Docile, and beautiful snakes for newbies

[PredatorPraetor]

Hello, I was wondering if there are snakes that -aren't- ball pythons, that had many color morphs and were docile, easy to handle and do not bite people?

I was looking for something small or medium- nothing bigger than a corn snake. I wanted something that won't bite or affect my reflects essentially as I am a tad jumpy sometimes.

I am not exactly looking to handle it often, but just that when I did I didn't want to get bit or hurting it by accident.

I am 100% a newbie in this and don't know where to start. I used to own a garter snake when I was really young and liked them because unlike turtles they didn't stink up the room.

The only corn snake that I can legally keep- that I also liked was the blizzard corn snake (the white one with no pattern and black eyes). I live in NJ if that helps.

I was hoping for a easier snake to keep. Alternatives would be nice as well. Just no ball pythons please. Had an accident with one once so no thank you.

[toddnbecka]

I have a couple dozen 2016 Dominican mountain boas available. Very docile and easy to handle regardless of age or size, worst they ever do is musk. They grow to about the same size as a rat snake, slender-bodied like a carpet python rather than heavy-bodied like a red tail or Dumeril's boa. They do need more humidity than a corn or king snake, so I use cypress mulch in their enclosures, but the temp requirements aren't very high. Definitely more active than a ball python, but not flighty when picked up.

[dannybgoode]

Hello, I was wondering if there are snakes that -aren't- ball pythons, that had many color morphs and were docile, easy to handle and do not bite people?

I was looking for something small or medium- nothing bigger than a corn snake. I wanted something that won't bite or affect my reflects essentially as I am a tad jumpy sometimes.

I am not exactly looking to handle it often, but just that when I did I didn't want to get bit or hurting it by accident.

I am 100% a newbie in this and don't know where to start. I used to own a garter snake when I was really young and liked them because unlike turtles they didn't stink up the room.

The only corn snake that I can legally keep- that I also liked was the blizzard corn snake (the white one with no pattern and black eyes). I live in NJ if that helps.

I was hoping for a easier snake to keep. Alternatives would be nice as well. Just no ball pythons please. Had an accident with one once so no thank you.

For what reason can you only keep one morph of corn? Surely a corn is a corn but I don't fully understand the vagaries of state law so interested to learn.

Trouble is I wouldn't say any snake is 100% docile-the worst bite I've taken from a snake (so far) was from a corn for example so anything you get could nip of it felt threatened. If one incident can put you off an entire species perhaps snakes are not a good choice full stop.

What was the accident with the ball and perhap that will help us determine better what puts you off and can make better recommendations.

[jjhill001]

Hello, I was wondering if there are snakes that -aren't- ball pythons, that had many color morphs and were docile, easy to handle and do not bite people?

I was looking for something small or medium- nothing bigger than a corn snake. I wanted something that won't bite or affect my reflects essentially as I am a tad jumpy sometimes.

I am not exactly looking to handle it often, but just that when I did I didn't want to get bit or hurting it by accident.

I am 100% a newbie in this and don't know where to start. I used to own a garter snake when I was really young and liked them because unlike turtles they didn't stink up the room.

The only corn snake that I can legally keep- that I also liked was the blizzard corn snake (the white one with no pattern and black eyes). I live in NJ if that helps.

I was hoping for a easier snake to keep. Alternatives would be nice as well. Just no ball pythons please. Had an accident with one once so no thank you.

Baird's Rat Snake, not a lot of morphs but I'll bet my life on it that they are legal in NJ.

[jjhill001]

For what reason can you only keep one morph of corn? Surely a corn is a corn but I don't fully understand the vagaries of state law so interested to learn.

Trouble is I wouldn't say any snake is 100% docile-the worst bite I've taken from a snake (so far) was from a corn for example so anything you get could nip of it felt threatened. If one incident can put you off an entire species perhaps snakes are not a good choice full stop.

What was the accident with the ball and perhap that will help us determine better what puts you off and can make better recommendations.

Cornsnakes are native to New Jersey and are considered endangered there. So in natural American fashion they decided to be morons and pass legislation to prevent the sale of normal corn snakes.

I will say this to Predator, if you keep any NON-natural color morph I'm gonna say that you'll be fine. I know what the law says but to be honest no one is gonna know the difference.

[Tiny Boidae]

Anything with a mouth can bite, not just snakes in general but any animal you get. If they're hurt or feel threatened, they can bite. The only thing I will say is that I'd much rather be bitten by a snake than any mammal. That being said, if you're super concerned about a bite, get a yearling or adult animal. That way you could be certain of it's temperament because baby snakes of any species tend to be more nervous.

I would second the Baird's Rat Snake, as they're pretty much as tame as a snake comes and they have a natural beauty to appreciate. Might be a little harder to find but you could get into contact with some breeders who might be able to find you one. That being said, they have an insane feeding response. You'll never have a problem getting one to eat, but if one would bite you it'd be during feeding. And those tend to prompt the worse bites. This isn't a species-exclusive thing to be bitten out of a mistaken feeding response, so it's something to keep in mind regardless.

[Aaron_S]

If you're jumpy you'd want to look into slower moving snakes than the smaller, faster colubrids.

Spotted pythons, sand boas, rosy boas are all good choices. I also recommend buying an adult. A little tougher to find than babies however you'll already know the temperment so you can expand on what you're looking for easier.

Honduran, sinoloan, nelson's milksnakes would be good choices as well. Achieve a good size but also are colourful. I've found the larger milksnake species tend to be better with handling especially if you find an adult already accustomed to it.

[Andy_G]

As Aaron and others have said, if you don't want jumpy stick with adult colubrids or some kind of small boa or python.

[Scubadiver59]

I'll second this advice! My two juvenile snakes, a King and Corn, are nothing but jumpy and "let me out of here" squirming, etc. The BP I have is nothing but slow, twist into a ball, type of movement, and the 7yr old Albino King I picked up the other day is as docile as can be.

As Aaron and others have said, if you don't want jumpy stick with adult colubrids or some kind of small boa or python.

[TRD]

I always handle the young snakes that I get before buying them from a breeder... if they are already calm when just 2-3 months old, they will likely be nice and calm later on too. I'm more going towards personality than looks, as long as they are healthy.

Given the kingsnakes, milksnakes, and sandboas that I have, I find the sandboas the least comfortable to handle. They really do not seem to appreciate it one bit. Yes, they are slow, but to me there's nothing worse than holding a snake that obviously does not want to be held. If you have any intention to handle the snake 1-2x per week, I wouldn't get a sandboa. Besides you won't see them a lot if they have anything to dig into, they will hide completely out of sight 23.5 hours a day.

Out of the kingsnakes and milksnakes, the kingsnakes seem to be calmer, milks seem to be a bit more appreciative of privacy. Then out of the sexes, the guys seem to be the least concerned about humans and more bold in their actions. But this is just my observation.

PS. Any snake may bite you at some point, due to misunderstanding or just generally doesn't want you to come near him that particular day. Even my calmest snake that never had any form of aggression had a "mood" last week and instead of coming out onto my hand when I opened the terrarium (as he normally does) he just struck me on my finger and gave me a good chew, all for nothing really, maybe I smelled like mouse, dunno. It hurts some, sure, it draws blood too. But heck - it simply happens, and besides the initial "scare" it is really no big deal with smaller snakes. It's not like when you keep cats or a dog that you never get scratched or bitten.

[ttreptile1]

It really comes down to the snake, previous owner etc. For me personally I have had snakes that run the gamut. However, some of my best beginner experiences from long ago were with Rosy boas, Sand boas and Eastern Indigos. The first two being better for beginners.

[PredatorPraetor]

For what reason can you only keep one morph of corn? Surely a corn is a corn but I don't fully understand the vagaries of state law so interested to learn.

Trouble is I wouldn't say any snake is 100% docile-the worst bite I've taken from a snake (so far) was from a corn for example so anything you get could nip of it felt threatened. If one incident can put you off an entire species perhaps snakes are not a good choice full stop.

What was the accident with the ball and perhap that will help us determine better what puts you off and can make better recommendations.

Uh I worked at a petstore long ago, they had this ball python who was mean as the dickens... I was just cleaning his cage and had to remove him at some point but before me even touching him he struck at me several times... and when I picked him up asides from striking at me he was getting tight around the hand which just made me feel uncomfortable.

I've actually seen fully grown green anacondas and not to diss anyone I just don't see them as pets and have my own personal opinions of them, but basically I got freaked out because it was all in my face when I took it out and I almost dropped it because it just kept going at it.

To be honest, I was fine when I handled a garter snake it bit me once but that was about it- the rest of the times it just musked and you know what? I was young and it was wild caught and I wasn't in the state at the time.



Anywho, the whole color morph for corns thing is in on one of their sites for the pet dealer info and html. I'd link but it wont allow m e to.

[PredatorPraetor]

Baird's Rat Snake, not a lot of morphs but I'll bet my life on it that they are legal in NJ.

What's the difference between a rat and a corn snake? Is there a list of color morphs for these? I actually like the blizzard corns, I just wanted to see other possible alternatives. I would like an active snake but then again I know there is no such thing. lol

[PredatorPraetor]

Cornsnakes are native to New Jersey and are considered endangered there. So in natural American fashion they decided to be morons and pass legislation to prevent the sale of normal corn snakes.

I will say this to Predator, if you keep any NON-natural color morph I'm gonna say that you'll be fine. I know what the law says but to be honest no one is gonna know the difference.

Would a vet know? I mean you have to take snakes to vets right? But yeah, if a cop came t my house they probably wouldnt know.

To be honest, I wanted a docile snake about the size or less than a corn snake because I have family that comes over and I dont want them to be freaked out if they saw a big snake either.

I am actually fine with snakes, just that one incident freaked me out...

To be honest I did something stupid once and I am not proud of I kind of tried to herp with a copperhead around here and I am lucky it didnt strike me. lol i didnt know it was a copperhead at the time, but I am always careful with any wild animal I cant 100% ID

[PredatorPraetor]

Anything with a mouth can bite, not just snakes in general but any animal you get. If they're hurt or feel threatened, they can bite. The only thing I will say is that I'd much rather be bitten by a snake than any mammal. That being said, if you're super concerned about a bite, get a yearling or adult animal. That way you could be certain of it's temperament because baby snakes of any species tend to be more nervous.

I would second the Baird's Rat Snake, as they're pretty much as tame as a snake comes and they have a natural beauty to appreciate. Might be a little harder to find but you could get into contact with some breeders who might be able to find you one. That being said, they have an insane feeding response. You'll never have a problem getting one to eat, but if one would bite you it'd be during feeding. And those tend to prompt the worse bites. This isn't a species-exclusive thing to be bitten out of a mistaken feeding response, so it's something to keep in mind regardless.

Well I mean yeah anything with a mouth can bite. I've been bitten by fully grown common snapping turtles and while it hurt I tolerated it more. Because it didn't really startle me as much as a "right in my face, kind of whiplash bite" .

I like snakes that I've seen in the wild around here... but I am not so sure about pythons I've seen a rosy boa, thought they were cool.

I also saw a video on western hogsnakes from some famous yootoob channel but I cant link it. I liked the hogsnakes a bit but not the whole pretend to strike. That's what throws me off.

[PredatorPraetor]

If you're jumpy you'd want to look into slower moving snakes than the smaller, faster colubrids.

Spotted pythons, sand boas, rosy boas are all good choices. I also recommend buying an adult. A little tougher to find than babies however you'll already know the temperment so you can expand on what you're looking for easier.

Honduran, sinoloan, nelson's milksnakes would be good choices as well. Achieve a good size but also are colourful. I've found the larger milksnake species tend to be better with handling especially if you find an adult already accustomed to it.

I looked up some of these up and a medium sized milksnake would be fine. I saw a photo of a really large milksnake, looked bigger than a corn snake wasnt so sure I'd be fond of it.

As for buying adults, how long do snakes typically live and how can you be assured that the seller isnt selling you off some old snake that's like about to die in a year or two and charges you more for it?

[PredatorPraetor]

I always handle the young snakes that I get before buying them from a breeder... if they are already calm when just 2-3 months old, they will likely be nice and calm later on too. I'm more going towards personality than looks, as long as they are healthy.

Given the kingsnakes, milksnakes, and sandboas that I have, I find the sandboas the least comfortable to handle. They really do not seem to appreciate it one bit. Yes, they are slow, but to me there's nothing worse than holding a snake that obviously does not want to be held. If you have any intention to handle the snake 1-2x per week, I wouldn't get a sandboa. Besides you won't see them a lot if they have anything to dig into, they will hide completely out of sight 23.5 hours a day.

Out of the kingsnakes and milksnakes, the kingsnakes seem to be calmer, milks seem to be a bit more appreciative of privacy. Then out of the sexes, the guys seem to be the least concerned about humans and more bold in their actions. But this is just my observation.

PS. Any snake may bite you at some point, due to misunderstanding or just generally doesn't want you to come near him that particular day. Even my calmest snake that never had any form of aggression had a "mood" last week and instead of coming out onto my hand when I opened the terrarium (as he normally does) he just struck me on my finger and gave me a good chew, all for nothing really, maybe I smelled like mouse, dunno. It hurts some, sure, it draws blood too. But heck - it simply happens, and besides the initial "scare" it is really no big deal with smaller snakes. It's not like when you keep cats or a dog that you never get scratched or bitten.
When I lived in Puerto Rico, we only saw (in the wild) these garter snakes, some green colored slender snakes, some big and thick black snakes that were apparently harmless but people would kill them out of simple fear(just like they'd kill the giant toads because they thought they give warts).


I also don't want a giant snake because I plan on owning a tiny dog and if in case by any chance the snake escaped, I don't want the dog to be snake chow....


Personally I got rather fond of the blizzard corn snakes and wonder if there are other completely white snakes with black eyes? (not pink white, like just white)

I also like green colors, I've seen this black and white kingsnake but I feel as if these grow rather large. Not sure about their size. On another note, I once (silly I know) ponder on the idea of medium to small palidrium with like water area that was visible, and a water snake(also caught baby water snakes in nj- to observe and release) but I doubt that's possible as the only water snake I heard of in captivity would be an anaconda. Which I am terrified of....

[Aaron_S]

I looked up some of these up and a medium sized milksnake would be fine. I saw a photo of a really large milksnake, looked bigger than a corn snake wasnt so sure I'd be fond of it.

As for buying adults, how long do snakes typically live and how can you be assured that the seller isnt selling you off some old snake that's like about to die in a year or two and charges you more for it?

Most milksnakes don't get large. Find a male if you're concerned it might be too big for you. Size ranking from smallest to biggest would be:

Nelson's
Sinoloan
Honduran

These types of snakes easily live 10+ years. I personally see most people get in and out of the hobby pretty quick so most adult snakes aren't too old. I also find a lot of people will openly tell you the age or how long they've had it.
Also, adult snakes are a bit tougher to sell so the price point shouldn't be too much different from a baby, sometimes even less!

Do some sleuthing and you'll be fine. Check with breeders who may want to sell a retired breeder or who wants to replace a specific animal with a morph. Most breeders will tell you the temperment of the animal in question.

[PredatorPraetor]

Most milksnakes don't get large. Find a male if you're concerned it might be too big for you. Size ranking from smallest to biggest would be:

Nelson's
Sinoloan
Honduran

These types of snakes easily live 10+ years. I personally see most people get in and out of the hobby pretty quick so most adult snakes aren't too old. I also find a lot of people will openly tell you the age or how long they've had it.
Also, adult snakes are a bit tougher to sell so the price point shouldn't be too much different from a baby, sometimes even less!

Do some sleuthing and you'll be fine. Check with breeders who may want to sell a retired breeder or who wants to replace a specific animal with a morph. Most breeders will tell you the temperment of the animal in question.
Do any milksnakes have a "blizzard" color morph like the corns? White skin(no pink), black eyes.

Just curious as to how many snakes come in that color.

How much should these cost? And how much does a blizzard corn snake cost?

[SerpentineDream]

IIRC in New Jersey you are restricted to corn snake morphs that have red eyes, no?

I have a striped blizzard Tessera corn snake that was $375 but would expect a plain blizzard corn to cost considerably less.

Corn snakes are awesome. The *majority* are not bitey and they come in a zillion color patterns.

Mexican milk snakes are also great pets. Calmer than most milks, chunky but not very long, bright colors.

African house snakes are small and a lot of fun but hard to find.

Western hognoses startle you at first with the bluffing but you get over it. The only time you're likely to get bitten is if you smell like food or are careless at feeding time. Same with the house snakes, come to think of it.

There are lots of different garter subspecies if you are inclined to go that route but want a different look.

California king snake would fit the bill too.

The only snake I can think of offhand with the color scheme you like is a black-eyed leucistic... ball python. ;)

[Aaron_S]

Do any milksnakes have a "blizzard" color morph like the corns? White skin(no pink), black eyes.

Just curious as to how many snakes come in that color.

How much should these cost? And how much does a blizzard corn snake cost?

I don't know of any blizzard milk snakes. Might be one but I don't know it. However, blizzard corns are a mix of Charcoal and albino so the snake will have red/pink eyes and you may get some yellow in the colour as it matures.

I wouldn't pay too much for a blizzard myself. Been around a really long time. $100?

[eminart]

Hello, I was wondering if there are snakes that -aren't- ball pythons, that had many color morphs and were docile, easy to handle and do not bite people?

I was looking for something small or medium- nothing bigger than a corn snake. I wanted something that won't bite or affect my reflects essentially as I am a tad jumpy sometimes.

I am not exactly looking to handle it often, but just that when I did I didn't want to get bit or hurting it by accident.

I am 100% a newbie in this and don't know where to start. I used to own a garter snake when I was really young and liked them because unlike turtles they didn't stink up the room.

The only corn snake that I can legally keep- that I also liked was the blizzard corn snake (the white one with no pattern and black eyes). I live in NJ if that helps.

I was hoping for a easier snake to keep. Alternatives would be nice as well. Just no ball pythons please. Had an accident with one once so no thank you.


Well, they all can and do bite. There are certainly some species that are less prone to biting than others, but don't go in thinking it will never happen. However, a bite from a medium sized snake is really nothing notable. I'd rather be bitten by a corn snake than get scratched by a rose bush or any other thorn bush.

As mentioned, a corn snake is probably the best match for your criteria. Generally, colubrids are going to be a bit more "wiggly" than the boas and pythons, especially when young. I think most of the suitable species have already been mentioned. I will say, from my experience, the milk snakes tend to be more flighty than what you might want.

I'll also say that, while I totally understand if you don't want a ball python (not my cup of tea either), you're probably not going to find a more docile, easy to handle snake than the average BP.

Just remember, snakes are reptiles. They're really nothing like a mammal. Most of the species commonly kept as pets will adjust quite well to captivity and being handled, but many of them will still bite defensively, or as a feeding response.

[Magdalen]

African house snakes are small and a lot of fun but hard to find.
;)

I just got one of these back in early March, but yeah they are hard to find and go fast when they were for sale. The babies are hard to get started eating (eating machines once they do, mine hasn't missed a meal so far) so I think that discourages some breeders. There aren't too many color morphs in the US yet.

[PredatorPraetor]

IIRC in New Jersey you are restricted to corn snake morphs that have red eyes, no?

I have a striped blizzard Tessera corn snake that was $375 but would expect a plain blizzard corn to cost considerably less.

Corn snakes are awesome. The *majority* are not bitey and they come in a zillion color patterns.

Mexican milk snakes are also great pets. Calmer than most milks, chunky but not very long, bright colors.

African house snakes are small and a lot of fun but hard to find.

Western hognoses startle you at first with the bluffing but you get over it. The only time you're likely to get bitten is if you smell like food or are careless at feeding time. Same with the house snakes, come to think of it.

There are lots of different garter subspecies if you are inclined to go that route but want a different look.

California king snake would fit the bill too.

The only snake I can think of offhand with the color scheme you like is a black-eyed leucistic... ball python. ;)

So many names.. lol I know what hognoses look like, milks, kings, ball pythons, etc.

Just many color names , etc. Wish they'd just simple call it for the white ones "White ballpython" Or "White Corn Snake". If it has a pattern then that makes sense, but if it's a simple color scheme then I think just calling it for what it is should be fine.


Although a white ball python seems less intimidating to me to be honest I am not so sure it's a good idea. It'd freak out people who would come over(parents, and other family members). Plus the main problem is aren't ball python color morphs usually like thousands of dollars? Even a 500 dollar snake sounds like a bad plan to me... Like no offense to all of you people who spend a lot on your snakes. It's only a problem for me because I am a beginner and what if I screw up and that 500 dollar snake dies- now it's essentially down the drain?

Regardless of what anyone says I try to not consciously drop so much money at once on something that potentially may not live past a few weeks.

Just like when I wanted a leuistic (leucistic? -- eh just white) turtle and I didn't buy it because of how expensive it was an how I knew how turtles aren't easy to keep....


I know some people are very gung-ho on this kind of stuff I just think I should take on something more manageable easy.

The only other issue with a snake like a ball python is.

I won't lie. I plan on bringing in a small dog breed. About the size of a chihuahua or some other small breed. But I don't want the snake to be a potential danger to the dog if it accidentally escapes. Because lets face it, no amount of care won't account for accidents. Accidents, are just that-- accidents.

As for garter snakes. How long do they generally live though? I thought they were short lived?

[PredatorPraetor]

I don't know of any blizzard milk snakes. Might be one but I don't know it. However, blizzard corns are a mix of Charcoal and albino so the snake will have red/pink eyes and you may get some yellow in the colour as it matures.

I wouldn't pay too much for a blizzard myself. Been around a really long time. $100?

Yellow? So the snake wouldn't stay completely white? :x

[PredatorPraetor]

Well, they all can and do bite. There are certainly some species that are less prone to biting than others, but don't go in thinking it will never happen. However, a bite from a medium sized snake is really nothing notable. I'd rather be bitten by a corn snake than get scratched by a rose bush or any other thorn bush.

As mentioned, a corn snake is probably the best match for your criteria. Generally, colubrids are going to be a bit more "wiggly" than the boas and pythons, especially when young. I think most of the suitable species have already been mentioned. I will say, from my experience, the milk snakes tend to be more flighty than what you might want.

I'll also say that, while I totally understand if you don't want a ball python (not my cup of tea either), you're probably not going to find a more docile, easy to handle snake than the average BP.

Just remember, snakes are reptiles. They're really nothing like a mammal. Most of the species commonly kept as pets will adjust quite well to captivity and being handled, but many of them will still bite defensively, or as a feeding response.
I understand, obviously anything with a set of teeth will bite. Heck, even a human child can(and some do) bite for no apparent reason. My problem is the kind of bite. How deep it goes and stuff.

I didn't want to mention this-- but I have some health problems. One of those problems require me to take blood thinners... and if I bleed too much I could be in serious trouble.. It's why I also want to be extra careful about what I bring.

A bite from say, a garter snake isn't deep enough to draw too much blood. But say something like a massive python could probably do enough damage where I should be worried? (I don't know- my thought process was bigger skull, likelier bigger teeth/fangs?)

The other issue is how startled I become at the time of being bitten. A ball python I am not sure if they'd strike like the other one did. Which mind you it startled me enough I almost dropped it or threw it, and let me make it clear I say this not because I intentionally wanted to harm the snake.

The snake has no idea what's going on- so of course there's a chance it's going to bite. There's a big communication barrier.

I was thinking to maybe get a thick rubber glove so if it tried to bite it wouldn't get deep enough and it would help me move it out if needed.

I've seen this guy sleep with his ball python which I can't see myself doing as it would just make me nervous. (I move around when I sleep)

My point of keeping a snake is just to view it, and occasionally handle it. But I doubt I'd handle it just because I wanted to handle it. From keeping fish and stuff like that most of my life I grew to be the "Observe and dont touch" kind of owner.

[frankadank]

I have a couple dozen 2016 Dominican mountain boas available. Very docile and easy to handle regardless of age or size, worst they ever do is musk. They grow to about the same size as a rat snake, slender-bodied like a carpet python rather than heavy-bodied like a red tail or Dumeril's boa. They do need more humidity than a corn or king snake, so I use cypress mulch in their enclosures, but the temp requirements aren't very high. Definitely more active than a ball python, but not flighty when picked up.

jumping in to say i would love to see some pics on your dominicans.

[SerpentineDream]

It sounds like a blizzard corn is your snake. A regular blizzard with no other genes like stripe or Tessera should be affordable. They get a bit of yellow around the neck area as they age (most corns do) from the carotinoids in the fat of the mice they eat. Supposedly females tend to exhibit less of this. My male only shows a slight yellow area on his nose and along a small section of his neck. I actually find it quite pretty. It's a bright sunny yellow, not a dull dingy yellow. He's still 95% white.

[jjhill001]

What's the difference between a rat and a corn snake? Is there a list of color morphs for these? I actually like the blizzard corns, I just wanted to see other possible alternatives. I would like an active snake but then again I know there is no such thing. lol

Corn Snakes are technically rat snakes. You could get a normal Baird's Rat Snake it doesn't have to be a morph because they aren't from NJ so you don't need a morph. If you go down to the colubrid section of the forum I've got pics of my female and male. There aren't many Baird's Rat Snake morphs just a hypo/albino and a San Antonio Zoo Line (from Mexico) and an Eastern Range in Texas Locality. I keep the East Texas Variety.

I know you want active, my male hides a bit by my female is extraordinarily bold and sits out like an idiot all the time. She's very entertaining.

[jjhill001]

Would a vet know? I mean you have to take snakes to vets right? But yeah, if a cop came t my house they probably wouldnt know.

To be honest, I wanted a docile snake about the size or less than a corn snake because I have family that comes over and I dont want them to be freaked out if they saw a big snake either.

I am actually fine with snakes, just that one incident freaked me out...

To be honest I did something stupid once and I am not proud of I kind of tried to herp with a copperhead around here and I am lucky it didnt strike me. lol i didnt know it was a copperhead at the time, but I am always careful with any wild animal I cant 100% ID

Honestly, the intended purpose of the law is to keep people from collecting normal wild corn snakes from the State of New Jersey. There are several morphs that ARE naturally occurring. Like Okeetees, blood reds, Miami, sunkissed (isn't natural but the snake looks normal for the first part of its life)

This link has a list of cornsnake morphs. About 3-5 of them are normal wild type. There are tons more to choose from to be honest.

All About Corn Snakes (http://www.allaboutcornsnakes.com/corn_snakes.html)

I wouldn't be my life on a veterinarian knowing crap about morphs. There is always a chance to be honest but I doubt that if it wasn't a normal morph that they would even say anything. If you're close to the border you can go to a vet outside the state or if its that much of a worry for you just get a king snake or something like that.

[TRD]

I don't know of any blizzard milk snakes.

Well, if you would consider Lampropeltis as a genus and not go milksnake specific, then there are a few blizzard morphs around.

f.e. the normal cali king has a whole bunch of morphs and would fit his bill... Some examples of morphs here;

Selective bred morphs - Southern California Kingsnakes (http://southerncaliforniakingsnakes.weebly.com/selective-bred-morphs.html)

[Aaron_S]

Well, if you would consider Lampropeltis as a genus and not go milksnake specific, then there are a few blizzard morphs around.

f.e. the normal cali king has a whole bunch of morphs and would fit his bill... Some examples of morphs here;

Selective bred morphs - Southern California Kingsnakes (http://southerncaliforniakingsnakes.weebly.com/selective-bred-morphs.html)

Originally the lucy grey-bandeds popped into my head but I wanted to keep it strictly to Milksnakes. However you'd be more correct than myself.


As for white ball pythons. $200+ is generally the price range I see now for babies.

[PredatorPraetor]

Well, if you would consider Lampropeltis as a genus and not go milksnake specific, then there are a few blizzard morphs around.

f.e. the normal cali king has a whole bunch of morphs and would fit his bill... Some examples of morphs here;

Selective bred morphs - Southern California Kingsnakes (http://southerncaliforniakingsnakes.weebly.com/selective-bred-morphs.html)

I didn't see one like the blizzard. Though the twin stripe one looks like a garter snake sort of


Some of them I like, but there is no pure white one that stays white and doesn't yellow over age? (kind of reminds me of how certain plastics yellow over age). Still very pretty and would feel comfortable with those.

[PredatorPraetor]

It sounds like a blizzard corn is your snake. A regular blizzard with no other genes like stripe or Tessera should be affordable. They get a bit of yellow around the neck area as they age (most corns do) from the carotinoids in the fat of the mice they eat. Supposedly females tend to exhibit less of this. My male only shows a slight yellow area on his nose and along a small section of his neck. I actually find it quite pretty. It's a bright sunny yellow, not a dull dingy yellow. He's still 95% white.

Bah. I always wanted a purely white pet snake but I guess 95% is better than 50%

[PredatorPraetor]

Corn Snakes are technically rat snakes. You could get a normal Baird's Rat Snake it doesn't have to be a morph because they aren't from NJ so you don't need a morph. If you go down to the colubrid section of the forum I've got pics of my female and male. There aren't many Baird's Rat Snake morphs just a hypo/albino and a San Antonio Zoo Line (from Mexico) and an Eastern Range in Texas Locality. I keep the East Texas Variety.

I know you want active, my male hides a bit by my female is extraordinarily bold and sits out like an idiot all the time. She's very entertaining.

To be honest I like the idea of an active snake (you know as snakes go anyways) but, if I can't really much have that I'd at least like one that doesn't hide under a hide/cave/rock/wood/etc

I'd like that even if it's doing nothing I could still look at it. I mean it'd basically be a pet rock-- but it'd be a pretty pet rock.

That, and the snake can't be big enough to hurt my dog. Which is pretty small.

[PredatorPraetor]

Honestly, the intended purpose of the law is to keep people from collecting normal wild corn snakes from the State of New Jersey. There are several morphs that ARE naturally occurring. Like Okeetees, blood reds, Miami, sunkissed (isn't natural but the snake looks normal for the first part of its life)

This link has a list of cornsnake morphs. About 3-5 of them are normal wild type. There are tons more to choose from to be honest.

All About Corn Snakes (http://www.allaboutcornsnakes.com/corn_snakes.html)

I wouldn't be my life on a veterinarian knowing crap about morphs. There is always a chance to be honest but I doubt that if it wasn't a normal morph that they would even say anything. If you're close to the border you can go to a vet outside the state or if its that much of a worry for you just get a king snake or something like that.


Yeah I just didn't wanna be one of those idiots on the news who goes and owns like a crocodile/alligator/giant potentially dangerous animal in the suburbs(or at all). It doesn't have to be dangerous, what I mean is, if it's going to attract unwanted attention by some chance I'd rather not go for it. But then again, if it's a corn snake I doubt anyone would even know if it's a corn snake or a rat snake. They maybe essentially the same but to them it could be a different species(sub species) or I wasnt the wiser or something... just dont want to deal with cops. NJ cops aren't particularly the most pleasant folk to deal with(no offense to any police officer out there)... from the kind of behavior I witness to regular law abiding citizens I'd rather not be giving them a reason to.

Anywho I am up north, so the border is a bit ways off.

[PredatorPraetor]

Man, I keep looking this stuff up and just by that link provided to me... makes me wonder are you people geneticists? You guys(well breeders) in general tend to know a ton of stuff about genetics....

I am pretty sure there's a science to it. Makes me wonder with all these colors and morphs(Rather impressive assortment I might add).. Has anyone made a snake that's black colored (like a jet black) with bright red eyes? I know it sounds silly but that would be some sick stuff right now.

[jjhill001]

Another thought, if you get a blizzard it's technically an albino so that would make it technically legal.

[SerpentineDream]

Bah. I always wanted a purely white pet snake but I guess 95% is better than 50%

If you like this guy (he's mine but the photo was taken by his breeder, Don Soderburg of South Mountain Reptiles) then you'll like Blizzards. I expect he'll have some hatching out in the next month or so. You could contact him and find out. You could also ask him if he's observed that females tend to show less yellow than males. https://cornsnake.net/index.php?lang=en

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r669/Serpentine_Dream/Mobile%20Uploads/9314_zpsuvyvhdmt.jpeg (http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/Serpentine_Dream/media/Mobile%20Uploads/9314_zpsuvyvhdmt.jpeg.html)

As for red eyes, that is a trait associated with amelanistic or albino snakes. Thus I doubt you'll ever see a black snake with red eyes.

[PredatorPraetor]

Another thought, if you get a blizzard it's technically an albino so that would make it technically legal.
Blizzard corns are already perfectly legal and allowed(it was in the list)

[PredatorPraetor]

If you like this guy (he's mine but the photo was taken by his breeder, Don Soderburg of South Mountain Reptiles) then you'll like Blizzards. I expect he'll have some hatching out in the next month or so. You could contact him and find out. You could also ask him if he's observed that females tend to show less yellow than males. https://cornsnake.net/index.php?lang=en

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r669/Serpentine_Dream/Mobile%20Uploads/9314_zpsuvyvhdmt.jpeg (http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/Serpentine_Dream/media/Mobile%20Uploads/9314_zpsuvyvhdmt.jpeg.html)

As for red eyes, that is a trait associated with amelanistic or albino snakes. Thus I doubt you'll ever see a black snake with red eyes.

Why do they yellow over times? Is there a way to prevent it?

Also, so it's impossible for there to be a snake of say a corn/rat, kingsnake or even ball python that is jet black (or tar black) with red eyes?

Weird, dumb question.. I know that there are animals that glow in the dark- and there are things like "Glofish" is there such a thing as a glowing snake? Not that I'd want one(would be pretty annoying to sleep near it) but it makes me curious.

What are the strangest snakes around? Even if they're not kept as pets- just rather curious about strangeness in nature.

[Tiny Boidae]

Glofish were invented as environmental indicators if memory serves me. Created by scientists before they were thrown into the market. They were able to do this because there are many examples of fish with bioluminescence in nature, and so they were able to create genetically modified zebra fish with this ability. There are no glowing snakes in nature however, and with all of the snake morphs in the market these days there really doesn't need to be one.

If you want to see weird snakes, then look around at some colubrids. Or just aquatic animals like the mud snake or the elephant trunk snake (the latter of which I find oddly unnerving). Although there are plenty out there with atypical traits and behaviors.

[PredatorPraetor]

Glofish were invented as environmental indicators if memory serves me. Created by scientists before they were thrown into the market. They were able to do this because there are many examples of fish with bioluminescence in nature, and so they were able to create genetically modified zebra fish with this ability. There are no glowing snakes in nature however, and with all of the snake morphs in the market these days there really doesn't need to be one.

If you want to see weird snakes, then look around at some colubrids. Or just aquatic animals like the mud snake or the elephant trunk snake (the latter of which I find oddly unnerving). Although there are plenty out there with atypical traits and behaviors.
Omg I like the elephant one! It's cute as the dickens but they get really massive don't they? Be too big to own. Wish they had other purely aquatic snakes like that- but aren't that big.

[REM955]

The elephant trunk snake is not a beginner. Just to make that clear. Was looking for care out of curiosity and they don't seem to thrive well in captivity. Not trying to be abrasive

I will echo the ball python by suggesting the black eyed leucestic BP. Pretty sure someone mentioned that or some variant. A quick search puts a price about $450 as a minimum (morph market).

I don't know how others feel about adding bull snakes as a possibility (I have no experience of my own), but I know Aaron had a white sided one at one point. Here's a link to a breeder: White-Sided Bull Snake (http://www.cherryvillereptiles.com/bull/white.html)
And an "blizzard" bull on FaunaClassifieds (Inactive): Blizzard Bull snake (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559676)
The only complaint I think you might have is size.
They are the only other idea I can think of that match the color preference.

[RAD House]

Why do they yellow over times? Is there a way to prevent it?

Also, so it's impossible for there to be a snake of say a corn/rat, kingsnake or even ball python that is jet black (or tar black) with red eyes?

Weird, dumb question.. I know that there are animals that glow in the dark- and there are things like "Glofish" is there such a thing as a glowing snake? Not that I'd want one(would be pretty annoying to sleep near it) but it makes me curious.

What are the strangest snakes around? Even if they're not kept as pets- just rather curious about strangeness in nature.

There are some truly unique snakes out there. A few that come to mind are bush vipers, spider tailed horned vipers, thread snakes, dragon snakes, file snakes, and blue coral snakes. None of these I suggest keeping, but some great eye candy. If you are looking for something unique in the hobby you should check out rhino rat snakes.

[Tiny Boidae]

The elephant trunk snake is not a beginner. Just to make that clear. Was looking for care out of curiosity and they don't seem to thrive well in captivity. Not trying to be abrasive.

You're fine. I should have been more clear that I wasn't recommending any of those species at all. I think a lot of what should be considered for the op has already been mentioned.

[SerpentineDream]

No, you can't prevent the yellowing around the head and neck of corn snakes. It happens over time due to carotinoids in the fat of the mice they eat. I suppose you could simply not feed them, but that presents problems of a different sort, yes? ;) Joking aside, it's minimal. And I think it's pretty. It makes Star more unique and interesting than a 100% white snake. You might minimize it by choosing a female.

If you really have your heart set on a solid white snake with black eyes, as I said that's a black eyed leucistic ball python. You'll pay a premium and you're not crazy about ball pythons.

There are lots and lots of unique colubrids. Just make sure you thoroughly research any you consider because many are not beginner snakes. Since you want something moderately sized that won't eat your face or die if you make the slightest mistake that narrows the field.

I might recommend black milk snakes as they are super cool. They start out banded like most other milk snakes but have tiny black dots on them. As they grow the dots spread out until the snake is transformed to a solid iridescent black. They come from the mountain cloud forests of Costa Rica and Panama so they take cool temperatures. They are very mellow and gentle but... they do get big. They are solid, hefty snakes and can get over 7 feet in some cases though most stay around 6. They are not likely to bite as they are very laid back (though watch yourself at feeding time) but they could do damage if they did. They are powerful animals. Something to consider.

[PredatorPraetor]

The elephant trunk snake is not a beginner. Just to make that clear. Was looking for care out of curiosity and they don't seem to thrive well in captivity. Not trying to be abrasive

I will echo the ball python by suggesting the black eyed leucestic BP. Pretty sure someone mentioned that or some variant. A quick search puts a price about $450 as a minimum (morph market).

I don't know how others feel about adding bull snakes as a possibility (I have no experience of my own), but I know Aaron had a white sided one at one point. Here's a link to a breeder: White-Sided Bull Snake (http://www.cherryvillereptiles.com/bull/white.html)
And an "blizzard" bull on FaunaClassifieds (Inactive): Blizzard Bull snake (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559676)
The only complaint I think you might have is size.
They are the only other idea I can think of that match the color preference.
Wouldn't that BP yellow over time? I am purposely taking my time on all of this because I am sure I only want 1 snake (For now) and I wanted to get the best one I can get (without breaking bank). 450 is a bit high - mostly since i dont know breeders and I don't know whose going to basically screw me over with sick unhealthy animals.

Been on fauna classifieds and see that a lot of people get screwed over(being vague but you get the drift-- it's not a set assured thing).

[PredatorPraetor]

You're fine. I should have been more clear that I wasn't recommending any of those species at all. I think a lot of what should be considered for the op has already been mentioned.
Oh I didn't consider it to be a pet anyways-- 9 foot snake is too much for me. Even if it's docile. Just meant would wish they came in a smaller variety that was easier to care for.

[PredatorPraetor]

No, you can't prevent the yellowing around the head and neck of corn snakes. It happens over time due to carotinoids in the fat of the mice they eat. I suppose you could simply not feed them, but that presents problems of a different sort, yes? ;) Joking aside, it's minimal. And I think it's pretty. It makes Star more unique and interesting than a 100% white snake. You might minimize it by choosing a female.

If you really have your heart set on a solid white snake with black eyes, as I said that's a black eyed leucistic ball python. You'll pay a premium and you're not crazy about ball pythons.

There are lots and lots of unique colubrids. Just make sure you thoroughly research any you consider because many are not beginner snakes. Since you want something moderately sized that won't eat your face or die if you make the slightest mistake that narrows the field.

I might recommend black milk snakes as they are super cool. They start out banded like most other milk snakes but have tiny black dots on them. As they grow the dots spread out until the snake is transformed to a solid iridescent black. They come from the mountain cloud forests of Costa Rica and Panama so they take cool temperatures. They are very mellow and gentle but... they do get big. They are solid, hefty snakes and can get over 7 feet in some cases though most stay around 6. They are not likely to bite as they are very laid back (though watch yourself at feeding time) but they could do damage if they did. They are powerful animals. Something to consider.
The thing about the carotonoids-- I now recall someone mentioning it. I apologize for repeat question had a busy day.

Yeah I don't want a snake that can bite my nose off(to make a milder joke) and I'd prefer it to be very resilient if possible. I don't mean that I'd skimp in care. I feel as if that might be misunderstood, but because I am a newbie and my location isn't exactly the same constant temps year round... I'd like a snake that if it gets a little cold it won't die (I don't mean freezing cold, but if the temp is supposed to be for example 80degrees on the hot side and 75 degrees on the cool side then if it comes a day that it gets unusually cold and forwhatever reason it gets some degrees lower than it should be then it wont just die right there).

Some animals like for example even little finches-- a draft can apparently kill them. I liked the idea of a snake because there's not much requirements to the keeping of a snake (no offense meant) as compared to something like diamond back terrapin, salt water aquariums(think corals, frags, etc)...

I was hoping it'd be more "resistant" to simple mistakes because while I will always try to be careful, the idea that an animal will die because it's a few degrees cooler is a bit off putting, or that the animal will die if I pick it up(being extreme about it but you get the point)... Like what I am trying to say is... I'd prefer to avoid "extreme fragility".. I would think people might misunderstand what I am saying for abuse and all but that's not what I meant. To make a further point- if you've ever heard of a cow fish(salt water) they're fish that should be kept solo... because they are literary ticking time bombs(or toxin bombs?).. if there is even a little bit of stress they can end up essentially wiping out the tank(themselves included) with the toxins they release.

As for that black milk snake. Looks rather cool and a bit like that snake that they have in puerto rico (a big black snake-- a coloubrid-- I was too young to know what it was).

[PredatorPraetor]

There are some truly unique snakes out there. A few that come to mind are bush vipers, spider tailed horned vipers, thread snakes, dragon snakes, file snakes, and blue coral snakes. None of these I suggest keeping, but some great eye candy. If you are looking for something unique in the hobby you should check out rhino rat snakes.
Nice. Love the rhino snake, beautiful color.

[akane]

We were discussing on another forum the skull shape of a few snakes starting with corns. They have relatively limited jaws for muscle space and relatively limited teeth so bites even from bigger adults are rarely much.

Personally though I'd have to say if you don't take finding an individual with specific handling and known personality in mind the rosy boa are probably the "safest" without being small and fast. Oddly it is the only snake that has fully bit me but it was a very starved and kept cold who knows how long rosy that I just gotten and warmed up. She was grabbing anything that might be food that only lasted a short time. She left a few shallow breaks in the skin that for me stopped bleeding in seconds even after she spent awhile twisting her jaws around on my finger trying to see if it removed for food. They have small, shallow heads and often prefer prey smaller than their body thickness would normally have you feed on other snakes. No longer starving mine says she only feels like hopper mice now. They are very hard to get bite otherwise. Even not handled much. Majority enjoy being out or just quickly settle into not caring if there is nothing scary and unfamiliar gong on. I don't know about most sand boas but I have seen people talk about their sand boas they haul around on their arm or have on their lap or desk all the time without signs they dislike it. Not that either species gives many signs since they rarely give any threat, make minimal attempts to get away since they are so slow, and I haven't heard of them musking. Maybe if you accidentally injured one or scared it equally as badly and suddenly. Overall bites are limited to accidents often while feeding and attempts to get away are more likely to be recoiling backward where it's easy to pull in their extended body unless they see something close by since they don't continue forward fast enough to outrun anything very far.

A well handled juvenile or already adult of the species commonly mentioned like corn, king, rat, and milk are quite unlikely to bite and like I said are limited in damage potential even if they are going to be a bit bigger and longer teeth than a rosy or sand boa generally has. Smaller snakes can be tamed but many remain quite jittery if you don't consistently put in time so while good to watch and unlikely to bite (some even can't) handling is often difficult if you want occasional without extra effort taming and always with increased risk they'll bolt. Not many small snakes are as calm as ones like rosy and sand boas because most will use speed to escape lacking other defenses. Rosy boas are one of the slowest snakes in the world. Of course many snakes with handling are at worst a bunch of bluff. I've got bull snakes and while I don't generally go ahead and grab one in full strike position (especially the new 6 1/2' one) they still often don't actually bite or hold back on it. I've been glanced as one meant to go on past me and I've been nose banged which will they will do as a more direct threat. Once you have their main body loop lifted up they usually just give up. Same for related species. However, that doesn't mean they don't have hardware so if an accident is a health risk any species with bigger teeth or potential jaw strength and resulting damage is still not the best idea.

[SerpentineDream]

I didn't get that you were looking for a snake that you could neglect, just something easy and forgiving for a first-time owner. There *are* a lot of snakes that are aggressive and will gladly eat your face (you can cross coachwhips off your list) and those that require extremely advanced care (think green tree pythons). Some are hard to keep alive in captivity at all. Some such as indigo snakes get huge. I was being tongue-in-cheek but it really *is* easy to get captivated by a beautiful and unique species and then find out you're in over your head. Appearance isn't everything. You want a pet that you can actually enjoy. I'd love a blue coral snake for looks alone but don't much fancy the venom.

Truly, your first instinct was right. Corn snakes are so popular for a reason. They are the air ferns of the snake world and great beginner snakes. They're also interesting enough to keep you hooked (well, me at least... I'm about to have 11 of them). They are forgiving of minor mistakes and known for being gentle. If you do get bitten, it's a pinprick not a chunk. Don Soderburg is a trustworthy source and knows more about snakes than I probably will if I live to be 100.

Black milks are incredible if you aren't intimidated by the large size and enthusiastic feeding response. They are much more likely to die from being overheated than underheated. I think you mentioned having a bleeding problem. An adult is very unlikely to tag you unless it's a feeding mistake. Wear gloves and use long tongs at feeding time. Wash your hands before handling, use a hook to remove the snake from its cage and don't handle near meal time and you should be fine. *But* if it did bite you it would be no mere pinprick. For that reason if I was in your shoes I'd stick with a corn. But if you're interested you can PM me and I can give you the contact info of someone who has a very few male black milk hatchlings. Black milks are super hard to find. It took me 2 years to finally get my hands on a breeding pair.

[PredatorPraetor]

We were discussing on another forum the skull shape of a few snakes starting with corns. They have relatively limited jaws for muscle space and relatively limited teeth so bites even from bigger adults are rarely much.

Personally though I'd have to say if you don't take finding an individual with specific handling and known personality in mind the rosy boa are probably the "safest" without being small and fast. Oddly it is the only snake that has fully bit me but it was a very starved and kept cold who knows how long rosy that I just gotten and warmed up. She was grabbing anything that might be food that only lasted a short time. She left a few shallow breaks in the skin that for me stopped bleeding in seconds even after she spent awhile twisting her jaws around on my finger trying to see if it removed for food. They have small, shallow heads and often prefer prey smaller than their body thickness would normally have you feed on other snakes. No longer starving mine says she only feels like hopper mice now. They are very hard to get bite otherwise. Even not handled much. Majority enjoy being out or just quickly settle into not caring if there is nothing scary and unfamiliar gong on. I don't know about most sand boas but I have seen people talk about their sand boas they haul around on their arm or have on their lap or desk all the time without signs they dislike it. Not that either species gives many signs since they rarely give any threat, make minimal attempts to get away since they are so slow, and I haven't heard of them musking. Maybe if you accidentally injured one or scared it equally as badly and suddenly. Overall bites are limited to accidents often while feeding and attempts to get away are more likely to be recoiling backward where it's easy to pull in their extended body unless they see something close by since they don't continue forward fast enough to outrun anything very far.

A well handled juvenile or already adult of the species commonly mentioned like corn, king, rat, and milk are quite unlikely to bite and like I said are limited in damage potential even if they are going to be a bit bigger and longer teeth than a rosy or sand boa generally has. Smaller snakes can be tamed but many remain quite jittery if you don't consistently put in time so while good to watch and unlikely to bite (some even can't) handling is often difficult if you want occasional without extra effort taming and always with increased risk they'll bolt. Not many small snakes are as calm as ones like rosy and sand boas because most will use speed to escape lacking other defenses. Rosy boas are one of the slowest snakes in the world. Of course many snakes with handling are at worst a bunch of bluff. I've got bull snakes and while I don't generally go ahead and grab one in full strike position (especially the new 6 1/2' one) they still often don't actually bite or hold back on it. I've been glanced as one meant to go on past me and I've been nose banged which will they will do as a more direct threat. Once you have their main body loop lifted up they usually just give up. Same for related species. However, that doesn't mean they don't have hardware so if an accident is a health risk any species with bigger teeth or potential jaw strength and resulting damage is still not the best idea.


Hm I actually like Rosy boas too. Apparently they also have a white colored one. I wonder if there's like a guide on all the commonly kept snake species and the somewhat uncommons along with each color morph they come in(pictures would be nice)..

[PredatorPraetor]

I didn't get that you were looking for a snake that you could neglect, just something easy and forgiving for a first-time owner. There *are* a lot of snakes that are aggressive and will gladly eat your face (you can cross coachwhips off your list) and those that require extremely advanced care (think green tree pythons). Some are hard to keep alive in captivity at all. Some such as indigo snakes get huge. I was being tongue-in-cheek but it really *is* easy to get captivated by a beautiful and unique species and then find out you're in over your head. Appearance isn't everything. You want a pet that you can actually enjoy. I'd love a blue coral snake for looks alone but don't much fancy the venom.

Truly, your first instinct was right. Corn snakes are so popular for a reason. They are the air ferns of the snake world and great beginner snakes. They're also interesting enough to keep you hooked (well, me at least... I'm about to have 11 of them). They are forgiving of minor mistakes and known for being gentle. If you do get bitten, it's a pinprick not a chunk. Don Soderburg is a trustworthy source and knows more about snakes than I probably will if I live to be 100.

Black milks are incredible if you aren't intimidated by the large size and enthusiastic feeding response. They are much more likely to die from being overheated than underheated. I think you mentioned having a bleeding problem. An adult is very unlikely to tag you unless it's a feeding mistake. Wear gloves and use long tongs at feeding time. Wash your hands before handling, use a hook to remove the snake from its cage and don't handle near meal time and you should be fine. *But* if it did bite you it would be no mere pinprick. For that reason if I was in your shoes I'd stick with a corn. But if you're interested you can PM me and I can give you the contact info of someone who has a very few male black milk hatchlings. Black milks are super hard to find. It took me 2 years to finally get my hands on a breeding pair.I so far only like a few of the corns color pattern. Wish they'd come in more colors. For a beginner snake it would entice people more if such where the case. Imagine a corn snake with really bright blues like that blue coral snake you mentioned?

Also for the black milk snake sounds rather tempting yet highly expensive (rarity = expensive as heck?)

They look like these thick black snakes found in puerto rico. (still can't find the I.D. on that puerto rican black snake though).

Yeah I have to be extra careful about bites. It's not like I will die-- just be really bad for me though... I need to be extra careful.

[PredatorPraetor]

Also, what do you guys use for substrate? I was hoping for something rather clean, non-smelling... I heard of people who keep the tanks bare with just newspaper but not sure if that's a fire hazard.. and some of you mentioned an undertank heater but if there's no layered substrate in between the snake, the glass and the heater then won't the snake get burns?

I wanted something that wouldn't be hard to clean and would be clean and keep smells at bay and good for beginners.

Something that would be good for a rosy boa, a corn snake or something like that..

We have carpet floors so we want to keep it clean so it has to be that if by accidentally some of it falls on the ground and it wont mess up the carpet... like say dirt...

[SerpentineDream]

Corn snake morphs. Just tick the amelanistic box since you need red-eyed corns and it'll show you a bunch. Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Ians Vivarium (http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/)

Ball python morphs. Sooooo many morphs. World of Ball Pythons (http://worldofballpythons.com)

As for expensive, surprisingly no. Black milks are not, for as hard to find as they are. $200 to $250 is pretty standard (females usually toward the higher end) plus shipping.

I use aspen snake bedding from Zoo Med. Easy to find, absorbent, controls odors well and they can burrow in it. For ball pythons I use cypress snake bedding because they like more humidity.

[Herpin' Man]

I don't think anybody has mentioned Antaresia- the Spotted, Children's, and Stimson's pythons. There aren't many morphs available in the US, but they are quite variable regardless. They are small, easy to keep, easy to handle. Babies can be sassy, but adults seldom bite. They are somewhat active, but definitely not "squirmy".

[PredatorPraetor]

Corn snake morphs. Just tick the amelanistic box since you need red-eyed corns and it'll show you a bunch. Guide to Cornsnake Morphs - Ians Vivarium (http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/)

Ball python morphs. Sooooo many morphs. World of Ball Pythons (http://worldofballpythons.com)

As for expensive, surprisingly no. Black milks are not, for as hard to find as they are. $200 to $250 is pretty standard (females usually toward the higher end) plus shipping.

I use aspen snake bedding from Zoo Med. Easy to find, absorbent, controls odors well and they can burrow in it. For ball pythons I use cypress snake bedding because they like more humidity.

Thank you. I appreciate the info. I see a lot of morphs in there. Nice.