Advice for Day and Night Bulbs

[Dmurphy95]

Hello everyone! I would like imput on a slight decision problem I am having.

Once Qizil, my/My Dad's Red Tailed Boa get's his new cage and is moved into said new abode I will be fitting his old cage for my own little Rosy Boa I will be getting.

I do understand that for the most part it does not seem like they really need a basking light and are more attuned to UTH's, but I am mainly planning on getting a day and light bulb to keep a more "normal" day and night cycle for my little baby.

I am not sure if I should really go for the day/night cycle bulbs, or if I should instead stick with a UTH and instead go for a simple UBV Flourescent Bulb fixture for viewing purposes. Any imput?

And for that matter, what types of bulbs/wattage should I aim for if I am to get the day/night cycle bulbs? Most of the heating will come from the UTH if I am correct.

[dannybgoode]

A proper reptile uv bulb in the day yes (like you would use for a lizard). t8 10% would be fine for a rosy boa and it would benefit very much from this.

No light at night.

I would swap the uth for a ceramic heat bulb or che as they're known and then that can stay on 24/7.

[Dmurphy95]

Thank you for the help! Though excuse the silly question, but: What does the "t8 10%" mean exactly? I am not very well-versed in this. I am learning more and more about these things as I go, and don't know all the technicalities yet.

Would it be better not to use the UTH because they like to burrow, and it could get too hot..? Hence using the heat bulb instead? I simply want to make sure I am doing the best I can for my Rosy, so excuse all the questions. X'D

[TRD]

Not aware Rosy would need UVB...?

[Dmurphy95]

I've researched a lot on the subject, since it's the biggest "problem" I really seem to be having, but I never found anything that really went into specifics. Usually I saw they would need UTHs but I am not so sure.

I am quite sure they do, but again I am not sure if I should go for the Flourescent Bulb fictures or a day-and-night cyle.
I just don't want to overdo the heating of the tank.

[dannybgoode]

Not aware Rosy would need UVB...?

*All* snakes benefit hugely from uv. I won't keep any snake without it now. Even my C paulsoni in her foot cube Viv has a nano uv set up and she spends days at a time under it.

Even snakes like my boa imperator-supposedly nocturnal-spends a few hours a day basking under it whereas she just hid under normal lighting.

Their colour improves, they are more active and there's plenty of research to show they are healthier too with a stronger immune system etc.

Of course I still provide plenty of hiding places (in fact I provide more hiding / shaded places than before) but then the snake is free to choose and will regulate its uv exposure much like they thermoregulate their temperature.

[TRD]

Well... hugely may be a bit overstated since people have been keeping snakes without UV for decades or more, reaching good age and under good health, apparently without adverse effects... I would be interested in any scientific document describing the benefits of providing UV while the animal itself doesn't require it for metabolic processes. I know only of adding light UV to plant lighting which makes the leaves more appealing green, but doesn't do anything else for the plant. Human skin also tans due to UV. Obviously it would also cause a reaction to reptile skin since too much UVB is harmful and needs to be blocked (ie- pigment increases). I'm more interested in the benefits to the immune system of the reptile, or in this case, a snake.

Personally I provide full spectrum light, around 6500 K, and extends somewhat in the UVA range. But I don't provide any UVB to my snakes.

[dannybgoode]

Well... hugely may be a bit overstated since people have been keeping snakes without UV for decades or more, reaching good age and under good health, apparently without adverse effects... I would be interested in any scientific document describing the benefits of providing UV while the animal itself doesn't require it for metabolic processes. I know only of adding light UV to plant lighting which makes the leaves more appealing green, but doesn't do anything else for the plant. Human skin also tans due to UV. Obviously it would also cause a reaction to reptile skin since too much UVB is harmful and needs to be blocked (ie- pigment increases). I'm more interested in the benefits to the immune system of the reptile, or in this case, a snake.

Personally I provide full spectrum light, around 6500 K, and extends somewhat in the UVA range. But I don't provide any UVB to my snakes.

Absolutely essential no, hugely beneficial yes. If you are on facebook I can direct you to a group where there are a whole range of scientific (as in proper peer reviewed science) papers researching the matter.

I have linked to some on here and also if you go to the UV Lighting for Reptiles: How much UVB do reptiles need? (http://www.uvguide.co.uk/whatreptilesneed.htm) site and have a mooch around there are a ton of papers on there as well.

Snakes do use it to metabolise D3 much like we do. Uv is essential for humans too and indeed most terrestrial animals.

As to skin damage - the amount produced by reptile lighting is way way below what they'd be exposed to in the wild and of absolutely no concern.

[TRD]

That page you linked I happen to know... and some articles that UVB radiation promotes vitamin D3 production in snakes I know too. However there's a ton of info available that while they do react (so to say) to UVB, it's a hard time to prove there's an actual significant benefit for it. Snakes seem to get all they need through their diet, at least in captivity. Stable rodent diet... which contains all if not most of the essentials if fresh enough and from a good vendor.

That's where my main question originates from -- would it add anything to the snake's health, even though all it requires is already provided?

I'm pretty interested in the subject, and have long been contemplating it. I have however not found one single source that really pointed out any benefits to using UVB with snakes besides articles that describe it helps with metabolizing D3 and A. Also all UVB lights provide UVA which helps the vision. Now UVA I provide anyway. UVB if required would mean quite a bit of work since you can't place those lights outside the terra as UVB is blocked by glass 95-100%. Drilling extra holes and all into the metal meshes I don't like, and CFL UVB lights are bad to reptile eyes (too bright)... so it would need to be some T5HO or similar and that's a real pain to put inside of glass terra not made to support it.

[dannybgoode]

That page you linked I happen to know... and some articles that UVB radiation promotes vitamin D3 production in snakes I know too. However there's a ton of info available that while they do react (so to say) to UVB, it's a hard time to prove there's an actual significant benefit for it. Snakes seem to get all they need through their diet, at least in captivity. Stable rodent diet... which contains all if not most of the essentials if fresh enough and from a good vendor.

That's where my main question originates from -- would it add anything to the snake's health, even though all it requires is already provided?

I'm pretty interested in the subject, and have long been contemplating it. I have however not found one single source that really pointed out any benefits to using UVB with snakes besides articles that describe it helps with metabolizing D3 and A. Also all UVB lights provide UVA which helps the vision. Now UVA I provide anyway. UVB if required would mean quite a bit of work since you can't place those lights outside the terra as UVB is blocked by glass 95-100%. Drilling extra holes and all into the metal meshes I don't like, and CFL UVB lights are bad to reptile eyes (too bright)... so it would need to be some T5HO or similar and that's a real pain to put inside of glass terra not made to support it.

I'll dig some papers out. For wooden vivs I put the tubes in the viv. For glass with mesh lids I put a higher powered tube outside the viv. Arcadia for example specifically rate their tubes through mesh.

Bear in mind D3 is very important and it is only properly metabolised through the absorbtion of uvb.

Further anecdotally my snakes all actively bask under uv when they generally hid when just provided with normal lighting which suggests they are seeking it out. They are more active and display much more vibrant colours.

With regards to cfl and eyesight. An early experiment did indeed render all the snakes blind however later testing showed that the bulbs used emitted uvc which is what caused the blindness. Fran makes specific reference to this on the site I linked to. These bulbs are no longer manufactured.

In fact it is this old paper that stopped people using uv for snakes for a long time but then scientists considered the fact that many snake species are found basking in sunlight without going blind so there must be an underlying cause in the tests.

Its also the reason that I only use Arcadia bulbs as under testing they produce the spectrum they claim to whereas repti glo get close to emitting more dangerous wavelengths.

I agree to an extent with you that it is still a contentious issue however I think the science is clear it is beneficial (whilst not essential). I factor in the cost of uv in all my vivs now and given that I'll be up to 10 snakes soon and some of those will need larger set ups in the futures it is a considerable expense but I consider it to as important to a stat and proper heating to ensure the well being of my animals.

Even some reptile stores in the UK now fit uv to their store vivs and shops wouldn't go to the expense of this if there were no benefit.

[dannybgoode]

I should add as well that the provision of uv is in part due to my keeping philosophy - snakes at least have the option of uvb exposure in the wild and I therefore look to provide that option in captivity.

As I mentioned above it is an option all my snakes take me up on.

[TRD]

I don't have mesh lids, my tops are glass with a metal mesh that would block a lot of the UV light out. I have planted bio-active arid vivariums for my kingsnakes, basically maintenance free besides watering, and my snakes seem to bask till their heart's content without issues. I even simulate sunrise/sunset events and up till recently I also moved the basking spot during sunrise and sunset to a different place on the vivarium as I found it interesting to see how they bask in a different spot during morning and evening (nice to see them thermoregulating)... I expanded my vivs recently because adding few more snakes so I would need to order a few more timers with ramp up/down programming. I provide them holes to go underground/under rocks just like they would in the wild and simulate the environment as good as possible in a vivarium for a snake that has no issues to trash around from time to time, though I do use some plants that they would never see in the wild simply because, well, I like those plants and they do great in arid terrariums (and can handle a kingsnake's torture).

I'm all for natural setups... I'm one of those guys that despite having a whole bunch of animals (reaching 30, not all reptiles though) I would never go into putting stuff away in rack systems just because its convenient.

[dannybgoode]

Your set ups sound awesome. I particularly like simulating the movement of the sun through the day. Would love to see pictures.

Also I wasn't questioning your husbandry at all. However in the wild when basking a snake will be receiving uvb and I like to provide this also. My vivs are mainly wooden ones so I mount the tube inside on the ceiling. Given the heat they kick out I mount them at the warm end otherwise there's a danger of the temperature gradient being disturbed.

I've been flat out with work and home stuff but will post some papers on the subject shortly.

[akane]

A t8 is the tube size of a long fluorescent fixture. It's the most standard size. Sometimes a larger tube is used in long fixtures of 4+ ft and it makes little difference. A t5 tends to actually be a higher output slightly different style used for more efficient lighting in a smaller size. That's basic straight tubes. The percent is a measure of uv. In a long tube 10 is fairly standard for desert application where the reptile would experience a lot of unfiltered light. There are also commonly 5 uv rated bulbs. There are also screw in narrower beam uv basking bulbs instead that are usually also used as hot spots more for lizards instead of the standard incandescent bulbs for some fixtures that provide heat. You should check the distance suggestions listed for a uv bulb. Rosy tanks tend to be fairly low so you will have a fairly strong effect of light, heat, or uv from any bulb. Uv is not necessary but you can use it as your viewing bulb. I haven't looked up snake benefits but they would be exposed in the wild normally.

I just use an undercabinet lighting fixture cause they are dirt cheap and work for small purposes with daylight bulb from the hardware store so usually your standard t8 tube to maintain day and night for my rosy boas and an infrared heat bulb at all times about 40w on one end. They tend not to be very shy or light sensitive but of course provide hides and optional shelter.

[Dmurphy95]

This whole conversation got a lot more in-depth than I was expecting, but the stuff I learned from reading your posts was quite insightful and interesting honestly!

Thank you all for your imput!
I am thinking of getting a screw-in UV bulb as the day bulb after reading everything through, as I do want to give them as "natural" a feel as possible. I am getting a stand for it as well so it isn't sitting too close to the enclosure and slamming own with too much exposure. Even if they are burrowers, I just want to go with an air of caution as either way UV bulbs are pretty gnarly from what I've read. XD

Also, anake thank you for explaining what those were! I am still learning all the terms and there's so many it is quite confusing. So thanks a bunch for the explanation!

[dannybgoode]

Uv bulbs aren't gnarly! And trust me-what a reptile bulb can put out is a fraction of what they'd be exposed to in the wild. The chances of overdoing it are slim in less you went mad with multiple bulbs etc.

Use a quality brand like Zoo-Med though. Don't use Repti-Glo - not nearly as good and don't last as long. Spectral output is more questionable too.

Just make sure there's plenty of shade and hidey places as well as a basking spot and the snake will be fine. I generally put the uv where the heat is also so it basks in the uv and heat together.

[Dmurphy95]

All right, thank you! They just always seem a lot stronger than the other bulbs that are commonly used, and I am simply being a cautious snake mom. XD

I will definitely do that though-- Zoo-Med has usually always had amazing reviews on like, all their products, so I certainly trust them!
And do not worry I am supplying my little Rosy with plenty of hides and other places where they can burrow under to keep them feeling safe and content.

[akane]

There has been problems of using uv with lizards and the increasing fully supplemented commercial diets designed around many not using uv but snakes are not supplemented with vitamin d since it's difficult and not required so unless you go beyond normal lighting methods you will reach an uncomfortable temp or brightness they avoid first.

[Dmurphy95]

I will be using a timer-based socket for the double-lamp I am getting to help mirror a normal day and night cycle for them, but if that's the case should I not use a UV..?

Again I will be using a stand and a double-lamp fixture with a timer controlled socket, but I am getting the lowest wattage for the UV screw-in bulb.

[dannybgoode]

No reason not to use uv on a timer - I do on all my vivs. A rosy boa would be exposed to a high tv index in the wild so no need to hold back with wattage or uv %.

[Dmurphy95]

All right, thank you for the imput!

At this point I have decided to use the timer-based double setup simply to allow a more normal sleeping pattern (of sorts) but also so I can still view the little guy without constantly having that brighter daylight bulb on all the time. X3

-- ALSO that being said, I am very excited! I finally ordered my little Rosy Boa TODAY! It's a little boy. He'll be coming in a few weeks so I still have plenty of time to set up things and get Qizil to his new cage, but I am very excited.

Again, thank you all for the imput, and I will defintitely show pictures when the little man gets here~ !

[dannybgoode]

All right, thank you for the imput!

At this point I have decided to use the timer-based double setup simply to allow a more normal sleeping pattern (of sorts) but also so I can still view the little guy without constantly having that brighter daylight bulb on all the time. X3

-- ALSO that being said, I am very excited! I finally ordered my little Rosy Boa TODAY! It's a little boy. He'll be coming in a few weeks so I still have plenty of time to set up things and get Qizil to his new cage, but I am very excited.

Again, thank you all for the imput, and I will defintitely show pictures when the little man gets here~ !

No light at night right? I know it's tempting to be able to view 24/7 but they need dark at night. Some people with use red lamps or 'moonlight' blue lamps but imo even these are questionable (note natural moonlight is not blue!).

Use a ceramic heater in one of the sockets for 24/7 heat and then full spectrum inc uv bulb for day time light-thats what I'd do.

If you absolutely must view at night then red heat lamp in one socket and the uv bulb in the I get for day time light.

[dannybgoode]

Oh and do post pics, lots of pics...

[Dmurphy95]

That is what I'm planning, yea. I did get a ret bulb simply because humidity is hard to hold in an all glass tank, and especially with the ambient temps we have where we live. The fogger I am getting will hopefully help with that, but still. I am just overly cautious. XD If it seems fine and I have no quarrels with it I might just stop using the red bulb and simply turn off the UV bulb at night, then sell the double-fixture and get a singular one.

-- Believe me when I say I will happily show lots and lots of pics when I get him~
I am super excited!

[TRD]

Better to turn off light at night, no blue, no red.. reptiles can pickup on light that you as human can not see at all, mostly in UV, but some also in IR, and some very much in IR like pitvipers and most pythons (even though it's not through the eyes). All reptiles need a normal day-night cycle, just like you do.

If the room is normally dark, or it can be blinded without being disturbing for you, one could also simply adjust the day-night cycle with your own lighting. F.e. start the "day" at noon and end it at midnight. But you can only do such a thing in a totally blinded room...

PS... Rosy Boa, Fogger...? I doubt too low humidity will be a problem with these guys :) Also if your ambient is high, you will likely have enough heat of the UV bulb itself... Those guys are rather straight forward to keep.

[Dmurphy95]

Well that being said, it's a good thing I haven't actually bought the foggers yet. XD I guess I'll only buy one then for Qizil!

If that's the case I might just need to buy a second single-light fixture and use the double for Qizil, since he defintitely needs higher humidity than a Rosy Boa. He'll also be the only one getting a fogger it sounds like.

This is the main problem I see happening a lot. Lots of people say certain things about lighting/humidity while other people say other things, and it's hard to figure out what I should actually be doing.

So far though a lot have said that using a UV isn't necessary but is ok to be used. Humidity is low enough that misting shouldn't be a problem (unlike Qizil XD) and a normal day-light cycle should include literally no light at night.
I am not so much worried about humidity anymore, but i have heard that Rosy's especially are renound escape artists, and as I usually stay up later for work I am worried the little bugger will slip out without me noticing.
I suppose I am still on the fence about the nighttime lighting. X'3

[akane]

Why would you need more humidity? Do you already live in a desert? Some don't even leave a water bowl in to keep it low enough. Mine was probably 20% plus an incandescent bulb all winter and that's one species that didn't even cross my mind when setting up humidifiers near others. They come out of deserts and some quite harsh interior deserts. You'll be suffering sore throats yourself before you dry out a rosy with constant water access and shedding is still usually the least eventful of anything I have. I'd definitely not put on a fogger. They are known to get respiratory issues easy if there is frequent extra moisture in the air. At most get a wider water dish and put it under the light for more natural evaporation and wet instead of overall mist a part of the tank once a day during low humidity parts of the year or with signs of shedding. I will spray a rock which evaporates into the air for a rapid but temporary increase on the warm end and sometimes the back wall of the tank usually in evening. My cleanup critters need a chance at moisture besides bowls and the "rain" with subsequent slight decrease in temp often triggers activity and hunting desire in desert species. That's when prey would most be out. My wild caught was so disappointed nothing happens and often stakes out the water bowl when hungry. It's amusing to watch the careful stalking of a dead mouse no matter how many times it's always dead.

[Dmurphy95]

Nah I was mostly talking about Qizil in that regard, not my Rosy.
My apologies, I didn't specify that well. X'D

I am mainly worriedad about humidity for the Rosy simply because humidity at my house drops down really quick, and it likes to sit at around 40% as far as I've seen.
That's considered too low for Qizil, my Red-Tailed Boa, but so far I only know that Rosy's need "low" humidity, and am speculating that means around 40?
It's frustratingly hard to find more exact percentages for these guys!

[dannybgoode]

For my boa I find humidity is controlled just fine using a decent substrate. In the case of my boa it's predominantly coco coir but with some top soil and a little orchid bark. I'd say 70% coco, 20% soil and 10% orchid bark. 70% or so is perfect for a Boa imperator.

Heating is by a 150W che, there's a 20W if tube in there as well which generates a fair amount of heat as well.

A good spray of the substrate every 2-3 days holds the humidity at 70%+.

A note re foggers - one that just makes a must effect on the air actually does very little for humidity. To get the humidity up that means keeping the substrate moist. A nice layer of hydroballs underneath the substrate that are good and wet coupled with a rain system - MistKing is pretty much the best solution by far would work well but then in an unplanted Viv just a good spray of the substrate with a plant sprayer is usually sufficient.

When I set the reptile room up I'm going for a full MistKing set up as it will run multiple vivs and as mine will predominantly be planted this means the plants will stay nice and watered.

Just to reiterate when you 'mist' a viv, mist the substrate not the air to bump humidity up. Also be cautious what you are measuring humidity with. Those stick on dials are pretty useless. I use a digital hygrometer in all my vivs. Not cheap but I am more confident in what they're telling me.

[Dmurphy95]

Thanks for the reply and imput!

Yea i don't trust my stick-on dials so I ordered digital probe double-meters for Humidity and temps. I can definitely get it up in the 60%-70% range but it doesn't stay there for long, hence the constant need for misting.
I do understand the "spray the substrate not the air" thing, I think it is mainly just that it dries up pretty fast and then humidity plummets.

-- Oh, hydro balls? I have only barely heard of them. I want to switch from spraying Qizil often because he really is not a fan of getting sprayed. XD He always arches away and gives me the stink-eye when I have to spray him, hehe! So I want an alternative so I can annoy him SLIGHTLY less with my shenanigans.
Would you reccomend the Hydro Balls over any foggers/misters? I am not too worried about money, I am mostly just worried about practicality and which you would reccomend better.

[TRD]

I am mainly worriedad about humidity for the Rosy simply because humidity at my house drops down really quick, and it likes to sit at around 40% as far as I've seen.
That's considered too low for Qizil, my Red-Tailed Boa, but so far I only know that Rosy's need "low" humidity, and am speculating that means around 40?
It's frustratingly hard to find more exact percentages for these guys!

Not sure how technical I can get with you, but 40% humidity doesn't tell me anything. Relative Humidity is called relative because it relates to the amount of water held in the air at the current temperature. So without knowing your ambient air temperature, it doesn't tell me a thing.. You have to look at both temperature and humidity together to make sense of it.

Example;
At 70 F a relative humidity of 60% holds just as much water in the air as 34% relative humidity at 88 F

This is why you get radically different humidity readings in your enclosure depending on where you place your meter (close or far from the heat source), while it's a confined space. Closer to the heat source the air is warmer, and as a result can hold more moisture. It's relative humidity has dropped.

At 100% relative humidity you have reached the so called dew point at the current temperature, which means the air can't hold more water and it starts to deposit it on the colder surfaces (usually the glass and plants) as little drips.

Hope this makes sense.

As for the Rosy, you can keep it safely at the humidity typically found in homes. There's no need to supply it any supplements, it's far more likely to make it too moist for it, than not moist enough.

[Dmurphy95]

I simply wanted an estamation, since no-one ever gave percentages. They literally just said it had to be "low" and I had no clue if that meant "50%" low, "30%" low or what.

From what I can tell for the Rosy it will likely be fine with only light periodic mistings, especially since I plan to use Eco Earth coco fiber bedding. A lot of other Rosy Owners I've seen use it and their Rosy's are just fine.

I know that right now Ambient air temps are staying around the 70's right now since Spring is starting and it's finally warm around here. X'D So I am pretty sure that letting it sit at 40 and only giving a light misting when it's shedding time will be perfectly fine.

What Qizil sits at for Humidity and temps now has been doing him just fine, so I won't change that. I was mostly worried about making sure I would know what i need to make the Rosy comfortable when it comes here.

Again, thanks for the reply!

[dannybgoode]

Hydro balls sit under the substrate, you essentially fill them with water. They're made of clay and retain water rather well. Then a layer of water permable material then the substrate. The keeps the substrate moist from below. You need to ensure the Viv is water tight of course!

Spraying the air does nothing for humidity - honestly nothing. You need to keep the substrate damp and hydro balls help with this as does sampling down the substrate as would a rain system of some description.

It also depends what substrate you're using. What is in Qizil's viv?

[Dmurphy95]

Ah right. X'D That is why I make sure when I spray it down I get the substrate and everything else like the walls! Spraying it makes the humidity go up REAL fast, but again...It just doesn't stay there. X'D

Right now he is on Aspen, but when I switch his cage once the new one is built I'll be using Eco Earth coco fiber bedding-- I'll be using this substrate for both Qizil and my Rosy when it gets here.

[dannybgoode]

Aspen is pretty terrible for holding humidity and doesn't react well to constant damping down-tends to rot.

A coco coir (eco earth) based substrate will be much much better. The aspen is your issue here.

[Dmurphy95]

I was beginning to think this, yes. X'D
Thankfully though this giant toothy noodle won't have to wait too long for his new cage + the new substrate will work wonders.
I can deal with spraying him down a few times a day to keep the humidity up until Dad gets his cage built. I just hope Qizil himself can. XD

I've pretty much covered all my bases now, so thank you all for your imput!
Now I'm just gonna have to keep on my Dad to make sure he ACTUALLY gets it built. Qizil can't wait any longer honestly, and neither can I. XD

[TRD]

@dannybgoode;
So for test I have put a UVB light above my MBK, With about 30 min he was laying under it... Now I need to get a UVI meter to actually see if I got the gradient right in the first go (doubt it, but I have to project UVB through a thick-ish metal mesh, so it's hard to guess without meter). In any case, the snake seems to seek it out and spend time under it. Didn't really expect that to happen, but it did.

Also found a nice research article, which covers UV exposure requirements of reptiles in captivity using different UVB sources and covers quite some species...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292983157_How_much_UV-B_does_my_reptile_need_The_UV-Tool_a_guide_to_the_selection_of_UV_lighting_for_r eptiles_and_amphibians_in_captivity_Journal_of_Zoo _and_Aquarium_Research_41_42_-_63_httpwwwjzarorgjzararticl

[jjhill001]

I use the 5.0 UVB exo terra bulbs. They don't produce much relevant heat. But the natural light color just makes my snakes look so damn good. I any benefit my snakes get from it is great but I find that my entirely selfish reasoning to be a good enough reason to offer it to most snakes especially if set up in naturalistic enclosures.

[dannybgoode]

@dannybgoode;
So for test I have put a UVB light above my MBK, With about 30 min he was laying under it... Now I need to get a UVI meter to actually see if I got the gradient right in the first go (doubt it, but I have to project UVB through a thick-ish metal mesh, so it's hard to guess without meter). In any case, the snake seems to seek it out and spend time under it. Didn't really expect that to happen, but it did.

Also found a nice research article, which covers UV exposure requirements of reptiles in captivity using different UVB sources and covers quite some species...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292983157_How_much_UV-B_does_my_reptile_need_The_UV-Tool_a_guide_to_the_selection_of_UV_lighting_for_r eptiles_and_amphibians_in_captivity_Journal_of_Zoo _and_Aquarium_Research_41_42_-_63_httpwwwjzarorgjzararticl

Its astonishing a snake's response when offered it. I've seen meant examples of royals basking, boas, carpets love it as do most of the Australian species (unsurprising really given their climate) etc.

Thanks for the paper too. I'll have a read. I have access via a Facebook group to hundreds of papers on various aspects of husbandry and wading through them takes time! I'll link to some of them when I've got this house move out of the way...

[TRD]

I use the 5.0 UVB exo terra bulbs. They don't produce much relevant heat. But the natural light color just makes my snakes look so damn good. I any benefit my snakes get from it is great but I find that my entirely selfish reasoning to be a good enough reason to offer it to most snakes especially if set up in naturalistic enclosures.

Well I'm all for natural light, but UV light output doesn't strike me one bit as natural. It's very blue-ish in color temperature.

Besides I have LEDs, so I hardly see if the UV is on or not. People say that the T5HO lights are bright, they really aren't... maybe 1000 lm or so for a 55cm bulb, that's not bright :) It may be bright from the snake's perspective though, given that it emits a bulk of UVA as well. Not sure.

[dannybgoode]

@dannybgoode;
So for test I have put a UVB light above my MBK, With about 30 min he was laying under it... Now I need to get a UVI meter to actually see if I got the gradient right in the first go (doubt it, but I have to project UVB through a thick-ish metal mesh, so it's hard to guess without meter). In any case, the snake seems to seek it out and spend time under it. Didn't really expect that to happen, but it did.

Also found a nice research article, which covers UV exposure requirements of reptiles in captivity using different UVB sources and covers quite some species...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292983157_How_much_UV-B_does_my_reptile_need_The_UV-Tool_a_guide_to_the_selection_of_UV_lighting_for_r eptiles_and_amphibians_in_captivity_Journal_of_Zoo _and_Aquarium_Research_41_42_-_63_httpwwwjzarorgjzararticl

I use that paper all the time when researching for new enclosures. Its a fantastic resource.

Fran Baines is a member of my goto Facebook group also-her research in this area is world leading and its great to hear her thoughts first hand from time to time on various species and their requirements.

[TRD]

Yes it's a good paper, though she's very clear that is by no means suppose to be taken as fact and the data may be based on single cases. Best case it is a guideline/starting point for your own experimentation. Getula sp. is not covered by the paper, though all snakes seem to be in the 1.0 UVI zone. I don't think a snake from the NW Mexico area would be bothered by higher UVI given enough hides and shades are available (half the vivarium get's UV, the other half doesn't). I doubt I provide 1.0 UVI, probably around 2.0 or just over. Also, it's a fully black snake...

PS. My MBK is using the UV fully, all day laying under it partially covered by a bushy plant, sleeping. This is pretty fantastic. Thanks for bringing it up driving me to start reading up on the subject again.

[dannybgoode]

Funnily enough the group were discussing Getula sp. yesterday. This is what Fran had to offer by way of advice:

Jessie, is that a T8 (1" diameter) tube or a T5-HO slim tube in your viv?
These tubes only lose, on average, 30 - 40% of their output over a full year of use, so that tube is probably still emitting a good amount of UV but it depends a lot on whether it's a T8 or T5-HO..
If it is a regular T8 tube then fitted with a reflector, at 12" distance, with a mesh cover over it, it's a good choice. You should get about UVI 1 - 1.5 at 12" distance from an Arcadia T8 D3+12%UVB or an Arcadia Euro Range 10%+ UVB, with a reflector and mesh cover, which I would consider ideal for an occasionally-basking, shade-dwelling or crepuscular species for daytime use. :) I would try to get the areas illuminated by the basking lamp and UV lamp to overlap more, though. Ideally they need to be absorbing UVB while they bask, for best effect.
If it is a T5-HO then I would be concerned about using a 12%UVB Arcadia T5-HO lamp in a reflective fixture at a distance of only 12" over a shade-dwelling species. The T5-HO is a far more powerful UV source and I wouldn't use a 12% T5 with a shade-dweller. I would replace it with a 6% T5.

[TRD]

Thanks.

I have a 6% Arcadia T5HO at 28-30cm distance through a mesh cover with a reflector, so that seems about right. I may get a UVI meter eventually, but the decent ones are costly. Also MBK coming from area's that reach pretty insane UVIs for a large portion of the year, I'm not too worried. Snakes from these area's are pretty heavy on melanin for a reason.

[dannybgoode]

I'm thinking of a uvi meter also as I am redoing all my enclosures when I move house and uvi will be a factor in the arrangement of the features.

Do check out the Advancing Herpetilogical Husbandry Group on Facebook of your on there...