got tagged by Nicon

[akane]

Ok, bad idea. I can't get quality rats consistently so Nicon (6.5' bull) has been wiping out my gerbils quite happily and refused 3 guinea pigs. I fresh killed one basically in front of him after letting it move around some in his enclosure but no go still. I've heard others say they introduce new foods or change the diet by holding out one and then giving the other food item or feeding one and then the other if small. I held the gerbil by the tail on the stone tile hide and basking spot making enticing scrambling noises behind the guinea pig. If I didn't mind it eaten I would have just fed it and then the guinea pig but I haven't decided my new breeding pairs from the 2 weaning bins yet so I was keeping it back with just my hand, you try to hold a running gerbil by the tail with tongs, while trying to offer the guinea pig. Well, Nicon said this is stupid and went for the gerbil getting my arm in his attempt to arc around the guinea pig. Gerbil was returned safely with only some confusion, left the guinea pig in on a maybe I at least triggered enough feeding response, and I can't find the betadine or chlorhexadine scrub so all we have to disinfect is rubbing alcohol apparently.... :rolleyes: I haven't taken aspirin lately so I'm back to clotting fast at least.

Snakes are not dumb enough for that idea. Only humans learning about snakes are. I am debating trying to scent a guinea pig as gerbil instead.

[EL Ziggy]

When you say you can't get quality rats consistently, I presume you don't order your feeders online. Do you have a trusted local supplier or do you raise all your own feeders? The one thing I do like about ordering online is I can usually get exactly what I want in terms of the type and size of feeders that I need. I've never tried the bait and switch technique. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me either :). How many adult gerbils do you have to feed your bull per feeding? Do you plan on keeping your bulls on guinea pigs as the staple of their diet and are they easier to get and less expensive than rats? I might try them as a change of pace for my female bull.

[sattva]

Moe, my JCP is one I have to watch out for when it's feeding time... I can't get the cage open fast enough for him... He bit the screen once; and the last time I feed him, I got the cage opened and he jumped up on the rim of the tank... Now he's in the "S" position, So I am dangling this rat with tongs with my right hand and with my left hand I decide to come around the back of him, pick him up and put him back down in his cage to feed him right... Ya right! ... He spins around to bit me and bites himself pretty hard... These give me a chance to slowly lower him back into his cage... He no sooner hits the floor of his cage and he lets go of himself and I shove the head of the rat in; he clamps down and were good to go... Fun, fun, fun... :yes:

[Andy_G]

Guinea pigs are really fatty and should not be used as a staple...but I guess they're ok as a treat. I can't understand why you would be using a live gerbil for bait and switch...bait n switch is usually done with both prey items being dead. This was a bad idea, especially with you having to use your hand...but you found that out the hard way! You may have better luck with scenting, for sure. Hopefully you'll find a better rodent supplier soon as well because gerbils are such a tiny meal and guineas are not healthy.

[akane]

We actually had such a rodent shortage here a couple months ago stores told us if we find some to call them so they can feed their own snakes they have up for sale. My snakes won't eat the frozen rodents from the chain stores except the desert king snake doesn't care what his prey looks or smells like. He scoops the dead rodent and runs for cover to digest but that is a hopper mouse a week or 2 so doesn't count for much. All told trying to use those the past few months I have thrown out 10 hoppers, 3 mice, 2 medium rats, and 3 small rats that nothing would eat. The rest was filled in with live acquired mice and gerbils since my next biggest snake might have surpassed 3' so a weaned gerbil is a fine size singly and the fuzzies work well for most everything that eats mouse hoppers. The non-chain store is always sold out even if we call earlier in the day, my one private supplier had weird sizes I never knew what I'd get when I asked and she has disappeared (plus I had to euthanize them all myself as she only sold live), the other big supplier I hope to catch eventually so I don't have to ship only comes to town once a week so we haven't lined it up yet (supposed to call saturday for sunday), and all the little individuals I've found are like "oh yes I'll have some soon" and soon isn't really good enough plus then something happens or they never get back to me. I'm hoping to stay in contact with this person with ASF that she just paired up.

Gerbils produce about 5 pups every 30days and can only be bred in pairs so they aren't supposed to be sustaining my snakes but every source of rat/mouse I lose so far except if we get 45mins south of here for a store that raises their own and my snakes were all babies changing sizes and feeding amounts that I didn't ever do a big order online over winter. The python also still only eats live most of the time. Sometimes I can lure him onto a prekill but it still has to start live in my house. Nicon can eat 4 not quite sexually mature filled out adult gerbils easy. I don't grow out extras beyond that because then they need their own cage and with only pair breeding and chewing out of ANY plastic bin (seriously I tried some thick ones with smooth corners) cages are a premium.

Guinea pigs are a ton of meat and very dense. You have to get them very young to equal the weight of a rat instead of just size and if young and especially if imported meat cuy lines from peru they are not that horribly high in fat. I'm told they can be hard to digest if you go by size for more sensitive snakes since they have different fur and are bricks on feet so I weigh them instead but for my hardy garbage disposals they should not pose a problem and others feed them to a variety of snakes. I have imported peru cuy crosses. The purebreds can get 8lbs and mine get about 4-6lbs after 2-4months when the average US bred guinea pig stops at 1-2lbs, rare strains closer to 3lbs, and can take a 8-12months to fully get there. I cull boars pretty much within 24hrs of birth to equal a pup-small rat in weight or by 3 weeks, which is weaning age, for medium-large rat weight. It's hard to find full nutritional details for cuy bred specifically since it's for gutted, hair singed, and they are often fried for human food but rodent pro chart has 51% protein, 46% fat, 6.99 kcal per gram for 10 week olds, adult rat 61% protein, 32% fat, 6.37kcal/g for adult under 50g and of course fat and calories go up with age so they are a bit more fat but that's 10week US bred only. Not mine that are reported to be lower in fat and a good lean, high protein meat to eat as a staple for humans. They still don't produce enough compared to rats for a steady diet either but as a supplement like I planned the gerbils to be enticing treats at times and supplement while I worked on color varieties not found in this state. Offspring are usually 3 every ~70 days but like I said they are ready to feed instantly to within 3 weeks by weight compared to rats for snakes. I was raising them in large numbers for dog food before I got a rodent allergy and they just produce too much pee and kick the pee dust up from the bedding that combines bad for allergies so I culled down to my import project and have a freezer of the US kind as well as the slow but steady production of peru cuy cross.

[Scubadiver59]

I'm sorry, but I had to giggle after reading this....what were you thinking? It sounds almost like a Laurel & Hardy, Three Stooges, or Marx Brothers skit!!

Ok, bad idea. I can't get quality rats consistently so Nicon (6.5' bull) has been wiping out my gerbils quite happily and refused 3 guinea pigs. I fresh killed one basically in front of him after letting it move around some in his enclosure but no go still. I've heard others say they introduce new foods or change the diet by holding out one and then giving the other food item or feeding one and then the other if small. I held the gerbil by the tail on the stone tile hide and basking spot making enticing scrambling noises behind the guinea pig. If I didn't mind it eaten I would have just fed it and then the guinea pig but I haven't decided my new breeding pairs from the 2 weaning bins yet so I was keeping it back with just my hand, you try to hold a running gerbil by the tail with tongs, while trying to offer the guinea pig. Well, Nicon said this is stupid and went for the gerbil getting my arm in his attempt to arc around the guinea pig. Gerbil was returned safely with only some confusion, left the guinea pig in on a maybe I at least triggered enough feeding response, and I can't find the betadine or chlorhexadine scrub so all we have to disinfect is rubbing alcohol apparently.... :rolleyes: I haven't taken aspirin lately so I'm back to clotting fast at least.

Snakes are not dumb enough for that idea. Only humans learning about snakes are. I am debating trying to scent a guinea pig as gerbil instead.

[akane]

Nicon is a softy all bluff or I wouldn't have but he insisted he could get that gerbil. He didn't fully sink in when he got my arm. I only have some top teeth punctures above the wrist bone and he let go because his goal was the gerbil. I'm trying someone's idea of thawing the smallest frozen guinea pig I could find in the same bag as gerbils.

[Scubadiver59]

I came in late this evening and looked in on my CP...he greeted my by striking the plexiglas window of his viv. I think he was pissed cuz I forgot to turn on his light this morning and he was in dim light all day long; either that or he's hungry again.

So, I opened up the door and had to back him off with a few strokes from the hook, and reached in like I wanted to check his water to test his resolve...he was a good boy and stayed put. Oh, having him is going to be fun... :rolleyes:

Nicon is a softy all bluff or I wouldn't have but he insisted he could get that gerbil. He didn't fully sink in when he got my arm. I only have some top teeth punctures above the wrist bone and he let go because his goal was the gerbil. I'm trying someone's idea of thawing the smallest frozen guinea pig I could find in the same bag as gerbils.

[akane]

It's that sumatran python who worries me. Nicon's size worried me at first but he's quite careful now that he knows me and is not usually feeling any real threat from anything. Sure, odd things happen and Nicon could have been too intent on the gerbil and there are some major blood vessels in the wrist. Just plain don't experiment with the python even with the ER about 5 blocks away. Odds are too high you'll be there. Even at his couple feet he hits all out with no warning to the point I worry he injured himself slamming things next to me. I've heard blood pythons with a strong response will crush bones in prey as they hit.

The bulls are actually pretty gentle for all their noise. They'll never be something you can always count on just sticking your hand in there without checking their mood but if you haven't got a nervous disposition and a little creativity or tools when you don't have time to play "I am a rattlesnake and have decided to defend this spot" in order to get them moved they aren't too bad of early on snakes to keep. If it's a good cb that has been handled. I've had to move a lot of wild ones and they are a different animal when they don't care to pull their punches. They had me nervous to get bit by anything until I saw the anatomy details and logistics of things like the rosy boas and corn snakes.

[akane]

I think it worked. I heated up 2 frozen gerbils and a small guinea pig under a larger heat lamp dome wrapped up together for hours while the guinea pig in the center thawed. Then I made sure the gerbils toward the light was a good temp for being that close to a 75w heat bulb and dumped all 3 in a pile. Everything is gone this morning. That doesn't mean he didn't drag the guinea pig under his 2x2' slate slab but I'm gonna hope no cause it's a pain to check without disturbing a snake possibly digesting a large meal.

[EL Ziggy]

If it's not where you left it chances are it's eaten. My female bull never refuses a meal. My male will kinda take a few weeks off during breeding season. He'll eat chicks but won't touch a rat. And when he refuses food it's always right where I left it. If he's quietly tucked away in his warm hide he's probably in a little food coma. :)

[Andy_G]

Yeah...it won't have dragged it in there for a snuggle. :D

[akane]

Oh, he's dragged and moved things around before so I had to go find it when it smelled. I quit offering any food for awhile despite him being hungry after retrieving several gerbils from under rocks and such when he wasn't eating while wanting to breed after brumation and then shedding. I'm not sure if he dragged or shoved the guinea pig he didn't eat the day before from the center of the tile off the edge so it fell between the stones holding up the slate.