Should giant pythons be kept in captivity?

[Zoe]

Hi,
I am writing an article for school about the keeping of giant pythons by the general public. I'd like to know what you all think about it, and if you would perhaps write your opinion that would be great. If you would permit me to use your opinion in my text, please say so and include you name and years of experience working with herps and/or giant pythons.

So I guess I'd like to know if you think anyone should be allowed to, only those over 18 (or 19 or 21 or the legal age bla bla bla), only by permit, only by zoos and education centres, or not at all. Also, any defining experiences or elaborated opinions are very welcome!

Thanks!
Zoe

[ReptileX]

It would definatly depend on the indevidual(maturity level) you have too have a good head on your shoulders when dealing with giant snakes... no one should be parading them around main streets like a dog or somthing like that. so if you keep them properaly not feeding the neighbors dog and such i think it should be fine for anyone to keep them. and it shouldn't be of any others concern either...and they don't have enough education centers now! so thats why people find it concerning..I don't think anyone below the age of 14 or even maybe 15 should have a giant snake like a burm or a retic but anthing else below 8-9 feet i believe is ok...I only got my first snake 3 years ago and i have 3 now, and i see nothing wrong with keeping snakes as long as you take responsabilty of it!! If you wanna use anything i said feel free, it just my opinion

Ryan ~~~

[Andy_G]

It depends greatly on the maturity of the individual person who wants to own one, as Ryan said. I think they must be experienced with some type of boid and should do thorough research on the animal because big snakes require a lot of carefulness and space. It is a very large step going from a small snake to a large one, one that I am not ready to take because of their space requirements.They need to know the potential adult age of the animal and need to recognize that the animal may grow around 100 times the length it was as a baby.

My name is Andrew and I have been keeping snakes for about 7 years now. You may use anything I type.

[ReptiZone]

I think Reptile X has good point ppl under 18 I say should not consider large snakles not because the kids cant be trusted it is the parents if the kids lie to there parents about how big it gets just to get it. Sooner or later they will find out and what do they do then the kid has no say in it no mater how bad he loves his burm or retic, even if the parents do know haw big it gets hearing a size and actualy seeing it is two difret things. I do belive that they should be availabule whan the proper experience is acquired.:cool:

Chondro Python

[ReptiZone]

I have ben working with reptiles fore 5 years now and hve studied them for 10 (mom dident want me to have one) so seteld with some good books. you may yuose any thing you see fit in any of my post hear on snakes.com have fun

[The_Snake_King]

By the private individual?
Or by an institution ?

[ReptileX]

now that i think of it, and read whats above i strongly sugest that anyone who is going for a burm should own one other boid first just to get at least the basics down, cause as we all know reading and actually going threw with this are different...so maybe age doesn't matter but maybe there should be a kinda prerequisit....(by the way i have terrible spelling hehe )

[FireSerpent]

I am very torn on the idea because one of my main snake obsessions is burms and retics, but i really feel that animals that large should never be owned by someone that isn't willing to devote an entire room to them! These creatures deserve the greatest respect and understanding, and as ReptileX commented; you shouldn't own one unless you have a great deal of experience with larger snakes first. The sad thing is that a lot of people that purchase a large snake don't understand that and end up eventually giving them away or putting them down :(

[RachelS.]

I think if the individual has the maturity level and experience (like most have already said) they can keep one of these large snakes, like a burm or retic. By experience, I mean, they should have at least handled a few of these snakes over 13 feet in length if not longer, and have kept snakes in general for over 5 or 6 years. They should also know what they're doing about college and where the snake will go if they can't take care of it when they leave. I wouldn't ever buy a snake I knew I had to get rid of when I went to college. It would crush my heart not knowing who the person was and what would happen to the snake itself. I don't know about you guys, but I feel an extreme love for these animals just like I do my family.
In my opinion, the best age level for keeping a large boid would be 18 and over because by that time that person has settled and knows what they want to do with their life, and they should also have a place themselves... not still living with their parents. If they have a stable job, too, then I think they should go for it and get that large animal. But they also need backup of at 3 more inividuals when cleaning or even feeding the snake.
I, myself, am 14 years old and do have a burm. But I had been keeping reptiles for about 9 years and snakes for about 6 or 7 before getting one. I had been researching on retics and burms for about 2 years and also handled a few large ones myself. By this time last year I knew I was ready! I didn't only just take the advice that was given to me, but I did what I had to to get the experience I needed. To tell you the honest truth, I would've never gotten a burmese python if I didn't have that many years of keeping snakes and reptiles or taken the time to gain that experience.
I honestly think "kids" are not capable of taking care of one of these. I really shouldn't be saying that, though, because I'm a kid, but those who know me would agree that I know what I'm doing and chose the right path... went the way I needed to get a large boid.
I want to say one last note on this... If you want a large snake and have been keeping snakes for about 2 years get something like a suriname redtail boa. They get about 9-12 feet long depending on sex and have a pretty large girth. Plus, they are extremely strong!! Extremely! Have you felt the muscle on one of these? Damn, they're tight! If you don't have the money to get one of those, I strongly suggest a columbian boa constrictor. They are much more gentle and not as nippy and flighty as the true redtails. BTW, I think if you don't have the money for a suri then you definately DON'T have enough for a burm or retic because they cost a lot of $$$ for just food and matainence (sp?)! Also, think about the crap those things dump!! My girl is only 6 1/2 feet long and lays crap larger than my brother's cocker spaniel's!! And it stinks to high heavens!! lol
Just remember to think before getting one of these, and think about what I said.

Just my 0.02 :)

[BoidKeeper]

Only by permit. Permits could be isused based on age and experience. You can use this if you want to. I've been keeping herps off and on for 13 years.
Trevor

[marisa]

I totally agree. By permit...if you are 13 years old or 73 years old...you want the large snake bad enough then you should have no problems getting a permit to say you are legally able and allowed to do so.

It should be a privledge not a right to own such a large creature. As should the permit. It should feel like a good thing to get, not a burden.

Marisa

Oh wanted to add: Not everyone can keep a tiger. You can get in legal trouble if you don't do things right. There is a reason for this. And the people who really want them and are commited to the care of them get the required permit to keep the animal they love.

[The_Snake_King]

Look people I may have overstated the "kid" thing. Am by no means am I saying that young adults shouldn't be able to have a burm or retic. It is just, I see over and over again yougsters like snakemann87, who just started keeping snakes, getting a burm. A Burmese python is not a beginners snake. He started with corn snakes, then onto a ball python and a boa. This is the path taken by many of us. But what we have learned through ecperience, they have yet to.
They can benefit from our experience by asking questions, listening to and abiding by our advice. We know what it taeks to care for these snakes. Having a corn snake or ball python for a year or so, doesn't give anyone the experience necessary to care for a giant snake. We advise that a person wanting to get one of these giant snakes, learn everything they can, find a person who has one and work with that snake for a year or so. But, unfortunately, most just go out and buy one without any of the above be even taken into consideration.

[BoidKeeper]

It is just, I see over and over again yougsters like snakemann87, who just started keeping snakes, getting a burm.

What gives you the right to use him or any other member of this forum as an example to make you case. I'm sorry but I find what you did to be very irresponsible.
Trevor

[marisa]

I took that qoute to mean that he was complimenting him on getting other snakes before a burm first. ???????? haha maybe i read it wrong.

Marisa

[The_Snake_King]

What gives me the right?
I'll tell you what gives me the right!
He came to me and asked for my advice and then went and did exactly what me, and others, told him not to do.
Then he comes in here spouting off advice, given to him by myself and others, as his own.

If anyone is irresponsible, it is his parents for allowing him to get this type of snake. I can almost gaurantee they have no idea that it can get over 20 feet long and wiegh in at over 200lbs.

[BoidKeeper]

Nope,

Your opinions of him or his parents do not give you the grounds to use him/his name so openly as an example to illustrate your point. That sort of singling out is what brings bad blood and negativity to these types of sites. May I suggest that in the future you find a more articulate means of illustrating your points with out bleatingly signalling out the forums members.
Trevor

[The_Snake_King]

I do not appreciate my posts being deleted.

I did not say anything that was offensive at all. I stated the fact plain and simple. I don't know how you do it in Canada, but here in America we have freedom of speech. We are allowed to voice our opinions freely and openly without fear of reciprication.

I was asked a question and I answered it. No need to delte my post and not the post of the person asking the question. THe question was more a flame than my answer.

[marisa]

Actually bringing up a personal issue about someone and including their handle is a violation of many terms of service on the internet, and while it may not be on this forum it is on plenty of AMERICAN sites. And its usually reserved for posting on sites such as a BOI. So its generally assumed that its rude and uncalled for all aorund the internet.

It has nothing to do with being in Canada...although making assumptions like that probably has much to do with being American.

Marisa
p.s. I am American BTW before anyone jumps on me for "bashing" the states. LOL :)

[marisa]

:)

[ReptiZone]

all I can say is that jeff just finished ASKING politly that any old disagreaments fron other sites should not be braught in to the snakes forum and as I see it you have 27 posts you havent ben hear verry long snakeman87 has well over 500 he has ben here a wile needles to go into how he got 500 but he has it and it dosent hapen over night you informend him the best you could and he did other wis cant cry over spild milk. The hole post thing was just to say the he was here first WITH his burm so you did not give him advice wile you were on snakes.com it was done some where but not here so lets abide by jeffs wishes plz and keep othere sites with other sites

[Corey Woods]

Marisa,

Just to clarify something you said.........I can go out tomorrow and buy a lion, tiger or any other large cat and I do not need to get a permit to do so. Some of the larger cats are appendix 1, however, some are appendix 2. I'm sure if I tried to import an appendix 2 large cat I could do it without getting any type of import/possession permit and all I would need is the CITES appendix 2 export permit from the USA.

Corey

[Pixie]

Granted Corey you're right, you can probably get a large cat fairly easily. But how long would you be able to keep it without the proper permits? Not very long as it wouldn't take long at all for neighbors or anyone to find out and report you.

The ownership of giant snakes... such a controversial subject, in my opinion anyways. I definitely feel there should be some control as to who can own such animals via permit or something of the likes.

You can't always blame people because they are young or uninformed for making a bad choice. Very often, pet stores have a big play in these situations. I've seen burms tagged as great beginner snakes, and other unbelievable stuff! It makes my blood boil!!!! ARGG! So can you blame someone who doesn't know about snakes being mislead into thinking that owning a burm is a cool thing and a fine species to have?

My biggest issue with giant snakes is that the sale of them should be somewhat controlled. You shouldn't be able to sell them to just anyone that walks off the street and has some $$$. But here's where the problem is, stores and breeders will continue to sell them without checking to see if the buyer has any clue to what they're getting into. Do they not have a responsibility as to where the animals go and to whom they go home with. Should there be a least some effort?

My reptile shop is very well reputed and has quality animals and service. They take great care of everything in their store, housing and other and give great advice and help to their customers. Of course, they sell giant snakes too so one day I did a test. When an employe was there that didn't know me, I played dumb and looked interested in the retics they had. I purposely asked 3 dumb questions to see if they would correct my knowledge and how they would deal with an ignorant customer that wanted an inapropriate snake. Of course, I could have walked out of there in 3 min. with the snake. As soon as I mentionned I might be interested in taking it, I was offered a special!!! I was shocked and quite upset but it didn't completely surprise me either. $$$ does come first now... The worst part is that I'm a really small person, 4'9" 95lbs, can you imagine me with a retic or a burm??? I would be a meal in a few years!!!

Anyways, all this to say that I feel that the people who sell giant snakes should have a responsibility in knowing where their animals are going. They know the situation with giant snakes and that most don't make it to adulthood but they still breed and sell these snakes just for money...

I'm in no way targeting anyone in particular, just stating my opinion. This is not a subject or "situation" that can be easily remedied.

My 2 cents,
Pixie

[marisa]

I agree. Getting a lion or tiger would take little when it comes to the purchase. But you'd be lucky to keep it for a week without someone reporting you for not having the proper permits for housing it. Esentially, even burmese pythons could just require this permit. At LEAST then some sort of verification could be made as to the owners care level even if its just a skin deep one.

Marisa

[Linds]

Aquiring a large cat is not as simple as aquiring many other animals, unless they are smuggled WC's, even still. The zoos and private breeders that produce these animals are not so quick to sell there animals to the highest bidder, and often there are handling and care courses involved before an animal is allowed to be placed. Large cats, as well as all monkeys/apes, do require permits to legally keep in Ontario (I'm sure probably all of Canada). If it was as easy as just tracking down an animal and buying it, this would be in the press frequently, as there would be alot of accidents involving them.

Zoe,
Anopther thing to take into consideration when purchasing a laerge snake, though a young person may have the means and experience at the time, their life is still relatively unstable. Someone shouldn't take on the responsibility of a large snake/lizard until they are more secure, as it may not be easy to find a place to live with such animal, or if they intend to go to school, that could interfere as well. These aren't temporary pets, you can't just get them with the intent of selling them when they are no longer convenient. As for permits, I think that if permits were put into effect, though it would weed out a lot of keepers that perhaps shouldn't keep them, a lot of people would be unfairly ruled out, based on a generalized system of approval. If you wanted to use any of that my info is as follows: Lindsay Garneau, 18 years exp.

[Xetox]

I agree with the snake king on this one, I have been dealing with reptiles for about 16 years now, I own a burm but I dont suggest anyone go buy one.....its alot different taking care a large snake than it is taking care of a ball....but people will do what people will do and people like me will rescue snakes that can no longer be handled by the owner.

You would not believe how many calls I get a year wanting me to take burm or retic cause the person that bought it can no longer care for it! All I am saying is just do ur research before you buy any exotic pet!

My name is Troy and I dont care if u use anything I say.

[Zoe]

Linds, I agree!
THAT is the main reason I think young people in general should avoid large snakes. Not because they are young and therefore stupid and irresposible, but because their lives could and will change and take any direction in the next few years.

Thanks for the input everyone! It is unfortunate it had to get a little personal, but hey, stuff happens.

Thanks again!
Zoe

Oh, The_Snake_King... if you want to make friends here I suggest you be a little more respectful to other's and their opinions, and not so quick to be offended by what people say. This is, for the most part, a very pleasent online community to be a part of. Don't change that with ignorant comments. Good luck with your posts, hope you become a good full time member!

Zoe

[ballpython5000]

my god this is an absession here at ssnakess. sorry to sound rude but the bulk of you are always condescending torwards young herpers saying that there is no way they should own a burm. i think they can and the truth is they do. some say they arent mature enough others say they dont know where they are gonna be. any of you thats over 30 make a plan for 6 months of all the things you expect to happen to you. then lets see if it worked out. many many things are gonna happen to you that you wont expect, and it does not only happen to teenagers. it happens to everyone.
i think if there is enough love for the snake then there is no way it will end up as an adoption or be thrown out. it is because people dont love their burm enough to stick through their problem and keep it. they obviously did not love it enough if they will drop it at any given moment. and im positive that adults do also do that. a burm gets too big so they dump it. they get kids so they dump it. they need room so they dump it.
you people need to cut that whole age thing out, and admit it has nothing to do with age at all. it has to do with the person.

[ballpython5000]

sorry a pet peeve that got me going :)

[Xetox]

Its ok, I just think that think that anyone no matter what age needs to do alot of thinking and alot of research before going and buying a large snake like a burm or for even that matter like a large lizard like a nile monitor......just think about what you are doing before you do it!@!!

[ballpython5000]

yes exactly! and it is normally people who are trying to be cool that get large boids with no idea about the snake. not people like snakemann, i think it is people like snakemann who have a passion for herping who continue to own those boids all their life.

[Xetox]

it does take a special person to care for them there intire life! I love mine would not trade him for anything but I also know alot of people in the local herp society that dont even want me to bring him to a show :)

[marisa]

I am sorry ballpython5000 but in your posts its seems you have totally 100% ignored what others are saying. And I qoute: "my god this is an absession here at ssnakess. sorry to sound rude but the bulk of you are always condescending torwards young herpers saying that there is no way they should own a burm"

NO ONE said this. In fact most people are saying the opposite. Are you even reading the same thread? People are saying that they agree, SOME kids are GREAT snake owners even for burms BUT because there are many irresposible ones, it should be an adults job to purchase the animal and be responsible for it.

As for you saying "any of you thats over 30 make a plan for 6 months of all the things you expect to happen to you. then lets see if it worked out. many many things are gonna happen to you that you wont expect, and it does not only happen to teenagers. it happens to everyone"

Yep but do teenagers have a house? Even the ability to buy a house? Morgtage loan? Ability to get pet insurance, or a personal loan at a bank in case of emergency? Do they have a spouse who is able to support them and their snakes if they cannot? No. And BTW I am far more stable in MY OWN HOUSE than trying to raise a burmese python in my parents house, then trying to figure out either not to go to school or else get rid of the burm, or go to college hide the burm.

Now of course you will say what about the rich kids or the kids who are welcome to stay at home until college is over? Great. Thats true. But its a VERY small percentage! No one is saying everyone who is a teen can't own a burm BUT the FACTS are that many many people (including adults) who buy one do not keep it long or care for it properly. If adults can only do it sometimes when they buy a burm then why should this enormous responsiblity be allowed for teenagers to aquire?

You yourself are making my point. You are right even adults can't do it always...which is why it would be double hard to allow teenagers to also take on this responsibility.

Marisa

[ReptileX]

well to throw a couple of more cents into the pot...i would like to say that all this is kinda makeing me wish i didn't get my burm,(still gonna keep it though) I agree mostly what Marisa is stating in that.. well i'm lucky that i do live on my own so that no one but me will make decisions for me in a case where a lot of people living at home, don't have as much freedome...i know ppl at age 23 still living at home so put age aside here....and what if this person loves there burm to death and is fully aware of the size and is able to care for it with out a doubt...and then dad or mom sezs its gotta go.what are you gonna do?? fortunatly i know a lot of ppl who have the same obsession with snakes as i do and i have people that would be willing to help me pick it up to move it when he is too big that i can't cause when a burm gets big..you do need more than one person to carry it...and that where i think age plays a little facter here or not even age but maybe size...i'm 5'7' and i know if in a cruch i am gonna need all my strenth!! so if your say 15...and your burm isn't co-operating not much you can do if your not that big...its like i saw yesterday...a rotwhiler takeing a 13 yr old for a walk :) she couldn't control it at all...when it wanted to go it was gone...lucky for her it wasn't the type to turn on her.....but to end this i would like to just say that i believe anyone can care for a burm , as long as they have the space the people there liveing with know the facs! and that they have resourses they can rely on....
Ryan

[BurmBaroness]

I'm sure there are some who are surprised that I haven't posted yet, but I have been without power. Also, if you have read any of my other posts, you know how I feel. Teenagers as a rule are 10 ft tall and bulletproof, and will listen to the advice of other, more experienced people, and then with a typical attitude, ignore that advice and do what they darn well please anyway. And what happens when they go to school, military, etc? Do their parents take care of this huge snake?? Not usually. It usually gets put down, or end up in a rescue. So don't tell me that it's immature to knock teenagers who think they are ready for a large python, cause the ones screaming "Immature" are the kinds of kids I'm talking about. I know that there are some who MAY be mature enough or responsible enough as a teenager to own a large python, but I do NOT believe they should. Yes, life changes all the time, but never more than in the years between 15-25. So stop saying that the older and more mature of us are being immature. You're the ones whose immaturity is showing.

[Andy]

Im so sick of hearing the teenagers shouldnt own large snakes song and dance. Its a pile of bull crap. I am a teenager (only for like 2 more months) but a teenager nonetheless and your posts are becoming tiresome and bothering.

[BurmBaroness]

I am not talking about ALL teenagers, just the majority of them. If you feel this is a personal attack on you, then I apologize, it is not. But I DO believe I have some valid points, and the there are lots of people who agree with me, as well as some who agree with you. I find this whole issue tiresome and bothering, as I can see the burm rescue population increasing with each post.

[marisa]

Again another person who is apparently ignoring the posts or at least not reading them.

"Im so sick of hearing the teenagers shouldnt own large snakes song and dance. Its a pile of bull crap. I am a teenager (only for like 2 more months) but a teenager nonetheless and your posts are becoming tiresome and bothering."

Tell that to the people who have to pay for mistakes that both adults and teenagers make with large snakes. Tell them you feel its tiresome and bothering to read a discussion about it when they are at home caring for 10+ large snakes that people have dumped. THATS tiresome and bothering. I NEVER SAID teenagers shouldn't own the snakes. I clearly stated that a license should be made that a adult has to take resposiblitly. Sure the teen can own a burm but a co-signer or another adult should be present. There is a reason you need a license to drive a car....why? Because you have TO LEARN and its a deadly weapon when used incorrectly. JUST LIKE A LARGE PYTHON. That's a fact no matter how you look at it.

A pile of bull crap? So you are saying that all the incidents are lies? All the times both adults AND plenty of teenagers dump these animals is "bull crap" ????

Yeah o.k. everyone is wrong and lets let teens not only own 15 foot snakes, but also drink and gamble. Because hey, everything they claim that can happen is bull crap right?

Marisa

[marisa]

Also

O.k. I have your opinion "its bull crap"

Would you care to please explain to all of us what you think its ALL bull crap? I am very interested in hearing a well thought out logical answer. Makes for better discussion. Thanks...

Marisa

[ballpython5000]

im getting a burm, so what. i know i can care for it. i know i wont dump it. and i know i have thought it out.
it took me like 2 months of constant considering to finally decide. my parents know how big it will get. they know i can do it. they have my back for financial support if it needs vets.
in fact my dad had just got done watching a tv show about burms killing humans on animal planet. and yet he still said ok.
they have set certain rules for it but i can follow those.
so you gonna tell me that im immature? that i cant handle a burm? that i will dump it? go ahead i dont care. im getting a burm and it will be cared for.

[Andy]

First I wasnt replying to anything you have posted so why are you tearing apart what I have posted. Second, I am a teenager, and guess what I am very confident in the fact that I have as much experience and knowledge, and more ability to take care of a large snake that you do. Thats why it is bull crap. Dont lump people together.

[ballpython5000]

andy exactly she freaked out on me like i was aiming it straight at her

[Andy]

Seriously just as many or more burms are dumped by people that arent teenagers.

[eyespy]

I run a rescue, have over 30 years experience in herping and I still don't feel that I will ever own a giant boid. It is irresponsible of a 5'1 woman in a wheelchair who lives alone to keep any animal that is physically capable of overpowering her.

Even in my rescue, I only take in recent post-operative cases that need a lot of medical attention and just don't have the energy to wrap me. The cases I accept are animals who will be going back to their owners once the owners feel comfortable administering the necessary care.

There are many life situations that SHOULD prevent people from getting animals such as burms or carpets. A permit system might be the best solution to weeding out some of the folks who should be keeping other species instead. Even so, there will still be a problem with folks keeping them illegally.

Andy, as a side note, over 80% of the animals I am asked to take into my rescue come from owners under the age of 25. I'm not saying this to be "ageist", it's just an observation of my personal experience. Folks who own their own homes are the least likely folks to give up their animals in my experience, and there are few people in that age bracket who are able to own their own property.

[Andy]

Under 25 and teenagers are different though are they not? I can see the under the age of 25 thing. Last year I (19 at the time) got a rescue 13 ft. burm from a 50 year old women, what does that mean? Nothing really.

Some people shouldn't keep big snakes, its a responsiblity/comfortability thing, not an age thing.

[ballpython5000]

well lets put it this way, they get them as kids but dump them as adults. so it is not kids dumping them it is adults! i guess we got that going for us now. i guess maybe we teenagers should attack adults and say they should absolutly never ever own a large boid becuase they are prone to dumping them. sounds actually pretty logical.

[eyespy]

Originally posted by Andy
Under 25 and teenagers are different though are they not? I can see the under the age of 25 thing. Last year I (19 at the time) got a rescue 13 ft. burm from a 50 year old women, what does that mean? Nothing really.

Some people shouldn't keep big snakes, its a responsiblity/comfortability thing, not an age thing.

Yes, they are different but maybe not so much as you think. Most of the 24-25 year olds who are looking to rehome their snakes got them as teens. It's just that they don't grow overnight and they could managed them when the snakes were smaller. And far more 18-19 year olds are trying to rehome their snakes at my rescue as they enter college and find they cannot afford off-campus housing.

[ReptiZone]

the way I see it is that a burm is freeking big snake that not all should have the privalege of owning. But still some are good enouf to pull it off an old friend of mine is 25 and owns a zoo he had a burm at like 9-10 but he had a responsible dad that gave him a hand to do the things that are nessasary to it's survival.
most cases I see of dumping burms is a kid verry dedicated to his/her animals but think the kid dosen't make the house hold decisions the parents do, so when they they say you can have it (knowing how big it is going to be) then when moving time comes around and the land lord says no and they realise that they can't find a home because of thire large snake. they dump it. and the kid is crying in his/her room because they feal so bad about it.

so you see it is not always the teens fault( granted sometimes it is) but not always. So we should not stereo type them they may have a verry valid reason for thire actions. Maybe they wanted to start a zoo later a wanted to have amsing animale from the get go but not a bunch from a rescue cause I dont normaly buy adult snakes second hand why would you want some one elses problems?

any way that is my oppinion and it is probebly gona start a new debat, I hope to chane the fire into a diffrent direction
:cool: Chondro Python

[Lisa]

When you're a single individual, getting a giant snake that will require two people to handle it isn't the wisest thing to do on your own. When katey and I got our burms we had to ask ourselves "are we going to be together for the long life of the snakes?" thankfully the answer is yes. You may be able to lift a 200# snake on your own but odds are you are not going to be able to control the snake by yourself against it should it decide to strike/constrict at it's adult size.

[Jeff Hathaway]

I can't believe I just read through four pages of this... the whining almost makes the actual debate too annoying- almost:-)

Here's my opinion:

No one, regardless of age, needs to have a burm, or any other giant snake. However, some people do want them. Those who do should be required to obtain a permit to possess one. Permits should be issued based upon their experience, their understanding of what they are getting into, the resources they are able to put into husbandry, and their willingness to accept the legal responsibility of owning such an animal.

I would apply this system not only to giant snakes, but to any animal that is reasonably hazardous to human life. Venomous snakes, crocodilians, large cats, some large breeds of dog, etc.

Minors (in Canada, those under 18) are not able to accept the legal responsibility. Therefore, under my system, they would not be able to purchase giant snakes, regardless of their maturity, experience, etc. However, an informed and supportive parent could be given a permit and purchase a snake, and have the minor look after it.

Snakes could be sold by breeders, who assume the responsiblity of checking whether someone has a permit or not. Sales would have to be recorded in a logbook. Retail stores could do the same if they chose, though I suspect that most would choose not to.

Frankly, I doubt that very many owners of burmese pythons (regardless of age) have a good idea about the strength that a large specimen possesses, and how difficult it could be to control one.

I have taken in 3 burms and 7 boa constrictors over the last nine years. Only one was from a teenager. Most, however, were from people in their 20's who had acquired the snake as a teen or recently thereafter.

Someone (can't remember who) mentioned large cats and permits. Corey is quite correct about permits, and acquiring cats, or various other animals. There are no permits required in Ontario to own a tiger, or anything else except native Ontario wildlife, except for municipalities which have passed by-laws to that effect. This assumes, however, that all import laws were adhered to or WAAPRIITA could cause the owner some grief.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[marisa]

Oh mY GOD!

I stated that so clearly that I can't believe you said I am lumping people together.

Did I not say ADULTS AND TEENAGERS?

I clearly SAID SOME PEOPLE. Not ALL.

I will not participate in this thread anymore. Becaues A. You two aren't reading my posts and understanding them fully. B. Your replies are exactly the things I am saying although you aren't reading my posts and you cant seem to get that fact . C. You are TOTALLY taking my posts out of context an not understanding them and then saying "I lumped people" Which anyone who can comprhend my message can see I CLEARLY did not.

Its people who REFUSE to discuss this situation in a educated manner that are the problem.

I am done with this thread although I will participate if someone would like to actually read my posts and comprehend them properly

Marisa

[marisa]

Jeff Hathaway has undersstood what I have said and I totally agree with him.

"Minors (in Canada, those under 18) are not able to accept the legal responsibility. Therefore, under my system, they would not be able to purchase giant snakes, regardless of their maturity, experience, etc. However, an informed and supportive parent could be given a permit and purchase a snake, and have the minor look after it."

This is EXACTLY what I agree with.

Marisa

[Xetox]

No matter what we say or do is going to change the fact that anyone can get a large snake!

What we can do is do are best to teach those who want to get one, what they are getting into and hopefully that will help. I have takin my burm to alot of schools for educational purposes and there are alway at least a few students that approach me and want to know where they would be able to get one at. Thats when with my help I let them hold him and they get hands on what its like, for most thats enough for them, once I ask them are they ready to dedicate a large portion of there life to this animal, are they ready to feed a animal of this size. So far as I know only one student "as far as I know" has bought one......and this student now comes and helps me out almost every weekend and I have all faith that he will be a great owner!

All I am saying is with our help we can educate people on this!

[marisa]

Xetox....I agree with you! You are right. Even dicussing this in a civilized manner won't get anyone anywhere. All we can do is answer peoples questions and hope they don't dump their burm or make the mistake of buying one without research.

Marisa

[The_Snake_King]

What we need to do is educate the SELLERS!

If sellers refused to sell a baby giant snake to a minor or any other person unaware of the responsibilities, then the problem would be minimized.

I posted an portion of an article about responsible giant snake ownership in the other thread on this topic. And it say better than I can why this happen and what we can do to prevent it.

Education is the only way to help prevent this snakes ending up in shleters, released into the wild, or dead. So what we should be talking about here is the best way to educate a person BEFORE the purchase a giant snake.

[BurmBaroness]

I realize that this has gotten way out of hand. BP5000, you go ahead and get yourself a burm, kid. That's what you need. I agree that alot of purchase of baby burms are by sellers who are looking at the $$. Here in the US, any kid with $80 can buy a burm, and thepet stores usually don't even tell the kid how big it will be, what it will cost to feed and house, etc. The point is, it should be regulated as to who can and cannot own a large snake. I don't know that the permit option would work, as people would just buy them illegally. I may be oversensitive to this issue, seeing all the burms that come into rescues. And yes, that IS what's tiresome and bothering, to see all of these large boids with no home, dependent on the ones who rescue them to take care of them, so they won't be put down. I am with Marissa on this one, some of you are not even reading the previous posts, and wasting time and space that could better be filled with people who have pertinent information or ideas.

[Burm_Crazy]

You know what folks?.............

It isn't the people who buy the snakes that can stop this, or even those of us who are against the issue of unexperienced people getting burms. It is the store owner who sells the baby burms to anyone with $75 in their hand.

So we can educate the people who buy these til we are blue in the face, the only way to stop the numberous burms ending up in shelters/rescues is to educate the shop owners about selling to inexperienced people.

That still means that I feel that some of the people responding to this thread (and the other one i started) should not be allowed to purchase a giant snake. They are just too inexperienced and basically on a reptile buying frenzy.

[marisa]

Maybe if someone wants to buy a burmese python and they come asking for info people should start saying that they need hands on experience first. Like with hots. If you want a burm, go work with one at someones house for a couple months. Clean those HUGE piles of crap, handle that huge snake...clean its huge cage, etc.

Marisa

[ballpython5000]

marisa i thought you were done with this forum?

[marisa]

I was when it was only you replying.

And not to mention, I said THREAD not forum. But I wouldn't expect that you read my post completly.


Marisa

[Pixie]

I definitely agree with Jeff Hathaway, The Snake King, Burm Baroness, Marisa, Burm Crazy... I feel it is up to those who breed and sell these giant snakes to hold most of the responsibility of who they sell the snake to. They know what they are selling and don't care about anything else than the $$$ instead of the welfare of the animal.

They should have a permit to sell giant snakes and under specific curcumstances, i.e. checking the knowledge of the buyer, where the snake will be housed, if the future owner can provide a home for the snake until it's full grown and for it's life span, proper husbandry, etc...

In my opinion, only a select few are capable of owning and caring for a giant snake for it's entire lifetime. I had considered it for a long time but decided against it, just too much for me to handle right now.

Pixie

[ballpython5000]

i meant thread. and damn you are one rude person. lets all give each other i nice big hug!

[marisa]

haha I have no reply to that at all aside from everyone is free to feel how they want too.

lol

marisa

[The_Snake_King]

Exept you!

You aren't allow to feel in this thread :-)

[BoidKeeper]

I'VE GOT IT! Never mind a band on giants. I say its teenagers that we need to band!
I couldn't help it, everyone else was making jokes.
I'm not sure if I commented on the age issue or not so here goes. I feel that age should not play a factor, just years of experience. If a permit system was in place that granted permits based on experience then anyone regardless of age could have a giant as long as they had so many years of snake keeping under their belt. I know such programs exist in the states for keeping hots. You have to have so many hours experience working with hots in a zoo or some other controlled environment before you are aloud to keep one as a pet at home. Its like the whole re-testing seniors for their drivers license as a way to get un-safe seniors off the streets. Some people say it is discriminatory to seniors. Well if they re-test everyone every five years then all bad drivers both young and old get taken off the streets. Well I know a lot of adults that are far more immature then any teenager could ever try to be. By issuing permits based on experience both young and old incompetent keepers are restricted from owning a giant.
Trevor