So it seems I'm now taking care of a snake

[Kortanul]

A roommate moved out and the snake's still here. In the living room. Past couple of months I've been putting a rat in there every few weeks, and I pour water into the tub (not cold or hot, about 78 degrees, distilled, same as I do for aquarium top-offs), and she seems happy with that--though she does not like me opening the tank.

Seems defensive which is understandable. I'd be pretty freaked out if I heard loud noises and my roof slid open. I can't say I really know much about snakes, though I know it's a boa and I know I don't wanna piss it off.

So I'll be here now, I suppose, to figure out how to work with this thing. It's kinda cool anyway.

So hello there, expect me to lurk some and other times ask dumb questions.

[Scubadiver59]

Welcome to sSNAKESs!! :)

Hope your snake inheretance goes well...but what snake did you end up with?

[jay's reptiles]

what are you using to heat the cage? Is it shedding alright? have you tried cleaning the enclosure? does it look really skinny? How long is It? does it have some hides? What kind of bedding are you using? Do you know the species of boa?

Btw, welcome to sSNAKESs!

[Andy_G]

Use spring water instead as distillee is missing some minerals that can be beneficial for the snake. Ask away!

[GyGbeetle]

Use spring water instead as distillee is missing some minerals that can be beneficial for the snake. Ask away!

I concur.

You also need to clean their water dish out every so often to remove any grime and slime from it.

[trailblazer295]

Welcome to snakes

Can you take a picture of the cage and snake?

[Kortanul]

I'll try and get a picture tonight.
Kinda fat, seems about normal for a boa, 6' long, I don't remember the exact type of boa so a picture would probably help you guys tell me what...

Definitely shedding regularly, with the shed skins strewn about the tank (I need a do a full tank cleanout but she and I are not friendly so I only grab what I can while she's on the other end)

I clean out the water dish/tub/thing (the bottom half of a litter box) about once every 2-3 weeks--when it's not full of water and she's not next to/in it. Use spring water instead? Good to know. Hate to do her harm by depriving her of some of the benefit of the water.

For heat, she's got a 200W ceramic heat lamp over her box--I move it to the end of the tank the day before, when I want her behind the box so I can get the water dish out. Spends about half her time perched on the box under the lamp, the rest either in the water or behind the box where it's not so warm.

There's also a heating pad--such as for indoor gardening stuff--under the tank to keep the bottom warm rather than just room temp. She avoided the bottom more before that was added. Tank temp is 78 on the cool end, slightly above room temp (which she goes to of her own accord, mostly see her there when I get up in the morning), 80-82 on the warmer end. I don't know the temp under the lamp but it's only 3" above her when she's on the box.

[Kortanul]

Oh, and she's got a coco fiber substrate, though what's in there is due for replacement.

[GyGbeetle]

You can handle her. What gives you the impression she's not friendly? Does she hiss? Is she lunging or anything? Or does she just seem squimish when you put your hand in there?

[jay's reptiles]

honestly if you're to scared to handle her, than you should just sell or give the snake to a person who can provide for her.

[RAD House]

honestly if you're to scared to handle her, than you should just sell or give the snake to a person who can provide for her.
Why? The snake doesn't need to be handled and probably would prefer not to be. It seems the op is doing pretty well providing for the animal and is here to fill in the gaps. There is no problem with this animal being a display animal if that is what the op wants.

[jay's reptiles]

Why? The snake doesn't need to be handled and probably would prefer not to be. It seems the op is doing pretty well providing for the animal and is here to fill in the gaps. There is no problem with this animal being a display animal if that is what the op wants.

Not what i ment^^^

But, she needs to able to take it out and clean the enclousre completely, she need to pick it up and take it to the vet if the snake becomes sick, she need to treat the snake if it gets mites, and if the snake gets out, she need to not be scared to grab it and put it back in! Im alright with displaying snakes. But when some problems show up, she will need to learn to handle them!

[Andy_G]

Why? The snake doesn't need to be handled and probably would prefer not to be. It seems the op is doing pretty well providing for the animal and is here to fill in the gaps. There is no problem with this animal being a display animal if that is what the op wants.

If it's to the point of being afraid to touch it at all I completely disagree with you here, Anthony. It would need to be removed perodically for general maintenance and if any health issue were to arise, and if an owner is not able to do that the snake will suffer.

Keep asking questions, Kortanul. We aren't here to judge but here to guide you and help out however we can. :)

[jay's reptiles]

If it's to the point of being afraid to touch it at all I completely disagree with you here, Anthony. It would need to be removed perodically for general maintenance and if any health issue were to arise, and if an owner is not able to do that the snake will suffer.

Keep asking questions, Kortanul. We aren't here to judge but here to guide you and help out however we can. :)

This is why you're my favorite. :)

[RAD House]

Not what i ment^^^

But, she needs to able to take it out and clean the enclousre completely, she need to pick it up and take it to the vet if the snake becomes sick, she need to treat the snake if it gets mites, and if the snake gets out, she need to not be scared to grab it and put it back in! Im alright with displaying snakes. But when some problems show up, she will need to learn to handle them!
The op seems to want to take proper care of the snake, so I am not sure why you would jump to telling them to get rid of it. You could have stated they will need to move the animal periodically for cleaning, and let them decide if they are up to it.
If it's to the point of being afraid to touch it at all I completely disagree with you here, Anthony. It would need to be removed perodically for general maintenance and if any health issue were to arise, and if an owner is not able to do that the snake will suffer.

Keep asking questions, Kortanul. We aren't here to judge but here to guide you and help out however we can. :)

You are making a lot of assumptions.

[Andy_G]

You are making a lot of assumptions.

Nope, no assumtions made by me, just presenting a possibility... I bolded the word "if" for a reason. We simply can't assume good or bad without knowing more. I'd like to entertain you with the idea that you may be reading what has been written and making assumptions yourself, and that's ok.

Let's try to focus on helping out the OP further now that's out of the way. I have zero issues deleting squabble related posts and bringing this back in before it gets out of hand.

[Kortanul]

Alright, first off, I ain't scared of the snake, and it ain't aggressive--I know what an aggressive animal's like. She's definitely defensive (as I stated before) however. Before the owner left she had already gone months without handling, and now it's up to like 7 months without any actual handling beyond stressing and sometimes lunging when a hand enters the tank.

Primary reason for coming here, really, was to ask about how to get a 6' long, old, seemingly perfectly healthy but not in any way accustomed to humans boa... used to a human. I see guides all over for babies, or for starting up again after a few weeks without handling a corn snake or the likes. This is not a little snake and I'd rather not actually upset it.

It was deciding that I want to completely clean the tank and replace the substrate that led me to this forum. If I've a snake, I wanna get it adapted to life as a a pet snake so it doesn't see me as some terrifying giant rummaging through/threatening her home. I take care of catfish, cichlids, and formerly an eel and grouper. That eel scared me, the boa does not.

My first inclination has been to toss a shirt or two in the tank to let her know my scent--works for other animals, surely it'll help a smell-reliant reptile? In addition, after a bit of that, probably don some leather gloves and layer a couple flannel shirts, and reach in slow, careful not to startle her. I've a 40 gallon plastic tote to transfer her into for tank cleaning once I can comfortably handle her.

I'm sure I could just grab and wrestle her if I really had to, but why needlessly stress and potentially injure a snake that's doing nothing but living and being (rightfully) suspicious of the large animal messing with her home? That's why I'm here. To do it right.



For pictures, check a/io6nq on imgur--won't let me post links or images.

[trailblazer295]

You could try tap training, tap the boa with a hook when you're not feeding and just offer food the other times. Many people do this with medium to large snakes to disassociate hands and food. If she is cage defensive like you say a hook will also help in removing her. Many people who have cage defensive snakes calm down once out of the cage.

[Scubadiver59]

You need five posts to post pictures.

The t-shirt thing ain't gonna work--it's not a dog.

You're right, Wrestle it = more stress.

Go low, slow, from below or from the side...but if you're using an aquarium, nearly impossible, but doable.

[jay's reptiles]

i would buy a snake hook and start tap training as soon as possible. Pull her out with the hook. Most snakes will stop the nipping once they are out of their enclosure. hope this helps.

[Kortanul]

A hook, and begin tap training. Got it. Would never have thought of this. Effectively you're teaching it a signal specifically tied to handling and not feeding, aye? Like. Tap the edge of the tank, slide it open, and touch or lightly lift her with the hook, and reuse that routine every time?

[trailblazer295]

Touch/gently push the snake with the hook. Yes you're trying to associate your hand away from food. After nudging her then use the hook to remove her from the cage. Every time you're not feeding tap her, even if you're just changing water.

[jay's reptiles]

A hook, and begin tap training. Got it. Would never have thought of this. Effectively you're teaching it a signal specifically tied to handling and not feeding, aye? Like. Tap the edge of the tank, slide it open, and touch or lightly lift her with the hook, and reuse that routine every time? Yes. You've got it.

Btw i only ment for you to give the snake away if their was no way for you to get over your fear. No hard feelings.

[Kortanul]

Yes. You've got it.

Btw i only ment for you to give the snake away if their was no way for you to get over your fear. No hard feelings.

I tell people similar all the time about fish. If you can't get a big enough tank, can't clean regularly enough, can't afford proper feed, won't do water changes, won't check quality, etc, etc... Gotta rule things out. You like that lionfish you bought but don't wanna have to wear elbow gloves to reach into the tank? Return it.

So I understand the sentiment. If you can't/won't care for something proper, you shouldn't have it. xD

[jay's reptiles]

I tell people similar all the time about fish. If you can't get a big enough tank, can't clean regularly enough, can't afford proper feed, won't do water changes, won't check quality, etc, etc... Gotta rule things out. You like that lionfish you bought but don't wanna have to wear elbow gloves to reach into the tank? Return it.

So I understand the sentiment. If you can't/won't care for something proper, you shouldn't have it. xD

You're now my favorite. I'm glad you understand. You should see the size of the minnows that are in our pond. They must have adpated. Because these arent your average minnow anymore. They are about 10 inches long and about 2 inches thick.

[GyGbeetle]

I agree with the tap training method, either with a hook or with your hand/finger. I didn't see anywhere previous where it talks about frequency. You want to ensure that you're doing this frequently, say 3-5 times per week, about 10-15 mins at a time. If you do get bit, try not to pull away too. Keep a water bottle handy to spray in their face if he latches on and bites down, and don't reward him by putting him back in his enclosure.

I had a really hissy snake that took 2 weeks for her to acclimate to humans. 2 weeks of working with her daily. She's a boa, a rather large and older boa. She came from a possibly abusive background too. She hasn't bit once; has lunged, and done other stuff, but hasn't bit.

Good luck and keep us all posted.

[Andy_G]

I agree with the tap training method, either with a hook or with your hand/finger. I didn't see anywhere previous where it talks about frequency. You want to ensure that you're doing this frequently, say 3-5 times per week, about 10-15 mins at a time. If you do get bit, try not to pull away too. Keep a water bottle handy to spray in their face if he latches on and bites down, and don't reward him by putting him back in his enclosure.

I had a really hissy snake that took 2 weeks for her to acclimate to humans. 2 weeks of working with her daily. She's a boa, a rather large and older boa. She came from a possibly abusive background too. She hasn't bit once; has lunged, and done other stuff, but hasn't bit.

Good luck and keep us all posted.

Please don't ever attempt to tap train with your hand or finger. The whole purpose of tap training with a hook is to have the snake associate the hook with a warm hand coming in after for handling and not warm food. Using your hand defeats and goes against tap training entirely...it would actually be a fantastic way to get bitten. I'd also say that if you do get bit, put the snake back to reduce stress on both you and the snake and also so you can tend to the bite. Taking bites and continuing with handlling is fine with babies, but i'd suggest placing adults back when that happens.

[Aaron_S]

A hook, and begin tap training. Got it. Would never have thought of this. Effectively you're teaching it a signal specifically tied to handling and not feeding, aye? Like. Tap the edge of the tank, slide it open, and touch or lightly lift her with the hook, and reuse that routine every time?

Yup. Just do it when you're in there for cleaning and water changes and the like.

Similarly I recommend doing something similar for feeding. Such as feeding ONLY at night. I only feed my snakes at night and never handle them so at night they sort of "turn on" and would be rather difficult to work with for cleaning. However, during the day they are quite easy going.

[GyGbeetle]

Please don't ever attempt to tap train with your hand or finger. The whole purpose of tap training with a hook is to have the snake associate the hook with a warm hand coming in after for handling and not warm food. Using your hand defeats and goes against tap training entirely...it would actually be a fantastic way to get bitten. I'd also say that if you do get bit, put the snake back to reduce stress on both you and the snake and also so you can tend to the bite. Taking bites and continuing with handlling is fine with babies, but i'd suggest placing adults back when that happens.

Tap training involves tapping the side of the tank to give the snake a cue that a hand is entering their enclosure. If the enclosure is closed, which is usually what's been recommended to me, simply tapping with your hand or a hook won't involve any biting from the animal. The idea is to give them a consistent trigger to let them know a hand, not food, will be entering the tank.

What you're describing is hook training, which involves taking the hook into the enclosure in order to handle the snake. If OP feels a bite is imminent, then yes, don't use your hand when trying to touch/handle the snake. But the 2 should not be confused.

For adult and baby boas, providing them their enclosure after a bite only encourages the behaviour. i.e. if they bite and are always put back into their enclosure, they will learn when they DON'T want to be handled, they can bite and be rewarded with solitude. There are ample cases where vets, herps, and breeders alike discourage this reward system. yes, it's scarier with older and large snakes (I have retics and burms, and it's very scary), but it also teaches a sense of acceptance between the snake and the handler, so that the snake understands the handler is in charge.

[Andy_G]

Tap training involves tapping the side of the tank to give the snake a cue that a hand is entering their enclosure. If the enclosure is closed, which is usually what's been recommended to me, simply tapping with your hand or a hook won't involve any biting from the animal. The idea is to give them a consistent trigger to let them know a hand, not food, will be entering the tank.

What you're describing is hook training, which involves taking the hook into the enclosure in order to handle the snake. If OP feels a bite is imminent, then yes, don't use your hand when trying to touch/handle the snake. But the 2 should not be confused.

For adult and baby boas, providing them their enclosure after a bite only encourages the behaviour. i.e. if they bite and are always put back into their enclosure, they will learn when they DON'T want to be handled, they can bite and be rewarded with solitude. There are ample cases where vets, herps, and breeders alike discourage this reward system. yes, it's scarier with older and large snakes (I have retics and burms, and it's very scary), but it also teaches a sense of acceptance between the snake and the handler, so that the snake understands the handler is in charge.

I don't know who told you the definition of "tap training" but there was a mix up. For tap training you are using an object (hook, stick, etc.) to gently touch or stroke the head, and hook training is getting a snake used to be handled completely with a hook, usually with hots or with other hands off species. What you are describing is just striking the cage or tapping the glass or maybe what a very small amount of people may call it but it's certainly notbthe intended use. Feel free to use the all knowing goole "tap training snakes" if you feel I lack the knowledge to back this up by all means.

As far as the handling tips go...go get nailed by a large constrictor and keep it out for a while and let me know how great that goes. It's fine and appropriate to take baby bites because it's no big deal and they'll learn you aren't a threat. They learn docility... what is and what is not a threat, not submissiveness from being handled. Snakes do not bite out of dominance so trying to establish dominance in the way you describe is going to do nothing. These are not mammals and shouldn't be treated as such. I'm all for debate, but you really shouldn't be telling new people this. If bitten by a large constrictor, put it back, tend to the bite, and try again without getting bit.

[Aaron_S]

Tap training involves tapping the side of the tank to give the snake a cue that a hand is entering their enclosure. If the enclosure is closed, which is usually what's been recommended to me, simply tapping with your hand or a hook won't involve any biting from the animal. The idea is to give them a consistent trigger to let them know a hand, not food, will be entering the tank.

What you're describing is hook training, which involves taking the hook into the enclosure in order to handle the snake. If OP feels a bite is imminent, then yes, don't use your hand when trying to touch/handle the snake. But the 2 should not be confused.

For adult and baby boas, providing them their enclosure after a bite only encourages the behaviour. i.e. if they bite and are always put back into their enclosure, they will learn when they DON'T want to be handled, they can bite and be rewarded with solitude. There are ample cases where vets, herps, and breeders alike discourage this reward system. yes, it's scarier with older and large snakes (I have retics and burms, and it's very scary), but it also teaches a sense of acceptance between the snake and the handler, so that the snake understands the handler is in charge.

At one point you probably were right on those definitions. However, as with everything, things change and hook/tap training became interchangeable using the definition of hook training you provided.

I think your definition of tap training isn't a good idea because it leaves things out of your control. You can accidentally tap the enclosure during feeding time a couple times and all of a sudden the next handling session and the snake takes a bite. The best method in my eyes and experience is simply hook training.

Further to your handling choice. It's rather archaic. That method of force isn't getting a snake to respect you it's applying enough stress that it eventually just becomes placated and probably will lead to an early death. You mention you handled a boa for 2 weeks every single day to "acclimate" it. That's forcing stress on an animal until it's so stressed that it doesn't fight anymore.

Acclamation would be leaving a defensive (snakes are never aggressive) animal alone and keeping a routine. Eventually over time they mellow out and grow to understand the routine isn't harmful to them. I have and has a few snakes like this. It isn't 2 weeks though it's a process of months and years.

[Kortanul]

Well, that's promising. She seems to understand to some extent. Not sure if this is just natural or if she remembers the training from a few years ago before her last owner/the former roommate brought her home. Regardless, I still have a process ahead of me to get her on a schedule and properly trained.

Tapped the left front edge of the tank, slid the lid open a few inches, the tell-tale S in the neck was present, tapped the top of her head with the bent metal rod I procured, gently stroked her head and body until she settled down and started relaxing a bit. I then slid the lid open more, slowly reached in, she was starting to compress, looking ready to strike, so I did it again, calmed her down a little, pulled the water dish and grabbed a few shed skins, and slid the lid shut--foregoing the clips as I was just cleaning the dish and she doesn't really test the lid (she did months ago but seems to accept that the lid is a barrier now)

Had to tap and stroke her head a little with the rod again before I could return the water dish, but that worked to get her to settle down long enough to set the dish down and straighten it out before pouring in two gallons of water (I picked up spring water for this refill!). She was on the box so I couldn't move it back into place--she pushed it toward the dish when she last fed and blocked the opening. I'll try to get that tomorrow, and clean up the other end.

To clean the glass and replace the coco fiber, I'll need to remove her, but this is a refreshing bit of progress over the spotty reach in, grab, and shut that I've been having to do. In due time!

That said, she's happy with her fresh water and clean dish, as always. Climbed right in, so the third and final gallon will have to wait for later--she doesn't appreciate it when water is poured on top of her.

http://i.imgur.com/aJMkM1A.jpg

EDIT: To be clear, way I see it, snakes are, like other reptiles, modern dinos. They're smart, but they don't understand emotions and bonding like us squishy mammals. They tolerate us, they don't *like* us. So you teach them a system that's good for both of you--minimizes their stress, lets them just live, and lets you be a comfortable caretaker.

[Scubadiver59]

Bravo, bravo! And so your journey begins...I wish you the best of luck...both of you! :)

Well, that's promising. She seems to understand to some extent. Not sure if this is just natural or if she remembers the training from a few years ago before her last owner/the former roommate brought her home. Regardless, I still have a process ahead of me to get her on a schedule and properly trained.

Tapped the left front edge of the tank, slid the lid open a few inches, the tell-tale S in the neck was present, tapped the top of her head with the bent metal rod I procured, gently stroked her head and body until she settled down and started relaxing a bit. I then slid the lid open more, slowly reached in, she was starting to compress, looking ready to strike, so I did it again, calmed her down a little, pulled the water dish and grabbed a few shed skins, and slid the lid shut--foregoing the clips as I was just cleaning the dish and she doesn't really test the lid (she did months ago but seems to accept that the lid is a barrier now)

Had to tap and stroke her head a little with the rod again before I could return the water dish, but that worked to get her to settle down long enough to set the dish down and straighten it out before pouring in two gallons of water (I picked up spring water for this refill!). She was on the box so I couldn't move it back into place--she pushed it toward the dish when she last fed and blocked the opening. I'll try to get that tomorrow, and clean up the other end.

To clean the glass and replace the coco fiber, I'll need to remove her, but this is a refreshing bit of progress over the spotty reach in, grab, and shut that I've been having to do. In due time!

That said, she's happy with her fresh water and clean dish, as always. Climbed right in, so the third and final gallon will have to wait for later--she doesn't appreciate it when water is poured on top of her.

[Kortanul]

Bravo, bravo! And so your journey begins...I wish you the best of luck...both of you! :)

Thank you! All of you, really. This has been quite helpful. I look forward to this snake becoming part of the collection rather than "that snake over there". Never planned on a snake, but I did want an iguana. Close enough!

[Scubadiver59]

Uh, yeah...they're the same...no difference...etc. If anything, the snake is sexier! :rolleyes:

Thank you! All of you, really. This has been quite helpful. I look forward to this snake becoming part of the collection rather than "that snake over there". Never planned on a snake, but I did want an iguana. Close enough!

[Kortanul]

Uh, yeah...they're the same...no difference...etc. If anything, the snake is sexier! :rolleyes:

I mean, the snake is somehow less dangerous, bigger, cooler, and more entertaining to feed (like that grouper I used to have. Loved feeding that thing.)

Iguanas just scratch/cut the hell out of you without trying but look cool. Boa > iguana, I lucked out in this matter.

[trailblazer295]

Welcome to the forum and be warned you're about to catch the sickness MUAHAHAH :D. She is a nice looking boa. Any questions we'll help you out.