Back Into Snakes (Arboreal)

[Jocarp]

Hey everyone! So this is actually a sad post, I just lost my panther chameleon last week. He developed a bacterial infection that caused him to lose his sight (vet thought bad feeders were carrying the bacteria). I managed to keep him going for 6 months with hand feeding (as in literally putting bugs into his mouth since he couldn't see to shoot his food any more and giving him showers quite frequently so he could hydrate).

Anyway, I was in the process of building a "mansion" for Merlin but unfortunately when he got sick it was put on hold as he was the priority not the cage. So I now have a 95% completed cage that was originally meant for a strictly arboreal reptile and I was throwing around the idea of getting back into snakes (wife said she wasn't opposed which shocked me). I know a little about GTP and ATB but was curious if you all had any other suggestions. I'm not looking for a beginner snake or anything but I don't really care to have something that cannot be taken out and handled. If that's my only options then so-be-it, but hoping for other ideas. I've had BPs, BRB, tons of wild caught black rat snakes, black snakes, common water snakes, ring necks etc growing up in rural KS (basically anything I could catch growing up), Chinese Water Dragons, Crested geckos and obviously the panther chameleon. I DO KNOW that I am a LOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG ways from knowing it all, but I've owned other herps before which is why I'm not too worried about something that takes a little more care and attention.

The enclosure is 4'W x 4'T x 2'D and is set up for heat lamp, UVb 4 bulb lamp, mist system with sloped floor and drainage etc. The snake doesn't have to be strictly arboreal, but the floor is basically a thick black plastic that seals/covers the sloped 1/4" plywood floor underneath. I don't have a good way to replace the plastic if it gets cut up and don't really want to have any bedding down if I don't have to, as I think it'll clog my drain and just be a hassle on the slope.

Sorry for the long rant, let me know if you have questions, comments or suggestions.

Thanks! :)
Jordan

P.S. Sorry, I couldn't get photo size corrected on some of the other pics to get them up. The branches are screwed into the solid wood sides of the armoire enclosure and then sealed in place further with "great stuff pond and stone." The openings have screen in them now (pics are old) and I have vines to run from branch to branch to give it more usable space up in the air.

[RAD House]

I am sorry for your loss. If you are looking for something more handleable, most rat snakes would really enjoy such an enclosure. I have always though vines snakes were very interesting, but I heard they can be a pain feed anything but certain lizards. The only reason you would need bedding is to make cleaning up waste easier and to keep it from spreading. For a snake you may want to add a hide or two where the snake can completely hide away. Is there something behind the bars to the keep the animal in? I am also a little concerned that you may have a hard time providing the correct heat requirements for most snakes.

[riddick07]

Ridleyi beauty would probably do really well in that cage. My original thought was an Asian vine but not sure if you want to deal with the venomous (rear fanged) or lizard part.

[Jocarp]

There is 1/8" wire mesh on the backside of the doors and other openings (not in these picture though). It's basically very strong screen with holes small enough to keep bugs in and painted black so you can see through it well. I'll put up a pic of the screen in the morning.

Adding hides is no trouble, I can basically do anything I want with this now. True arboreal won't need hides on the ground right? I've never seen an emerald or amazon with hides, they're just camping out on branches.

As far as hot/semi hot, I'm not necessarily opposed but have ZERO experience keeping hots myself. If we are talking "hognose hot" (basically zero threat) then I'm open, but much past that and I'll probably hold off until I get deeper back into snakes. Thanks for the input you all!

A side note. One thing that worries me, even though it probably shouldnt, is the large doors closing on an animal. My chameleon basically moved at the speed of decades so I wasn't concerned except for smashing a feeder bug or two. It's just that they are solid cast iron, so pretty heavy for how they look. I guess where I'm going with that is something jittery or real fast worries me about getting caught in a door while trying to clean or not wanting to go back into the enclosure .

Cheers!

[trailblazer295]

You could go with a carpet python, would make good use of the climbing options and would be easier to handle then a GTP. I don't know much about lizards if there are any arboreal lizards that would use it.

Are you looking for display only or something you could handle?

[Jocarp]

You could go with a carpet python, would make good use of the climbing options and would be easier to handle then a GTP. I don't know much about lizards if there are any arboreal lizards that would use it.

Are you looking for display only or something you could handle?

I do like carpets as far as looks. Never reallly been around them for extended periods though. They would want a hide on the ground right? Kind of semi-arboreal right?

For lizards I think there are more options, crested, tokay and flying geckos come to mind along with chameleons obviously.

Thanks for the help!

[trailblazer295]

I do like carpets as far as looks. Never reallly been around them for extended periods though. They would want a hide on the ground right? Kind of semi-arboreal right?

For lizards I think there are more options, crested, tokay and flying geckos come to mind along with chameleons obviously.

Thanks for the help!

I think it depends on the locality in terms of ground vs off the ground. As adults I don't know about hide necessity I'll let someone else chime in. My carpet hides in arboreal hides never see her on the ground. She is also still young so as an adult don't know.

Lizard wise personally mountain horned dragons look really cool and at 12" would love a cage that size.

[EL Ziggy]

I'm a little biased but I'd second the carpet python idea. They're decent sized, fun to handle and pretty easy to care for. They also make excellent display animals and would make good use of the vertical space. There's a ton of diversity within the species as well. They're definitely semi-arboreal. I have 2 carpets that prefer to perch regularly, 2 that spend almost equal time on the ground and in the trees, and 1 that's usually on the ground but does perch when she's hungry. You can't go wrong with a carpet imo. One of the beauty snakes would work nicely in there too and I believe they're a bit more active than carpets.

[Jeffco]

Philodryas Baroni? They're rear fanged but I think most people handle them.

[Jocarp]

Really appreciate the input from you all! I'm leaning towards a carpet python in light of what you all are saying. Anyone know if/which locality are more arboreal or if it's more case by case?

[EL Ziggy]

I believe it's more of an individual snake trait and any carpet you get will spend some time in the trees and some time on the ground. I have read that the smaller Jungles and IJs tend to be more arboreal than the larger Coastals or Bredli.

[Andy_G]

Sorry for your loss, that's quite a nice cage you've made.

When it comes to carpets, individuals will differ in regards to arboreal tendancies.

As far as amazon tree boas...I know of a few keepers who have hides on the floor of their cages, and they use them almost as equally as perching, but I don't know how this compares to most collections of ATB's, just figured it would be worth mentioning.

[Jocarp]

So here is a picture of that wire mesh I put in. It's all up except one door and now I need to put it over the ceiling so that he or she cannot get too close to the lights or push them out and escape! With the chameleon, there was no risk of him pushing against the lights to get out.

I've looked at a handful of Carpet pythons on sale online and really like the Jungle carpets. Really dig the yellow and black. I'm going to keep looking and make sure that the enclosure is well established with temps before getting anything. I read that young carpets can stay in a 5-10 gallon enclosure for up to a year?!? is that correct? I understand you don't want to go too big for a young snake but that seems small for that long into their life to me. Just want to make sure I give the snake exactly what it needs to thrive.

On a side note, is there any tendency for males or females to be more grumpy? May be a dumb question, but figured I'd ask. I know the "nippy" stage is more prevalent during younger life but didn't know what you all see with adults.

Also are there other morphs that will have the strong yellows as they age? I read that they will develop colors with each shed, but I haven't had a chance to find good adult pictures of each locality yet.

Thanks again everyone!

EDIT: Thanks for the input on the locals and how arboreal they are, started this post and it set for a while and then I saw your response after posting.

[RAD House]

Another species you may consider are the Dominican red mountain boas. Something beautiful and much less common.

[Jocarp]

Another species you may consider are the Dominican red mountain boas. Something beautiful and much less common.

Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't looked at those before. Wow they are beautiful! Kind of remind me of my old Brazilian Rainbow, Daisy as far as the reds. I did see prices from $500-$2,000 though! I could maybe swing for the lower end of that, but I think $3-400 would be my ideal budget. That said, I'd rather save up a little longer to get what I really want since I'll have him or her for a long time.

[RAD House]

Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't looked at those before. Wow they are beautiful! Kind of remind me of my old Brazilian Rainbow, Daisy as far as the reds. I did see prices from $500-$2,000 though! I could maybe swing for the lower end of that, but I think $3-400 would be my ideal budget. That said, I'd rather save up a little longer to get what I really want since I'll have him or her for a long time.

Yeah they can be a bit pricey, there is a forum member who breeds them his name on here is toddnbecca. You can contact him if you would like more information as I am far from an expert. I think you will not regret waiting to get something that truly interests you in the long run.

[RAD House]

Also I did find this add on kingsnake.com, they will probably only go as a pair but you never know. Kingsnake.com Classifieds: Dominican Red Mountain Boas (http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=62&de=1169843)

[Skipper7]

Try this link as well if the other is only selling in a pair. For Sale 1.0 Dominican Red Mountain Boa - FaunaClassifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605725)

[Jocarp]

You all Rock!!! Thank you for the links and the member who breeds! I did see the pair on the Kingsnake site and will probably shoot them an email to get more info. At this point I need to learn more about them and make sure I know what size enclosures I need until he or she is big enough for the one in the picture. I have zero plan to breed, it will just be a "pet" but I do really like the deep reds!!!