tortilla bowls. Thanks for the link I could not picture a tortilla bowl and felt silly when I saw it. I also need to get some locks for the screen lid. With a thermostat do I need a thermometer? Will the ones that stick to the side of the tank suffice ? Or should I go with the digital placed at substrate level?

[akane]

To add a little cost to your equipment if you want to thoroughly keep track of things....

A digital thermometer and humidity gauge (the needle analog version is crap) is good for constantly measuring ambient levels and confirming your thermostat. Reptile specific brands are limited in function and overpriced compared to what you can get for basic weather monitoring or your indoor health. Indoor ones may be dirt cheap just to have something at first but you have to be careful not to directly mist them or drop them in dampened bedding. A corn snake knocked down and buried my couple dollar one in damp substrate while digging around his hide. It flicked back on for awhile when dried but then permanently died a month later. While less useful for 1 snake the price of the ones I have now is pretty good. This set starts cheap while you can keep adding sensors if you get more reptiles or want to measure the room and upgrade the base station provided it's the same brand to a higher quality one when I have the money. I have the base station just measuring conditions at my desk for my own bronchitis while the sensors cover geckos and snakes in 4 rooms on 2 levels of the house. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071ZFS7D1/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
There are other brands in smaller squares or with a probe cable but it's hard to find probes that also do humidity without having to set something inside. I've stuck some sensors to the back of hides or under the bottom of caves with velcro to read from there without being seen but harder to hide it and get a useful reading somewhere with a tiny baby snake. It's worth it over just putting in a small stick thermometer and the stupid reptile specific brand thermometer with probe I picked up in an emergency while transporting a snake was over $20. It's had a use dropping it through a hole drilled in my transport bin so I don't have to open it to know the overall temp of any reptile contained in there but more expensive to be useful for details of enclosures.


However, I actually bought a temp gun first because it can read every inch of every surface in the enclosure with colubrids or rosy boas that mostly adjust themselves by surfaces. If you want ambient temp you can sometimes find a neutral object that shouldn't be getting residual heat from anything beyond the surrounding air for a fair reading. I use it for random things all the time including that outside the enclosures. Measure the door that isn't near an air vent and I have whatever the air around it is on that level of the room or I was measuring my bee sting on my arm once lol It's slightly more accurate if you adjust it to a specific material but not that much so aside from the fact you have to go manually open the enclosure to get a reading you point and pull the trigger on nearly anything (not water) making them quite useful over the single spot reading of a thermometer. The one in my order links was over a year ago so now says unavailable but they are all pretty identical with some $10 ones in the related items links.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I6N0PQG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Heidyth]

I have been wondering about the temp gun. Would that replace the need for thermometers inside the habitat? I have a small thermometer from a set of thermometer hygrometer cheap set I bout when I had hermit crabs. I have used that thermometer for a few years all over the house. U sed it to make sure where I was making a sourdough bread stater was sitting. I have it sitting in the tank on the bottom glass (no snake in tank) I just wondered how the temp is where I am thinking of keeping the snake. It is staying around 71F. With my lid not having a way to get a probe in. I don't know what to do. I have been meaning to ask about that too. I do like the thought of being able to use a temp gun to read several parts of the tank. I am planning to record all heating temps on both sides of the tank and even over the heat pad under the bedding to make sure the glass is not to hot. I wii also be recording snake weight before feeding and a couple days after it has eaten so I know if it starts loosing weight for some reason. I already have a good scale that I use for baking bread. I actually like recording things even for myself being diabetic... It just gives me a clearer picture of what I can not see.

[Andy_G]

A few pointers in addition to what has been mentioned (great info by the way everybody!);

- I would advise using some kind of loose substrate such as aspen or sani chip when the time comes. Your hognose will be more comfortable burrowing and in a tank it's almost a necessity for them in order to feel secure at first. This caters to the fact that a snake is a positively thigmotactic animal, meaning that it will seek contact with objects in order to feel secure. This trait is amplified in burrowing species. You may luck out with an outgoing oddball but don't rely on this luck. Assuming you are getting a hatchling, if you were using a smaller tub I would say paper substrate would work but in a tank I would advise against it for the above reasoning.

- Cover the sides and the back with something. Anything will do. This will increase privacy and security of your snake.

-Temp guns only measure surface temperatures, not ambient temps, so it will not completely eliminate the need for thermometers but it is still a necessity.

-In order to have a hognose feed consistently, you need to achieve an ambient in the low 80's and offer a hot spot in the low 90's, I have always been an advocate of a 10 degree gradient for most temperate and tropical species (82 ambient, 92 hot spot for example is what I like with hognose) but this will vary from keeper to keeper. Before anyone thinks of mentioning it...yes, they do have a very wide range of habitat in the wild and experience much cooler temps then this and they still eat (much less regularly of course) and function...but there are many other factors that are involved between captive versus wild (natural UV, air qualities, habitat and predation factors, wind, dietary differences, all babies surviving in captivity verses only the strongest in the wild...just to name a few) so why not give them constant ideal conditions if we can? Depending on the ambient temps in your house and the type of caging used, you may have to use a bulb/che to achieve these ambient temps as well as using undertank heating for the hot spot. It is something you'll have to play with so it's good you have begun already that way you can work out any bugs.

-As previously mentioned, the dial thermometers and hygrometers are usually junk and highly inaccurate. There are inexpensive digital options that would be better suited for your snake.

- You can easily place the probe for the heat pad on the heat pad outside of the caging but keep in mind doing this may cause fluctuations of a couple degrees depending on how the room ambients fluctuate. Generally you don't want to have a probe inside the cage if you will be using any kind of tape...tape almost always creates a very bad situation eventually where the snake becomes stuck to it somehow.

- Many of us who have been keeping multiple animals for a long time rarely record normal things such as feedings, sheds and weights as we are able to observe and judge when a snake needs food by their behaviour as well as their last BM, but it takes some time to get comfortable doing this. Be very careful to not overanalyze or overthink recording everything at first, as sometimes you can be your own worst enemy. Feedings and sheds and perhaps a monthly weight if you wish should really be all you need to record at most, as well as dating any abnormalities in the case that you needed to see a vet. Some will be very meticulous with their records and will even record BMs...but if you see a poop after feeding everything is fine so I often fail to see the purpose of this specifically. If you do want to weigh more regularly as you are describing, do so only before feeding after the snake has emtied itself and hasn't eaten, doing so the other way will show repeated loss of a few grams simply due to passing said waste and could be a false sign of something wrong for a keeper. Many of us who have been keeping multiple animals for a long time rarely record these things as we are able to observe and judge when a snake needs food by their behaviour as well as their last BM (roughly), but it takes some time to get comfortable doing this. I honestly only weigh my animals every couple of months purely out of curiosity. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...or rather...if it ain't broke, don't drive youself crazy looking for signs that it is. :)

-Hognose snakes shouldn't soak unless perhaps in a shed. If the snake soaks, you should be concerned. Mites, excessive heat, as well as lack of security (water pacifies a positively thigmotactic animal really well) would all be reasons for a hognose snake to soak. You can use either dish, but the larger one is very big. If you do use the larger one, the weight of the water in it would realistically be enough to stop the snake from dumping it so the rock isn't needed for weight if that was the intention.

- Hognose snake have a reputation of being picky feeders. Usually it's because of a temp drop, sometimes it's stress related... basically almost always husbandry related...but some just stop eating for no reason. Keep in mind that you should only worry if the snake has had sudden extreme weight loss in excess of 15-20% of their body weight. Have patience, don't worry if they miss the odd feeding and just try again at the next scheduled feed, and most importantly, don't handle a snake that isn't eating unless absolutely necessary...and once you get your little one please don't handle it until it has eaten a few times a row in your care.

Hope some of this helps you.

[Heidyth]

Thank you Andy G,
I plan to use a couple inches of sani chips as that is what the reptile store uses and suggests.

I can cover the tank outside with cut up paper bags. I am also thinking of keeping the tank in the bedroom so it feels more secure. I would love having it on the dinning room table that has never been ate at LOL. I live alone but I do constantly walk past the table and I don't want to scare him. How much of the tank should I cover?

Thanks for the temps you keep yours at. I have a note pad with about 10 different specs on it from different care pages. I will get 2 thermometers plus the IR gun.

may have to use a bulb/che to achieve these ambient temps as well as using undertank heating for the hot spot. It is something you'll have to play with.

I will pick up a bulb/ che. What watt/size? I don't know what a CHE is but will research it. I am thinking it is a coil type emitter that screws into a heat light fixture? I would think like a heat bulb it goes out of the tank above it, off to the side? Moving it to create the hot spot. Would I want to lean the branch on the side of the tank on the warm side so it can get as close/far as it wants. I would prefer to not have the light on in the bedroom while sleeping. I keep second shift hours and covered my window in foil to keep the light out. I plan to put some sort of light on the tank for viewing. Thinking about an LED

I will pick up a few digital thermometers.

Thanks for explaining the probe placement on the pad. That makes a lot more sense. I couldn't figure out how to safely get a probe inside the tank that would not involve becoming a nice escape hatch, or damaging the wires.

I started laughing when you said don't over analyze. I have a habit of over analyzing everything. I will calm down and take a deep breath.

I guess hognose don't soak. I thought it might like it. LOL the rock is in there so it can get out of the bowl if it got in. I can use the smaller bowl.

From what I have read I plan to not handle it for a couple weeks to let it adjust. I will feed according to how it is being fed by the shop. I have tongs on my shopping list. I have also read that people put them in a separate container to feed. I have also read about scenting the prey.

Thank you all for all your help. I can't wait to get my lil guy or girl. I will be taking pictures and posting. Plus I am sure to have more questions.

[Andy_G]

I completely advise against separate feeding containers but do as you wish and come to your own conclusion as to what will work best for you.

[Heidyth]

I completely advise against separate feeding containers but do as you wish and come to your own conclusion as to what will work best for you.

Thank you. I will not be feeding separate.

[jjhill001]

Gonna add my two cents in. The water bowl is fine. I've used similar bowls and I've honestly never seen one get spilled. Not sure why, just luck I suppose. The thermostat for a heat mat is definitely important, not to harp but I do like to bring it up.

I would recommend against sani-chips as they really don't offer much to the snake compared to other substrates such as aspen or forest floor cypress mulch bedding which both allow the snake to burrow, and hognoses are big time burrowers. Sani-chips just make it easier to clean out feces, which is important to a shop or breeder that may be keeping many animals, it isn't really that big of a deal until you're getting up there in amount of snakes. They are technically fine, if you already bought them don't feel the need to waste money and go buy something else but if you haven't I'd look into one of those two substrates instead.

Plus sani-chips stick to food items like glue and while it's not likely to cause any harm I'm sure it'll drive you up a wall with worry given that you've said that you over-analyze everything.

When your snake is a baby those little rolls will be fine for hides but something to keep in mind is that you can cut a hole in the side or lid of something like a cream cheese container or small (longer/wider than it is tall) tupperware container then just fill most of the way full with sphagnum moss or even just some substrate to make secure hides. They aren't very sightly but they do get the job done on a budget pretty well.

As far as bulbs and stuff, keep in mind that, particularly when your snake is small it's pretty much gonna be 100% on the ground right on the heat pad and quite frankly it may not be necessary depending on how warm your house is. That and thermostat controlled lights are annoying as crap and if you have a CHE you probably aren't gonna need the heat pad at all because you can just hook that up to a thermostat and run it the same way you would the heat pad.

Hognoses are North American colubrids and do well with a daytime temp around 75-84 Fahrenheit range so you only have to bump the temps by a little bit in most households.

Otherwise congrats on your decision to get a snake and let me know if you have any questions about what I mentioned here.

[Heidyth]

Thank you jjhill001 I go back and forth on the sani chips. I have worked with them in the past with rodents and I definitely know how much they stick like glue to everything. I keep picturing a pinky covered in it going down my snake and cringe. I already have a heat pad. I have heard that hognose like hot spot closer to the low 90's. That is why I was thinking of going with the che and heat pad. I have decided to go with the smaller enclosure but not with everything in it. I don't know how warm a heat pad gets. Plus a silly question um does the heat pad plug into the thermostat and then you set the temp on the thermostat and the probe on the pad to make sure it stays the right temp? https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22853273_10214261059472596_1352045659842118031_n.j pg?oh=7dd425389279b5ec96bf6de5fdb3cd5f&oe=5A77116D

[Heidyth]

I just looked at the forest floor cypress mulch bedding. It is said to be great for holding humidity. It is my understanding that hognose like low humidity so I thing I should go with the aspen bedding.

[akane]

Your thermostat goes between your power and your heat source to shut it off or in some cases work as a dimmer if it's a more expensive version and your heat source can work that way. You then need to correspond where you place the probe and what the ranges are from your heat source(s) to set the max temp for it.

I have fed everything else in the enclosure right away but with the few week old pine snakes I did find it useful to remove them to a darkened small plastic container for feeding at first. Unlike my slightly to much older previous snakes or at least being already separated to a larger display tank with substrate I took them from their little rack bin with siblings to 24x17" natural substrate and multiple rock hide living quarters. They promptly got lost, tried to climb up when they ran into these weird objects, failed to find the gaps into the hides for a few days, didn't go looking for food, etc... After a few weeks when they had hides and digging figured out they were just more annoyed with being removed so I started shoving the pinkies under the edge of the hide they had established as their favorites. They figured that out by the 2nd time until I moved them to even more complex display tanks with exposure to people. The female apparently went whatever and this log is awesome for digging under and eating off of while moving up in food size the male has gone into hiding in his deeper substrate. I keep losing track of him in it and he has not eaten despite trying mice fuzzies instead and tweaking conditions a little. Before I start pulling him out for meals again or removing some of the obstacles so he has less options I was waiting to see if he might be shedding given the female did weeks ago. Even within species they all vary and the female has eaten double what the male has from the start and would happily eat double that again if you kept handing it to her.

[Heidyth]

Thanks akane that is pretty much how I pictured in my mind that the thermostat worked. I just wanted to double check. Back when I had snakes before my now ex had them long before we met. So I never questioned anything. I know now that a lot of how they were kept was not the best and I don't want to make mistakes. Oh hindsight makes things better when given another chance.

[jjhill001]

I just looked at the forest floor cypress mulch bedding. It is said to be great for holding humidity. It is my understanding that hognose like low humidity so I thing I should go with the aspen bedding.

It'll hold humidity well, but if you don't spray it with water it won't be humid. If it gets a little wet from the snake being in the water bowl or it spills once it's no big deal. Just let it dry out and the humidity change will be negligible.

[Heidyth]

Thank you all. jjhill001 thanks for being patient about the mulch bedding humidity. When I read your reply I kind of did an "Oh duh" LOL I do like the look better than the aspen. Can it be washed and reused or just best to toss the cypress mulch? I saw and add for repti bark that said it could be washed in hot water. Is it just me or does that not sound like a good idea? I worry about it not killing the bacteria etc I want to get 3 or 4 hides so he has a good choice in different temp ranges and just more variety. I have heard that some of these guys like to climb around a bit so I will make sure he has something to do that on if he wants. I also plan to get him a T8 bulb so he gets the UVB. I have read that they don't need it but that it helps with activity and eating problems. I figure if they have access to the light in nature it can't hurt. As long as I keep it to a T8. Stronger like a T5 is said to be to much.

[jjhill001]

Thank you all. jjhill001 thanks for being patient about the mulch bedding humidity. When I read your reply I kind of did an "Oh duh" LOL I do like the look better than the aspen. Can it be washed and reused or just best to toss the cypress mulch? I saw and add for repti bark that said it could be washed in hot water. Is it just me or does that not sound like a good idea? I worry about it not killing the bacteria etc I want to get 3 or 4 hides so he has a good choice in different temp ranges and just more variety. I have heard that some of these guys like to climb around a bit so I will make sure he has something to do that on if he wants. I also plan to get him a T8 bulb so he gets the UVB. I have read that they don't need it but that it helps with activity and eating problems. I figure if they have access to the light in nature it can't hurt. As long as I keep it to a T8. Stronger like a T5 is said to be to much.

Honestly there is a huge bacteria fear that really is overblown. If you're removing poops regularly and replacing the surrounding bedding you can go months without changing it with no problems.

The bacteria that can actually make your snake sick are already on it's skin and inside of it's body. The second you put a snake back into an enclosure you just sterilized with bleach or whatever overpriced reptile stuff someone tells you to buy, the bacteria goes from the snake back to all over the cage. Cleanliness is important in my opinion, however this obsession with sterility you see should be reserved for quarantine situations.

[Andy_G]

Sani chips may stick to things but there are very easy ways around that and they are infinitely easier for a young hognose to pass than some of the other larger more jagged substrates out there if ingested. They also like it just fine for burrowing. I can understand why it wouldn't be everyone's first choice, though. Getting some good ideas and advice here Heidyth. :)

[Heidyth]

I have a couple questions 1) If the snake does not have mites when you get them and they are the only animal other than a fish aquarium in the house can they get mites still? I don't plan on holding other animals even at a herp show. 2) I have read that a few like to swim even when healthy. So would the larger water bowl with the rock so it can get out, be ok? I would also have a rock leading up to the bowl so he can get in easier.

[akane]

It does seem obsessive to need to be able to 100% sterilize everything compared to practically every other animal we keep with reused slightly to completely absorbent items that are scrubbed with mild, nontoxic cleaners at best. I've got mammal and bird wood houses, perches, shelves, and toys or mildly absorbent brick and rock reused for years if they aren't chewed up with mostly hot water scrubs and only vinegar for antibacterial. It's overall nontoxic to most of the actual animals I keep and the acid simply gases off if you are careful of items that can absorb too deeply for enough air exposure. I use stronger cleaners on bird grates and cage pans or lower ph acid than vinegar like oxalic acid based sprays on glass mostly to get things off completely without the effort or damage to the surfaces hand scrubbing with rougher materials rather than to kill bacteria completely. Carnivorous animals of all types have more types of bacteria present in their digestive tracts than most herbivores we keep but they end up being more resistant to it when we aren't talking about situations like wounds that can be infected. Provided the levels are kept low it's pretty normal and impossible to avoid exposure in the environment. It's also been shown repeatedly in humans and various animals to prevent health issues and improve resistance to more infections not to be kept completely sterile most of the time.

I worry more about mold with natural materials it can feed on. While most is not truly toxic few animals are as durable to fungi as common bacteria. It's easier to kill but if you give it something to grow on it's more persistent without needing more waste added to have more fuel. Without a bioactive cleanup crew I'd have to be a lot more picky about what I use if it's going to get at all damp. I've had far more mold problems around the house than I've had bacterial infections in any species that the immune system couldn't destroy without further treatment when some initial fungal or pest that allowed it to survive in irritated tissue was eliminated.

[Heidyth]

Thanks akane. Do you use diluted vinegar? I use 50/50 water and vinegar around the house.

[jjhill001]

It does seem obsessive to need to be able to 100% sterilize everything compared to practically every other animal we keep with reused slightly to completely absorbent items that are scrubbed with mild, nontoxic cleaners at best. I've got mammal and bird wood houses, perches, shelves, and toys or mildly absorbent brick and rock reused for years if they aren't chewed up with mostly hot water scrubs and only vinegar for antibacterial. It's overall nontoxic to most of the actual animals I keep and the acid simply gases off if you are careful of items that can absorb too deeply for enough air exposure. I use stronger cleaners on bird grates and cage pans or lower ph acid than vinegar like oxalic acid based sprays on glass mostly to get things off completely without the effort or damage to the surfaces hand scrubbing with rougher materials rather than to kill bacteria completely. Carnivorous animals of all types have more types of bacteria present in their digestive tracts than most herbivores we keep but they end up being more resistant to it when we aren't talking about situations like wounds that can be infected. Provided the levels are kept low it's pretty normal and impossible to avoid exposure in the environment. It's also been shown repeatedly in humans and various animals to prevent health issues and improve resistance to more infections not to be kept completely sterile most of the time.

I worry more about mold with natural materials it can feed on. While most is not truly toxic few animals are as durable to fungi as common bacteria. It's easier to kill but if you give it something to grow on it's more persistent without needing more waste added to have more fuel. Without a bioactive cleanup crew I'd have to be a lot more picky about what I use if it's going to get at all damp. I've had far more mold problems around the house than I've had bacterial infections in any species that the immune system couldn't destroy without further treatment when some initial fungal or pest that allowed it to survive in irritated tissue was eliminated.

I just use hot water in my enclosures that aren't bioactive.

[Aaron_S]

I found hognoses suck at swimming moreso than other species of snakes. I'd keep the water dish as is.

[Andy_G]

I have a couple questions 1) If the snake does not have mites when you get them and they are the only animal other than a fish aquarium in the house can they get mites still? I don't plan on holding other animals even at a herp show. 2) I have read that a few like to swim even when healthy. So would the larger water bowl with the rock so it can get out, be ok? I would also have a rock leading up to the bowl so he can get in easier.

Mites that are a plague for us keepers are tropical snake mites. They are only found in the wild areas without a cold winter or found in captivity on infected snakes as well as possibly bedding that has been kept near the infected captive. They have to originate from one of these sources for the snake to have them. In regards to the water question, out of the 20ish or so adults I have had as well as the couple thousand babies I have hatched, I have never had one that enjoys being in the water without one of the reasons I have provided earlier in this thread.

[Heidyth]

Thanks I will keep the small water dish.

[jjhill001]

Thanks I will keep the small water dish.

I've got to agree with Andy, outside of severe dehydration or parasites a snake has really no reason other than predators or hunting (think water snakes) to get into water which lowers body temp and therefore the ability of the snake to be active.

I imagine that the anecdotes about water bowls you've mentioned are coming from folks who are keeping their snakes too hot. Happens with colubrids a lot because many of the caresheets out nowadays are old and still call for the 90+ degree hotspots and warm ambient's that just aren't beneficial to the vast majority of North American colubrids.

[Andy_G]

I imagine that the anecdotes about water bowls you've mentioned are coming from folks who are keeping their snakes too hot. Happens with colubrids a lot because many of the caresheets out nowadays are old and still call for the 90+ degree hotspots and warm ambient's that just aren't beneficial to the vast majority of North American colubrids.

In regards to most of the caresheets on hognose snakes, the opposite would be true. Any care sheets suggesting temps without this kind of hotspot would be outdated and written in times where nobody could get their snakes feeding consistently and pooly calficied eggs plagued a lot of breeders. Temps of 80-82 to 90-92 will not cause soaking in western hognose snakes but will alleviate most feeding and reproductive issues. If one doesn't mind encountering these issues, by all means go with the "normal" temp ranges for other north american colubrids of low 70's to low 80's.

[jjhill001]

In regards to most of the caresheets on hognose snakes, the opposite would be true. Any care sheets suggesting temps without this kind of hotspot would be outdated and written in times where nobody could get their snakes feeding consistently and pooly calficied eggs plagued a lot of breeders. Temps of 80-82 to 90-92 will not cause soaking in western hognose snakes but will alleviate most feeding and reproductive issues. If one doesn't mind encountering these issues, by all means go with the "normal" temp ranges for other north american colubrids of low 70's to low 80's.

I'm not gonna claim that I'm an expert on hognoses but I've yet to see a snake that I can't keep the way I do. However until I grab one of these little guys I'll defer to those who have.

[Andy_G]

I'm not gonna claim that I'm an expert on hognoses but I've yet to see a snake that I can't keep the way I do. However until I grab one of these little guys I'll defer to those who have.

I don't doubt your skills. This species is an odd one...kind of similar to how central/south american cribos don't do great with the typical warmer temps of a lot of central american snakes.

[Heidyth]

So is the heat supplied by a UTH on a Thermostat set at 90F going to be a good range in a 10 gallon? I plan to have at least 3 hides plus about 2 to 4 inches of substrate as it grows. Is a basking lamp plus the UTH to much heat? I do plan to get a 32x16x16 approx. tank later when it becomes an adult.

[jjhill001]

So is the heat supplied by a UTH on a Thermostat set at 90F going to be a good range in a 10 gallon? I plan to have at least 3 hides plus about 2 to 4 inches of substrate as it grows. Is a basking lamp plus the UTH to much heat? I do plan to get a 32x16x16 approx. tank later when it becomes an adult.

Gonna depend on how big the heater is. I know Andy said 90F but I can't imagine half the tank being 90F being a good idea. More like a 1/3 or so. Lets see if he'll chime in again.

[Andy_G]

Gonna depend on how big the heater is. I know Andy said 90F but I can't imagine half the tank being 90F being a good idea. More like a 1/3 or so. Lets see if he'll chime in again.

Exactly right.

Depending on ambient temps, the light may be too much. You'll have to experiment with this and adjust accordingly.