Could someone please explain...

[Zoe]

The difference between a common boa, and a colombian red-tailed boa, if there is one.

Thanks!
Zoe

[rethius]

There is in fact a difference:
Well appearance is one thing: BCI (common boa) is much darker, darker tail, pretty much darker everything, there are no speckles on BCI belly, BCC belly is speckled, and the obvious presence of a RED tail!
Now BCI are found WEST of the andes, BCC (colombian redtail) are found East of the Andes (more in the Amazon)! Bcc (colombian) are fairly rare in captivity, most with a "common boa" refer to it as a redtail! other differences include scale count, dorsal bloches and all those other controversial differences.
Anyways I hope this helps a bit!
-Jeff

[Zoe]

Hi,
Colombian Red-Tailed Boas are BCIs...

[LdyDrgn]

Rethius, I have bci with very speckled bellies. This is not an indicator.

What you are hearing as the "colombian red-tailed boa" is the same as the "common boa". :)

[ballpython5000]

um i was under the impression a columbian was a bci? has there been a change that i dont know about?

[LdyDrgn]

There are Colombian bcc in existance, but are few and far between. The Colombians you see in nearly every collection are bci.

[snake_lover]

A common boa are the ones most kept in the us and other states . (BCI) Boa.C.Imperator ) a columbian red tail is acctually the same as a common boa !they are just called red tail boas because they have red tails .The bcc Is the true red tail boa.

[rethius]

Bcc colombian DO exist! But I did say they are rare!!

[Zoe]

Okay rethius, but I was asking about common colombian red-tails :]

Thanks all!
Zoe

[ReptiZone]

Now I am confused but I think I can make some sence with all this.

Boa Constrictor Constrictor family:
suriname red tail
peruvian red tail
columbian red tail (rare)
Boa Constrictor Imperator family:
common boa or columbian boa or columbian red tail boa
did I get that all right if not can you fill me in

[Zoe]

You've left out a few, such as venezuelans, hogg island boas etc, but I think those you've named are in the right category.

Zoe

[ReptiZone]

oh I thaught I typed the (and so on etc) but you got the idea

[LdyDrgn]

Hey Chondro ... if you are interested in learning about all the different localities of bci and bcc (as well as a few others such as bcl **DROOL!!!**) check out Boa Constrictor (http://www.boa-constrictors.com/)

Hermann Stoeckl is the MAN when it comes to locality specific boas. :thumbsup:

[rethius]

Hey, does anyone own venezuelan redtails (bcc) the black saddles??

[Linds]

I wrote this earlier in the pet peeve thread, as this topic is a big one of mine ;)

"I also can't stand when people label Colombians (BCI) as redtails. Two different subspecies should not share a common name IMHO, this creates serious confusion amongst other things. Not to mention it is extremely frustrating when browsing the classifieds looking for a true redtail and clicking on 100 ads titled redtail boa only to find one or two true redtails! BCI were only labelled redtails as a marketing ploy a few decades ago by dealers to make more money since they were somewhat similar in appearance and BCC fetch a higher price."

Rethius is correct, there are Colombian BCC, but usually when people refer to Colombian Redtails they are referring to BCI. As for distinguishing BCC from BCI on colour, saddle shape, etc... these are innacurate methods since, though they can be strinkingly different, they can also be very similar, the only surefire ways to distinguish one from the other are scale counts and saddle counts. Speckling is present in both species, IMHO BCI have just as much, if not more speckling than BCC do (on average).

[LdyDrgn]

I agree Linds. The only thing now is that some people are breeding their bci specifically to lower saddle counts (I won't name names :p) The only viable method now is a scale count, I think.

[havenots26]

The term "red-tail" is very misleading. True "red-tail" boas are snakes that simply have very red tails and nothing more. It does not indicate a specific taxon!! True, A majority of true "red-tails" do occur in Bcc, but they can and do occur in Bci and Bco(Boa c. ortoni). I personally don't use this term. I prefer to simply go by the locale in which the snake has originated, i.e. Suriname boa, Guyana boa and so on. If the origin of the snake is in question or cannot be verified then it is simply refered to as a "common boa" whether it Bcc or Bci. Hope this helps.

John

[Gary D.]

Not to beat this to death, but here's a few simple rules of thumb.

Firstly, the term "red-tail" is meaningless for the exact reasons previously mentioned in this thread. It was coined out of ignorance. Those of us in the know find it about as annoying as calling whales fish, or apes monkeys. Avoid using it at all costs, or risk being considered ignorant on the subject (ignorance is not stupidity, that's another story). By asking this question and reading the posts you are well on your way.
Also, Colombia the country is spelled with an "O" not a "U"
Summary: a Columbian red-tail boa IS 99.999...% of the time a common B.c.i. (see rule 6)

Second. Ask the seller a number of questions to ascertain their knowledge of the animal. If they can't answer your questions with authority and confidence don't buy from them period.

Third, anyone selling B.c.c. should know. B.c.c. are harder to breed and always more expensive.

Fourth. If it's in a pet store and not labled as a B.c.c. it isn't.

Fifth. If it's is labeled B.c.c., don't bet on it. I've seen falsely labelled animals. Referr to rule 2.

Sixth. (this is my opinion) Common boa refers to any B.c.i. of unknown heritage. Don't ever try to assume locality. This is upwards of 80% of the animals on the market.
Keep in mind even B.c.c. are often kept and bred without actual knowledge of locality. Locality is often based on appearance (which is sad, but then one might argue that there is not enough genetic variation between Guyanans or Surinams to be considdered true localities). If you are looking for a true locality animal, be prepared to spend some money or import.

Gary D.

[ballpython5000]

at the local pet shop they were selling a columbian bci for 250.00! its only about 4 feet long. but i must say it had a very bright red tail.

[Jeff Hathaway]

This debate shows nicely the problem with common names- people change them to suit different colours, patterns, personal tastes, etc.

Here's a pet trade example: I worked for a couple of years with a company that built custom aquaria (mostly saltwater) and also performed maintenance. We sold fish and inverts to our customers. A particular shrimp we would sometimes use was sold by wholesalers as a blood shrimp (most likely a Lysmata sp.) due to the dark red colour. We would resell this as a 'peppermint' shrimp because the owner thought it sounded nicer, and we could charge more. Also, our largely unknowledgeable customers wouldn't see 'peppermint' shrimp if they walked into a pet shop, so they couldn't compare the price!

I'll agree with Gary D. and havenots26 (why can't people use their real names???)- a 'red-tail' boa is simply a boa with a reddish tail, some more so than others.

Trying to classify animals simply based upon colour is often useless, as it can be quite variable. Can you imagine subspecific designations of corn snakes from different regions, never mind genetic morphs and abherrations?

I'm no expert on boa localities, where B. c. i. hails from, etc. so I'll leave that to others. However, in my opinion, virtually all of the boa constrictors kept and bred in North America have no traceable ancestry and localities are so intermingled that they have become largely irrelevant. There are exceptions, with fresh imports, a few breeders who focus on locality, and a few localities such as Hogg Island.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Xetox]

So when trying to buy a true redtail from adds what the best way to find one withoug getting ripped off?

[asphyxia]

What I do is this:

If I like what the snake looks like I get it, I know its simple but it works for me.

Regards
Brian

[rethius]

I agree with asphyxia! If you like it get it, although if you are breeding it, it's good to know what exactly it is!
-Jeff

[djnzlab]

HI,
I am very careful to only use breeders that have reccomendation's this is critical to the health of the new boa'
if its shipped without heat you may get RI. If the breeder dose'nt
care about his snakes it may have mites or worse.
Many reptile owners with time have found breeder's of fine boas that know the orgin and health of animals shipped.
all my boa's came from breeders in the states that are reccomended by boa keepers and have linage history on all their stock. And many aren't that expensive. one of my hypo pastel BCI
was only 220.00 to my door.
Doug
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid51/p2c8b84a553e35a1f08de3661bb7d108e/fc9e82d6.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid53/pd2bf8945b05b5b8f133d3b12dd7b6004/fc92560b.jpg

[Herp guy]

Ok, this is so confusing what is a bci and what is a bcc that is the question

Um, I think you guys get ripped because I saw a columbian bci for $90.00 , I got to hold it and it was not infested,in good health , and around here most breeders or serious keepers in my town have them. I know all the breeders and big-time keepers in my town so im sure they arent rare in ohio. Well, my point is you guys are RIPPED. Also i ll say it was 5 feet long. Good price if you think $220.00 to your door is good . hehehehehehe aint i got sources.

Make that 4 feet sry. I can not find logs that big nowdays where you get it?

[Linds]

A run-of-the-mill BCI specimen may be worth as low as even $75 USD (i've even seem them go occassionally as low as $60), but morph boas (hypos, etc) and above average specimens most certainly fetch a higher price. Hypos can go for up to $1000 CDN as babies up this way. Many *normal* adults will hit up into the $250 USD range, and that is far from being considered pricey. I would have no problems paying that price (or more) for an exceptionally marked/coloured baby BCI.