Diving in Headfirst...in a shallow pool

[Scubadiver59]

Okay, I'm going to come into ownership, or should I say partnership, with a JCP next week and I have a few questions. It's, supposedly it's a he, 6yrs old and 9ft in length, and supposedly rather docile.

I've never had a snake over 5ft, and never a python. I'm not afraid to handle it, but until it gets used to my activities, cleaning regimen, feeding schedule, I need a little more info...

1. Until I get a proper enclosure, PVC or otherwise, is it okay to keep it in a 55gal aquarium? Clamps will be used on the cover, UTH, etc.
2. Avoiding bites...should I use hooks until the snake is settled in, used to feeding, etc., or should I just proceed as I have been with my other Colubrids...minor, careful, handling? My BP doesn't count.
3. Should I keep a spray bottle of vodka close by if bitten? or some cotton swabs and dab vodka on the lips if bitten? Not that I want this to happen, but it might until it gets settled in.

I know I should just feed, spot clean, etc. for the first few weeks, and the hooks are probably a good idea until those weeks pass by, but I thought I'd ask here anyway.

And yes, I know I have some more reading to do, videos to watch, etc. but there's always a starting point for everyone. I'm just starting with a mature snake that I hope is somewhat composed...whatever that means!

[EL Ziggy]

Congrats on the new carpet. They're really fun snakes to keep. A 9ft jungle would be a monster. They average about 5-7 ft. Coastals and Bredli are the larger Morelia ssp. If the snake is 9ft a 55 gallon tank will be pretty tight but you may be able to get away with it for a little while. A 6x2 would be a better option when you upgrade. I don't really trust those tank clamps either but I guess they work for others. I had a BP escape when I used them years ago. A snake hook is a pretty good idea especially when dealing with new snakes. I use one with all of my snakes. I doubt you'll need the spray bottle. It sounds like you've got a good plan for letting him settle in. Get your temps and humidity dialed in before he arrives, get a few meals in him, and after that it should be smooth sailing. Share pics when you can please. ;)

[MDT]

At 9 feet, you'd better get some pretty stout clamps. And reinforce with a few cinder blocks. As Zig says, while you are waiting for your larger upgrade enclosure (and waiting for your new snake), get your settings dialed in so you are ready to receive your new snake without any hiccups.

As for a hook, I ALWAYS use a hook anytime I need to go in the enclosure, regardless of the reason. If you put your 98 degree hand in there and startle your 9 ft python, and it reacts for the wrong reason (feeding time?), you will wish you had used a hook. Hook training will "notify" the snake that nothing warm or tasty is coming its way.

*If* you get bitten, usually it will be a bite/release action. Sometimes, it will be a bite/constrict deal. I know some will advocate for alcohol or other volatile. Not a great idea, this can be harmful to the snake. Cool, running water usually works, or just rest your hand on the table and let it release (easier said than done, but definitely doable).

Best of luck, and yes, please do post up pics when you can!

[trailblazer295]

I agree with the above. A 9ft jungle and a male no less. Would be very very big. My suspicion is they are being very generous with their estimations. Even small snakes are very difficult to get an accurate length on much less bigger ones unless you have lots of help. I highly doubt he is a big as claimed. Good luck and post pics.

[dave himself]

As said above tap training with a hook, is definitely a good idea with a 9ft python and get the pics up asap please :)

[Scubadiver59]

Well, I haven't had the need for hooks yet, so I need to source some rather quickly.

I'm looking at the BoaMaster 8' melamine cage for a permanent home...it looks nice, has more than enough room, and he's just down the road from me in Virginia so I'll save on shipping. I've seen the video reviews of his cages...most are satisfied, especially for the price, but this cage is a bit larger, and melamine, not the PVC laminated foam most seem to buy at the sub $250 range; so, unless I locate some bad reviews, I'll probably start with that cage for my large snakes (I want a Boa and D'Alberts Python).

In the meantime, it will be a 55gal, unless I find something larger for a decent price, and some, uh, cinder blocks to hold him in.

As for the alcohol treatment for a bite...I've also heard of results with lemon juice, or just pouring water (cold?) over the nose. Maybe I'll just wear a sweatshirt for the first few times so it won't be too traumatic if I do get "nipped".

Thanks for all the encouragement, and I'm looking forward to this experience. :)

[MDT]

Scuba, even if you don't have a hook, you can use a paper towel roll, dowel rod. Really anything that can simply "tap" the snake with upon opening the enclosure just to signal the snake, meaning "hey, this tap means it's not dinner time". You'd be surprised how quickly the behavior is learned. Or, use a paper plate as a barrier between you and the snake to "block" your heat signal and create a neutral visual signal.

I'm anxious to see pics once you get it!

[ubermenchwhite]

The best way to make sure you don't get locked up by a carpet is don't stick your hand in their cage. I don't believe in reaching in any snakes cage without a hook. Most pythons are creatures of habit develope good habits with your animal and you won't have any problems.

[Scubadiver59]

Well, I do know not to grab for the head, or anywhere near it, but I do plan on using a hook to get the first grip, the closest grip nearest to the head, yet back from the head, and then use my other hand to grab the snake's body further back.

Pick up the case tomorrow, the RHP and Herpstat arrive Monday, so I probably won't get the snake until Tuesday or later.

The best way to make sure you don't get locked up by a carpet is don't stick your hand in their cage. I don't believe in reaching in any snakes cage without a hook. Most pythons are creatures of habit develope good habits with your animal and you won't have any problems.

[Scubadiver59]

Here's the JCP pic the seller provided...
http://i.imgur.com/INCrmig.jpg

Here are some shots from the viv before completion and after completion...

http://i.imgur.com/PUYHtmY.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/al2cHTm.jpg?1


http://i.imgur.com/gxR19Le.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/R9MkgAD.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/BtkFwF8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g3kBKrG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JA22qhO.jpg

[Scubadiver59]

The finished viv w/heater running...it was too early for the lights to come on, but they came on at 8am as programmed.

http://i.imgur.com/mrHQPIQ.jpg

Now I have to find a place in this room to start stacking vivs and start transferring snakes out of the terrariums as they grow up...

http://i.imgur.com/5fEYJ4i.jpg

[Aaron_S]

Enclosure looks good!

Snake isn't 9 feet. Not your fault though you just went with what they said.

Also, the alcohol thing is only if the snake latches on. Most of the time snakes bite and let go, especially larger snakes. They bite for feeding or defense. Defensive bites are quick strikes. I don't think you need it.

[EL Ziggy]

Nice looking critter and enclosure Scuba. The reptile room looks great too. :)

[dannybgoode]

That does not look particularly like a jcp. Do you have some close ups of the head - top and side?

The reason i ask is it doesn't look dissimilar to an Australian scrub python - Morelia kinghornii. Google some pictures of both and see what you think. A close up of the head would settle it as they have very distinct head scales.

Warning. If it's a kinghornii it may get very very big and very aggressive.

I could very well be wrong because it's not a great photo but the markings just don't look Morelia spilota sp. to me and there appear to be side pits on the mouth. That said Morelia spilota sp. come in such a wide variety of markings it may be.

If it is a carpet it looks more like a mcdowelli (coastal carpet).

I'd certainly want to double check and more than happy to be corrected by anyone who thinks differently.

[Aaron_S]

That does not look particularly like a jcp. Do you have some close ups of the head - top and side?

The reason i ask is it doesn't look dissimilar to an Australian scrub python - Morelia kinghornii. Google some pictures of both and see what you think. A close up of the head would settle it as they have very distinct head scales.

Warning. If it's a kinghornii it may get very very big and very aggressive.

I could very well be wrong because it's not a great photo but the markings just don't look Morelia spilota sp. to me and there appear to be side pits on the mouth. That said Morelia spilota sp. come in such a wide variety of markings it may be.

If it is a carpet it looks more like a mcdowelli (coastal carpet).

I'd certainly want to double check and more than happy to be corrected by anyone who thinks differently.

The colouration and side/belly pattern seen in the pic are definitely carpet python and not scrub.

I would agree that the colour is a little more towards a Coastal but it's probably a mix with like mostly Jungle and some coastal. Either way it looks healthy.

[dannybgoode]

The colouration and side/belly pattern seen in the pic are definitely carpet python and not scrub.

I would agree that the colour is a little more towards a Coastal but it's probably a mix with like mostly Jungle and some coastal. Either way it looks healthy.

Thanks Aaron - my first thought when i saw it was scrub is all. But yes you're right - a cross of spilota sp makes sense.

Sort of thing that crossed my mind

http://www.dannybower.co.uk/photos/Kingh.jpg

[ubermenchwhite]

Most definitely not a scrub, especially not an Australian Scrub; they are illegal even in Australia (there are a few illegal rumored in Europe but I've heard of none in the US) I also agree it looks very similar to a coastal (they grow larger than JCP) but giving the seller some credibility I also agree that carpet localities can get a bit muddy because they are crossed so often (jungle carpet python gets used loosely). Either way looks great and to honest Coastal's are my favorite carpets.

[dannybgoode]

Most definitely not a scrub, especially not an Australian Scrub; they are illegal even in Australia (there are a few illegal rumored in Europe but I've heard of none in the US) I also agree it looks very similar to a coastal (they grow larger than JCP) but giving the seller some credibility I also agree that carpet localities can get a bit muddy because they are crossed so often (jungle carpet python gets used loosely). Either way looks great and to honest Coastal's are my favorite carpets.

Kinghornii aren't illegal in Europe as far as I know so long as they're CB. they're certainly not illegal in the UK just very few people work with them. They job longer be exported from Australia and I don't think you can take them from the wild if you live there but you can still own CB ones to the best of my knowledge.

[dave himself]

Nice viv Scuba and beautiful looking snake ;)

[Scubadiver59]

I successfully transported my new charge home last night, but it was a bumpy ride back; and when I opened the box the seller gave me to to transport it in, it was a little too eager to get close and personal and take off for parts unknown.

So, with a few taps to the head, a mad dash for freedom, and a short wrestling match with me, which I won, it has been temporarily settled into a 110L Sterilite tub and is sitting on the top of the viv, where it's a toasty 78F at night and 86F by day, until I can finish caulking the inside of the viv I just put together (after a 24hr curing period...of course). One thing I have to say, in all honesty, is that this snake is a strong little bugger! There's no comparison whatsoever to my colubrids, which are the only snakes I've really come in contact with. But this morning, when I put in a small water dish, it was very calm and came close to the water dish, and my hand, with no hint of aggression...a good sign.

Another thing I definitely have to do is to weigh the CP so I can ask if the weight is normal: it seems a bit thin, though it is about 1.5x-2x thicker than my 7yr old Albino King, but I expected it to be heavier than it looks and feels...the seller's pics don't depict the true size. The seller was feeding it small rats bi-weekly, and her sister was only feeding it monthly, which sounds like she was starving it, but I could be wrong. Once I get your feedback, I'll adjust accordingly.

[EL Ziggy]

A small rat every 2-4 weeks for an adult JCP of that size doesn't seem like enough food to me. Obviously the animal can survive but is it thriving at or near it's full potential? I probably feed my snakes a bit more liberally than some but my carpets are usually eating small rats every 7 days at 6 months old or roughly 350g.

[ubermenchwhite]

Kinghornii aren't illegal in Europe as far as I know so long as they're CB. they're certainly not illegal in the UK just very few people work with them. They job longer be exported from Australia and I don't think you can take them from the wild if you live there but you can still own CB ones to the best of my knowledge.

I was referring to them being imported and taken from the wild. I actually had no idea anyone was working with CB ones!!! (The only ones I have ever heard of in a private collection were of an illegally imported pair kicking around in France) Any idea of anyone working with them? I'd pay a kings ransom for a pair hahah.

[dannybgoode]

I was referring to them being imported and taken from the wild. I actually had no idea anyone was working with CB ones!!! (The only ones I have ever heard of in a private collection were of an illegally imported pair kicking around in France) Any idea of anyone working with them? I'd pay a kings ransom for a pair hahah.

I've asked a scrub breeder I know if he knows of anyone working with them currently. Does it have to be kinghorni or are there other sub sp. you'd be interested in.

[dave himself]

Check out this guy on YouTube, he seems to have a good collection of different scrubs

https://youtu.be/bl1Bxn9-I6c

[ubermenchwhite]

I've asked a scrub breeder I know if he knows of anyone working with them currently. Does it have to be kinghorni or are there other sub sp. you'd be interested in.



I used to have a few Barnecks years ago and loved them. I've been looking at maybe getting some highlands but I've been really focused on retics the past few years. If I could get a hold of kinghorni pair I'd def bring scrubs back into my collection!! And thank you for the YouTube link. I know DM exotics works with a lot of imported scrubs but they seem to be only southerns, barnecks, highlands and tanimbars. Scrubs are fading out which is a shame I haven't even seen a mollucan in years.....they are truly amazing animals.

[dave himself]

I used to have a few Barnecks years ago and loved them. I've been looking at maybe getting some highlands but I've been really focused on retics the past few years. If I could get a hold of kinghorni pair I'd def bring scrubs back into my collection!! And thank you for the YouTube link. I know DM exotics works with a lot of imported scrubs but they seem to be only southerns, barnecks, highlands and tanimbars. Scrubs are fading out which is a shame I haven't even seen a mollucan in years.....they are truly amazing animals.

There's a Facebook page for scrubs, I've definitely seen a few owners with Mollucan,s on there. Scrubs are one of the snakes that I had a chance to get and deeply regret not doing so

[ubermenchwhite]

There's a Facebook page for scrubs, I've definitely seen a few owners with Mollucan,s on there. Scrubs are one of the snakes that I had a chance to get and deeply regret not doing so

Like I said earlier I am more of a retic guy, but I wasn't always haha. Scrubs were my main focus for years and they truely are incredible. They aren't the biggest python but my god they are the most impressive. They are gorgeous and seeing them navigate effortlessly and with grace and power is breathtaking. If you get the opertunity to find a young one for sure pick it up!!

[Scubadiver59]

Here are a few first pics in the new viv...

http://i.imgur.com/XoIoyeP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xJbAcgl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8gFiJeU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OhGEt9Q.jpg

I was wondering about the concave areas between the spine and the sides...is that evidence of malnutrition or just my imagination? Again, mostly experience with Colubrids and a single BP, but the BP doesn't exhibit the same "hollow" look I see with this CP.

[EL Ziggy]

Your carpet doesn't look emaciated to me Scuba. Carpets are somewhat slender snakes. I do think a small rat is too small of a meal for your guy based on his age and size. My carpets are eating medium or large rats at age 2. If you think he's a little too thin you can increase his prey size and feeding frequency until he fills out a bit more. Try feeding him every 7-10 days instead of every 2-4 weeks. I usually feed my carpets every 10-14 days once they turn 2.

[Andy_G]

My opinion:

- That looks like a jungle x coastal cross.

-Snake is in great condition, but I would be feeding medium or large rats every 10 days

Congrats on the new addition!

[dannybgoode]

Much better pictures and my apologies for any confusion.

Very nice looking snake.

[Scubadiver59]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

All I have right now is small rats, so I might double up or feed a small every 7-10 days until I get some medium rats and and then switch to a 10-14 day schedule with the mediums.

Had to give the snake a few taps when transferring from the 110L Sterilite box to the viv, it was hissing at me a little too much for comfort. Then I used the hook to start lifting the pointy end and reached down/in to get a hold to start lifting; needless to say, that didn't last long as the snake started becoming animated, and I was able to drop the hook and use both hands to transfer it to its new digs. Once there, it started looking around, took a drink from the water dish I put in, and then it went exploring again.

I really need to get something for it to climb on, something to keep it busy, but it's raining so wood is out of the question, so I might consider some kind of PVC tubing set up in the meantime.

[dave himself]

He's a beauty mate

[dannybgoode]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

All I have right now is small rats, so I might double up or feed a small every 7-10 days until I get some medium rats and and then switch to a 10-14 day schedule with the mediums.

Had to give the snake a few taps when transferring from the 110L Sterilite box to the viv, it was hissing at me a little too much for comfort. Then I used the hook to start lifting the pointy end and reached down/in to get a hold to start lifting; needless to say, that didn't last long as the snake started becoming animated, and I was able to drop the hook and use both hands to transfer it to its new digs. Once there, it started looking around, took a drink from the water dish I put in, and then it went exploring again.

I really need to get something for it to climb on, something to keep it busy, but it's raining so wood is out of the question, so I might consider some kind of PVC tubing set up in the meantime.

Possible daft question but why does rain mean you can't collect a bit of wood?

[Scubadiver59]

Shhhh....don't tell anyone! :)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aopdD9Cu-So

Possible daft question but why does rain mean you can't collect a bit of wood?