Is this normal behavior?

[Tiny Boidae]

I'd just like to get the opinions of other keepers on here. I'm not highly concerned with this behavior, as I monitor him regularly and I don't see any sign of potential scale rot, but my Baird's Rat Snake seems to spend an unnatural amount of time in his water dish.

From what I've read about their natural history, they seem to naturally occur around bodies of water so this is apparently at least expected behavior. I'd think. His temperatures 90* under his ceramic heater, 80* on the opposite side of the enclosure with a small dip at night. I've found no mites on him or in the water dish either.

This doesn't seem to be linked to his bowel movements as I rarely find feces in the bowl, but usually in the rest of the enclosure. I won't say he spends all day in his water bowl, as I do see him elsewhere sometimes, but he does seem to use it more than his two actual hides. He'll spend a few days like this, only occasionally leaving the water dish. If I take him out, he typically goes directly back to the bowl. Then he'll spend about a week or so elsewhere before returning to the bowl again. I'm mildly concerned about scale rot, but since he's free to dry off whenever he wants I don't see this being an issue. I just want some insight. Particularly because I plan on building a more naturalistic enclosure for him very soon, and I was considering building a little pond for him despite being an arid species.

[regi375]

A potential issue he might have is mites. Look for tiny black dots in the water bowl. If it's not that, then I'm stumped. Hopefully others will offer more insight than I.

[jjhill001]

You're snake is too hot. Try lowering the temps about 5-6 degrees. High temps seem to cause shedding issues. Your temps are more in line with the recommended ball python temps (which I think are too hot too but I'm not arguing with that community again).

This species seems to have issues with tail tips shedding and I've found that lowering the temps helps remedy this issue. I'd say just from doing my own research on this species that every care sheet out there for them is basically a copy pasted Texas Rat Snake sheet (they share a portion of the same range). And the ones that aren't are flat out old as heck. In the wild during the spring and fall months this snake is active during the day, in the summer they hide from the heat and only come out in the early morning or late evening.

Your statement about them being found near water is true. One of their favorite habitats in the wild are rock formations known as karst which are basically limestone that has had water seep through it over time. I've never personally been there but I would say that the humidity in there is vastly higher than outside. This is why I have a humid hide for my bairds. That I don't have to mist too often (usually a light misting of the moss in there when they are in shed).

[Scubadiver59]

I agree... 85F hot side, 75 cool side. And like most Colubrids it shouldn't require that much humidity until in shed, then up it to >60%...so far that's worked for my Corn and two Kings.

You're snake is too hot. Try lowering the temps about 5-6 degrees. High temps seem to cause shedding issues. Your temps are more in line with the recommended ball python temps (which I think are too hot too but I'm not arguing with that community again).

This species seems to have issues with tail tips shedding and I've found that lowering the temps helps remedy this issue. I'd say just from doing my own research on this species that every care sheet out there for them is basically a copy pasted Texas Rat Snake sheet (they share a portion of the same range). And the ones that aren't are flat out old as heck. In the wild during the spring and fall months this snake is active during the day, in the summer they hide from the heat and only come out in the early morning or late evening.

Your statement about them being found near water is true. One of their favorite habitats in the wild are rock formations known as karst which are basically limestone that has had water seep through it over time. I've never personally been there but I would say that the humidity in there is vastly higher than outside. This is why I have a humid hide for my bairds. That I don't have to mist too often (usually a light misting of the moss in there when they are in shed).

[dannybgoode]

You're snake is too hot. Try lowering the temps about 5-6 degrees. High temps seem to cause shedding issues. Your temps are more in line with the recommended ball python temps (which I think are too hot too but I'm not arguing with that community again).

This species seems to have issues with tail tips shedding and I've found that lowering the temps helps remedy this issue. I'd say just from doing my own research on this species that every care sheet out there for them is basically a copy pasted Texas Rat Snake sheet (they share a portion of the same range). And the ones that aren't are flat out old as heck. In the wild during the spring and fall months this snake is active during the day, in the summer they hide from the heat and only come out in the early morning or late evening.

Your statement about them being found near water is true. One of their favorite habitats in the wild are rock formations known as karst which are basically limestone that has had water seep through it over time. I've never personally been there but I would say that the humidity in there is vastly higher than outside. This is why I have a humid hide for my bairds. That I don't have to mist too often (usually a light misting of the moss in there when they are in shed).

Be careful about recommending low temperatures. Snakes need a good hot spot for digestion and it can lead to issues of the temperature is too low.

I agree the cool side seems a touch warm but the hot side does not.

I've never had anything but a perfect shed from any of my snakes-ever and many of mine are kept at warmer temperatures than this. Hydration and humidity issues are what cause bad sheds, not temperatures.

Now, in certain set ups higher temperatures will impact hydration and humidity but there are ways to correct that without lowering the temperature.

[Doug 351]

I don't even bother with humidity and many years never had heat for my snake.

She's a Texas ratsnake and she occasionally sleeps in her water bowl. Sounds like your Bairds is spending a lot of time in there though.

I think it may be the temperature. They can get by on much less. I have a heat rock ( yeah, don't even start with the you're gonna fry your snake) it's got a thermostat and has proven reliable for years.

Now here's the point I'm getting to: She has only gotten on that thing a few hours in many years. She basically lives in the same temperature I do.

She's made it 15years without too much fuss.

BTW: She's never had anything but perfect sheds her whole life, doesn't have any problem digesting her food and has shown a pretty good growth rate over the years.

[Tiny Boidae]

Thanks for the input. I'll agree that the temps are probably a little too hot, but I've fiddled around with them before and even when his hot spot was at 85* and his cool side was around 77-78* (with a small night time drop), this behavior never changed. He's also never had any shedding problems. Not since I've gotten him. The tail tip has never even gotten stuck (which isn't surprising considering how much time he spends in his water dish). I will lower the temperatures back down at your recommendation. At least the cool side. Maybe touch the hot side down to about 88* and see how he manages it.

[jjhill001]

Be careful about recommending low temperatures. Snakes need a good hot spot for digestion and it can lead to issues of the temperature is too low.

I agree the cool side seems a touch warm but the hot side does not.

I've never had anything but a perfect shed from any of my snakes-ever and many of mine are kept at warmer temperatures than this. Hydration and humidity issues are what cause bad sheds, not temperatures.

Now, in certain set ups higher temperatures will impact hydration and humidity but there are ways to correct that without lowering the temperature.

There are tons of people who keep their snakes without a hot spot and never have any problem with digestion as long as the snake is kept within a correct temperature range.

The most common heating method is heatpads and we all know that reptiles don't detect heat from their bellies that well so using that as a hotspot has never made sense to me.

[Tiny Boidae]

I touched the warm side down a bit to ~86-87* and the cool side is currently at 77*, and drops down some at night to about 74-75*. I keep a ceramic heater on at all times, which is hooked up to a thermostat. I also have a very, very low wattage daylight bulb that isn't hooked up to a thermostat, but is to a timer. Thus he gets a small drop at night and a pinch warmer during the day. I don't use heating pads for any of my animals anymore.

I've been monitoring his activity, and he's been in and out of the water bowl for several hours at a time. This doesn't mean much to me right now though, since he's about to go into blue right now. I'll keep an eye on him for a while and see if his behavior is corrected or if it persists, and let you guys know.

[dannybgoode]

There are tons of people who keep their snakes without a hot spot and never have any problem with digestion as long as the snake is kept within a correct temperature range.

The most common heating method is heatpads and we all know that reptiles don't detect heat from their bellies that well so using that as a hotspot has never made sense to me.


The key here as you have stated is 'correct temperature range' and this generally includes one area that is warmer than the rest. I alsokeep forgetting too that in the US uth's are more prevalent than in the uk - I don't care for them for a number of reasons.

I am also a big advocate of night time temperature drops also as this more closely mimics the day/night temperature cycle of nature and allows for basking spot in the day and cooler temps at night.

The drop depends on the species-a tropical snake may only experience a couple of degrees drop, a northern us or European snake or indeed some desert species may not get heating at all at night.

[jjhill001]

The key here as you have stated is 'correct temperature range' and this generally includes one area that is warmer than the rest. I alsokeep forgetting too that in the US uth's are more prevalent than in the uk - I don't care for them for a number of reasons.

I am also a big advocate of night time temperature drops also as this more closely mimics the day/night temperature cycle of nature and allows for basking spot in the day and cooler temps at night.

The drop depends on the species-a tropical snake may only experience a couple of degrees drop, a northern us or European snake or indeed some desert species may not get heating at all at night.

I'm always interested in hearing others' care strategies, particularly from across the pond where *GASP* substrates other than paper and *GASP* not using tubs is common practice.

My mindset in regards to temperature are a bit more off the wall than some, I keep my snakes within a tighter temperature range than a lot of people do but I really shy away from anything over 85 F/ 29.5 C. There is a gradient simply based on where the heating element is placed but other than that as long as the temp stays lower than that and over 75 F/25 C during the day I've found great success.

I combine this with longer periods between feedings because as we know with lower temps the snake will metabolize food and water more slowly. Using these strategies I've been able to all but eliminate my need to mist my snakes ever.

I keep colubrids so usually humidity isn't really that big of a deal to most keepers but the breeder I've based these care methods on specialized in morelia and was keeping balls, diamonds, carpets and green tree pythons at a flat 80-82 degrees but kept every snake that he owned at the same temperature and didn't even care about humidity levels other than what was produced by the waterbowls in his tubs.

I don't go that hardcore with it simply because I prefer larger naturally decorated setups and those are gonna be more difficult to manage in regards to standard temps without having a dedicated snake room but since adopting some of the theories several years ago I've eliminated all of the problems (not like they were that common anyways but still) such as stuck sheds and the like that I used to have. My snakes are slender and strong and not overfed and look like they are supposed to look.

I usually don't talk about my methods that much because they are different than the norm and we live in an every caresheet says kind of culture in the snake community when in reality half of the caresheets are reworded copy pasted versions of each other and it often causes people to get really aggressive for some reason.

[dannybgoode]

And its always good to hear other keeping methods and I agree with a good amount of what you say. I don't worry about humidity as much as some for most snakes and too high a humidity is often more damaging to health long term than a touch too low.

There are exceptions (I'll be quite fussy about my scrub's humidity as they are a little fussy) and within a broad range I keep some higher than others (my boa has a higher humidity than my olives for example and my ATB will be kept highish also ).

Plants help in keeping humidity up in any event and most of my vivs are planted.

Actual Lol at your comment re: substrates :D

[Tiny Boidae]

The insight is very helpful. I might try your method with him and see how he responds to it, but not until he's finished shedding. I don't like causing any more stress than necessary, especially during a shed.

He's still hanging out in his water bowl some, but I found him in his warm hide just now which he usually doesn't do much of unless he eats something, and then he'll spend a day or two in it. I've read a lot on this site in particular that this was seemingly normal behavior in regards to the hot side so I never really thought much of it until it was brought up. I did consider it being too hot when I noticed he was spending a lot of time in his water dish, but something led me to believe it wasn't (can't remember much aside from that I had a specific reason). I'm still pretty new at this I guess, so I'll continue to see what he does. Especially​ after he sheds.