Ball python pairing ideas!

[killercandy15]

Hey people fall is starting. Breeding season is nearing. And I just got a bunch of ball pythons. Never bred them before so hoping all goes well. Just looking to see what pairings people think would be cool with what I have.

Males
Superblast
GHI (might be a little small to breed, and haven't tried to find sperm plugs)
Goldblush Mojave
Pastel pied
Pastel clown (also a little small)
Banana (same again he's a bit small so would need to check for plugs)

Females ready to breed in size
Het pied
Het albino
Pastel special
Queenbee
Killerbee
Pied
Butter crystal BEL (on the small side of all in the list)
Cinnamon enchi
Lemonblast
Pastel het TSK axanthic
Black pastel het pied (same size as BEL)

[Aaron_S]

Well what do you think would be cool?

[Albert Clark]

You have quite the collection there but you should breed what you want and desire. That is more important than what other people think. All of them are winners starting with the nice array of pied combos that you have. Good luck.

[Monocled Guy]

GHI x Pied would be cool.

[killercandy15]

You have quite the collection there but you should breed what you want and desire. That is more important than what other people think. All of them are winners starting with the nice array of pied combos that you have. Good luck.

I do get that. And I definitely want to put the pied individuals together and I'm hoping to pick up another pied combo with another gene at the Sacramento reptile show this upcoming weekend. I've just never really dealt with ball pythons before so was hoping input on what people like too.

[Aaron_S]

Hey people fall is starting. Breeding season is nearing. And I just got a bunch of ball pythons. Never bred them before so hoping all goes well. Just looking to see what pairings people think would be cool with what I have.

Males
Superblast
GHI (might be a little small to breed, and haven't tried to find sperm plugs)
Goldblush Mojave
Pastel pied
Pastel clown (also a little small)
Banana (same again he's a bit small so would need to check for plugs)

Females ready to breed in size
Het pied
Het albino
Pastel special
Queenbee
Killerbee
Pied
Butter crystal BEL (on the small side of all in the list)
Cinnamon enchi
Lemonblast
Pastel het TSK axanthic
Black pastel het pied (same size as BEL)

I do get that. And I definitely want to put the pied individuals together and I'm hoping to pick up another pied combo with another gene at the Sacramento reptile show this upcoming weekend. I've just never really dealt with ball pythons before so was hoping input on what people like too.

People like:

Pieds
BEL's
Clowns
GHI
Banana

Nobody cares about:

Pastel
Pinstripe
Super pastel
Axanthic

You are extremely heavy on males

[Scubadiver59]

Are Balls that attractive as a selling item? I have one, and I don't want any more as I'm trying to diversify my species, and it seems to me that the market is really saturated, even with the minority morphs that cost way too much for a snake I look at like a "pet rock" as some are want to call it.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the where one would go with these.

[Krj-2501]

I would say - the following pairing should give some nice babies.

Pastel Pied male - with the het pied/pied females. - for some het pieds/pied babies.

Goldblush Mojave male - with Butter Crystal BEL female. For some possible BEL babies.

Banana male - with Lemonblast Female.

GHI male - with Cinnamon enchi female.

[Aaron_S]

Are Balls that attractive as a selling item? I have one, and I don't want any more as I'm trying to diversify my species, and it seems to me that the market is really saturated, even with the minority morphs that cost way too much for a snake I look at like a "pet rock" as some are want to call it.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the where one would go with these.

I put it this way, if they didn't sell would you still see so many available?

[Scubadiver59]

Just seems like there's a glut in the market, and what I see locally, in Craigslist, with everyone trying to dump theirs, it doesn't seem like there are that many out there wanting to buy them.

I put it this way, if they didn't sell would you still
see so many available?

[killercandy15]

Yeah I got into ball pythons on a whim. I only paid $500 for 3 freedom breeder racks and all the snakes. However locally where I am is pretty rural and expensive to get stuff in. And it's a college town next door. So there's a huge market for morphs of any snakes since they are one of few animals allowed as pets in the dorms. I favor carpet pythons over all else. I love the personality variance but for breeding unfortunately many people struggle with not enjoying them as babies since they are nippy babies.

[Scubadiver59]

I picked up a 6yr old a few months ago and him and I have an understanding--he doesn't bother me w/o food and I respect his privacy. Now, I have a juvenile Zebra JCP and he was fine the first day, and when I put him in a temp tub the other day; but last night, when I moved him into a 20gal temp viv, until I can get him in a 40gal, he looked a little testy. Time will tell with him but I hope he turns out a bit better then his big brother.

Yeah I got into ball pythons on a whim. I only paid $500 for 3 freedom breeder racks and all the snakes. However locally where I am is pretty rural and expensive to get stuff in. And it's a college town next door. So there's a huge market for morphs of any snakes since they are one of few animals allowed as pets in the dorms. I favor carpet pythons over all else. I love the personality variance but for breeding unfortunately many people struggle with not enjoying them as babies since they are nippy babies.

[Aaron_S]

Just seems like there's a glut in the market, and what I see locally, in Craigslist, with everyone trying to dump theirs, it doesn't seem like there are that many out there wanting to buy them.

So I have friends who produce hundreds and into the thousands of ball pythons a year. A lot are shipped off to wholesalers who sell to pet stores because it's a massive demand on the pet level.

A lot are are then shipped overseas, particularly Asia, where the high end stuff is bought up quickly and in large amounts.

So yes, there's still a demand. It might be better to believe there's a "refined" demand because some morphs just aren't popular as they once were and you'd have a hard time selling them...like genetic stripe.

[Scubadiver59]

Sounds just like the puppy mills...no difference...and we all know what we think about those!

I also wonder how many "cute" juvenile wholesale snakes end up back on the market once people see how big they get? Not in length, or "bitey", and nothing like Retics, but just because of the size the buyers weren't expecting since the buyers didn't do their homework. Then there's the food procurement, etc., etc., etc.

And shipped overseas? Snake burgers or kabobs? We know what the Chinese do to dogs...in the thousands!

Meh, just sounding off as I clean my cages today and decided to climb up on the soap box...

So I have friends who produce hundreds and into the thousands of ball pythons a year. A lot are shipped off to wholesalers who sell to pet stores because it's a massive demand on the pet level.

A lot are are then shipped overseas, particularly Asia, where the high end stuff is bought up quickly and in large amounts.

So yes, there's still a demand. It might be better to believe there's a "refined" demand because some morphs just aren't popular as they once were and you'd have a hard time selling them...like genetic stripe.

[Aaron_S]

Sounds just like the puppy mills...no difference...and we all know what we think about those!

I also wonder how many "cute" juvenile wholesale snakes end up back on the market once people see how big they get? Not in length, or "bitey", and nothing like Retics, but just because of the size the buyers weren't expecting since the buyers didn't do their homework. Then there's the food procurement, etc., etc., etc.

And shipped overseas? Snake burgers or kabobs? We know what the Chinese do to dogs...in the thousands!

Meh, just sounding off as I clean my cages today and decided to climb up on the soap box...

If you have so much disdain for the industry why do you keep any animals and so many? Why do you put ANY money into the hobby? Why participate if you hate everything that makes it go round?

[Scubadiver59]

Ah, Aarron...this is a forum, so you'll have various views on things that may be thrown out there for discussion in order to gain understanding as to the why (why collect, breed, etc.), how (husbandry), and so on; so, I threw the comment in from left field (sorry for the baseball analogy for those that don't know baseball) after reading the recent, sudden surge in breeding threads and trying to understand why, especially regarding BPs, you'd want to breed them. Is it financial, just for S&G's, because I can, I want a certain morph that I'm going to strike it rich with its sale?

No disdain. I love all my animals, all 32 of them. I have my 29 snakes, and three dogs, 90% of the snakes second-hand from people that can't or won't take care of them any more, so my interest is definitely there. And I can see breeding unique species, like Hoggs (extinct in the wild), or other threatened species unavailable anywhere else, but the breeding of BPs seems over commercialized.

Unless, unless, you get that one specific morph that sells for $10k. Then I guess it doesn't matter...unless you can't find a buyer, and how many here will pay $10k for a BP? I even have a hard time thinking about shelling out $8k for a Bob Clark Pied Retic, let alone a BP!

Just looking for a discussion to understand the mentality behind the need to breed...



If you have so much disdain for the industry why do you keep any animals and so many? Why do you put ANY money into the hobby? Why participate if you hate everything that makes it go round?

[Aaron_S]

Ah, Aarron...this is a forum, so you'll have various views on things that may be thrown out there for discussion in order to gain understanding as to the why (why collect, breed, etc.), how (husbandry), and so on; so, I threw the comment in from left field (sorry for the baseball analogy for those that don't know baseball) after reading the recent, sudden surge in breeding threads and trying to understand why, especially regarding BPs, you'd want to breed them. Is it financial, just for S&G's, because I can, I want a certain morph that I'm going to strike it rich with its sale?

No disdain. I love all my animals, all 32 of them. I have my 29 snakes, and three dogs, 90% of the snakes second-hand from people that can't or won't take care of them any more, so my interest is definitely there. And I can see breeding unique species, like Hoggs (extinct in the wild), or other threatened species unavailable anywhere else, but the breeding of BPs seems over commercialized.

Unless, unless, you get that one specific morph that sells for $10k. Then I guess it doesn't matter...unless you can't find a buyer, and how many here will pay $10k for a BP? I even have a hard time thinking about shelling out $8k for a Bob Clark Pied Retic, let alone a BP!

Just looking for a discussion to understand the mentality behind the need to breed...


Let me break up your post into chunks so I better understand and so things are more clear.

1. I asked a few questions and didn't really see any answers to them.

2. You say you're looking for discussion to understand things but you make sweeping, even a racist comment, generalized assumptions without knowing anything. If you want discussion then you ask questions. If you want to understand you ask "why" and not put down someone elses passion off the hop and refer to them as a puppy mill. By your own statement that you don't understand why someone does it how can you call them a puppy mill with such assertion? It's ignorant.

3. I have no problem with differing view points but that's why I asked questions so I didn't make any assumptions.

4. Breeders do what they do for all of the reason you suggested. Some do it more for one reason than the other but I don't know them so I can't speak to it.

5. While you call me and my friends and others a puppy mill I clearly have issue with that. Everything I know about puppy mills is that they put the financial gain above the health or well-being of the animals, short term and long term. Many stories I've seen/read have had the animals all needing vet care and lots of it. Disease and emaciation run rampant. In reality, my snakes are fed well, their diet is sourced from a place I've looked into to ensure proper diet is fed to the rodents. I continually check for illness and would treat if something happened. My animals are not bred if they don't look to be of proper size and I know my closest friends do the same.
Further, we all continually learn and educate ourselves on what's new and how can we improve things.

6. Why is ball pythons so "commercialized" because they sell. All the unique stuff everyone wants, time and time again get bred and nobody wants it. We're not talking slightly more unique we're talking really rare, stuff like Jamaican boas. People want to see a zoo they don't want to care for one. Same goes for corns, beardies, leos...etc.

7. I see where your passion lies. You prefer to "help" people out by taking on rescues and giving a good home to animals. I applaud you for those 29 animals/people. Want to know how many people I've helped? Dozens into the hundreds at this point. I have helped spurn passion and keeping in all those individuals. Some personally and I stay in touch with, some not so much. Breeding brings in more hobbiest which in turn gives us more people to enjoy and share the hobby with. In hopes that with more people involved laws change for the betterment of our hobby as it becomes more mainstream.

8. The Asia market is massive and relatively new. People are paying $10,000 for snakes of all species if it commands it. These are sold to pet stores there OR to other customers. I'm assuming for pets and or their own breeding purposes. Not for eating as you rudely suggested.

9. People here can and do purchase expensive snakes. Ball pythons generally are in the $2500 and less range now and most people can come up with that depending on what "level" of the hobby they'd like to be in. That is up to them to decide.

Pet stores aren't the scary thing we think they are. They bring in tons of new customers to the hobby which is important to keep it alive and thriving. As well as helping us garner votes to stave off laws that inhibit our passions. Wholesalers get their animals from breeders like myself and others. They are quality animals so there's no issue with health or parasites or feeding. In turn they sell to pet stores to bring in more and more people. Sure there's a bad store here and there but there's often good ones that go unnoticed. Sure there's bad keepers but the great and good ones outweigh the bad ones. How do I know this? Because tens of thousands of animals are produced and sold annually just through pet stores and you certainly aren't rescuing them all. I've built up a community, hundreds of people got their very first pet snake because of me. My friends have brought in hundreds and thousands too. There's a high demand and I like to think that they can't all be ending up on craigslist.

There's so many pets out there that we don't see online. I know a pet store and have spoken to a few of their customers and they only trust the store and buy their animals from them and product exclusively there.

I think I'm most upset you outright **** on someone elses chosen hobby/passion by making false assumptions and claims.

[Andy_G]

Nothing like dropping a deuce on breeders in general while shooting off racial comments in order to "start a discussion". Yikes. Perhaps let's get this back on track without all of that?