garter snake question

[jay's reptiles]

can garter snakes see red bulbs?

[Scubadiver59]

Reptile Lighting Information (http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Reptile-Health/Habitats-Care/Reptile-Lighting-Information/)


can garter snakes see red bulbs?

[dannybgoode]

I personally wouldn't use red light at night. Some reptiles are more susceptible to being disturbed than others by red light and it can disrupt their circadian rhythm causing stress.

I will have to see if I can find the stuff I was reading on it but I just don't take the risk.

[akane]

If you are trying for night viewing blue led is better. Blue closer mimics moonlight and for aquariums you can even get actinics specifically for this purpose but you'd want a much lower level than what is used to go through water. While reptiles can see blue better than humans what I have found talking to people and reading articles is that nocturnal behavior is far more normal and my gecko I can observe late into the night will even come out of shelter to "bask" at night in his low wattage blue bulb before moving on to eating and hunting insects in the bioactive tank. I don't see the same from the specialty red night combination night viewing heat bulb. Also, for some reason my king snake that hid pretty much constantly under a "desert" full spectrum lamp even well into the night after it was off loves this new fluorescent aquarium plant grow bulb I thought I'd test out. It's heavy in red and especially blue but balances just enough to appear dim white to humans. Actually some of the best color rendering I've seen. He comes out in the day periodically to hang out on the rock under it instead of the infrared heat bulb which is on the other end of the enclosure but probably heating the hiding area he uses. I find the strong change in behavior under this bulb interesting.

[dannybgoode]

If you are trying for night viewing blue led is better. Blue closer mimics moonlight and for aquariums you can even get actinics specifically for this purpose but you'd want a much lower level than what is used to go through water. While reptiles can see blue better than humans what I have found talking to people and reading articles is that nocturnal behavior is far more normal and my gecko I can observe late into the night will even come out of shelter to "bask" at night in his low wattage blue bulb before moving on to eating and hunting insects in the bioactive tank. I don't see the same from the specialty red night combination night viewing heat bulb. Also, for some reason my king snake that hid pretty much constantly under a "desert" full spectrum lamp even well into the night after it was off loves this new fluorescent aquarium plant grow bulb I thought I'd test out. It's heavy in red and especially blue but balances just enough to appear dim white to humans. Actually some of the best color rendering I've seen. He comes out in the day periodically to hang out on the rock under it instead of the infrared heat bulb which is on the other end of the enclosure but probably heating the hiding area he uses. I find the strong change in behavior under this bulb interesting.

Blue light is actually incredibly disturbing and doesn't mimic moonlight whatsoever. It's pure marketing ploy.

Blue light is the part of the spectrum that triggers a serotonin response and causes animals to wake up-think about all the research it to the blue light emitted from smartphone screens and how it causes people to struggle to sleep.

Moonlight is grey, not blue. Do not use blue lights for night time viewing for reptiles at least.

[jay's reptiles]

Blue light is actually incredibly disturbing and doesn't mimic moonlight whatsoever. It's pure marketing ploy.

Blue light is the part of the spectrum that triggers a serotonin response and causes animals to wake up-think about all the research it to the blue light emitted from smartphone screens and how it causes people to struggle to sleep.

Moonlight is grey, not blue. Do not use blue lights for night time viewing for reptiles at least.


could you tell what's the best light to use?

[dannybgoode]

At night? None.

During the day-whatever you prefer but bearing in mind in a garter set up the bulb will most likely need to be on a thermostat unless it is one of those kitchen unit fluorescent type bulbs or a low powered led set up.

[jay's reptiles]

At night? None.

During the day-whatever you prefer but bearing in mind in a garter set up the bulb will most likely need to be on a thermostat unless it is one of those kitchen unit fluorescent type bulbs or a low powered led set up. T

Thats actually what i'm using. Its geting the hotside of the enclosure to 86-88

its wont go higher than 88.7 in just keep going up and down when its at that point.

[RAD House]

I had black light on my garters for awhile until I switched over to a c.h.e. and it had no affect on their sleep patterns. It seems to me the black light is the recommended night time bulb, but they burn out fairly quickly. Also why waste energy on light when you are trying to produce heat?

[jay's reptiles]

I had black light on my garters for awhile until I switched over to a c.h.e. and it had no affect on their sleep patterns. It seems to me the black light is the recommended night time bulb, but they burn out fairly quickly. Also why waste energy on light when you are trying to produce heat?

Che are awesome. i plan on useing one in my adult retic enclosure.

[dannybgoode]

I had black light on my garters for awhile until I switched over to a c.h.e. and it had no affect on their sleep patterns. It seems to me the black light is the recommended night time bulb, but they burn out fairly quickly. Also why waste energy on light when you are trying to produce heat?

Two issues with black lights. First stress in reptiles, sleep patterns etc are very hard to observe for the hobbiest so a study of research papers is needed. I have done this to some extent and spoken to and heard others raise similar questions about night lighting with Fran Baines-one of Europe if not the world's leading scientists on reptiles and lighting.

The other issue is the wavelength complement of black lights and without testing you just don't know.

UV-A and UV-B are ok. UV-C can make a snake blind. In be of the arguments against uv for snakes full stop is that it can damage their eyesight however research by Fran and her colleagues proved the early uv bulbs emitted strong uv-c and this was the issue.

The only brand I use for uv is Arcadia but I would trust Zoo-med also as Fran's testing show these to be the safest most reliable brands.

For snacks heating I use CHE's, for the lizard visible light basking bulb that simply switches off at night-he doesn't need night time hearing so it's nice and easy.

[jay's reptiles]

Two issues with black lights. First stress in reptiles, sleep patterns etc are very hard to observe for the hobbiest so a study of research papers is needed. I have done this to some extent and spoken to and heard others raise similar questions about night lighting with Fran Baines-one of Europe if not the world's leading scientists on reptiles and lighting.

The other issue is the wavelength complement of black lights and without testing you just don't know.

UV-A and UV-B are ok. UV-C can make a snake blind. In be of the arguments against uv for snakes full stop is that it can damage their eyesight however research by Fran and her colleagues proved the early uv bulbs emitted strong uv-c and this was the issue.

The only brand I use for uv is Arcadia but I would trust Zoo-med also as Fran's testing show these to be the safest most reliable brands.

For snacks heating I use CHE's, for the lizard visible light basking bulb that simply switches off at night-he doesn't need night time hearing so it's nice and easy.


My garter snake get a basking spot of 88 during the day. when i turn this off at night. drops to 80-81 degrees. there is no other heat source for the garter other than it stay 80-81 degrees is that okay as a night time drop.

[akane]

I'm going off what people have found watching their animals and researching. Not what is advertised on the lights. The crested gecko group in particular discussed that blue light seems to bother geckos less than any other spectrum. As well as the crested gecko sitting next to me under a blue light. Most of my nocturnal snakes will also come out under blue light or even dim light that isn't full blue but heavier in blue while not red or dim full spectrum white light. Their behavior has not been seen to be as altered under low blue light as other light if you want to view them at night and what's the point if you never get to view them. Some of my geckos and snakes seem to purposefully seek out sitting under the blue light in the early night. I do often turn off some of the brighter bulbs completely when I go to bed but that might be 5am.

[dannybgoode]

I'm going off what people have found watching their animals and researching. Not what is advertised on the lights. The crested gecko group in particular discussed that blue light seems to bother geckos less than any other spectrum. As well as the crested gecko sitting next to me under a blue light. Most of my nocturnal snakes will also come out under blue light or even dim light that isn't full blue but heavier in blue while not red or dim full spectrum white light. Their behavior has not been seen to be as altered under low blue light as other light if you want to view them at night and what's the point if you never get to view them. Some of my geckos and snakes seem to purposefully seek out sitting under the blue light in the early night. I do often turn off some of the brighter bulbs completely when I go to bed but that might be 5am.

Thing is geckos are crespular not nocturnal so the blue light is making them think it's dusk for far longer than it is if they are active throughout the night. The 'fact' they are nocturnal is incorrect.

They should be active dawn and primarily dusk and not any later.

I keep my reptiles as naturally as possible and don't light at night for my convenience or viewing pleasure. They do not need night light whatsoever.

Similarly a nocturnal snake will come out without blue light just fine and again blue light does disturb their cicardian rhythm.

One of the main issues with this hobby is there is so much old and outdated information that just gets passed down and down and the longer it is around the less it gets challenged even when there is current research proving it to be wrong.

With regards to red light some reptiles are more bothered by it than others. Royal pythons seem in troubled by it, lizards in particular with their very sensitive light sensing abilities more so as are other species of snake.

I am happy to post some papers up if people are interestex.

[RAD House]

With the claims being made, I think that would be a good idea.

[dannybgoode]

The claim is that blue light at night is disruptive to reptiles, disturbing their cicardian rhythm. Blue light is what triggers serotonin release and makes animals believe it is daytime. Further there is little to no blue light in the night time light spectrum other than that from artificial sources ie a reptile in the wild would not encounter any significant amount of blue light at night.

Further that red light is disturbing to some reptiles but perhaps not others depending on their sensitivity to light.

Therefore, to be sure that reptiles are not disturbed or disrupted at night no light source should be used at night.

Edit: I should say my claim is...

[RAD House]

Also that black Light is disruptive as well.

[dannybgoode]

Also that black Light is disruptive as well.

No, without knowing the uv-c output black light may be outright harmful but that would be bulb specific.

That said as black light has elements of blue light as well then yes it may be disruptive also.

[RAD House]

Ok I get your claims now, can we have a look at your sources?

[dannybgoode]

Yep-I'll happily dig them out. May take me day or so...