LED or UV tube for pythons?

[scales.jp]

I'm getting a new viv built and have the option of either a 20 watt UV fluorescent tube or a similarly sized LED strip light. Personally, I don't like LED (they look like they're flickering), but then again I'm not a python. Any thoughts?

[TRD]

To give a complete spectrum, you'll need both + a normal incandescent/halogen light ..

LED doesn't give any UVa, reptiles can see UVa, and they do use UVb. But fluorescent light doesn't give off a continuous spectrum and is piss poor with reds (at least those UV lights are)

Will there also be live plants inside?

[scales.jp]

Will there also be live plants inside?

No, probably not. When I kept chameleons they had UV tubes, incandescent basking bulbs and lots of live plants. My snake enclosure will be much simpler, at least for the time being.

[TRD]

Then a UV tube (T8 or T5HO) over half the length of the enclosure combined with a heating light on the same half will give the snake all it needs in terms of light spectrum.

Depending on the distance between UV light and animal there are various options and configurations available.

No need to add LEDs.

[scales.jp]

Then a UV tube (T8 or T5HO) over half the length of the enclosure combined with a heating light on the same half will give the snake all it needs in terms of light spectrum.

Thanks. The viv dimensions will be 1100mm long x 550mm deep x 500mm tall. The UV tube is 580mm, so perfect. I'll be using two 76W overhead heat panels and one 38W UTH for heating, do I still need an incandescent bulb to assist the fluorescent tube?

[TRD]

No you dont need an Incandescent light in that case... just take care with UV that it is not too strong. Check here, it may assist you picking the right one: RAWG UV Tool - Fluorescent tubes (High-Output T5) Index (http://www.uvguide.co.uk/UVTool-T5tubeindex.htm)

[scales.jp]

No you dont need an Incandescent light in that case... just take care with UV that it is not too strong.

I'd read that UV tubes can produce too much UVB in relation to their brightness. The animal's pupils then dilate to let in more light, resulting in over-exposure to the UVB and ultimately blindness. The suggested solution was to use a bright incandescent bulb alongside the UV tube to restrict pupil dilation.

Perhaps this is outdated information, the tubes I've used in the past have all been very bright. The one I'll get for my snake is a 'soft' UV tube, with a relatively low UV output.

[TRD]

As long as the UV output is reasonable (around UVI of 1 for most snakes is enough) there's no need to worry. T5HO bulbs are sufficient bright to to cause issues these days, also many of the old bulbs are either some output in UVc (mainly (old) CFLs and this problem, and today still some cheap Chinese made UV basking lights are very dangerous) or too much output in the shorter wavelength UVb (around 290-295nm).

Also note that UVb bulbs generally do not appear bright to us as 5-14% output is in the UVb spectrum, about 30% is in the UVa spectrum, and almost everything else is in the visual spectrum for us. But reptiles can see UVa, so the lights are quite a bit brighter for them than for us.

For 500mm tall I would say a 6% T5HO mounted on the ceiling without a reflector is the most suited candidate. It isn't until 15cm close that I would say it would become unsuitable and it's powerful enough to still give UV exposure at 50cm distance. Only if there's a fine mesh (3mm or less) in between I would consider a reflector.

[scales.jp]

For 500mm tall I would say a 6% T5HO mounted on the ceiling without a reflector is the most suited candidate. It isn't until 15cm close that I would say it would become unsuitable and it's powerful enough to still give UV exposure at 50cm distance.

I was considering putting a shelf in the viv so my snake can get closer to the heat panels. Maybe not such a good idea if it'll put him closer to the UV light. I'll put the shelf nearer the opposite end.

The other thing is that Japanese fluorescent tube bases are all different sizes to the big name international brand tubes. I need a 20 watt tube, and in Japan that means 580mm. ZooMed bulbs are all in inches and are too long. That means I'll have to use a Japanese bulb, but most things made here are very high quality.

[jjhill001]

Use the less powerful bulbs if you can. You're just lighting the enclosure, even a simple tiny led strip with a few nodes can do enough.

[scales.jp]

Use the less powerful bulbs if you can. You're just lighting the enclosure, even a simple tiny led strip with a few nodes can do enough.

I'm going to have the UV tube base fitted as it needs wiring work done which I'd rather leave to a professional. Then I can use a low-intensity UV tube or change to an LED tube in the future. I know Timor pythons can be hard to enough to breed as it is, and having some UVA might be beneficial to put them "in the mood" if I decide to try my hand at breeding one day.

[scales.jp]

For 500mm tall I would say a 6% T5HO mounted on the ceiling without a reflector is the most suited candidate.

Looking at the tubes which will fit in my base unit (580mm), there are really only two choices available. The Soft UV tube looks like it might be the most suitable. Comparing them to the 6% T5HO, what do you think?

Soft UV/Power UVB
37406

Here's the Arcadia and ZooMed to compare them to:
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37408

This one also looks quite good (Level 5), but at 600mm I don't think it will fit in my base.
37409

Given the rate at which 580mm UV tubes seem to be disappearing from the market, I think I should stock up while I can!

[TRD]

That soft UV tube doesn't seem to have any significant UV at all (neither a nor b). The Arcadia and Zoomed seem to have the best spectrum to cover their vision.

Here's the key wavelengths of vision in a ball python

https://i.imgur.com/kewawIR.jpg

Also, just a side note, you can't apple for apple compare spectrometer graphs unless you know how they have been calculated.. the little white one's seem to be going by power rating in %, while the Arcadia one is drafted using absolute values.

[scales.jp]

That soft UV tube doesn't seem to have any significant UV at all (neither a nor b). The Arcadia and Zoomed seem to have the best spectrum to cover their vision.

The tube situation here seems ridiculous. All the fixtures are a set size, non-adjustable. The standard 20W size is 580mm, but only one company I can find makes UV tubes specifically for reptiles that length (the Soft UV and Power UVB tubes). I called another company today (HerpCraft) to see if their 594mm tube would fit in a standard base and they said no. They also said they didn't know what type of fixture their tubes will fit into! Why don't they just make them 14mm shorter!

ExoTerra used to make their tubes in standard Japanese sizes, but now only the international sizes are available. I think this is because more and more people are switching over to the twisty style bulbs for UVA/UVB and LED for lighting.

(Comparison of available tubes in post below....)

[scales.jp]

So basically my choice is the Power UVB (compared to the ZooMed 10.0):

37415
37418

or the Soft UV (compared to the ZooMed 2.0):
37416
37417

[TRD]

Well the soft UV will not do much, if it had some UVa it would be useful, but it basically has none. I'll check if I can find something on the PogonaClub PowerUVB as I'm not familiar with the brand.

[TRD]

So much Japanese :D

So I seem to find only charts down to the UVb, at or about the 300nm range. I don't find any information on this light below 300nm -- which is basically the danger zone. Many lights, even from familiar manufactures like Zilla, give off the dangerous wavelengths of UVb (shoft wavelength UVb) as well as some lights still emitting UVc.

I find only info in Japanese, so it's a bit difficult.

The Power UVb seems to be OK, though it's output is rather strong and comparable to a Zoomed 10.0, which is much too strong for a snake unless you put the light 50cm or so above the animal. You should check it's spectrum below the 300 nm though, it should end at about 290, and should never go below 280nm. ****** bulbs give out a small spike of UVc, like this one:

https://i.imgur.com/F5A6ify.jpg
source: Arjan Kassenberg, Reptile Lighting group (FB)

Or are much too strong in the UVb and pose dangers to reptiles, like this:

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/images/UV-Tool/DNA-VitD-ASspectrumOsramUVitalux.gif
source: RAWG UV Tool - Mercury Vapour Lamps - Osram UltraVitalux (http://www.uvguide.co.uk/UVTool-OsramUltravitalux.htm)

Not sure if importing from US/EU is an option.

[scales.jp]

So much Japanese :D

Thank you so much for all your valuable help! Pogona Club looks like a very small company run by enthusiasts. They don't even have a website, just a blog.

The Power UVB is designed for lizards and turtles, and to be used in conjunction with the Soft UV tube. It also says to run it for only 8 to 10 hours per day. Below are some manufacturer specifications (sorry about the poor image resolution!).

This graph shows no output below 280nm.
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This one is slightly different:
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So both graphs show a peak UVA/UVB output of 100μW/cm2 at around 315nm, which is much higher than was shown on the independently published graph I posted previously (around 45μW/cm2). Colour temperature is rated at 7700K and lifespan is 5000 hours.
37422

The Soft UV tube is listed as UVA 30μW/cm2 and UVB 10μW/cm2. Colour temperature is rated at 6800K and lifespan is 5000 hours.
37419

I can buy ZooMed tubes in Japan, but the only the T5HO fixtures are available and don't look like they would fit inside a vivarium. It might be something to think about for the future.

[scales.jp]

Here's one last graph from the previous independent review showing all the tubes compared together. There's also a breakdown of all the readings on that page in a table below the graphs, in case you're interested (there isn't much Japanese in the tables;)).

各社UVB蛍光灯の測定データ｜結果 Oh! Life｜1.023world (http://www.1023world.net/blog/%E5%90%84%E7%A4%BEuvb%E8%9B%8D%E5%85%89%E7%81%AF%E 3%81%AE%E6%B8%AC%E5%AE%9A%E3%83%87%E3%83%BC%E3%82% BF)

37423

[TRD]

I see, thanks.

Well, from the readings alone the power UVB, assuming that there are no anomalies below 300nm, seems to be ok.

When used in a reflective fixture, make sure it's no closer than 40cm, rather 45cm, above the animal. If no reflector, then 20-25cm (I compared the output of this light against a 6% Arcadia as I don't have UVI graphs on this Pogoma light).

If there's a mesh screen (ie- 3mm or smaller) in front of the lamp, then UVb output is lowered by approx 30%, so that would be 20cm without reflector, or 35 with (yes, that's sometimes almost the same distance because UV fall off is not linear).

Make sure that around 50% of the vivarium receives no UV light, just like temperature, UV also requires a gradient. Provide plenty of hides, also on area's that are exposed to UV.

If these distances are too great, then perhaps look into T8 instead of T5HO.

[scales.jp]

I think I've finally worked out what no pet shop or customer service rep has so far been able to tell me. 580mm is the length of the actual tube, and 596~mm is the length of the tube plus the pins at each end. So all the Japanese tubes should be the same length, in which case I'll get the Herp Craft Level 5.

I'll call them again to make sure!:rolleyes: